Samoa Joe & The Pope: Russo Finally Got The Gray & Grey Thing

[ABMorales787]

For years Vince Russo has said he doesn't believe in face/heel. No one can be a total face and no one can be a total heel. He was right. Well in words only. In action, he was notoriously off the ball in many occasions and to many he still is. Characters directly turn from one role to another too oftenly around him. That's not gray and grey. Gray and grey would mean remaining the same character no matter what role you play.

Low and behold, come Samoa Joe and The Pope. These two feuded not that long ago. Joe was face, Pope was heel. No questions there. But after their feuds we saw interesting stuff from the two. Joe would get in Crimson's face form making a big deal of his streak. But did he turn heel? Actually no. Samoa Joe has been known to have a hot temper and not get along with anyone regardless of his affiliation. He continued his tirade with Kaz. But I ask, did he turn heel? No. He was just acting the way we know Samoa Joe would act.

As for The Pope, after his feud with Joe, he started to make friends with Devon's family. Why? I don't know. Thing is despite acting mostly like a face (helping Devon and all that) the insinuations that he's being deceitful have always been present. Again, he never turned face. He's just being the "sly, street-smart guy" we've come to know. His actions are to be expected and understanded due to the way we've come to know him.

In my eyes, these two truly define the gray and grey morality stuff Vince Russo has long since "preached about". Agree or disagree?

 

[Elementz of Fear]

While I totally get what you're saying and agree that these 2 guys are in fact in the middle the gray and grey idea just wont ever work on a consistent basis. As dumb as this sounds people need to know who to cheer for and who to boo. It works when 1 or 2 guys can be in the middle because then they stand out but if the idea of having faces and heels faded out entirely it would be a mess. Arguably the biggest star wrestling has ever seen was "gray" and I'm talking about Stone Cold Steve Austin. He did whatever, whenever, to whomever but it worked because he was so different from everybody else. It works for Samoa Joe but I can't see it working on a larger scale in terms of a wrestling wide change.

 

[Jay Sherman]

They are but that does not mean its working. Impact zone counts for nothing, as the fans cheer for everything, and are as blinded as TNA fan can be. Go on the road and you will hear clear and cut boo's or cheer's, and then why not capitalize on it. Why not increases merchandise sales of current tweeners making them full fledged heel/face. I am not a fan and it just comes across as poor booking rather then "blurring the lines of face and heel"

 

[Stagger Lee]

It's not a blurred line or a "gray thing." TNA simply doesn't have any direction, so people go from heel to face to heel at the drop of a hat. They may seem to be blurring the line, but that is a direct result of them being in limbo rather than them actually having a story that dictates their behavior one way or another.

 

[shogunsrampage]

i can see your point with joe as joes coming off as just an intense character...but its pretty obvious pope isa heel, and trying to act good for some unknown reasons..it def has swurve allllllllllllll over it so i wouldnt say hes gray so much...

 

[GrandSword]

The problem with the grey and grey of Joe and Pope means they are dull and boring... just like grey.

If Pope is full blown face he's an outrageous caharcter that gets the fans rocking! Same with Joe, give him some big time opponents, as a face with his hard hitting MMA style and he 's a brigfht shining light.

Russo's grey means both men came out of that feud worse for wear and need "Plan B" tpe storylines to regain some cedibility the program damaged. This is wrestling not rocket science. Grey on grey when porrly executed which Russo does most oft he itme is a fail, and is complex for complex sake, not entertianing, and helpful in growing brands like Joe and Dinero to help the product.

 

[LegendKiller716]

I disagree. Joe is a heel. Simple as that. He got cheered last night because the impact zone respects him. That's like saying John Cena is a heel right now because the crowd boos him.

As for Pope. Also a heel. He looks like he's trying to get with Devon's wife. Although I wish Pope would turn face again, because he's an awesome face, he is still a heel. No grey or gray area.

 

[Cena's #1 In My Heart]

You guys don't know... their just neutral.

Why would Joe be heel when just a few months ago he was feuding with Pope? Why can't anyone be deemed just a tweener? Maybe Joe's character reflects his personality.. and maybe he just doesn't give a fuck what the crowd thinks.

I agree with the original poster.

How another poster can say ... AND I QUOTE:

It's not a blurred line or a "gray thing." TNA simply doesn't have any direction, so people go from heel to face to heel at the drop of a hat. They may seem to be blurring the line, but that is a direct result of them being in limbo rather than them actually having a story that dictates their behavior one way or another.

How can you even make an accusation like that when your not apart of the company? How do you know what creative wants or is trying to intend? That is just pure speculation in your opinion..

With Pope especially I can feel that creative is challenging us to figure out if he's really a face and helping D-Von.. or if he's working D-Von. Joe has just kinda been the same the last few years... you either like him cause he'll beat the shit out of anyone.. or you'll hate him because he's beating the shit out of your favorite.

 

[GrandSword]

Pope wants to bed DVon's wife... it's been pretty obvious.

 

[whoopin' ass]

nope. the whole shades of grey thing is just a bs excuse to have someone go after anyone at anytime so you can write cheap tv - they are a good guy because they are attacking a heel but a heel when they go after a babyface and it changes from week to week. what have either of them done to really become heel? joe has always gone out there and kicked everyone's ass but he is still pretty much in face mode (otherwise he would have taken daniels out and he would have faced at styles at the ppv). as for the pope, it looked like they were turning him heel a few months back but all of a sudden he was off tv and you never really saw it happen so really, he is still face for the most part, just an arrogant one. their actions make them heel or face and neither have really done anything to make them heels.

 

[Vintage]

Joe is clearly a face but is aggressive and vicious like you'd expect a heel to be but that's just Joe.

Pope is walking the line. At one point he was a full blown heel. Now it appears he's mending his ways but he's probably just doing D-Von's wife on the side and playing mind games. Definitely not what a face would do but he lacks that mean streak that guys like Bully Ray and Joe have. I don't expect Pope to reform anytime soon but I don't think he's really full heel yet...

 

[nWo2]

They are but that does not mean its working.

Preach, two guys who should be closer to the title picture than Crimson.

Joe & Pope are the biggest underachievers in TNA now and Joe is on a PPV losing streak.