Russo & McMahon: Did They Both Need Each Other?

[Midnite Express 2009]

I was reading a post on here about Hacksaw Jim Duggan slamming Vince Russo. I made a comment & said that I believe Vince & Vince both needed each other, as I feel that neither really had the same success after they parted ways. We all are familiar with Vince Russo's WCW days, and if you're not, just know it's one of the many reasons why WCW isn't around anymore. And we all see how the WWE has changed in the past 15-16 years since the start of the Attitude Era till now. Sure, the way our society is today is vastly different from the way it was in 1997-2000, which is arguably the heyday of the Attitude Era and the Monday Night Wars, even so much that Raw was once called Raw Is War and after the 9/11 attacks, WWE decided to drop the "Is War" portion and went back to Monday Night War.

But notwithstanding, I want to know did Vince McMahon need Vince Russo and vice/versa? I believe they did and below are my reasons why:

Reason One: The Product The product of Monday Night Raw/Raw is War was leaps and bounds better then than it was now. Maybe it was the fact that they knew they could really push the envelope and get away with things on television that they couldn't do now. It could also be due to the fact that really neither had failed at what they were doing at the time. Meaning: They hadn't failed at the Attitude Era so keep it going. Sure, the product featured a lot of swearing by Austin, half naked women like Sable running around and Val Venus constantly talking about his, well you know---but beyond that, you had compelling storylines that carried on for a few years. The emergence of The Rock from Leader of the Nation of Domination, to tweener in the fall of 1998 to back to heel in November when he 1st won the WWF title was classic and it showed the way a heel is developed. It reminds me in some ways of how Daniel Bryan turned last year. It was slow, well thought out and when it finally hit it was like, uh, I like this guy, I don't wanna boo but I know he's a heel. Also, the way that The Undertaker, Kane, Mankind & Austin were all interwoven was fantastic. Vince McMahon can't possibly take ALL the credit for that.

Reason Two: WCW This is the WCW BEFORE Vince Russo appeared. The WCW that was constantly battling the WWF and doing all it could to present an equally entertaining show. The results made WWF do all it could to make sure their product was always that much better. But what WCW had to do with it beyond that was that it freed up a lot of space to have the younger stars. WCW was the home of the established stars, sprinkled with a few Cruiserweights. Beyond that, it was just Goldberg as the homegrown talent. But over in the WWF, you had star after star who had yet reached 35 (and in some cases their 30s) who were busting their asses everyday. I know Jim Ross did a lot of the hiring, but when it came to reasonable and believable storylines, you gotta admit Russo did his fair share to see things through.

Reason Three: The Champions WCW had Goldberg, Hogan, Nash, Hart, DDP, Flair & Sting. Nothing to sneeze at but only three of these guys are Hall of Famers and as for DDP, well he was a friend of Eric Bischoff. This isn't taking anything away from DDP or even Nash (who was also Eric's friend) but this is basically the line-up of World Champions from 1996-1999. Now over in the WWF you had (from the same years) Shawn Michaels, Sid, The Undertaker, Hart, Austin, Kane, Mick Foley & The Rock. All current or future Hall of Famers. What this means is that Vince & Vince knew they had something good on their hands & they made sure they were pushed in the right way. When Russo entered WCW, without McMahon as a filter, the WCW Champions included David Arquette, Jeff Jarrett & Scott Steiner, and also Vince Russo. Sure, McMahon "won" the WWF title, but I truly believe that Russo did it to undermine the titles. Vince did it, well for who knows why? Point is, the title holders were who they were. The matches & title changes were entertaining, and when Russo entered WCW, it failed and we all saw it failing. It was a joke at that time.

So these are some of my reasons, there may be more, so please share. Did they need each other? I'm not saying Russo should come back to WWE. In today's WWE, it would never work. But lemme know. Thanks.

 

[The Proverbial Cheese]

The thing about him is he can either be brilliant or insane. Vince knew how to handle him though, how to find the diamonds in the shit pile. Then he went to WCW and without anyone to oversee him his ideas got too far over the top.

 

[UFOcalling]

The reason why Russo worked so well with WWF's creative team (before jumping to WCW) is because he wasn't the head writer. Everyone acts like they think the Attitude Era's creative team was ONLY Russo & McMahon. I'm not positive how many writers there were, but I don't even think Russo was the head writer (I might be wrong on that, I don't know for sure).

I think people also give McMahon too much credit for the Attitude Era. Anyone who thinks that McMahon was there for every writing session for WWE programming must also believe that Bill Gates writes all his own software. McMahon must have had final say of what went into each show, but I seriously doubt he was there coming up with ideas with the rest of the team. I'd have to imagine (but I have no way of knowing for sure) that the scripts were written by the team, then sent to McMahon to "tweak" or approve as he saw fit. McMahon might have tweaked a few ideas here and there, but I think the team did the majority of the work.

When Russo & Ferrara came to WCW, I think they were given complete creative control. I don't know if that's the case, but I think that's what happened. When two guys like that are able to write whatever they want, of course they're going to make fun of JR's bells palsy and see how much they can get away with. I think they knew some of the things they knew were horrible, but just wrote whatever they felt like just to see if it would get on the air...and it did. Those guys didn't care, because they were getting HUGE amounts of money for whatever they came up with.

At least when Russo ended up with TNA his ego had been deflated a bit, at least I'd have to think so. He started to write as best as he could again, instead of just pandering to the "stars" he felt deserved it - or to himself. I think he knew he had to prove himself - whether or not he ever did that is beyond me. Russo became synonymous with "Horrible Wrestling" after WCW folded, and became the scapegoat for every bad decision that TNA made/did. I think Russo did have some great ideas in the past, but also some bad ones. It's too bad that WCW gave him the deal they did, since that just inflated his ego and allowed him to do whatever he wanted to do.

 

[asiatic7]

The thing about him is he can either be brilliant or insane. Vince knew how to handle him though, how to find the diamonds in the shit pile. Then he went to WCW and without anyone to oversee him his ideas got too far over the top.

Yes, I've heard this before. Vince McMahon played the filter to a lot of Russo's idea's. McMahon gave the green light some of the ideas and toned down or turned up others. And I also agree with the poster above me too, Russo wasn't the only guy besides McMahon writing the shows. Pat Patterson and the guy that played Brother Love (I can't remember his name right now) were also on the writing team.

I think Russo's ideas worked because they were new and adult themed and have'nt been done before. Vince gave Russo his blessings to do these things when he saw the RAW magazine cover with Goldust and Marlena semi nude on the cover. McMahon thought that was the direction he company should be going. Yes it was Russo's idea to shoot the cover since he was the editor at the time (Vic Venom was his name), but it was Vince who gave the idea the go-ahead.

Russo left WWF because he was burned out from writing all the time and McMahon didn't give him time off to be with his wife and baby, so he went to WcW and then came the downfall. I think WcW was anxious to win the Monday Night Wars again and figured Russo's ideas brought WWF back to life, so he could do the same for them...wrong. He didn't have a Vince McMahon to look over his shoulder while he was writing and Russo let his ego get the best of him. I think one of the worst things he did was make himself an on air personality. His ego allowed himself to be a fixture on tv and a former WcW champion.

Russo definitley needed Vince McMahon, and during the late ninetey's McMahon needed Russo. I don't think Russo can be an asset to any company now. At best, I think he is a one trick pony who gets too much credit for WWF's success in the Attitude Era.

 

[braveh]

According to Vince Russo himself he:

*he was the one to convince the writing team to focus on Steve Austin and to make 3:16 his catchphrase

*he was the one who wrote Rock's promos, came up with the "Rock says" catchphrase

*he was the one who wanted the Vince Mcmahon interview on Raw the day after the Montreal screwjob

If all of those are true he was remarkably important for the Attitude era

 

[IT Factor]

I think that no one singlehandedly made the "attitude era" a success. You had a team of writers of which Russo was a part of. And you had McMahon as the leader of the helm. When you put people into their rightful positions, things will work. WCW after Russo took over was the prime example of that. He failed because there was no McMahon there to keep some of his outrageous ideas in check and challenge him. I will say this; Russo did have some good ideas in WCW. I don't think people realize what his vision was, which made things worse. It did seem as if Russo wanted to give younger guys a chance, which was an upside.

So, yeah. They both needed each other to keep coming up with ideas. They made each other better than their collective selves.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

I don't think Vince needs Russo, but I definitely think Russo needs someone to oversee him, and noone did that better than Vince McMahon.

Vince Russo is extremely creative, always has been but alot of his ideas are absolutely horrendous. However, in between the mounds of utter crap that he comes up with, is the occasional gem. With Vince McMahon having the final say on all Russo's ideas, he was smart enough to pick out the good ideas, and discard alot of the garbage. Russo may have preferred some of the ideas that McMahon dismissed, but alot of the ones the WWE went with during their time working together were great, so it does show that with the right people around him, Russo can come up with some good ideas.

But, when he went to WCW and had noone around to reign him in, Russo's ego was out of control and he just went with whatever he came up with, thinking that he was untouchable and a bonafide genius. So many of the things he came up with in WCW, including putting himself as an on-screen character and then as the champion, giving the belt to David Arquette etc were terrible and there was noone there to say "hold on Vince, this is shit!".

The WWE has managed to live on without Russo, but without McMahon to give the final verdict on his ideas, Vince Russo has never achieved the success he did in WWE, and now has a terrible reputation as a booker with fans.

 

[Mustang Sally]

But, when he went to WCW and had noone around to reign him in, Russo's ego was out of control and he just went with whatever he came up with, thinking that he was untouchable and a bonafide genius.

It reminds me of that old quotation: "When the gods wish to punish us, they make us believe our own advertising." Russo heard some great things written and spoken about him due to much of the admittedly fine work he did in WWE...... and he went nuts, believing in it fully.

There's no denying he came up with some great ideas, but it apparently led him to believe he was a nation unto himself; that he did it all alone. Those of us who work in jobs that require a united effort to put together a product or service will be reminded of the person in our midst who thinks they're head and tails above the rest of us; indispensable at what they do and capable of running the whole show themselves if need be.

Presuming that's what happened to Vince Russo, one can see why he couldn't resist the notion of inserting himself into the on-air product at WCW.....and even installing himself as champion. It's the kind of mistake people with an insatiable ego often make.

Let's not say he was never any good in the first place. He was good......just simply not as good as he thought. A capable worker, not a visionary. Apparently, he came to believe that anything he did would be an enormous success.......after all, am I not Vince Russo? It's an old story and all of us have had experience with people like that. It's just that most of them don't have the stage to work on that Russo did.

 

[Wald]

Russo wasn't a good writer. He was able to read that society in the late 90s was becoming a lot more open and risque and convinced McMahon to go that route, but actually go back and look at some of the absolute turds that the attitude era had.

I'm not just talking Val Venis getting his penis chopped off by that Japanese stable, most of the storylines from then were garbage. The whole show was centered around Austin (as well it should have been) and a load of people got 'pretend over' because of him. I say pretend over because they weren't really over, the crowds were so amped up because of Austin that cheered and booed absolutely everything. Go back and listen to the reaction that the Oddities get and compare it with the reaction anyone that isn't Cena, Punk, Jericho and Bryan got on last week's WWE programming. Do you really think the Oddities were that much more over on merit?

The best thing McMahon did to win that ratings war was have that sit down talk with the roster that Mick Foley talked about, the one where he said he was open to the wrestler's own ideas about where they should go. From that we got DX, Stone Cold, the Rock, Mankind's new direction, biker Taker and number of things that helped WWF defeat WCW. Russo was very much secondary to that

 

[Owen 3:16 says I just stole your Slammy!!]

I think McMahon and Russo do need each other. When Russo was the main writer on Raw, the show was at it's hottest point and it was entertaining. Maybe McMahon filtered Russo, but Russo made some great moments in WWF history. I don't put most blame on Russo for WCW, The company was on a decline before he got there. Also, the brass at WCW wanted a script two weeks before the live show. Every week the brass at WCW changed their minds about what and not what to say or do. And the WCW brass wanted to make the company PG after years of successful doing anything they want from 1995-1998. That's how Bischoff got fucked and was forced to leave for couple of months. But some of his idea's like him winning the title and Arquette winning the title was stupid idea's.

 

[braveh]

Russo wasn't a good writer. He was able to read that society in the late 90s was becoming a lot more open and risque and convinced McMahon to go that route, but actually go back and look at some of the absolute turds that the attitude era had.

I'm not just talking Val Venis getting his penis chopped off by that Japanese stable, most of the storylines from then were garbage. The whole show was centered around Austin (as well it should have been) and a load of people got 'pretend over' because of him. I say pretend over because they weren't really over, the crowds were so amped up because of Austin that cheered and booed absolutely everything. Go back and listen to the reaction that the Oddities get and compare it with the reaction anyone that isn't Cena, Punk, Jericho and Bryan got on last week's WWE programming. Do you really think the Oddities were that much more over on merit?

The best thing McMahon did to win that ratings war was have that sit down talk with the roster that Mick Foley talked about, the one where he said he was open to the wrestler's own ideas about where they should go. From that we got DX, Stone Cold, the Rock, Mankind's new direction, biker Taker and number of things that helped WWF defeat WCW. Russo was very much secondary to that

Just a note, I haven't read all accounts but from what I gather:
The whole concept of gimmicks based on wrestlers real life personality was Russo's idea. He sat down with HBK and thought he was like sleazy porn star and from that he created D Generation-X, Russo was the one who advocated for Austin's 3:16 gimmick, Russo wrote the first promo where Rock said "the Rock says" and he created that arrogant gimmick, he was probably behind Mankind's new direction because he was in charge at that time.

Basically Russo was behind everything "shocking" and "real" in the attitude era.