Semi-Final - The British Bulldogs vs. Sabu & Rob Van Dam

Discussion in '3rd Tag Team Tournament (2009)' started by Uncle Sam, Nov 9, 2009.

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  1. British Bulldogs

  2. Sabu/RVD

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  1. Uncle Sam

    Uncle Sam Rear Naked Bloke

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    WrestleZone Tag Team Tournament Semi-Final #2
    The British Bulldogs - Davey Boy Smith & The Dynamite Kid
    vs.
    Sabu & Rob Van Dam


    I think this is the first time ever than an ECW team has actually won the ECW region.

    Conducted under generic WWE rules. You have two days to discuss before I set me up a nice little poll. For voting and that.​
     
  2. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    Ok... the ECW dream is finally over. No more excuses as to why RVD and Sabu should win brackets in this tournament. No more bullshit about chairs, backflips into the crowd, or crashing through tables. They are involved in a match that has something that completely works against them and pretty much puts the final nail in the coffin of their WZ Tag Tournament run...

    RULES

    Oh my God... they're actually going to have to be involved in a *gulp* wrestling match!!

    Ok... so just for the sake of all of the fanatical RVD marks out there, I'm going to give RVD some credit for his wrestling skills in this faceoff. I'll even go as far as saying that he may be able to defeat Davey Boy Smith or Dynamite Kid individually back in their primes. But not even the great RVD can take on BOTH of the British Bulldogs by himself.

    And yes, I haven't mentioned Sabu yet. Why, you ask? Because in any match that grounds him, doesn't allow weapons, and has rules that must be followed, Sabu isn't worth a squirt of Matilda's piss.

    Conclusion: Two grounded spot-monkeys can NEVER defeat two British Bulldogs.

    Winners - British Bulldogs, without breaking a sweat.
     
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  3. X

    X RIP Sgt. Michael Paranzino / RIP CM

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    Well I guess you don't know very much about Sabu or RVD than, because both are extraordinary wrestlers. Sabu was trained specifically as a technical wrestler, so he's no slouch inside of the ring, and RVD achieved great success in the WWE, with rules as you so eloquently put. How many WWE titles does the team of Bulldog and Dynamite have?

    You guys and your ECW hatred, it's so funny. You all seem to think every ECW show was New Jack using a cheese grater on women or something, when in fact every ECW show contained atleast one if not more purely technical matches. Some of the greatest technical matches I have ever seen came out of ECW.

    He doesn't have to. He has Sabu, one of the craziest fucks to ever wrestle and who was trained in technical wrestling by his legendary uncle The Sheik.

    Spoken truly like someone who doesn't know very much about Sabu.

    I just don't get some of you guys. Some of you remind me of the kids who think Terry Funk only wrestled hardcore bloodbaths in Japan and ECW, don't you guys even bother looking into the past of these wrestlers before you vote on them?

    Now, I see no problem with voting for the Bulldogs here. Legendary team with two phenomenal workers, and I'm a huge Dynamite mark. That said, I'm going to vote for RVD/Sabu. Because they deserve my support considering how many uneducated people will come into this thread and say "Oh da spot monkeyzz cant wrestle wit da rulez lololol!"
     
  4. gd

    gd Plump, Juicy User

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    I'm going with RVD/Sabu. Much more interesting choice than BB in my opinion as they seem like the Cinderella team of this tourney. Both RVD and Sabu are high risk and high reward wrestlers and most of the time they ended up with the reward.

    The BB are a solid team, but RVDSabu were just spectacular at times. I'm still concerned with the fact that they don't have a catchy team name, but I'll let it slide here and give them my vote.
     
  5. Hyorinmaru

    Hyorinmaru Sit Upon The Frozen Heavens

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    I'm voting for RVD & Sabu for the reasons X stated and the fact that even though there are rules there is no stopping Fonzie from distracting the ref allowing RVD & Sabu to break those rules behind his back.

    Anyone who wants to vote BB go ahead i just ask you to do your research first.
     
  6. Viola Moonlight

    Viola Moonlight I'm Literally Just Here for WZCW

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    To me, these two teams are evenly matched. On one side, you have a team that went through many years together in the tag team circuit among different companies and achieved success. In essence, they have the edge as the tag team. On the other hand, you have RVD and Sabu who were one of the greatest teams that rose to fame during a place where there were no rules and anyone could do as they please if something went out the window. However, given that I have seen RVD and Sabu work wonders without these stipulations on, in essence, they have the wrestling edge.

    Even though this may be the wrong choice, I would like to see RVD/Sabu advance into the finals because I am much more of an RVD/Sabu mark than the BB. So, I am voting for RVD/Sabu because of their wrestling ability outranking BB.


    I'd just like to say that although the Fonz might be at RVD/Sabu's corner, you have Captain Lou Albano in the BB's corner... so, don't discount the ability of outside interference from both teams.
     
  7. Big Sexy

    Big Sexy Deadly Rap Cannibal

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    If you want to vote for RVD and Sabu please come up with an argument that has at least an ounce of truth. How the fuck do RVD and Sabu have more wrestling ability then the Bulldogs? Dynamite kid has more wrestling ability in one finger then Sabu has in his whole body. And RVD is good but still not up to the level of either Bulldog as far as in ring ability goes.

    I dislike the Bulldogs and think they are overrated but they should have no trouble here. RVD and Sabu should have lost to both the Steiners and to Harlem Heat. No more weapons = no more wins over great teams. If Marcus Cor Von and Kevin Thorn can beat them in a regular match, the Bulldogs should have no problem.
     
  8. NSL

    NSL Life's A Bitch, And Then You Mosh

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    With Sabu being trained by his uncle (The Sheik), and actually having a wide array of offense, I can't vote against him and RVD here. We all know RVD's skills and abilities, so I'll move on...

    Sabu was in WCW from early '95 to really early in '96. He had some success...Rarely lost a match in fact. For anyone that thinks his offense was all weapons, re-watch some stuff. A lot of the time a chair was in the ring, it rarely touched his opponent. It was merely a launching pad for him. He could use it a million different ways. Also, he doesn't need a table...Just use the announce tables. No one gets a DQ for that anymore.

    RVD and Sabu hold the edge in speed and technical ability, and can take anything Davey has as far as power. Vote for the right team...Vote RVD & Sabu.
     
  9. Big Sexy

    Big Sexy Deadly Rap Cannibal

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    The Bulldogs were trained in Stu Hart's Dungeon. What's your point?


    Oh yeah that tremendous run where he beat the likes of Disco Inferno, Alex Wright, and a jobber Jerry Lynn.

    Speed, yes. Technical ability, FUCK NO. Bret Hart said Dynamite Kid was the best pound for pound wrestler he had ever seen. Davey Boy was no slouch either. RVD and Sabu are a lot of things, but they are not great technical wrestlers.
     
  10. Uncle Sam

    Uncle Sam Rear Naked Bloke

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    As far as I can tell, Sabu executes about every one in ten moves successfully. Oh my God, he's about to do a springboar-- wait, no, he fell over again. Watch a Sabu match and put this on loop in the background:



    Honest to God, it syncs up every time. It's incredible. He's more a threat to himself than he is to anyone else. Kind of a like emos, I suppose.

    As for RVD. Yeah, he's great and all. He was high during a lot of his matches and still generally managed to successfully execute a lot of moves, so I suppose he's better than Sabu. He's also had, oooh, at least two matches that I immensely enjoyed.

    Honestly though, I really have to chalk this one up to The Bulldogs. Not only am I backing them to win the entire tournament this time, but - c'mon! - they're one of the most successful tag teams of all-time. They were a force as a team. I have to tell you how they are legen-I hope you're not lactose intolerant because the second half of that word is-dary.

    And they get mah vote.

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. jmt225

    jmt225 Global Moderator

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    Big Sexy, you're killing me, man. Don't you know RVD and Sabu are from around the Detroit area? How can you not vote for them? I know you're as big of homer as anyone on this board when it comes to your city. :icon_razz:

    Anyways, I'm voting for RVD and Sabu, obviously.

    Look, I'm as big of fan as the British Bulldogs/Hart Foundation matches as the next person, but outside of that, what did Dynamite Kid and Davey Boy Smith ever do as a tag team that was worth a damn? Nothing, that's what. Hell, their most memorable moment in WWE was Dynamite's fight with Jacques Rougeau, and that happened behind the scenes, not in front of a camera.

    RVD and Sabu, on the other hand, had PLENTY of great matches together as a team. Plenty. And it wasn't just against one team, but against half a dozen, if not more. They were a unique, bad ass tag team that entertained everyone and always left the people in the audience satisfied with the product. Every single time RVD and Sabu would team up, they would absolutely steal the show; it didn't matter who they faced, you knew you were in for something special whenever RVD and Sabu were on the card as a team. They were that awesome.

    Now, kayfabe wise.... what the fuck could Dynamite Kid and the British Bulldog do to keep the ECW versions of Sabu and RVD down for the 3 count? Oh, that's right.... absolutely nothing. Do any of you realize just how much it took to keep either one of those guys down while they were in ECW? It took a whole hell of a lot, and there's nothing in the British Bulldogs arsenal that could defeat these guys. Nothing. And while this match may be taking place under WWE rules, Davey Boy and Dynamite are still facing the ECW versions of RVD and Sabu, and those are just flat out two of the toughest motherfuckers to ever exist in the history of the sport.

    Also, the Bulldogs treated Matilda like shit behind the scenes. If you vote for the British Bulldogs, then you support dog cruelty and that makes you a terrible person. Remember that.
     
  12. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    And I totally respect that. But RVD and Sabu (during that time period) was the best tag team in ECW, but was not one of the best in the world. They had tons of competition in other promotions.

    Besides the Four Horsemen and Hart Foundation (from what I recall), the BB's were the best team in the world during their run in Stampede Wrestling and the WWF.

    They won the tag titles from the Dream Team at Wrestlemania 2, had memorable feuds with the Iron Sheik and Nikolai Volkoff (former champions), and had their ongoing feuds with the Hart Foundation (arguably the greatest tag team of all time) and produced some of the greatest pure tag team wrestling matches of the Golden Era.

    RVD and Sabu were wrestling second rate tag teams in ECW. Just because their matches had no rules or order doesn't mean the matches were tougher.

    Backflips, broken tables, moonsaults and chairs don't make matches "special". Sure, they're appealing to the naked eye. But tag team wrestling in the Golden Era was an art form. It was about teamwork and technical wrestling. There were no tables, chairs, and 450 splashes back then.

    But, in today's wrestling market, if RVD and Sabu tried their flippy moves on the BB's, they would get caught in mid air and powerslammed through the mat.

    I agree that RVD and Sabu were able to take a lickin and keep on tickin. They were tough as nails. But then again, we've never seen the Bulldogs in a hardcore environment. We're talking about two different eras of wrestling here, for cryin out loud. And something tells me that if the BB's were in a hardcore match they wouldn't be slouches.

    The biggest problem with everyone's outlook on this matchup is everyone's lack of properly comparing tag team wrestling of the Golden Era to modern day tag team wrestling. I think it's totally unfair that people say, "Well RVD and Sabu were tough because they were put through barbed wire tables and got back up." Good for them. How can you compare the Bulldogs against something that they've never even come CLOSE to doing? And not because they (kayfabe) chose not to, but because it didn't even EXIST back then?? I would compare a double-team move by the Hart Foundation from 1985 to be just as devastating as being put through a table in today's wrestling world.

    I didn't know this. Wow... this kind of upsets me. Seriously.

    No matter... the Bulldogs are still superior.
     
  13. NSL

    NSL Life's A Bitch, And Then You Mosh

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    I said the exact same thing about Storm and Credible, and they lost. So, apparently, these boards don't think the Dungeon is worth anything. By that math, being trained by a family member that happens to be the Sheik is just better.

    RVD wasn't trained at the Dungeon, and you can't deny he's the best in this ring at just about everything.
     
  14. X

    X RIP Sgt. Michael Paranzino / RIP CM

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    Well, let's not go overboard NSL. Dynamite Kid is easily the best wrestler of these four men, I mean that's not even a fucking debate. But RVD/Sabu are the better team in my opinion. I wouldn't be pissed if the Bulldogs won, but my support will continue to go to my ECW brethren.

    But yeah, last round Big Sexy you were arguing that Justin Credible was shit, and he was trained in Stu Hart's dungeon, now all of a sudden the Dungeon is credible again when it fits your argument?
     
  15. Big Sexy

    Big Sexy Deadly Rap Cannibal

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    Can you show me where I argued that because I don't recall even making a post in the Impact Players match last round. In fact I just looked it up and I haven't made any posts in any of the Impact Players matches this whole tournament.
     
  16. jmt225

    jmt225 Global Moderator

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    This was 1996/1997, the only competition was really Harlem Heat, the Smokin' Guns, Too Cool, the Headbangers, and pieces of trash like that (though Harlem Heat weren't trash). So, yeah... in my opinion RVD and Sabu were the best tag team in the World at one point in time. Well, in America, at least.

    Besides, even if you disagree, surely you can't believe the British Bulldogs were the best team in the World during their run? The Rock 'N Roll Express, Freebirds, Horsemen, Von Erics, and a few more were much better tag teams than them and all their body of work proves it.

    So, that's two teams, and I strongly disagree that those were the only two teams better than the Bulldogs at the time, but nonetheless... name two teams in 1996 who were a better team than RVD and Sabu? Please.

    Terrible match.

    Those were most definitely forgettable, not memorable.

    This, I agree with. But just because you're able to have great tag matches against one other team doesn't necessarily make you a great tag team.

    Exactly. RVD and Sabu were able to bring the best out of mediocre wrestlers, something of which the Bulldogs could never do. The Bulldogs had to be in there with GREAT tag teams to put on a great match. RVD and Sabu could be in there with ANYONE and leave the fans satisfied for purchasing their ticket to the show. After all, that's what professional wrestling is all about, right?

    And if the Bulldogs had street fights against the Nasty Boys, that doesn't mean they would be anywhere near as good as Cactus and Maxx Payne vs. the Nastys. Not just anyone can go out there and have good "hardcore" matches. RVD and Sabu could, but you best believe they could have good matches without that stuff, either.

    You cannot sit there and tell me the greatest tag match these two eyes of mine have ever witnessed, RVD & Sabu vs. Hayabusa and Jinsei Shinzaki (Hakushi in WWE), wasn't a beautiful piece of art. So, I don't buy that argument for a second, man.

    No, they would not. I never saw Dynamite catch Owen Hart in mid-air in Stampede when they had their feud, and I never saw Davey Boy catch anyone mid-air either, with maybe the exception of a super small wrestler.

    Also, you're underestimating RVD and Sabu's size, especially RVD. Back in ECW, RVD was a very muscular guy. Not just anyone could catch him, especially with how forceful he came down.

    Dynamite faced Owen in a hardcore match in Stampede. It was one of the greatest matches in the history of the company. And Davey Boy had a few no DQ matches throughout his career as well, so yes... I have seen these two in a hardcore environment, and there's still nothing they could do to defeat RVD and Sabu. Not that it matters because this isn't a hardcore match.

    Yeah, but still... the Bulldogs of the eighties would be facing RVD and Sabu of the mid-nineties. And RVD and Sabu in the mid-nineties were damn near impossible to keep down. And as far as the era it would take place in... it would take place TODAY, so obviously that's in favor of RVD and Sabu.

    Again, this match isn't a hardcore match, and if it was... RVD and Sabu would actually be getting a lot more support than they are, so be happy it isn't. ;)

    It might be "unfair", but that's how it is, when you're looking at this from a kayfabe point of view. And from a kayfabe point of view, there is just nothing in the Bulldogs' arsenal that could keep RVD or Sabu down for 3 seconds. That's simply a fact.

    Again, it's not a hardcore match, man, lol. So, I'm not assuming how the Bulldogs would fair in a hardcore environment. My argument is what could the Bulldogs possibly do to RVD and Sabu, without weapons, that could beat them?

    Yeah, but the match isn't happening in the eighties, but TODAY. That's why a lot of teams from an earlier era are at a disadvantage in this tournament if you choose to vote via kayfabe.

    I, personally, like to look at both sides of the fence, as to who was the better tag team and who would win a kayfabe match, and when I broke it all down, both answers to those questions for me were RVD and Sabu.

    Read Dynamite's book. It's not necessarily they mistreated it (though they possibly could have), more so that they neglected it. But yeah... I was exaggerating on purpose, man. Didn't mean to upset anyone.

    You're too old school for your own good, D-Man. But hey... I can't fault you for that. :)
     
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  17. Uncle Sam

    Uncle Sam Rear Naked Bloke

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    I don't care if the Bulldogs were a better tag team than The Midnight Express. What I do care about is that Sabu is a terrible, terrible wrestler. A train wreck and a car crash of a wrestler. If I drunkenly tried to take a piss into my toilet while facing the wrong way, I'd produce something with more finesse than a Sabu match.

    Comparatively, I don't see how these two teams match up. Yeah, these guys wrestled those guys and those guys wrestled these guys and so and so forth, but look at the two next to each other.

    That's all I got right now. Kinda ran out of steam.
     
  18. Milkyway!

    Milkyway! Hodor!

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    Xfear is certainly going to kill me, I'm 100% positive. But theres no chance in heck I'm voting for Sabu and Rob Van Dam. Why you ask? Simple. The British Bulldogs are probably the greatest tag team ever. Yes, I said it. I love the Bulldogs, and they are dang good at what they do. They have wrestling technique like I've never seen before. Sabu and Rob Van Dam certainly have speed on these guys, but The Bulldogs have technique, stength, and more endurance than a few horses combined. To me, I feel like the Bulldogs are the most underrated tag team, ever. They would sweep, and will always sweep the floor with Sabu and Rob Van Dam.
     
  19. MattMoses

    MattMoses Getting Noticed By Management

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    Well, matches with the likes of The Islanders, Hansen/DiBiase, Tsuruta/Tenryu, Abdullah/Tiger Jeet and Demolition were all great matches outside of the brilliant series with the Hart Foundation. You make it sound like the Hart Foundation were the only tag-team they had great matches against. False.

    It's hardly something to brag about being the best tag-team in the world when the only competition are, as you say, pieces of trash like that. Funnily enough, I still don't think they were nowhere near the best tag-team in the world at that point, as I'll mention below.

    Personally, during their peak, I'd put the Bulldogs on par with the Horsemen as the best tag-team in wrestling. The Rock N' Roll Express were great no doubt, The Freebirds were wrestling in the UWF having pretty forgettable matches, and The Von Erichs were coming to the end of their run, ultimately ending with Kerry's motorcycle accident

    Kawada/Taue and Misawa/Kobashi. The matches these two tag-teams were putting on during that period put ANY tag-team to shame, including RVD and Sabu.

    Funnily enough, I remember that feud.

    I'm not going to deny this was a good match - it was. But the greatest tag-team match EVER? Please.

    Were RVD and Sabu invincible or something? If I recall, they did suffer quite a few losses to the likes of Eliminators, Dudleyz, Impact Players & Taz and Chris Candido and perhaps a few more. Now I know what's coming. "But those tag-teams were better than the Bulldogs ever were......".

    What kind of argument is that? Do RVD and Sabu have complete indomitability to regular wrestling moves or something?
     
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  20. RVDgurl

    RVDgurl Mrs. Danielson

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    RVD & Sabu win this. The Dynamite Kid is one of the greatest tag team wrestler's ever- he was amazing to watch. Davey Boy, on the other hand, was not. He had a great physique and was strong as hell, but really didn't bring anything special to the table. In any given match, it's not feasible for the Dynamite Kid to wrestle the entire match. At some point, Davey Boy would have to get tagged in. This would be the downfall of the Bulldogs. RVD and Sabu are both too quick for Davey Boy to keep up with.

    VOTE RVD & SABU!!!!!
     
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  21. Uncle Sam

    Uncle Sam Rear Naked Bloke

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    Just because it's in blue, doesn't make it true. Inversely, post it with the Benny Hill soundtrack, your opinion must be fact.

    Of course strong men don't bring anything to the table. They're strong. However, if Davey Boy is clumsier than Chris Benout - and I think there's a strong possibility - then there's potential for a broken neck by the end of the night. With Sabu, there's potential for a broken neck every night.
     
  22. Little Jerry Lawler

    Little Jerry Lawler Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids

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    You say its not feasible for the Dynamite Kid to wrestle the entire match. It's also not feasible to assume that Davey Boy would end the match if you state that it would be the "downfall" of the Bulldogs. I could totally switch this around and say that Sabu would be the downfall of him and RVD if he is paired with Dynamite but I don't want to throw around assumptions. I still think when push comes to shove that the Bulldogs will come out with the win.
     
  23. RVDgurl

    RVDgurl Mrs. Danielson

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    My opinion is simply that- my opinion. Here's a fact for you: RVD is my favorite wrestler and I would vote for him even if he was wrestling Jesus.

    I was actually giving Davey credit for his tremendous physique and strength. Those are attributes in the wrestling business. However, it doesn't make you good. I'm not getting your connection between Davey, Chris Benoit and broken necks. Maybe there's something I'm not aware of. I do know that Chris Benoit is the one who broke Sabu's neck. And for the record, it's wrestling, so there is a potential in every match for a broken neck. I don't think having Sabu there increases that risk.

    You absolutely could switch things around. I agree with the fact that Sabu is the weaker link in the RVD & Sabu chain. I also think that most people would agree that Davey Boy is the weaker of the Bulldogs. If your casting a vote here, then you have to throw around assumptions. I still stand by my opinion that RVD & Sabu would come out on top.
     
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  24. jmt225

    jmt225 Global Moderator

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    Now, I haven't seen the Hansen/DiBiase matches, but I have seen the other two and while the Tsuruta/Tenryu match is good enough, vs. Abdullah and Tiger Jeet was not, so I don't know what match you were watching there, man. I think you're just trying to throw impressive names out or something.

    But still... the argument was that they weren't the best tag team in the World at the time, and I made the argument that they were at one point in time, especially in America. It doesn't matter who their competition was, they were still, as the Karate Kid song goes, the best around.

    Eh, well we'll just agree to disagree there, then.

    As RVDGurl mentioned, Dynamite basically carried the team, and there's just no way I would put a one-man team over those teams. Also, the fact that the Bulldogs were absolute shit on the mic and had the charisma of a turd doesn't help their case, either.

    Read my post again. I said in America, at least. I knew about those teams, which is why I made sure to say RVD and Sabu were DEFINITELY the best team in America at one point, and it could be argue the World. However, whether you claim the competition was shit or not, you still have to admit that much.

    You remember everything.

    Did I say the greatest tag match of all time? No, I said the best I've personally ever seen.

    Also, nevertheless... I don't see why that's so far fetched in your eyes. The best Japanese tag matches I'm sure you'll bring up are mostly 6 man matches that absolutely CRUSH the standard tag matches back during their hot streak in the mid-nineties.

    Moreover, even if you think the 2-man tag matches in Japan back then were better, I would love to hear you name matches from America that were better than RVD & Sabu vs. Hayabusa and Jinsei Shinzaki.

    But look at how much it took for them to get beat from those teams you mentioned. I just don't think the Bulldogs have anything in their arsenal that could keep them down. Please, tell... what move(s) could they do to RVD and Sabu to keep them down? Remember... we're talking about the Bulldogs from the eighties. Surely you don't believe a Headbutt would keep RVD and Sabu down, do you?

    The ECW versions of them, against the moves the Bulldogs would do... yep. :icon_razz:




    VOTE RVD & SABU
     
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  25. MattMoses

    MattMoses Getting Noticed By Management

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    Come on jmt, I thought you'd have thought more of me than to just "throw impressive names out there or something". :icon_cry: And honestly, Tiger Jeet's hardly an impressive name now is he. But the Bulldog's had a series of matches with them in Japan over several years up until Brody's death. The earlier matches weren't five-star classics but they weren't bad either.

    In America, at that time, I'd probably agree with you. Worldwide, not a chance.

    They were dull as hell on the mic. Infact, I can hardly remember them on the mic. I don't think sweet talking the audience or threatening their opponents was really their thing, they just got into the ring and did their stuff. But who cares, it's not like Sabu ever talked or oozed charisma.

    Sarcastic cunt. :icon_razz:

    Still, while I think it's good, there's far better out there. To each his own.

    Sting/Luger vs. The Steiners, The Steiners vs. Hase/Chono (Clash XV) & The Steiners vs. Gordy/Williams (the Clash XIX match, not Beach Blast '92, though that match was pretty good itself).


    I think I can pretty much say this, and well, it still wouldn't be much of an argument. Do you honestly think a facebuster or skullcrusher is going to keep the Bulldogs down?

    Half of Sabu and RVD's finishing moves won't even be effective here, since weapons aren't allowed, and let's be honest, they won a lot of their matches with steel chairs in play. Van Daminator? Nope, no chairs allowed. Van Terminator? Five-Star Frog Splash? It takes too long to set up, you could easily counter that by moving out of the way. Even if he did hit it, you don't think a frog splash would be able to keep Dynamite down would you?

    You see how easy it is to say "*insert move* won't keep them down"?

    Will do.
     
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