Sell Me On Wrestling

[Coco]

Not joking. At all.

I’m not a child anymore where I believe that pro wrestlers are larger than life heroes and villains. I’m not a misguided teenager who believes these people are living their dreams. What I am is a highly disillusioned young adult who sees a bunch of hard-boozing pussy-hounds going through the motions on television every week. What I see is a bunch of overgrown children bitching about life on the road and how hard the profession is on their bodies; bitching about how the fans expect too much. Yet they were stupid enough to get into this profession and continue to sell their bodies for the lifestyle it affords them and their families. In my eyes, they’re trained monkeys. They’re prostitutes. They’re lowly parasites who have nothing to bitch about since they’re happy to keep putting my money in their bank account. Worst of all is the deluded “respect” oriented locker-room culture you hear constantly being promoted by the king of the industry. Respect for the kind of men who feel they have the right to haze rookies before going home for the weekend to beat on their wife, or worse. You know who I’m talking about. Locker room respect doesn’t mean a thing to me and it’s laughable to hear that tossed around as a valuable talking point.

What I see every week is not enthralling episodic television, but rather a traveling circus that gets by on the novelty of the WWE coming to town. Inconsequential, paint-by-numbers garbage that blends in from month to month, year to year. Rematch after rematch with creative in cruise control. And there’s no end in sight because most people associated with wrestling at a high level want out. They want to make movies, write for television, do something more dignified with their life. But wrestling affords them a decent salary, so they’re more than willing to swallow their pride and leach off the industry for however long it takes to make them financially secure. These higher ups think so little of me and other fans that they continue to insult our intelligence by continuing to produce the crap they do. They insult me by thinking I won’t go looking for better television elsewhere.

The only viable alternative to this monotonous rut sees old timers hanging on for one last easy day in the spot light, and senseless embrace of overly crude content. In their hunt for recognition, this alternative has given up everything that once made them distinct and made any worthwhile homegrown talent something they didn’t need to be before marginalizing them in favor of “names” from ten or more years ago that nobody cares about anymore.

Most ridiculous of all are the fans of professional wrestling. They act like insiders because they follow the trend of worshipping wrestlers who throw a few mat moves and a faux amateur sequence into their repertoire, praising “technical” wrestlers while ignoring the facts that those “technical” moves never end matches (often rendering them inconsequential) and that technical wrestlers pepper their bouts with strikes just like any other performer. These morons go on to exhibit irrational prejudice against a select ground of wrestlers who perform using only a certain formula while most wrestlers use this formula and rarely venture outside their limited move set. Yet other wrestlers, simply because of who they are, are praised gratuitously for their abuse of signature maneuvers in “classic” encounters. The senseless double standards of wrestling fans are evident to all but them.

Worse yet is the fan who begs and pleads for a return to the “Attitude Era” because they need senseless profanity and stunt booking to sustain their interest, despite the fact that shock coming from such content is not sustainable. They see a product that includes the interests of children to be beneath them, angrily demanding that they get their way, never acknowledging a possible middle ground that could appeal to multiple age groups. Wrestling fans are small minded and utterly petty.

Why would I want to put my money into this disgusting, insulting, incompetent industry that doesn’t have even an iota of faith in the product it produces?

 

[Hawkeye]

This has got to be hands down the most depressing thing I've ever heard on this forum.

But the everlasting optimist in me can't help but try and turn your opinion around.True,the WWE and others have become money hungry machines hell bent on sapping our hard earned dollars bit by bit,but that's what it means to run a business in this day and age.The relics of the industry know this as well,and they intend on being apart of this leech as long as possible,because to be honest,they have no choice.They've blown through their money with costly divorces,drug abuse,sensless self indulgence and the like.They've removed all but a tiny bit of glory that used to come with being a professional wrestler.

But a glimmer of hope rests with the youth of today.The vast majority of incoming talent have college degrees.There's much better things they can be doing for a living,and would probably earn WAY more.But they choose this business because it's the biggest dream they've ever held on to.To become the star studded gladiators they watched on television when they were children,to recapture that sense of pure adoration from fans around the world,be they the casual viewer who happened to be at home on monday night,or the die hard wrestling enthusiast who can't wait to see what kind of damage will The Nexus do on this starry evening.

Despite the movements being controlled,the outcomes being scripted,one can't help but tune in to see the charismatic(or not) duelists battle each other in contests of athleticism and endurance.These men train for hours on end to provide entertainment to the masses and truly love what they do.The Attitude Era made a mockery of the profession I love,choosing tawdry scenes and crude humor over actual sportsmanship and superior athleticism.Hopefully,with the new influx of talent that seem to actually want the lifestyle they've chosen and carry themselves with an air of dignity.The PG era has forced them to not only find a way to create a family friendly product,but also be able to keep their old Attitude Era fans watching,the latter of which they've somewhat failed to do.

In summary,the WWE has fallen from it's pedestal in pop culture in recent years,but there's a new breed of men and women who are willing to take the bumps and bruises,the abuse of the sophomoric relics of the industry who think it's some sort of fraternity,to capture the hearts and minds of people all over the world.It's the fire and passion that keep me here,and that determination and ambition that make me want to be a part of it.To be a part of a change in a failing system,to inspire and excite fans the world over.

 

[Coco]

This has got to be hands down the most depressing thing I've ever heard on this forum.

True,the WWE and others have become money hungry machines hell bent on sapping our hard earned dollars bit by bit,but that's what it means to run a business in this day and age.

That's not what bothers me. What bothers me is that they clearly don't give a shit. So why should I?

The relics of the industry know this as well,and they intend on being apart of this leech as long as possible,because to be honest,they have no choice.They've blown through their money with costly divorces,drug abuse,sensless self indulgence and the like.They've removed all but a tiny bit of glory that used to come with being a professional wrestler.

Oh, Lordy, tell me there's a "BUT" in my future.

But a glimmer of hope rests with the youth of today.The vast majority of incoming talent have college degrees.There's much better things they can be doing for a living,and would probably earn WAY more.But they choose this business because it's the biggest dream they've ever held on to.To become the star studded gladiators they watched on television when they were children,to recapture that sense of pure adoration from fans around the world,be they the casual viewer who happened to be at home on monday night,or the die hard wrestling enthusiast who can't wait to see what kind of damage will The Nexus do on this starry evening.

And yet any glimmer of hope is lost when those stars are chained to the ground, never being allowed to show what they have in any serious feud that has any real consequence. We aren't invited to care about these youngsters, and their careers often die on the launch pad, or their push is too sudden (because of creative's sloth over the years), they seem out of place when they reach the "promised land", and nobody buys them. Couple this with the way they're forced to live and die on the same silly match formula as everyone else and I struggled to muster even the slightest enthusiasm about the young guns I know I like. They're stuck in the circus tent with everyone else, never doing anything that matters.

Despite the movements being controlled,the outcomes being scripted,one can't help but tune in to see the charismatic(or not) duelists battle each other in contests of athleticism and endurance.These men train for hours on end to provide entertainment to the masses and truly love what they do.

When every match looks exactly the same, why does how hard they train matter?

This isn't even a "they're toned down" complaint. It's a "can't we think of a different way to structure a match?" complaint.

Hopefully,with the new influx of talent that seem to actually want the lifestyle they've chosen and carry themselves with an air of dignity.The PG era has forced them to not only find a way to create a family friendly product,but also be able to keep their old Attitude Era fans watching,the latter of which they've somewhat failed to do.

And with the end of that era, many people lost on the ship lost the will to go on. They go through the motions, expecting us the swallow any gruel they see fit to throw our way, rarely showing anything resembling an inspired idea. WWE is no longer about wrestling, great wrestlers, or great feuds. It's about a circus. A total package with the WWE stamp that travels from town to town and gets by on name value. Any insider will tell you the same thing, and it shows on television every week.

To be a part of a change in a failing system,to inspire and excite fans the world over.

Your entire last paragraph made me sort of giddy at the though of Vince McMahon retiring or dying in the near future. Is there anyone left on the ship with the desire to do something positive with it? I'd love to know.

 

[Tenta]

I can't.

Look, I wish I had a more elaborate reasoning as to why you should watch both companies, even when both companies churn out uninspired television, one company more so than the other. I wish I could give you this pep rally as to why wrestling fan's, more than ever, need to circle the wagons, and cheer for their promotions like never before. I really do wish that I could explain to the outside world why I find wrestling to be my media outlet of choice. But you know what? I honestly can't sell you on wrestling, because once someone decides that thay no longer like what they're watching, there isn't a damn thing that can stop someone from no longer watching.

I think we're all aware that we, as wrestling fans, give wrestling shows and their storylines more credit than they deserve, and try to create the shows to be better than they truly are. Wrestling has hit its boom period at the Attitude Era, and it can't be matched. We all would like to see that, but I just heavily doubt that's ever going to be the case. Now, we're stuck with a corporation peddling it's shows to the next highest bidder. You're right... It's all about money, but when you really think about it, it always has been about money. Hulkamania wasn't about "Training, saying your prayers, and taking your vitamins" it's about buying as much Hulkster merch as you can find, and hey, maybe someday, you could be like the Hulkster. When you grow some friggin talent, of course.

TNA, I won't even bother ranting on, because I already did it in the ECW thread. Simply put, I officially consider it an Indy promotion. They're not a national promotion, they're an indy fed who happened to get lucky when their mark owner decided to invest millions of her father's money into an absurd television show.

What it boils down to, is that wrestling has a dark underbelly. Hell, the reason the WWE received so many of its exclusive cable outlets in the New York City area was because of Lucky Luciano, and mafia ties. Though we don't like to acknowledge it, wrestling is full of nothing more than pimps and prostitutes, selling off the name and legacy to the highest bidder. Drug use is not only permitted, it's required, with the schedule of the WWE. The sport is filled with hopeless marks who are willing to change their name, take steroids to get into physical shape needed to be in the ring, take millions of bumps on their back onto canvas, chair shots that dole out concussions that cause Irreparable brain damge, and other such bumps that will confine wrestlers to lives of wheelchairs and endless surgeries until the day they die. The psychological damage is far worse, something that your wildest nightmares could never prepare you for, as you face a backstage of backstabbers, ass kissers, and deceivers all out for your spot. It's not a glamrous sport, and the lying that the WWE does to try and make it out to be such is humorous at best.

I just can't do it for you, Coco. If you've lost faith with wrestling, you've lost faith in it. I can't make any argument to rope you back in.

 

[Hawkeye]

It's all in the system.I believe if the system were controlled by people who weren't driven by the almighty dollar(those exist?) and successfully run by business minded people with a passion for professional wrestling as a whole,then hopeless marks like me would have a sure place to stand.Until that nearly impossible day rolls around,the villainy will commence with impunity,and it hurts my soul to admit that.

 

[Davi323]

There is no need to sell you on it. You are still sold on it. The fact that despite your claims to the contrary, you do care about wrestling, or else you wouldn't have bothered. People who are sick of everything about pro wrestling aren't visiting wrestling news sites regularly. They don't view the forums. They aren't compelled to register so they can post threads about how much they hate the wrestling industry. Basically, I call bullshit on your entire post. The fact that you cared enough to even post it proves that you still care. Someone as disenfranchised as you claim to be is going to say "fuck it" and stop coming here. You still care, so there is nothing to sell you on.

 

[Coco]

There is no need to sell you on it. You are still sold on it. The fact that despite your claims to the contrary, you do care about wrestling, or else you wouldn't have bothered. People who are sick of everything about pro wrestling aren't visiting wrestling news sites regularly. They don't view the forums. They aren't compelled to register so they can post threads about how much they hate the wrestling industry. Basically, I call bullshit on your entire post. The fact that you cared enough to even post it proves that you still care. Someone as disenfranchised as you claim to be is going to say "fuck it" and stop coming here. You still care, so there is nothing to sell you on.

You'd be warm if I'd just registered to post this. I've been on the boards for years. I've tired of the wrestling product. I desire to see if the lovely wrestling fans who frequent these parts have anything helpful to say in defense of their product.

Thanks for adding nothing to the conversation. Way to be useful.

Rodricks, once again, it's not about the people driven by money. They'll always be around and I don't disgree with the mentality. It's the idea that I'm being sold an uninspired product which they don't even believe in that gets me.

 

[The Doctor]

I can't. You either get it or you don't. It's sad, but it's true. People lose passion for everything. It's why relationships fizzle, it's why people get bored of what they thought was their dream job, it's why mid-life crises occur. People just get bored. It's the natural cycle of life.

People who love wrestling love to see angles and wrestlers. They like to see drama unfold. It's a TV show, just like Mad Men or Chuck or Burn Notice or Royal Pains. Some people aren't going to like the same TV shows. I for example cannot stand Sex and the City, but that had a major cult following.

If your problems are as deep as you say, and you're just not feeling the passion, there's nothing to be done.

I'm sorry.

 

[DirtyJosé]

It's the idea that I'm being sold an uninspired product which they don't even believe in that gets me.

That's entertainment, buddy. Welcome to Hollywood. Wrestling sure has it's own unique problems, but the above statement could be made by any consumer of any other form of entertainment media out there. Not that this is supposed to keep you interested in the product, but I wanted to point out that this isn't a unique problem.

 

[harrythem]

Fair enough you've lost your passion for wrestling but I've known a lot of new fans that haven't seen the things that've gone before and they're quite happy with it as it is. Hell my son loves watching wrestling and, to me, that's what matters the most. We had this whole period from late 92 through to early 97 and the main difference between the times is that there wasn't the internet then to complain about it, wrestling became a dirty word kept secret.

I bet you'd enjoy wrestling a lot more if you kept away from the internet and such the like, as things like debuts and the big angels, etc, would actually be a surprise again when you see them.

 

[Hawkeye]

Your a lost one Coco.The passion has died within you.The years have been hard on you,and you couldn't hold onto it any longer.I feel bad for you I really do.I for one love wrestling in a way I've never loved anything before.The pyro,the rivalry,the excitement,the glamour,I love it all.I know there's alot of behind the scenes stuff I know nothing about,but I'd rather be blind to it.I'd be more than happy wrestling for an indy fed or even in TNA because I love wrestling and I want people to see my passion for it.It's that blissful ignorance that keeps me glued to the TV and in the gym hoping that one day,I'll be as lucky as the guys I see in the ring.You know WAY too much to be sold on it now and that's the cold,hard truth...

 

[Tastycles]

I think your holding wrestling on an artificial plane, to be honest. The fact of the matter is that very few eminent people, be it entertainer, politician or sportsman, or indeed, the profession which mixes the three, wrestlers, give a shit about the crowd. At the end of the day, it's a job and they are going to complain about it. In my previous job I used to get paid a ecent amount, on somedays to do literally nothing, but I still moaned whenever I had to do anything, people just resent work. As for the demand for respect from the elders, that kind of bullshit goes on everywhere too. Cliques exist, and if you want to get anywhere, you have to put up with that sort of shit.

Conclusion: If you are going to not like something because the people who do it are ********s, you may as well be Almish.

The writing is uninspired, but again, that's a problem affecting most television these days. Every year there are one or two shows that break the mould, but generally television is uninspired, particularly from your continent. That shouldn't be an excuse for wrestling though. I think rather than being a creative cruise control, it's more about being out of ideas and trying to find a niche. It's true that the underwriters are generally wannabe Hollywood producers, but the men in overall creative control of both TNA and WWE, Bischoff and McMahon, are both career wrestling men, they're just past their best. That being said, there are more compelling storylines in wrestling now than there have been in the past, they just haven't found the killer Austin, nWo, style storyline again.

Conclusion: Lazy writing, but you have to keep the faith that someone will come up with something good again. If you can't do that, everything is not lost, but perhaps a switch to fairweather fan would be better for you?

The stars holding on for one last pay day is very valid. It can't happen in real sports, because they'll just Michael Schumacher all over the place, and it can't happen in acting or singing, because they lose their looks and voice. It's certainly unfortunate that people do hang on in wrestling, but the real problem with that is the fans wanting them to carry on. If people weren't paying to see Hulk Hogan make his three yearly WrestleMania motions, they wouldn't happen, which brings us on to our next point.

I was going to make a thread about techincal wrestling the other day, because it is, for the most part, completely bullshit. For me, technicality is an absolutely minor consideration, and only really increases my enjoyment of a match if both people are doing it, in which case, I'm watching something quite aesthetic, but otherwise, no. What you have to try and do though is distance yourself from the IWC, not the fans overall. Remember,four times as many people tuned in to see the Ultimate Warrior than tuned in to see Chris Benoit as world champion. There's nothing wrong with 90% of the non IWC fans, and it's probably only 50% or so of the IWC who are now so stupid, thanks to crusaders like Slyfox. The fans are stupid, but don't blame them for wrestling, just stop talking to them.

Ultimately, if you don't take anything from wrestling anymore, stop watching. However, if you are taking something from the matches and storylines, carry on. The fact of the matter is, if you watched wrestling on your television and never looked on news sites or forums, you wouldn't be irritated by the fans, you wouldn't know that wrestlers moan about the fans. Essentially, ignorance can be bliss. Have you lost faith in wrestling, or the internet's picture of wrestling? If it's the former, then stop watching. If it's the latter, stop paying attention to the IWC.

 

[LigerBomb]

Sell Me On Wrestling

No.
Like it, don't like it; watch it, don't watch it; complain about it, don't complain about it; whatever. It's not my --or anyone else's-- job to convince you to do anything you (apparently) don't want to do anymore. If you truly have lost the enjoyment you perhaps once had as a fan Pro-wrestling, all I can say is 'oh well'. No harm, no foul though. Tastes change, and you're allowed to not like the things you did when you were younger. If it's time for you to move on, then it's time for you to move on. I doubt many in the business will mourn the loss. Granted, I'm sure WWE and (Pro-wrestling in general) is glad they got out of you the money and ratings that they did for as long as they could. However, a single viewer won't ever be noticed if/when they leave. Though if/when you do in fact leave I'm sure they'll be nice enough to leave the light on for ya just in case.

 

[Coco]

I think your holding wrestling on an artificial plane, to be honest. The fact of the matter is that very few eminent people, be it entertainer, politician or sportsman, or indeed, the profession which mixes the three, wrestlers, give a shit about the crowd. At the end of the day, it's a job and they are going to complain about it. In my previous job I used to get paid a ecent amount, on somedays to do literally nothing, but I still moaned whenever I had to do anything, people just resent work. As for the demand for respect from the elders, that kind of bullshit goes on everywhere too. Cliques exist, and if you want to get anywhere, you have to put up with that sort of shit.

Conclusion: If you are going to not like something because the people who do it are ********s, you may as well be Almish.

So far, you're winning the thread. So yeah, either keeping on with wrestling or resigning myself to seclusion and living off the land: The only two reasonable options, IMO.

But really, it's a good point.

The writing is uninspired, but again, that's a problem affecting most television these days. Every year there are one or two shows that break the mould, but generally television is uninspired, particularly from your continent. That shouldn't be an excuse for wrestling though. I think rather than being a creative cruise control, it's more about being out of ideas and trying to find a niche. It's true that the underwriters are generally wannabe Hollywood producers, but the men in overall creative control of both TNA and WWE, Bischoff and McMahon, are both career wrestling men, they're just past their best. That being said, there are more compelling storylines in wrestling now than there have been in the past, they just haven't found the killer Austin, nWo, style storyline again.

Conclusion: Lazy writing, but you have to keep the faith that someone will come up with something good again. If you can't do that, everything is not lost, but perhaps a switch to fairweather fan would be better for you?

I think it's my mistake for turning on the WWE or TNA after a few episodes of The Wire or Breaking Bad. Maybe.

I will agree that recently, there have been flickers of creative trying to do "stuff." A promo about a man who never lies, an invasion, a cougar... I will give them that recently, things have gotten a tad better. There can be some hope gleened from that. Also, a show just ended with Punk running into the street in his wrestling gear. If he ever had a doubt that he'd made it, consider it erased.

The stars holding on for one last pay day is very valid. It can't happen in real sports, because they'll just Michael Schumacher all over the place, and it can't happen in acting or singing, because they lose their looks and voice.

Dick Clark still does his New Year's Eve speical and Susan Lucci is still on television every weekday wearing cocktail dresses. Trust me, there're plenty of undignified looking has-beens out there.

Which makes it more than just a wrestling problem.

Which makes me angrier.

It's certainly unfortunate that people do hang on in wrestling, but the real problem with that is the fans wanting them to carry on. If people weren't paying to see Hulk Hogan make his three yearly WrestleMania motions, they wouldn't happen, which brings us on to our next point.

People haven't been tuning in in droves to see Hogan in TNA, but I'm still convinced we're headed for Hogan vs. Abyss for the belt at BFGlory.

I know. There must be a lot of darkness in my heart for me to even suggest that.

I was going to make a thread about techincal wrestling the other day, because it is, for the most part, completely bullshit. For me, technicality is an absolutely minor consideration, and only really increases my enjoyment of a match if both people are doing it, in which case, I'm watching something quite aesthetic, but otherwise, no. What you have to try and do though is distance yourself from the IWC, not the fans overall. Remember,four times as many people tuned in to see the Ultimate Warrior than tuned in to see Chris Benoit as world champion. There's nothing wrong with 90% of the non IWC fans, and it's probably only 50% or so of the IWC who are now so stupid, thanks to crusaders like Slyfox. The fans are stupid, but don't blame them for wrestling, just stop talking to them.

This warms my <British word for soul>.

Ultimately, if you don't take anything from wrestling anymore, stop watching. However, if you are taking something from the matches and storylines, carry on. The fact of the matter is, if you watched wrestling on your television and never looked on news sites or forums, you wouldn't be irritated by the fans, you wouldn't know that wrestlers moan about the fans. Essentially, ignorance can be bliss. Have you lost faith in wrestling, or the internet's picture of wrestling? If it's the former, then stop watching. If it's the latter, stop paying attention to the IWC.

I don't know. It's a combination of both, but I've never been shy about telling people how stupid they are so I don't like to think the fans have suddenly broken me. And wrestling's never been THAT great, so I probably just started comparing it to the wrong things over the last few years.

Either way, your post gets a gold star and pre-cum.

That's entertainment, buddy. Welcome to Hollywood. Wrestling sure has it's own unique problems, but the above statement could be made by any consumer of any other form of entertainment media out there. Not that this is supposed to keep you interested in the product, but I wanted to point out that this isn't a unique problem.

No sale. Not when I can still turn on a top notch cable show or go see a Pixar film not feel as though I'm wasting my time watching what I'm watching.

I bet you'd enjoy wrestling a lot more if you kept away from the internet and such the like, as things like debuts and the big angels, etc, would actually be a surprise again when you see them.

I don't buy this. I didn't enjoy Jericho's return any less because I knew it was coming. Same with Van Dam's TNA debut or WWE title win. And the internet never spoiled me regarding Punk's first win, Cena's Royal Rumble return, or the NXT invasion. So the suggestion that access to spoilage from the IWC is the root of all evil is a theory I've never accepted.

This is lots of fun. I'm not wild about some wrestling fans not being able to put up a strong defense of their product, which is MOSTLY what this thread is about, but the responses have been fun to read. As fun as such things can be to read.

 

[Miko]

That whole locker room respect thing is stupid, "backstage heat on Booker T because he didnt hang around and shake the Undertaker's hand and verbally suck his cock, instead he does his job and goes home". Fans on here buy into that shit as well, saying that he's a locker room leader, sounds like an arrogant cunt to me, he's not even been that entertaining since he stopped riding the bike around.

The technical fans as well, Kurt Angle is not the best wrestler in the world today, he's just a 3 hour long ankle lock marathon, who happens to sweat alot and spit everywhere. Sell you on wrestling? No more than I could on anything that lasts for 2 hours or more a week. I think of it as a sketch show, you kinda have to tolerate the shit to get to the real good stuff, on the other hand I dont watch it that much anymore.