Samoa Joe: Repair or Repo?

[Little Jerry Lawler]

When Samoa Joe first debuted in TNA in 2005, he was booked as unstoppable. He performed classic matches with A.J. Styles and Christopher Daniels and had moves you would never expect from a 300-pound guy. In 2006, his eighteen month undefeated streak was ended by Kurt Angle and he began to pursue the heavyweight championship. He finally won the TNA Heavyweight Championship at Lockdown 2008.

To me, he seemed to be on the decline right there. He is just not believable as a face and with this Nation of Violence gimmick, they are trying to give him personality but it hasn't really paid off yet. I believe they should have gave him the title in the middle of his undefeated streak and have a face Angle beat him at Lockdown.

So do you think TNA will be able to fix Samoa Joe and his character or should they take him back to the way he was when he first arrived in TNA?

 

[finneycom1]

Well, first I just wanna say that I have been pretty (negatively) vocal on here about TNA, in general, in the past. However, I have been trying to catch it more, and I will say that I am enjoying some of the stuff that they are doing.

Now, as far as Samoa Joe goes: I like the Nation of Violence gimmick. He's kind of a loner and has a face paint getup like Mike Tyson's tattoo. He kind of reminds me of an Umaga that can talk. But, he has to get rid of that damn knife. Carry a tiki torch or kendo stick. The knife is just dumb. He's bad ass enough without carrying an illegal weapon.

I agree, they should have given him the title mid-way through the streak, turn him heel, then fued with Angle. 100% agree with that.

 

[a0161613]

Yeah i think Joe got the title too late. I dont think that with the benefit of hindsight, that fact can be doubted, he had the momentum and fan support to carry the belt and have a better reign than he ended up having.

I refuse to believe that he and AJ are not the future of the company. Their X Division stuff was gold. I believed it carried the company through Jarretts last reign of boredom. He outgrew the X Division quickly and he did it by destroying people in the ring and letting his actions speak for him.

I'm certainly intrigued as to what their current feud brings. I hope it takes in the World title at some point but there is no doubt in my mind, the matches will be awesome. maybe even the best the company has ever put on. I see Joe having at least one World title reign by the end of 2010. So long as he doesn't continue to hold knives to peoples throats.

 

[BigDaddyKewl]

I agree hes on the decline this new gimmick might ruin him. He has put on wieght and he looks like hes got a you know what on his face. If the guy is so tough why does he need to carry around a knife. I think hes got to quit feuding with the Mafia and maybe put him a match with some one he can work with. Joe vs AJ or Chris Daniels would be a good match and hasnt been done in a while.

 

[HHHDiedForOurSins]

I don't know if he can get back his aura he had in 05/06, too much damage might have been done.

For a start he has to lose the horrible ring attire and the gay tattoo and lose some weight, appearance matters in wrestling, especially if they want him to be a marketable World Champion.

I agree he won the title far too late, if he won it in late 05/early 06 when he was at his most over he could have been a great champion, but they gave him the belt a year and half later when nobody cared about him anymore apart from some loyal TNA fans, his title reign was a joke.

In fairness, I think TNA realised the fans were losing interest in him, so they turned him into a tweener with the Nation of Violence thing, but that's been a total failure IMO. I think they just need to go back to basics with him, turn him heel, have him kill people and people will start chanting "Joe's gonna kill you" again instead of laughing at him. Also, just let him wrestle again like he used to, when was the last time he even had a memorable match? The cage match with Angle? That was over a year ago.

 

[mattropolis]

It's unfathomable (spell check?) that TNA has screwed up Joe as much as they have. His title reign was certainly way too late and I didn't give two stones when he was champ.

Here's hoping the addition of Taz as manager/mentor can repair some of the damage. Threatening to slit open Scott Steiner with a giant knife was kinda hilarious though.

 

[Slyfox696]

I find it amusing that TNA "screwed up" Joe. How did they screw him up? By not putting the title on him when he wasn't ready? Hell, when they DID put the title on him, he proved TNA right, that he wasn't good enough to carry the company.

Samoa Joe, at the end of the day, is just not a main event wrestler. He's not good enough in the ring, he's horrible on the mic and has terrible acting skills. TNA didn't screw up Joe, they made the guy look like a god. But, you can only make a guy look so good...at some point talent has to kick in. And Joe just doesn't have it.

 

[Uncle Sam]

I find it amusing that TNA "screwed up" Joe. How did they screw him up? By not putting the title on him when he wasn't ready? Hell, when they DID put the title on him, he proved TNA right, that he wasn't good enough to carry the company.

The title reign isn't the disaster people make it out to be. There's little evidence to suggest that his reign was much less successful than Angle's, Sting's or, indeed, Foley's.

Samoa Joe, at the end of the day, is just not a main event wrestling. He's not good enough in the ring, he's horrible on the mic and has terrible mic skills. TNA didn't screw up Joe, they made the guy look like a god. But, you can only make a guy look so good...at some point talent has to kick in. And Joe just doesn't have it.

To be fair, the new gimmick is absolutely pants on head ******ed. TNA tell Joe to lose some weight, put something sensible on and, I dunno, something else, you have a very workable upper carder up there, and somebody that won't look out of place in the odd main event.

 

[MrPlatano1989]

some errors in your facts, his streak ended in 2006, and he won the title at lockdown 2008

I think this nation of violence is great, everyone he has faced has jobbed to him, even kurt angle in the cage gauntlet

It also is building up towards fueds with AJ styles and a million other faces as well as heels, the way theyre booking him is like he cant be stopped

He faces Kevin Nash at the next ppv, you guys will see how differently this match will be booked from the one in november, Samoa Joe might beat the shit out of Nash, if he doesnt dq himself

 

[gg inferno]

I find it amusing that TNA "screwed up" Joe. How did they screw him up? By not putting the title on him when he wasn't ready? Hell, when they DID put the title on him, he proved TNA right, that he wasn't good enough to carry the company.

Samoa Joe, at the end of the day, is just not a main event wrestling. He's not good enough in the ring, he's horrible on the mic and has terrible mic skills. TNA didn't screw up Joe, they made the guy look like a god. But, you can only make a guy look so good...at some point talent has to kick in. And Joe just doesn't have it.

good to see slyfox chime in with the only post that hits the nail on the head. the bottom line is that nobody on this message board will ever admit that the ROH guys that have had almost four years of tv now most certainly aren't the saviors of the business that everyone thought they'd be. they're not main eventers. period. but, of course, to accept that FACT, everyone will have to admit they were wrong, which is something posters on this board rarely, and willingly, admit.

 

[Smart Mark]

I like Joe and think he is very talented. Its both tna's fault and Joes fault that he is kinda sour. Alot of people are saying "don't blame tna" but a the bookers and writers can ruin a guy just as easily as make him(case and point: santino, who was a serious face, got boring, than became a less serious heel, got boring, than became a total comedy character who is only where he is right now due to the writing of his character. whens the last time he really wrestled a match?). Joe though needs to figure out personality in his character, that's not TNA's job, that's his. I personally loved the Joe Angle feud and i think Joe is a talented wrestler and hes not the worst promo cutter, he just needs to figure out who he is more than the animalistic violent guy. Batesta did it, so can Joe.

 

[Black Snow]

TNA screwed up with Joe but it wasn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be. Maybe he got the title a little too late but that wasn't the main issue. The problem was his title reign. Retaining in King of the Mountain was a big step in the right direction. The wrong direction was having him just be the next person in the line of victims who lose their title to Sting at Bound for Glory; cheating or not.

Joe isn't a good talker. I'd never pretend that he was. But he doesn't need to be a talker. When you're as big and strong as Joe is coupled with his great in ring skills and stamina for a man of his size you don't need to be great on the mic. Joe should have held the TNA title for over a year straight. Whatever Jarrett's record is for the longest title reign in TNA history Joe should have eclipsed it and no force of nature nor no act of God should have stopped him. He should have eventually lost the title either in a way similiar to how he dropped the X-title in a multi person match that doesn't include him in the fall or in a match where one billion people have to interfere. Nash with a baseball bat shot doesn't cut it.

Joe is meant to be dominate. That's why it's so silly that he's running around with a knife. That's why it's pathetic that Joe never made a huge stink about that storyline idea that he was denied a rematch with Sting. Right now Joe looks like a big baby that needs a knife to fight. Him being late to matches doesn't make him look like a guy that marches to the beat of his own drum. It make him look like a pouting crybaby.

Joe can easily be fixed with a long, dominate, take no shit from anyone title reign. The question is WILL TNA fix him. I think it's fairly doubtful.

 

[orlorr85]

I think Joe was good when he didnt talk and just kick ass. He was so unstoppable that the fans turn him face. When he started talking, thats the downfall for Joe. I think there going back to when he didnt talk and just beat up people. If he turn heel again it will make the shows a little bit better. And since AJ and Joe are fight meaning that there are going in that direction.

 

[Hero]

I find it amusing that TNA "screwed up" Joe. How did they screw him up? By not putting the title on him when he wasn't ready? Hell, when they DID put the title on him, he proved TNA right, that he wasn't good enough to carry the company.

Samoa Joe, at the end of the day, is just not a main event wrestler. He's not good enough in the ring, he's horrible on the mic and has terrible acting skills. TNA didn't screw up Joe, they made the guy look like a god. But, you can only make a guy look so good...at some point talent has to kick in. And Joe just doesn't have it.

I agree with everything outside of the horrible on the mic part, and partially the in-ring part.

As far as the mic goes, he's horrible as a face on the mic. He's decent as a heel, because he has a more sarcastic tone about him which seems to suit him much better. While he's not good by any means, I wouldn't call him horrible on the mic when heel.

In-ring, he was good enough. Was being the key word. Thing is that Joe doesn't seem to be as motivated as he was in 2003-2005 for ROH, and he looks to have put on additional weight. The other thing that seems to have affected him is that as a main eventer in TNA, he's mostly going against limited guys, as opposed to what he was doing both in ROH, and in his initial run in the X-Division.

 

[OhCanadaEh2009]

I think right now, Samoa Joe's turned into a TNA version of Kane.

Kane was the same. At first, he was unstoppable, could take a chair shot without flinching, etc. Then they wussed up Kane, and now he's the Kane of today.

TNA repackaged Samoa Joe, now he isn't some samoan machine that can't be defeated, and he's got that ugly tattoo on his face, like he's pretending to be Umaga.

Samoa Joe needs to go back to the old school Samoa Joe. Undefeated streaks, muscle busters, and no giant knifes.

 

[Hero]

and he's got that ugly tattoo on his face, like he's pretending to be Umaga.

Umaga wasn't the first wrestler to have facepaint. People seriously need to stop acting like Joe is copying Umaga when in fact Umaga copied someone else with the facepaint.

 

[Prince Punk]

Say it ant so Joe! Say it ant so!! The Fact of the matter is when joe came into the company he was indeed amazing funny that he started with them right when i started watching it was fun watching him crush the x division and he became x division champ and what not and that's when i stopped watching for awhile..... Kurt angle comes to TNA I decide to watch and see whats been going on I stick around to see Samoa Joe win the World title! But then heard him cry like a little bitch! running to Kevin Nash for advice screaming about how unfair things were.... Then he got angry. and YOU DON'T WANT TO GET JOE ANGRY OR HE SMASH!!!! your fucking ear drums as he screams into the mic like a 2 year old child.... Now they have him growling and hanging ppl upside down beating them with kendo sticks threatening them with knives.... I can deal with the new look Joe you can keep your new look but how about instead of that knife you carry a kendo stick and just beat THE HOLY HELL out of everyone you feel like with it..... be crazy all you want joe but drop the knife joe..... Say it ant so Joe! Say it ant so that you have fallen off the reservation into the shuffle!!! oh but it is true Joe oh but it is......

 

[Scott Free]

Samoa Joe is about to enter the repair shop. Has anyone noticed how he's now covering his head with a towel Tazz style ? That will be the catalyst, Tazz. According to rumors, and you all know how reliable those are, Taz is supposed to become Joe's mentor, Tazz had a similar persona to that of Joe, except, he had Paul Heyman and Alfonzo to do the talking for him. At one point in his career Tazz was referred as "The Most Miserable Human Being on the Face of the Planet" well, Joe has been there. The latest developments have been horrible, the cheesy pants, the knife, and the tattoo have to go, back to basics for Joe, and he needs Tazz to hype him up a bit, I suppose then they will do a "Path of Destruction" storyline that will lead to a title reign, and while it might not came off as nothing original,this will work out fine, TNA has given us such obviously reworked gimmicks as Little Poppa Pump and Black Machismo so reworking Joe into a Tazz-like character won't be a huge surprise, especially since he was already doing something similar to begin with.

 

[varney]

the guy still has 3 5* matches under his belt with totally different opponents, he can be fixed because he will never forget how to wrestle

 

[wolvdog316]

Folks, Joe isn't going to be fixed. He can't be fixed. As soon as TNA brought in, and then LET a WWE guy simply destroy, belittle, and punk out their so called hardcore, workhorse machine, it was over.

Now, he's just another fat guy who can't work the stick. Same thing with Goldberg when they turned him heel and he ran away from everybody. Yeah WWE brought him in, but he was never quite the same.

 

[Slyfox696]

I agree with everything outside of the horrible on the mic part, and partially the in-ring part.

So you think he's atrocious on the mic and incredibly terrible in ring?

As far as the mic goes, he's horrible as a face on the mic. He's decent as a heel, because he has a more sarcastic tone about him which seems to suit him much better. While he's not good by any means, I wouldn't call him horrible on the mic when heel.

So you say he's average as best as a heel, horrible as a face, and you wouldn't call that horrible overall?

In-ring, he was good enough. Was being the key word. Thing is that Joe doesn't seem to be as motivated as he was in 2003-2005 for ROH, and he looks to have put on additional weight.

Motivation? He's being paid money to do a job, that's the motivation. He's performing in front of people who put down their hard earned money to watch him. That's motivation.

If he's not motivated to perform that says more about the man than anything else possibly could.

The other thing that seems to have affected him is that as a main eventer in TNA, he's mostly going against limited guys, as opposed to what he was doing both in ROH, and in his initial run in the X-Division.

False. It's not that the main-event guys are limited, it's the fact they aren't going to bump like fiends for him, which is the only way Joe could ever get over. Go back, and look at all of his best matches in TNA. They will involve Styles, Daniels and Sabin...because those guys were willing to take big bumps for him to make him look good. While I certainly don't wish to derail this thread, the difference between Joe and a guy like John Cena is that Cena can either sell his opponents offense well, or he can carry out the offensive end of the match well. Joe can't. Joe can do one thing and one thing only, and that's dominate his opponent. He's weak in every other category.

Umaga wasn't the first wrestler to have facepaint. People seriously need to stop acting like Joe is copying Umaga when in fact Umaga copied someone else with the facepaint.

I wish Joe would copy Umaga, that way he could learn to be a better wrestler.

the guy still has 3 5* matches under his belt with totally different opponents

LOL, that's such a joke.

Joe vs. Punk 2 was an average match at best. Joe vs. Kobashi was AWFUL. Meltzer must have been doing some hardcore drugs to rate that crapfest a 5 star match. "Hey, look, they're slapping each other like a bunch of girls. 17 stars!". What an awful match.

The three way from Unstoppable was very good. I'm not sure if it was worthy of a 5 star rating, but it was very good. I mean, if Meltzer doesn't consider Savage vs. Steamboat to be a 5 star, can we really consider the Unbreakable three way a five star? Hard to make that argument.

he can be fixed because he will never forget how to wrestle

I wish he would, that way someone would teach him how to wrestle well.

Folks, Joe isn't going to be fixed. He can't be fixed. As soon as TNA brought in, and then LET a WWE guy simply destroy, belittle, and punk out their so called hardcore, workhorse machine, it was over.

Now, he's just another fat guy who can't work the stick.

And what does that say about Joe, when losing to a world renown main-eventer caused him to become irrelevant. Basically what you just said is that the only way Joe can be relevant is if he squashes everyone he ever wrestles, and short of that, can never be entertaining.

That says that Joe is not good. Good workers aren't hurt by losses. Hell, I'll use Cena as an example again. How many times has Cena been pinned over the last 3 years? Numerous times. On PPV, at Wrestlemania, even on free TV. Hasn't seen to hurt him in the least...he's still the biggest draw in American wrestling. But Joe loses to a multi-time World Champion from the WWE in Kurt Angle, and he's no longer good.

Like I said, that tells you all you need to know about Joe.



Main-event wrestling isn't about that. It's about two epic titans of the ring going back and forth to determine a winner. The fact that Joe only looks good in the ring when people bump hard for him says that it is JOE who is limited, not the other guys in TNA.

 

[Mjolnir]

Just a quick two cents on Samoa Joe... I think that he can definately use some work, but that being said, so can lots of the TNA (and WWE) rosters. Facepaint... ehh, don't particularly like it. Shaved head... better than Elvis do. Knife... definately DON'T like it, and I am surprised that he will agree to do it... it will not get him over at all.

I like his wrestling style. I like his angry promos. I don't mind that he doesn't care about the MEM or the Front Line crap and just wants to beat up on everyone.

I don't CARE that Joe is fat, he is SAMOAN! His name is not Hollywood Joe, or Joey Nitro, or Abs McGee. His name is Samoa Joe and it fits. No one cares that Umaga is fat... As long as Joe remains quick and agile for his size, I don't really think his look limits him in the ring. Sheik Abdul-Bashir is ripped, and no one gives a rat's ass about him.

I really like this tease with him working with Taz, and think that might go really well...

Wrestlers are riding a roller coaster, sometimes they are high and sometimes low... I like the upside of Samoa Joe, and see him being around for a long time in TNA.

 

[mrstlouis]

Just a quick two cents on Samoa Joe... I think that he can definately use some work, but that being said, so can lots of the TNA (and WWE) rosters. Facepaint... ehh, don't particularly like it. Shaved head... better than Elvis do. Knife... definately DON'T like it, and I am surprised that he will agree to do it... it will not get him over at all.

I like his wrestling style. I like his angry promos. I don't mind that he doesn't care about the MEM or the Front Line crap and just wants to beat up on everyone.

I don't CARE that Joe is fat, he is SAMOAN! His name is not Hollywood Joe, or Joey Nitro, or Abs McGee. His name is Samoa Joe and it fits. No one cares that Umaga is fat... As long as Joe remains quick and agile for his size, I don't really think his look limits him in the ring. Sheik Abdul-Bashir is ripped, and no one gives a rat's ass about him.

I really like this tease with him working with Taz, and think that might go really well...

Wrestlers are riding a roller coaster, sometimes they are high and sometimes low... I like the upside of Samoa Joe, and see him being around for a long time in TNA.

no one care that umaga is fat because he is full blooded samoan. while joe is a half breed .joe is half samoan & half white .
so joe is not really a real true samoan. samoa joes wrestling style sucks & he is too much of a japanese spot monkey ..joe is also ass to his fans.the knife thing does not belong at all in wrestling & everything joe has done in last 2 month should have him in jail right know . so tna is wrong for it & it should not being even happening. joe & cm punk are the most overrated talent in wrestling. bobby lashley is better then both of them & so is jack swagger & umaga. joe is samoan reject.

 

[Hero]

So you think he's atrocious on the mic and incredibly terrible in ring?


Obviously not, based on what I said next.

So you say he's average as best as a heel, horrible as a face, and you wouldn't call that horrible overall?

No, I wouldn't. If you get an A, then get an F, your average isn't an F, now is it? And don't claim that I said his mic skills were an A as a heel. That's just an example.

Motivation? He's being paid money to do a job, that's the motivation. He's performing in front of people who put down their hard earned money to watch him. That's motivation.

If he's not motivated to perform that says more about the man than anything else possibly could.

At any point did I ever claim that Joe wasn't to blame for his seeming lack of motivation? No. You're just debating with yourself there.

False. It's not that the main-event guys are limited, it's the fact they aren't going to bump like fiends for him, which is the only way Joe could ever get over. Go back, and look at all of his best matches in TNA. They will involve Styles, Daniels and Sabin...because those guys were willing to take big bumps for him to make him look good. While I certainly don't wish to derail this thread, the difference between Joe and a guy like John Cena is that Cena can either sell his opponents offense well, or he can carry out the offensive end of the match well. Joe can't. Joe can do one thing and one thing only, and that's dominate his opponent. He's weak in every other category.

People like Steiner can't bump like people like Sabin, thus making them limited. I'm not saying everyone needs to bump like a CZW wrestler on speed, I'm just saying that they can't do as much for Joe the previous guys he wrestled could, thus Joe not looking as good against them and not having as good matches.

That means that they are indeed more limited than the people he was previously wrestling.

I wish Joe would copy Umaga, that way he could learn to be a better wrestler.

You can never beat the original.

 

[Carter121]

As of right now, I cannot take Samoa Joe seriously. His ring attire is just hideous and it doesn't help that he has eaten way too many Twinkies while on his little hiatus. He fails to garner solid fan response anymore. How am i supposed to cheer for a guy who is hellbent on 'torturing every member of the Main Event Mafia'? Nation of violence didnt really do much to Scott Steiner or Sharmell. Look at Joe in 2005 and notice the drastic difference from then and now.