Semi-Final - The Hart Foundation vs. Edge and Christian

[Uncle Sam]

WrestleZone Tag Team Tournament Semi-Final #1
The Hart Foundation - Bret Hart & Jim Neidhart
vs.
Edge & Christian

The two previous tournament winners compete for a place in the semi-final. Whoever loses, Canada wins.

Conducted under generic WWE rules. You have two days to discuss before I set me up a nice little poll. For voting and that.​

 

[PEP3]

I'm confused. The heading says The Brain Busters vs. The Hart Foundation. The photo and its underlying portion says The Hart Foundation vs. Edge & Christian. Which is it?

 

[Uncle Sam]

Does it? Could be a glitch. I accidentally made a thread with the Brain Busters in the title, but the post was always correct. I can't find where it says the Brain Busters though.

It should be Edge & Christian, in case anyone is wondering.​

 

[Viola Moonlight]

Although Bret Hart is one of the greatest wrestlers ever to step foot into a wrestling ring with his partner being a very reliable big powerful person who can take over the ring for Bret to let him rest in Neidhart, I am going to vote for Edge and Christian here. These guys, no matter what the odds found a way to defeat their opponents. They went against some of the greatest tag teams of the day like the Hardys and the Dudleys in Triple Threat high-risk matches and still get the victory. Considering how dominate a team Hart Foundation is, E&C can take them to their limits and pick a spot to take the win.

Let's go for something different this year and vote Edge and Christian into the tournament Finals.

 

[Барбоса]

This is much closer than many might think. Bret may be one of the best to set foot in the ring and Neidhart was good at what he did, but Edge and Christian are none too shabby.

Forgetting singles careers and numbers of title reigns, both of these teams are worthy of getting this far in the tournament. The Harts may have the advantage in terms of years together as a team, but Edge and Christian's advantage in mic work more than makes for that.

In terms of ring work, both teams regularly stole the show - the Harts with the Bulldogs and Demolition (2/3 falls at Summerslam 1990 is still one of my favourites) and E+C with the Dudleys and Hardys on some of the biggest stages of them all.

While some have said that E+C only flourished in gimmick matches, I do not think that this should detract from their ability. Their time together (1998-2001) was a time when gimmick matches had taken over the entire industry, not just the WWF tag team division. It should also be remembered that the Foundation wrestled in many a gimmick match, whether it be 2/3 falls, battle royales or the numerous cage matches with the Bulldogs.

Also if anyone thinks that they should vote for the Harts solely on Bret's singles career, that may be opening a whole new can of worms. The combination of Edge's run as one of the top heels in the business and Christian's title recognition in two separate companies could be argued to match up to the accomplishments of Bret.

This is very close

 

[gd]

Hart Foundation win this here, no doubt. There is a reason they one this tournament last year and are considered one of the greatest tag teams of all time. Bret Hart was simply incredible in every way possible and Jim was the perfect compliment to him. They had incredible competition in the tag team division in the 80s and looked plain awesome in pink.

E&C were entertaining and did some crazy shit with ladders, but they weren't that great of a tag team. I think something like only 1 or 2 of their tag title wins came in normal 2 on 2 matches, and I couldn't see them beating the HF here, not question at all.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Edge and Christian may have found ways to defeat their opponents but they have found ways to lose to their opponents. Besides gimmick matches they were NOT an all-time great tag team and this match is gimmick-free. Neidhart was a good compliment to Hart and they beat better tag teams in the Rougeau Brothers, Demolition, and the British Bulldogs so I don't see why they can't beat Edge and Christian.

 

[X]

I'm going to have to go with Edge and Christian here. Frankly I think they're one of the greatest tag teams of all time, and I've always enjoyed their work more than the Hart Foundation. Don't get me wrong, The Hart Foundation were legends, and put on some great matches with the likes of the Bulldogs, Rockers, and just about every other tag team in the WWF at the time.

E & C are simply more impressive to me though. More successful as a tag team, dominated some of the hardest matches in WWE history in the TLC matches, and both men have gone on to several World titles, as opposed to just Bret being successful in a singles career with the Hart Foundation.

My vote goes to Edge and Christian here, definitely.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

The two things I know concerning this match that will and already has been brought up that should have no bearing are....

1. Sure Edge and Christian were great in gimmick matches but last time I checked, this particular match isn't a gimmick match and I'm not going to say it favors the Hart Foundation more because isn't one. I just think Hart and Neidhart can neutralize what E&C bring to the table.

2. Why should singles careers factor into who would win a tag team match. If that were the case then Cena & Batista would probably win the whole damn thing. If we're talking about E&C and the Hart Foundation competing right now then singles careers would be irrelevant. In their primes as tag teams, none of them won any world titles.

 

[X]

The two things I know concerning this match that will and already has been brought up that should have no bearing are....

1. Sure Edge and Christian were great in gimmick matches but last time I checked, this particular match isn't a gimmick match and I'm not going to say it favors the Hart Foundation more because isn't one. I just think Hart and Neidhart can neutralize what E&C bring to the table.

No, it's not a gimmick match, but why should their gimmick match history be irrelevant? They've won some incredibly difficult matches (like the TLC matches), which is why I brought them up. They could defeat the Hart Foundation, no doubts in my head about it.

2. Why should singles careers factor into who would win a tag team match. If that were the case then Cena & Batista would probably win the whole damn thing. If we're talking about E&C and the Hart Foundation competing right now then singles careers would be irrelevant. In their primes as tag teams, none of them won any world titles.

Okay, fine, let's not bring singles careers into discussion. Which means we're talking about late 80s, non-World title winning Bret Hart here. So all this conversation about how Bret alone wins this match, that argument can be thrown out the window.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

This, would be a LOT closer than people will think. People will look and say "Hart Foundation" without thinking of it, but honestly, this is closer to even in so many aspects. Honestly, E&C are EXACTLY the kind of cunning cheaters the Hart Foundation seemed to always loose to. You say the Harts did more for tag wrestling, but really, did they? Comparable in tag title accomplishments (I say that, knowing how different the scene was either time, and the hot potato mentality..but still they won the tag belts a fuck ton of times) and revolutionized the game, as far as gimmicks go. Since I take more than Kayfabe fantasy land matches into account, for now, ill be taking The Harts, but a fucking cunt hair.

I probably wont be able to vote anyhow, but still. Feel free to sway me.

 

[Alex]

Edge and Christian for me simply because I still haven't watched a Hart Foundation match yet, also Edge and Christian have taken on bigger guys than themselves and beat them so that takes Neidhart out, without the power advantage Hart is essentially by himself, hee's good but not that good

 

[NSL]

I'm voting for the Harts...They're simply too good, and have done too much to lose here. E&C were great, but I don't see how either of them can beat either of their opponents. Just try and spear Neidhart. Go for it. I want to see him swat you aside and break your leg for Bret to lock on the Sharpshooter.

It'll be a close match, but the Harts win it by a nose...

 

[jmt225]

Bret Hart is one of my all time favorite wrestlers, and as a singles competitor... I honestly don't believe there was ever a wrestler better than him. However, his tag run with Jim Neidhart was hardly anything special. Those two had a couple of great matches against The British Bulldogs, but outside of that... they did nothing worth noting. Their feud/matches with Demolition were okay, but nothing special, and everything else they did was mediocre at best.

Edge and Christian, on the other hand, had one of the greatest tag runs in wrestling history, as far as I'm concerned. They held as many championships, and were apart of as many 'classic' matches, as ANY tag team in the history of professional wrestling. That is simply a fact. Moreover, you could also claim they were innovators, both in the ring with their creativity and unbelievable excitement, AND on the mic with their comedy.

As far as kayfabe is concerned... seriously, what could the Hart Foundation do to Edge and Christian to keep them down for the 3 count? Bret Hart didn't use the Sharpshooter while in the Hart Foundation, so that move is irrelevant. Really... the Hart Foundation lived and died off the Hart Attack, which was really nothing more than a lariat takedown from Bret. That would never finish Edge or Christian. Never. However, both E&C have plenty of shit in their arsenal that could finish off Jim Neidhart, and they would do just that.

E&C wins here anyway you look at it. Vote for them.

 

[Theo Mays]

Holy match of greatness Batman! Two of my all time favorite tag teams squaring off in the Semi-Finals of this bad boy. I really don't know who to vote for. On one hand there is my all time favorite wrestler in Bret Hart and on the other hand there are two of my favorite superstars in modern wrestling. This match is really close and I have no idea who I'm going to grace my vote with. Right now leaning towards the Hart Foundation, but that could be easily changed.

 

[Tenta]

I'm picking the awesomeness that is Edge and Christian,Sure, Bret Hart is fantastic, and Jim Neidhart was steady, but Edge and Christian are simply too fast, and too good for the likes of a Bret Hart that wasn't even a fraction of the star he'd become, and a Jim Neidhart that really wasn't all that fantastic. Those of you expecting to find Bret Hart of the mid 90s, I'm sad to say that isn't the case here. Sure, Bret was still technically sound, but he lacked the charisma and polish we'd see in later forms of Bret.

E&C won more tag titles in a division that was far and away better than what The Harts wrestled. This is exactly what they do... Manipulate a match that otherwise looks very difficult for them (and don't get it twisted folks, this is going to be a difficult match), cheating the faces out of the match, and running to the dressing room to bask in their awesomeness. While The Hart Foundation was a solid team, Edge and Christian were legitimate draws for a main event, just as a tag team. The matches they took part in are better than anything the Foundation's done. Tell me one defining moment about The Hart Foundation's reigns. All of the ladder matches that E&C have been a part of trump anything the Hart Foundation has done in theie run as a tag team.

I'm going to sway my vote for The British Bulldogs, so Stampede Wrestling won't get shut out of these finals. Still, It's Edge and Christian moving on here.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

To address JMT's point on how can Edge and Chrisitan possibly be put down for a three-count? They have won the titles X amount times so they have lost the titles X-1 amount of times and I'm damn sure that most of those losses were by pinfall. If Edge and Christian can't be put down by your logic, then they would have been champions from the first time they've won it until 2005 when Christian left the company. Lesser teams have pinned Edge and Christian so I don't see why Hart and Neidhart can't. All you can remember about them is whenever they won a title and they lost them so quickly you barely rememeber any one of their reigns. I know I don't.

To address Tenta's point...
Sure their ladder matches have been memorable and all that but that's exactly what they were: ladder matches. I don't see how excelling at something that doesn't even factor into this match is going to give them the edge over the Hart Foundation. The Attitude Era was full of gimmicks and Edge and Christian faced mainly gimmick teams (not really counting the Dudleys) in gimmick matches. What's some of Edge and Christian's defining moments during their title reigns and I'm not talking about when they won them but between when they won them and when they lost them which was plenty of times.

Mostly the arguments I'm seeing for Edge and Christian are facts that are totally irrevelant to this particular contest (gimmick matches) or illogical statements (Edge and Christian can't be possibly put down for a three count).

 

[X]

To address JMT's point on how can Edge and Chrisitan possibly be put down for a three-count? They have won the titles X amount times so they have lost the titles X-1 amount of times and I'm damn sure that most of those losses were by pinfall.

Incorrect.

They lost their first tag titles to Too Cool after interference by Kid Rock's midget buddy Joe C. who hit Edge with a damn hockey stick, they lost their second tag titles to the Hardys in a cage match (Hardys climbed out of the cage), they lost their next tag titles by Mick Foley stripping them of the titles for dressing up as Los Conquistadores, their next tag title reign ended from pinfall when they were defeated by The Rock and The Undertaker (hardly a bad loss), wow this is getting tiring, so I'll just tell you how many pin losses they had with their tag titles. 3, and those are losses to The Rock/Undertaker, Kane/Undertaker, and The Dudley Boyz once.

That's a grand total of 3 times they were pinned for the tag titles in a fair match. Every other time was in a gimmick match or from outside interference or both. So your statement that "most of their losses were by pinfall" is incorrect.

There's no reason E/C couldn't defeat the Hart Foundation.

 

[Tenta]

To address Tenta's point...

Hi, LJL. Been a while, hasn't it?

Sure their ladder matches have been memorable and all that but that's exactly what they were: ladder matches.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but a win is still a win, no matter how it's done, right? Sure, you can argue that ladder matches have no effect here, but, like in any other contest, the better team is going to win the match, regardless of the rules involved with it. Edge and Christian have beaten both The Hardys and The Dudleys plenty of times without ladders, my boy.

I don't see how excelling at something that doesn't even factor into this match is going to give them the edge over the Hart Foundation. The Attitude Era was full of gimmicks and Edge and Christian faced mainly gimmick teams (not really counting the Dudleys) in gimmick matches.

You do realize matches happened in the Attitude Era outside of ladder matches, right? Edge and Christian have fought plenty of matches without tables, ladders, and chairs. As a matter if fact, Edge and Christian only won one of their Tag Team Championships via ladder match. All of the rest have usually come in regular tag team, triple threat tag, and fatal four tag team matches.

How about this, LJL... Let's put it this way. Edge and Christian beat The Rock and The Undertaker. Let's just say that once, we were going to put The Hart Foundation up against Hulk Hogan and The Ultimate Warrior. Not even on the flukiest of flukes would The Harts pull off that win. Simply put, not only did Edge and Christian beat the tag teams in their divisions, they'd usually beat main event wrestlers put into teams. I'm certain at another point they beat the Brothers of Destruction. The point being, while the Hart Foundation were a great team, Edge and Christian were a superstar team, capable of carrying a main event, and no one even flinching at the idea. I can't say the same for The Hart Foundation.

What's some of Edge and Christian's defining moments during their title reigns and I'm not talking about when they won them but between when they won them and when they lost them which was plenty of times.

How about the spear off the ladder at Wrestlemania 17? That perfectly defines Edge and Christian... Opportunistic, and always able to wind up one step ahead of the opponent, in the long run.

Mostly the arguments I'm seeing for Edge and Christian are facts that are totally irrevelant to this particular contest (gimmick matches) or illogical statements (Edge and Christian can't be possibly put down for a three count).

I'm not saying Edge and Christian couldn't be put down for a three count. I just don't think it's going to happen here. No frickin way.

 

[Shocky]

On the flipside, how many Tag Team Championships did the Edge and christian Connection win via pinfall? I mean, pinfall is something you have to do in this wrestling match as I don't happen to see a ladder or cage match stipulation anywhere. Most of their title wins either came from winning confusing fatal 4 way matches, Ladder matches, matches dressed as other wrestlers, or matches where Kurt Angle was the special referee, lucky for the Harts, none of that is going on in this match.

Edge and christian were a great gimmick match tag team, but other then that, incredibly mediocre if not poor in regualr wrestling matches. The Hart Foundation win this match because this match is basic wrestilng, the type where you either make your opponents submit or you pin them, something neither of which Edge or Christian could do to the Harts.

 

[Tenta]

Edge and christian were a great gimmick match tag team, but other then that, incredibly mediocre if not poor in regualr wrestling matches.

Why are people so fixated on this whole "Edge and Christian can't work a match" shit? Edge and Christian were probably two of the best workers in the WWE by this point. What exactly was so bad about their in ring work? Sure, they may have been a tad sloppy at times, but these were overall effective wrestlers in the ring, and were able to pull off many a victory due to their prowress. Sure, Bret may be able to wrestle one to the ground, but are you really going to tell me that Jim Neidhart is a better wrestler than either Edge or Christian, Shocky? I highly doubt it. And remember, it's not like we're dealing with mid 90s Bret, this is a Bret Hart that wasn't even close to the star he'd eventually become.

Again, The Hart Foundation were a great team, but Edge and Christian were a superstar team. This match definitely goes to them.

 

[Shocky]

Nothing wrong with the in ring work of Edge and Christian, but as a tag team in a stand alone wrestling match minus the gimmicks, I doubt the credibility of their win loss record (I'm speaking in Kayfabe terms as i happen to enjoy Edge and christian both as a team and individuals). I seem to remember most of their success coming in gimmick matches, again, nothign wrong with that. Edge and Christian were a product of their generation, nothing more, nothing less. If this were a gimmick match, no doubt Edge and christian move on.

My personal opinion, the era that the Hart's wrestled in was the Golden Age of tag team wrestling, Edge and Christian's the Silver Age. The Hart's are simply better at traditional tag team matches, which is what this match is. Hart may not be in his prime in this, but Edge and christian certainly weren't. In fact, the only person that was in their prime during their careers in this match would be Neidhart, and Neidhart was an excellent change of pace wrestler. Edge or Christian couldn't manage the power of Neidhart.

 

[Tenta]

My personal opinion, the era that the Hart's wrestled in was the Golden Age of tag team wrestling, Edge and Christian's the Silver Age.

Difference of opinion, I suppose. I feel Edge and Christian's is gold, while The Harts wrestled in a silvaer age. Aside from The Harts, the Bulldogs, and Brain Busters, where are these great in ring workers? Demolition beat you down, they weren't technicians. Nothing against them, that's merely their gimmick. I don't see the appeal of either The Rougeau's, The Killer Bees, or The Rockers. I really just don't view them as good teams. The Conquistadors? The only time they've ever achieved fame was when Edge and Christian pulled their gimmick out, dusted it off, and did it themselves.

The Hart's are simply better at traditional tag team matches, which is what this match is. Hart may not be in his prime in this, but Edge and christian certainly weren't.

And they were still two of the top workers at that point, as well.

In fact, the only person that was in their prime during their careers in this match would be Neidhart, and Neidhart was an excellent change of pace wrestler.

You mean slow as a sack of manuer? I'd agree with that. And of course that was Neidhart's height, because it's not like he went any further than this.

Edge or Christian couldn't manage the power of Neidhart.

Neidhart always struck me as pretty much like Albert of T&A. And no matter how strong Albert was, Edge and Christian always pulled victories off on them. Strength is not an issue. If anything, Edge and Christian have the advantage over strength (The APA, the aforementioned T&A, Right to Censor)

 

[Uncle Sam]

I hope you're all happy. Now we've got to have a triple threat final. Well, it actually did happen during the first ever WrestleZone tournament so fuck it, why not? The two tag teams that have won the tournament before move through to the final, meaning we've got a 66% chance of a repeat winner.

 

[Bilawal]

I'm torn, even thought The Hart Foundation were two of the most popular wrestlers in the WWE, I like Edge and Christian more because they're my fav wrestlers. I will go with Edge and Christian.