[Rumor] Major Changes to TNA's Product & Identity Being Discussed Internally

[Remix]

Bullshit. They regularly draw between 1000-2500 fans to their big shows, which is A) much larger than the Impact Zone, and B) Just as large as alot of TNA's PPV and house show attendances. Fuck ROH has outdrawn TNA when they've gone head to head in the same city before. TNA is slightly larger, yes, but not by nearly as large of a margin as you and others seem to think.

TNA showd don't draw for shit. That's pretty well established. Hell, Tommy Dreamer and his gang of old ECW guys sold out an arena TNA couldn't. However, if we take into account the million odd fans who watch iMPACT in the USA, the hundred thousand or so who watch in the UK (and the money that TNA make from that show) it's not an unreasomable comment to say that TNA is a considerably bigger company.

LOL you think TNA get's 10,000 buys per PPV? No way man, not with the HORRID advertising and hyping they do for their PPVs, the usually shit cards they provide, and the terrible numbers they've been doing for PPVs regularly for the last few years.

Wouldn't be shocked. If the worst WWE PPV in terms of buys (and arguably quality) can get 90,000 buys, I see no reason why an average TNA PPV can't get at least a ninth of that. And X, can you point me to those "terrible numbers" that TNA have published? I mean, it's not like TNA officially release any PPV numbers, other than the joke Slammiversary ones.

But again, I point you to attendance. TNA is lucky to draw maybe one or two thousand more people to their shows than ROH regularly does. Not exactly a world of difference, is it? Especially when you consider the massive amount of free tickets TNA gives out.

Outside of the iMPACT zone, and when they put a PPV in an area that's not got much disposible income, when do TNA give out free tickets in large numbers?

1) Never said shit about TNA bringing in ROH names or doing an invasion angle. I didn't bring that idea up.

Neither did I. You mentioned that most of the "TNA guys" were originally "ROH guys". I agreed with you.

All I did was address someone who was acting like the TNA and ROH fanbases are vastly different, which they aren't, at all. Same demographic, same hardcore wrestling fans, same smarks who chant "Fire Russo!" all the time. I didn't say shit about bringing in ROH names.

And smarky bastards are the guys who originally started the anti-Cena chants, but nobody can seriously make a case for smarks making up the majority of the WWE audience. The iMPACT zone itself is smarky as hell, and that's part of the reason TNA needs to get the fuck out of there, but I doubt that the majority of TNA's viewership is.

2) ROH most certainly is turning a profit. I don't know what you're basing the belief that they aren't on. They have a low overhead and have been turning a profit pretty much every year since 2004. Which, if you're counting, is longer than TNA has been turning a profit by the way.

Tyler Black says otherwise. But what would he know about the state of ROH's finances while he was there?

 

[X]

TNA showd don't draw for shit. That's pretty well established. Hell, Tommy Dreamer and his gang of old ECW guys sold out an arena TNA couldn't. However, if we take into account the million odd fans who watch iMPACT in the USA, the hundred thousand or so who watch in the UK (and the money that TNA make from that show) it's not an unreasomable comment to say that TNA is a considerably bigger company.

Certainly not as larger of a company as you tried to make them out to be. Saying ROH doesn't do 1/4 of the business TNA does is BS. Fuck CZW does better than that. TNA is not some global juggernaut of industry like the WWE is, which was basically my entire point.

Wouldn't be shocked. If the worst WWE PPV in terms of buys (and arguably quality) can get 90,000 buys, I see no reason why an average TNA PPV can't get at least a ninth of that. And X, can you point me to those "terrible numbers" that TNA have published? I mean, it's not like TNA officially release any PPV numbers, other than the joke Slammiversary ones.

Wrestling news outlets have many times gotten rough estimates of TNA's PPV numbers directly from the cable companies themselves, who people seem to forget (obviously) have access to the number of buys and don't really mind sharing it either. Buy an Observer or Torch subscription and scour the back issues to see what I'm talking about, reports come out frequently about TNA PPV estimates and they're never very good.

Outside of the iMPACT zone, and when they put a PPV in an area that's not got much disposible income, when do TNA give out free tickets in large numbers?

Not often when it comes to when they actually go out of the Impact Zone. That's the problem though Remix---they never fucking leave the Impact Zone. They tape 99% of their TV and PPVs there and only travel out to tape in different cities a few times a year, max. Fuck half the people you see in the front row of the Impact Zone every week are plants to begin with (as if they're fooling ANYBODY with those same 3-4 models who are in the front row every single week right in front of the camera.)

Neither did I. You mentioned that most of the "TNA guys" were originally "ROH guys". I agreed with you.

Then why are you responding to my posts, trying to argue with me about the demographics that make up ROH and TNA's fanbases?

And smarky bastards are the guys who originally started the anti-Cena chants, but nobody can seriously make a case for smarks making up the majority of the WWE audience.

I can't? Because Cena gets booed to shit EVERY SINGLE CITY HE GOES TO. Across the US. And he has been getting that reaction for the last 5-6 years. Everytime Cena comes out it's a dueling "Let's go Cena!" "Cena sucks!" pair of chants, and every single time the "Cena sucks!" chants are FAR louder than the "Let's go Cena" chants.

WWE obviously has a large kid demographic as well, but just as it has ALWAYS been, the core audience of the WWE (and ANY wrestling company) is the adult male demographic. Which, 99% of the time, is all a "smark" is these days. An adult male wrestling fan who still watches because he loves wrestling, and who boo the shit out of guys like Cena for not being as technically sound as an Jericho or Benoit.

The iMPACT zone itself is smarky as hell, and that's part of the reason TNA needs to get the fuck out of there, but I doubt that the majority of TNA's viewership is.

Then you're being delusional. Who do you think watches TNA? Definitely not kids. Definitely not casual wrestling fans. Hardcore wrestling fans make up their fanbase, and have ALWAYS made up their fanbase. They built their company on catering to smarks, and the audience remains the same. It's not like the entire TNA fanbase just up and left the minute Hogan showed up and were replaced by a few million kids and "casual fans".

Fuck you basically have to be a smark to even know TNA exists Remix. They don't have the publicity of a WWE, they don't make headlines on TMZ or have guest spots on the Tonight Show. They're on a much smaller and much less watched network than the WWE is, so to even know they exist you'd have to be enough of a hardcore wrestling fan to seek out alternatives to the WWE in the first place. Most "casual wrestling fans" don't even know TNA exists dude.

Tyler Black says otherwise. But what would he know about the state of ROH's finances while he was there?

Where has Tyler Black ever said that ROH was unprofitable? I'd like to see that. And for that matter, how the fuck would he know? Last I checked his name wasn't Cary Silkin.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

TNA is NOT an internationally known brand. My girlfriend or really anyone who isn't a wrestling fan doesn't know what the hell you're talking about if you say you watched TNA.

Upping the "attitude and intensity" in TNA is exactly what they've been trying to do. They look like a cheap attitude era nostalgia show.

TNA is screwed. If you go the opposite of WWE, you'll be less popular and more like ROH, which isn't what they want, they want to get bigger. If you act like the WWE, you'll look like diet WWE. They really have nowhere to go if they want to get bigger. This is as big as they can possibly get.

For the guy above, Cena doesn't get "booed to shit" that's a perception you have that's wrong. go to a live event, it's a small vocal group that boos.

TNA isn't a shitstain on WWE's underwear right now. I went to Lockdown this year, which was outside St. Louis, a large city and one of their marquee PPVs, they drew around 4,000. I also went to a road to wrestlemania WWE HOUSE SHOW in springfield, MO (town of maybe 200K) and it outdrew the TNA show.

One of TNA's biggest PPVs of the year, in the largest metroplex in Missouri drew LESS than a WWE HOUSE SHOW in a small town in bumblefuck Missouri.


As for TNA vs ROH, I bet if ROH had the financial resources (millionaire willing to blow tons of money) and a TV channel, they'd have similar numbers across the board, probably even better because ROH isn't as trashy and has more variety and logic most of the time. Plus they would have been able to keep Joe and not screw him over once they ran out of ideas.

If they want to do a NWO style story have some sort of partnership with ROH. Have ROH invade TNA and start having regular TNA guys at ROH events. If you do that perhaps ROH could get a TV deal with Spike on a seperate night from TNA. Imagine the top ROH guys invading like Hall and Nash and confront Anderson/Sting and say we will show you wrestling.

What a terrible idea this is. "we'll show you wrestling?" Yea, cater to 12 people, that's going to work.

Look, WWE wins on name brand alone. Like I said in my example, a WWE house show, in a much smaller city, outdrew one of TNAs biggest PPVs in a large city. I bet if you put WWE on the marquee, it'd increase the numbers of ANY show. It's like this. Pretend you're in the mall foodcourt. Who has the longest line? Taco Bell or the mom and pop taco place? Taco Bell right. Now imagine that the mom and pop place sucks, Taco Bell wins even more right? That's WWE, and mom and pop is TNA, sucking like a mofo.

 

[Remix]

Certainly not as larger of a company as you tried to make them out to be. Saying ROH doesn't do 1/4 of the business TNA does is BS. Fuck CZW does better than that. TNA is not some global juggernaut of industry like the WWE is, which was basically my entire point.

In terms of attendence, no it isn't 4 times more popular than ROH. In terms of being watched and known of by people, it is more than four times more popular.

Global juggernaut, no. Global company, yes. ROH may do the occasional international tour (do they?) but the core of their small fanbase is in a few states which are known for having "smarky" fans. TNA might get no buys from places like the UK, but they still make money from the shows seeing as Sky have to pay for it.

Wrestling news outlets have many times gotten rough estimates of TNA's PPV numbers directly from the cable companies themselves, who people seem to forget (obviously) have access to the number of buys and don't really mind sharing it either. Buy an Observer or Torch subscription and scour the back issues to see what I'm talking about, reports come out frequently about TNA PPV estimates and they're never very good.

And until I see actual numbers from the company, I'll continue to assume that those "estimates" coming from anonymous sources are bullshit.

Not often when it comes to when they actually go out of the Impact Zone. That's the problem though Remix---they never fucking leave the Impact Zone. They tape 99% of their TV and PPVs there and only travel out to tape in different cities a few times a year, max.

Unfortunately. Wasn't the Lockdown Sly went to mostly unpapered though? I remember the turnout not being great, but I think most of the fans paid to get in.

Fuck half the people you see in the front row of the Impact Zone every week are plants to begin with (as if they're fooling ANYBODY with those same 3-4 models who are in the front row every single week right in front of the camera.)

I though the guys in the front row were the ***** like the Cancer Crew who show up there every week to show off what dicks they are. Also, knowing how TNA loves to spend money on stupid shit like the chick from Jersey Shore that nobody cares about, I wouldn't be shocked if TNA did pay for certain audience members to make the audience look pretty.

Then why are you responding to my posts, trying to argue with me about the demographics that make up ROH and TNA's fanbases?

Because when I said "ROH guys" I meant the wrestlers, not the fans. i.e. Shelley Styles and Samoa Joe were examples of the ROH guys I was talking about.

I can't? Because Cena gets booed to shit EVERY SINGLE CITY HE GOES TO. Across the US. And he has been getting that reaction for the last 5-6 years. Everytime Cena comes out it's a dueling "Let's go Cena!" "Cena sucks!" pair of chants, and every single time the "Cena sucks!" chants are FAR louder than the "Let's go Cena" chants.

And it's gotten to the point now where the deuling chants have stopped being about Cena sucking and being about being "cool" originally, it was the "smarkish" thing to do. But now it's like chanting "you suck" in time to Kurt Angle's WWE theme.

Adult males can shout louder than kids and are in greater numbers than females.

WWE obviously has a large kid demographic as well, but just as it has ALWAYS been, the core audience of the WWE (and ANY wrestling company) is the adult male demographic. Which, 99% of the time, is all a "smark" is these days. An adult male wrestling fan who still watches because he loves wrestling, and who boo the shit out of guys like Cena for not being as technically sound as an Jericho or Benoit.

Then why the hell does Miz not get "you can't wrestle" chants? The IWC (and regular fas) started turned on Cena back when he was feuding with Angle. However, as time passed the chants just became the "cool thing" Notice how whenever his music plays there's a pop and the deuling chants don't start until afterwards? That's because even the guys who chant Cena Sucks pop for him and don't start doing the obligatory "Anti-Cena bullshit until later on.

Then you're being delusional. Who do you think watches TNA? Definitely not kids. Definitely not casual wrestling fans. Hardcore wrestling fans make up their fanbase, and have ALWAYS made up their fanbase. They built their company on catering to smarks, and the audience remains the same. It's not like the entire TNA fanbase just up and left the minute Hogan showed up and were replaced by a few million kids and "casual fans".

So, there are a million odd smarks watching TNA are there? So why aren't those million odd smarks buying ROH iPPVs? I mean the stereotypical smark loves ROH because it's full of wrestling. But yet, it's losing DVD sales and getting a thousand buys for their iPPVs.

Fuck you basically have to be a smark to even know TNA exists Remix. They don't have the publicity of a WWE, they don't make headlines on TMZ or have guest spots on the Tonight Show. They're on a much smaller and much less watched network than the WWE is, so to even know they exist you'd have to be enough of a hardcore wrestling fan to seek out alternatives to the WWE in the first place. Most "casual wrestling fans" don't even know TNA exists dude.

See: issues with a million smarks watching TNA but not ROH.

Where has Tyler Black ever said that ROH was unprofitable? I'd like to see that.

Here ya go.

In fact he even postulates on why.

And for that matter, how the fuck would he know? Last I checked his name wasn't Cary Silkin.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

So, you're implying that employees don't know when their company's in dire straights, and that wrestlers in contract negotiations can't find out what the company can't afford for them?

He may not have the ballance books of ROH, but he sure as hell had a better picture of the state of ROH's finances than we do.

 

[X]

In terms of attendence, no it isn't 4 times more popular than ROH. In terms of being watched and known of by people, it is more than four times more popular.

And you're basing this on what?

Global juggernaut, no. Global company, yes. ROH may do the occasional international tour (do they?) but the core of their small fanbase is in a few states which are known for having "smarky" fans. TNA might get no buys from places like the UK, but they still make money from the shows seeing as Sky have to pay for it.

ROH has gone to Japan, the UK, and Germany many times Remix. They drew something like 10,000 in Japan. Sounds like a pretty strong fanbase.

And until I see actual numbers from the company, I'll continue to assume that those "estimates" coming from anonymous sources are bullshit.

They aren't anonymous, I just told you where the estimates are coming from---the cable companies. You know, the people who you have to contact in order to even buy the PPV in the first place?

And it's gotten to the point now where the deuling chants have stopped being about Cena sucking and being about being "cool" originally, it was the "smarkish" thing to do. But now it's like chanting "you suck" in time to Kurt Angle's WWE theme.

That's an incredibly silly theory Remix. Cena's music doesn't have the pauses that Angle's theme did that started the whole "You Suck" thing. Cena gets booed because people don't fucking like him, not because it's fun to chant "You suck!" or some excuse like that. Cena gets booed to shit everywhere while guys like Punk, Danielson, and Orton get big pops and their names chanted constantly through out their matches. An audience of "casual wrestling fans" wouldn't be doing that.

Adult males can shout louder than kids and are in greater numbers than females.

So you agree then that adult males make up a greater number of the fanbase then? Well there you go. 99% of adult male wrestling fans are smarks. They wouldn't still be watching something as disrespected and seen as being childish as wrestling is if they weren't.

Then why the hell does Miz not get "you can't wrestle" chants? The IWC (and regular fas) started turned on Cena back when he was feuding with Angle. However, as time passed the chants just became the "cool thing" Notice how whenever his music plays there's a pop and the deuling chants don't start until afterwards? That's because even the guys who chant Cena Sucks pop for him and don't start doing the obligatory "Anti-Cena bullshit until later on.

Because smarks don't hate The Miz? At all? They did 3 years ago. Now they fucking love the guy and they have for quite awhile now, Miz has become an IWC darling over the last few years thanks to his mic work, fuck I remember the OUTRAGE all over the IWC when Miz jobbed to Cena a few years back in their feud in 2009. Miz doesn't appeal to children, so why would the smarks boo him? He's getting bigger face pops currently than Cena has in a long time.

So, there are a million odd smarks watching TNA are there? So why aren't those million odd smarks buying ROH iPPVs? I mean the stereotypical smark loves ROH because it's full of wrestling. But yet, it's losing DVD sales and getting a thousand buys for their iPPVs.

They're only losing DVD sales because they put out an INSANE amount of shows on DVD, it's the same exact reason the WWE is losing PPV buys. Are you going to argue that WWE isn't successful because their PPV buys keep plummeting? Losing DVD/PPV sales does not mean your company isn't profitable.

And a thousand buys for an iPPV is actually damned impressive Remix, considering how new and little known of a medium it is. You also have to remember that ROH fans, being IWC smarks, can easily download all of these iPPVs and DVDs as soon as they're released, online, for free. Piracy has been a big problem for the ROH iPPVs so far because of that.

Here ya go.

In fact he even postulates on why.

Lol, seriously? Some random, non descriptive question to Tyler Black on Formspring is your evidence that ROH isn't profitable? Not exactly hard evidence, is it? Pretty sure that's what we call "hearsay".

So, you're implying that employees don't know when their company's in dire straights, and that wrestlers in contract negotiations can't find out what the company can't afford for them?

Where did Tyler Black say the company was in "dire straits" in that little Formspring question Remix? He didn't. And no actually, just being the champion of a promotion and being in contract negotiations with them does not in any way give you an in-depth knowledge of the company's financial situation. If ROH is in dire straits, then why do they keep expanding out to new areas, holding more shows, and bringing in new talent? The company is fine, and Cary Silkin (the owner, who would actually know about their finances unlike Tyler) has said they've been turning a profit for several, several years now. It's not hard to turn a profit when you have very little expenses like ROH do.

He may not have the ballance books of ROH, but he sure as hell had a better picture of the state of ROH's finances than we do.

I think I'm going to take Cary Silkin's word over Tyler Black's thanks.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

My God, some people make this so complicated. It's simple -- put on a quality show, create legit stars mixed with familiar faces, and create a buzz. If you create a buzz, nationwide and/or all over the world, among all wrestling fans, viewership will increase.

Merchandise, action figures, they're already making a profit...blah, blah, blah. People dig so deep into this kind of conversation, and complicate the shit out of it to avoid the truth. If people thought TNA was putting on a great show, or putting out a great product, they would watch. Period.

Everything a wrestling company puts out there (toys, DVD's, PPV's, t-shirts, etc.) sells based on television viewership, having a fan base. It's all about watching the show. If people don't watch your television show, which is the most important thing to your company, no question, they aren't going to buy anything else (PPV's, DVD's, etc). Stop making this so complicated.

Changing the name of the company? Why? Wrestling fans know what TNA is, they absolutely have name recognition. Changing the name is like putting a band-aid on a gun shot wound. Why aren't they watching? Several reasons, I would guess. However, if you put on a good, quality show, people will watch. That's how it works. When the show sucks, and that's what the majority opinion is, people are, A. Not going to give it a chance, or B. Stop watching. It's simple stuff people, and I wish the marks would stop attempting to complicate the issue to avoid the truth.

 

[Papa Pillman]

I would be in favor of a name change if...

Dixie's dad shelled out whatever the monetary number is that would be necessary to buy all rights to the NWA name. The NWA initials are important because it is the only national wrestling promotion that the average wrestling fan connects with that isn't owned by Vince.

They could officially re-brand the company as Non-stop Wrestling Action. The champ would become the new "NWA" champ.

NWA is recognizable and doesn't carry the negative stigma of TNA. Yet, for a TNA purist it would be made more palatable by the fact that the name would stay similar, while also harkening back to continuency, since TNA started as an NWA promotion.

After doing that, they then need to work on the direction. First they need to figure out what is working right now(because unlike most others here I enjoy alot of the current product) and keep it. Next, I agree with focusing the product more on wrestling, in light of the fact that Vince is moving away from the conotations of wrestling, and then build an ad-campaign around the fact that they are the only world-wide "wrestling" company left on national television.

 

[manstis1804]

Their roster is far superior to WWE's

I can never get behind that quote which everyone throws around even though its just not true. TNA has a lot of shitty wrestlers. Guys like Rob Terry, Gunner, Murphy, Abyss, Hernandez...pretty much all their big men outside of Matt Morgan are awful. Their top talents are AJ Styles, Robert Roode, James T. Storm, Daniels, MCMGs, and Samoa Joe (who is borderline these days), in terms of the best overall workers.

In comparison, WWE is stacked with guys like CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Christian, John Morrison, Sin Cara, Cody Rhodes, Jack Swagger, Rey Mysterio, Dolph Ziggler, Sheamus, not to mention great vets like Jericho, Goldust and Regal...all these people TNA would love to have and are superior workers to TNA's main event crew of Mr. Anderson and (2011) RVD and (2011) Sting. WWE has a lot more potential on their roster than TNA, and the current talent levels to me show WWE with an edge.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

How is TNA's roster superior? Pro wrestling isn't about craming a million gymnastic flips into a match, it's about getting over. TNA wants to get over in front of as many people as possible, most of the TNA roster doesn't emote or tell stories, they just do flips. that's not going to get you over.

As for the cena thing, booing Cena IS like chanting "you suck" at angle. Only abou 20-30% of the audience boos him and because so many people want him to turn heel (so they can cheer him, go figure) kind of proves that they like it. They LIKE to boo him. It's fun. Even Bryan Alvarez, one of the head smarks says that.

TNA will never be as big as TNA if for no other reason than name recognition.

 

[rge2010]

Rayne;3020341 - The big one, however- if TNA wants to grow, a simple rebranding isn't going to have to do it. Growth requires hard cash; cash to buy talent with, and I don't mean wrestlers who can't make wellness checks in the WWE, I mean hard cash with which to poach big name stars like Ortons, Punks, or Edges. (Regardless of what any wrestler has said online, they all work for the money. If the price is right, anyone would jump ship.


I read your post, you made some excellent points but I gotta draw issue with this. TNA cannot possibly do this. TNA needs to work with with what they have and grow that way.

For TNA to poach Randy Orton they would have to pay him around $2m a year PLUS PPV bonuses. You think Styles, Joe, Angle etc are just gunna sit back while Orton swans into a company earning MUCH more money? There would be a mutiny, plain and simple. Knockouts earn $200 a show!

Secondly, no, not everyone works for money. Kurt Angle was on way more in WWE than he is in TNA - he left by his own choosing. Sting would earn way more signing for WWE. Sting has turned down WWE time and time again.

The fact is not one superstar has left WWE for TNA in regards to money. Its being about the lighter schedule (Angle), sacked (Anderson), fell out with management (Lashley) more exposure (M Hardy - figure that one out) or so they can do drugs (J Hardy).

So good points, but that just wouldnt work. You would need the Sultan of Brunai for that to actually work. And didnt WCW do that anyway? Hogan, Nash, Hall, Savage, Hart all jumped ship...how did that end with Ted Turners backing?

 

[Rayne]

I read your post, you made some excellent points but I gotta draw issue with this. TNA cannot possibly do this. TNA needs to work with with what they have and grow that way.

For TNA to poach Randy Orton they would have to pay him around $2m a year PLUS PPV bonuses. You think Styles, Joe, Angle etc are just gunna sit back while Orton swans into a company earning MUCH more money? There would be a mutiny, plain and simple. Knockouts earn $200 a show!

There'd be a mutiny, and? The big players are under contract, and their options should they not like their deal is to sit out until they could get a better deal from someone else. That someone else being the WWE, if the WWE has no interest in them, it doesn't matter what a wrestler thinks about someone else getting paid.

Sure, feathers will get ruffled. What are they going to do, half ass it on camera and convince everyone who'd hire them that they'll sandbag on you if you don't make them happy?

Secondly, no, not everyone works for money. Kurt Angle was on way more in WWE than he is in TNA - he left by his own choosing. Sting would earn way more signing for WWE. Sting has turned down WWE time and time again.

The fact is not one superstar has left WWE for TNA in regards to money. Its being about the lighter schedule (Angle), sacked (Anderson), fell out with management (Lashley) more exposure (M Hardy - figure that one out) or so they can do drugs (J Hardy).

I never said money was the only motivating factor. But it's one that almost always wins out if you offer up enough of it. If the WWE offered Kurt Angle a significantly larger paycheck, he'd jump on back; same with any of those guys. The question is not "can the WWE offer more money", the question is, "how much money is it worth to each guy to work our schedule vs. how much are they worth to us?"

It's not like a John Cena would just up and walk into the Impact Zone because TNA outbid the WWE on his services by $20 and a steak dinner. This is hard money, hard risk we're talking about. But if TNA is after rapid growth over the course of a couple years, versus a slow climb to equivalence with the WWE over the course of over a decade, that's the only path TNA has- poach what the WWE made and use it to take their place. It's exactly the formula WCW used to overtake the WWF back in the '90's.


What would be far more costly to TNA than wrestler salaries would be the cost of advertising. Advertising is freakin' expensive, but it's expensive because it works. If you tell people repeatedly about TNA on Spike TV, through enough outlets that they are hearing your message a few times a day, people will tune into Impact. I'm also not sure how prepared TNA is to do broadcasts on the road. Taping on tour is a step they need to have done years ago; it's a totally different product when you get people that paid $20-$100 to get in to a once-a-year-maybe affair, versus when you have a couple hundred jaded smarks and tourists on vacation who can see the show every week. There are significant startup costs to a road show- purchasing the trucks that can transport your stage setup, hiring the road crew to assemble it, paying insurance at each stop in case their road crew is incompetent and Owen Harts someone, hotel costs, Kurt Angle's bail, Jeff Hardy's tab with some guy named "Shakey", and so many other incidental costs. Poaching the talent wouldn't be cheap, but I think of the three key things they'd need for rapid growth, it would actually be the cheapest short term. More troubling would be the long-term implications of rising wrestler salaries amongst the price war that would likely break out.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

According to a report by Dave Meltzer, there's serious backstage discussion with the brass of TNA & Spike TV about changing the name of the company.

Meltzer's sources say that the brass feel that the name of the company is a major hindurance holding the company back. Meltzer reports that the two top names being tossed around at this point are Impact Pro Wrestling & Pro Wrestling Impact.

The strategy, according to Meltzer's report, is that TNA wants to prominently tout the "pro wrestling" moniker as opposed to the WWE as they no longer want to be known as simply a wrestling company. There isn't any word on whether the name change means a change in the actual product.

I dunno, I just think that this is just an example of TNA focusing on minor aspects rather than the actual problems. TNA is still stuck in the Impact Zone, which makes them look minor league, and Vince Russo is creatively bankrupt at this point. A minor cosmetic alteration of the company isn't going to bring fans in drove to watching it each week.

 

[Dizzy]

According to a report by Dave Meltzer, there's serious backstage discussion with the brass of TNA & Spike TV about changing the name of the company.

Meltzer's sources say that the brass feel that the name of the company is a major hindurance holding the company back. Meltzer reports that the two top names being tossed around at this point are Impact Pro Wrestling & Pro Wrestling Impact.

The strategy, according to Meltzer's report, is that TNA wants to prominently tout the "pro wrestling" moniker as opposed to the WWE as they no longer want to be known as simply a wrestling company. There isn't any word on whether the name change means a change in the actual product.

I dunno, I just think that this is just an example of TNA focusing on minor aspects rather than the actual problems. TNA is still stuck in the Impact Zone, which makes them look minor league, and Vince Russo is creatively bankrupt at this point. A minor cosmetic alteration of the company isn't going to bring fans in drove to watching it each week.

I agree but it's simply pressing the re-start button and using that as a reason to change the company's product and overall look.

You can't expect TNA to change their product over night and not have a legit televised reason right?

Changing the name means restarting the company. The good news here is Spike and TNA are looking to really change their product to embrace wrestling first.

Russo is another example of a reason to change the product. TNA is so full of smarts from fans to TV angles, It would be hard to fire anyone well known without giving a legit reason.

This should be the start of something fresh.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Eh, frankly I don't see the value in this. The company is already established with the TNA name that's been built on for the last 8+ years. Changing it now would be costly (especially when you consider they'd have to rebrand every one of their championships), and I'm just not entirely sold that the idea would actually bring much profit to the company, at least not in the short-term.

If you want to be focues on wrestling, is it really that important that it be a part of the acronym values? Is TNA Wrestling that bad?

p.s. I-P-W chants a lot easier than P-W-I. Besides, PWI is too well-known for Pro Wreslting Illustrated, no?

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

So, TNA wants to be more mainstream and challenge WWE but they're going backwards and emphasizing pro wrestling?

To me, there are 2 sides of the spectrum. You can either be glitzy and entertainy (not even a word?) like the WWE and sell out 10k seat arenas or you can be gritty and underground and work in front of 1,000 fans in a gym. TNA is in the middle, and they're kinda in the middle as far as drawing ability. However, they're not very good at either being gritty or entertaining. Just kinda there.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

So, TNA wants to be more mainstream and challenge WWE but they're going backwards and emphasizing pro wrestling?

To me, there are 2 sides of the spectrum. You can either be glitzy and entertainy (not even a word?) like the WWE and sell out 10k seat arenas or you can be gritty and underground and work in front of 1,000 fans in a gym. TNA is in the middle, and they're kinda in the middle as far as drawing ability. However, they're not very good at either being gritty or entertaining. Just kinda there.

I would like to add something to your rather moronic statement. WWF was built on being gritty and underground-y. Hello, Attitude Era? Did that shit look glitzy to you? No it didn't. It was rough, it was awesome, it was simply good. The only reason why it's glitzy now is to sway the simple minded ones into thinking that the product they produce out of their bowels is something more than a fine selection of various kinds of dung. Strip it down, ignore the gliztiness and you'll find yourself looking at a very weak, bromidic, lazy, emotionless product binded in the shackles of "PG" and Vince's sheer terror of thinking out of the box, a product lacking of any passion or true creativity, filled with absolutely dreadful, robotic "superstars" drained out of all emotions and facial expressions. It's a product that could only be enjoyed by the long-term, die-hard WWE fans that are just too used to WWE and can't/won't/do not want to accept an alternative [as much as they want it].

Did you just say that TNA is going backwards by trying to be ... pro wrestling? Are you out of what's left of your mind? With this you imply that WWE is moving forward by relinquishing everything that made this business good, everything that made you and I fans. And WWE fans can sit home, read about the news and possibly fool their own gullible selves that this is actually a good move? Did you also think that the XFL was gonna work? This was just as stupid and will fail twice as hard, I guarantee it.

TNA is not going backwards by being what it's supposed to be - a pro wrestling company. It's going forward by mixing "sports entertainment" with "pro wrestling". Let's call it "wrestling entertainment". If McMahon wants to be one-dimensional, eliminate wrestling from his product, have less wrestling and more Pee Wee Herman - fine by me, it's his damn funeral. But that doesn't mean that he's setting the standards for every single company out there. If anything he's hurting the business tremendously, and you should be fucking GLAD Ring of Honor and TNA are keeping that pro wrestling spark alive while McMahon is and will continue to take a big dump on the good name of all those wrestlers who built his company. That old turd has been stomping wrestling into the ground for years, and knowing that fans sit back and force themselves to enjoy it and think of it as a smart move is straight up disgusting.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

lol WWE was BUILT??!?!?!? BUILT on being gritty? Are you drunk? Did you start watching in 1998? HULK HOGAN IS IN YOUR SIG!!!!!

WWE was built on Wrestlemania 1, which was glitz and glamour. Sparkly pyros, the latest big screen technology for their ramps. The attitude era was a very well done gritty program, still ran in a very glitzy way. Pyros and video packages are not gritty. WWE RESISTED being gritty for the longest time until they realized they had to to compete with WCW. They were still VERY entertainment based.

You have any idea how much of a joke the sentence "WWE was BUILT on gritty" is? The 80s and pretty much until about 1997/1998 were all about glamour. then again, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Liberace, Mr. T, Bob Euker, Donald Trump, Pam Anderson, Caesars Palace, Little Richard, Aretha Franklin, Pete Rose, Drew carey, matches between wrestlers and football players, a Hollywood Backlot Brawl, Jeff Jarrett having a country music song, ALL of their CDs, ALL of their celebrity/wrestler matches, yea that's ALL gritty. Shit they put those words in their promo packages for all the wrestlemanias. the ONLY time you couldn't clearly say "that's glamour and glitz" was late 1997-early 2000. It was only produced as gritty then because it's what sold. Even then, they used HUGE screens and advanced pyros, hollywood camera techniques, and elaborate storylines. The production and storyline style may have been "gritty" but it sure as fuck wasn't based around good ol' wrestling.

Today's product isn't shitty, you just can't get out of nostalgia. They have to be PG because of the media.

Also, the Attitude Era wasn't as gritty and undergroundy as you think. It was very much in style and to me, undergroundy and gritty have substance, not a lot of substance in cussing, punch/kick matches, and titties. It was "raw" but it wasn't undergroundy.

When I said "going backwards" I mean from their mission statement. If you want to be as big as WWE, you have to be what pro wrestling is, entertainment. No mainstream american company has ever had success being about wrestling. It's always gotten huge on characters and storylines. You can go on your little "pro wrestling" crusade all you want, and I'm a guy who's traveled 13 hours round trip to a ROH show in a day, but that doesn't change the facts.

TNA is NOT keeping pro wrestling alive, TNA is making it a joke. TNA is a fucking joke. spotfests, shitty nostalgia pieces, there isn't a single goddamn redeeming quality about TNA. Their fans suck, their wrestlers do KEWL MOVEZ but pretty much suck. I LOVE ROH btw.

Vince isn't shitting on wrestling, last I checked there are still matches on his program. In fact, there's probably more actual ring time on average on a Raw today, and one that doesn't end in a rundown fuck finish than in the attitude era you praised.

Name me ONE TIME a mainstream American company succeeded by focusing on wrestling? WCW 1996-1998? Nope, totally character driven with nWo vs Sting/WCW. Attitude Era? Nope, tons of punch/kick matches and jerry springer storylines. "Golden age" WWF? Nope, huge ass steroided cartoon characters.

You don't get it. Just like everything else, the more artistic you are, the less popular you are because yes, people are dumb. Most people don't like complex though. Why else would a colorful, fun to look at, but simple movie like Avatar set records? Why would shit like Lil Wayne and Lady Gaga be huge acts? Because it sells and it connects to people. Is John Cena a great technical wrestler? No. Neither was Hogan or Rock or really Austin. However, they could all connect to the fans and tell a story.

You wanna get artsy fartsy and you have a strong, passionate group of fans that are smaller.

TNA's fanbase are wannabe smarks. They're too lazy to look up and watch ROH, lucha, chikara, or puro, but they want to look smart and it's cool to bash the WWE. TNA's show sucks in every possible way. Kurt Angle doesn't have a legit finisher, doesn't sell, and his matches have no story. They're constantly running attitude era nostalgia pieces. Their super athletic undercard hasn't really grown in ability because no one there teaches psychology or selling so they look like video games.



I'll just end with this (about WWE) you DO realize that old timers used to bitch like crazy about the attitude era because it was too crude and not enough about the "pro wrestling" you talk about right? Like, Harley Race started his indy promotion, WLW in 1999 with the slogan "shut up and wrestle" because he wanted to give fans in ring action. So yea, I'll put this in terms you can understand, you can take your nostaliga, shine it up, turn it sideways, give me a hell yea, and have a nice day, or whatever other chorus line you want to fondly remember.

TNA doesn't have a look because they can't decide what they are. Like Mr. Miage says, you can walk right side of the road, safe, left side, safe, walk down middle, sooner or later, squish, just like grape. You can't cater to the smarky hardcore wrestling fans AND the mainstream at the same time.

 

[Fenris]

I read your post, you made some excellent points but I gotta draw issue with this. TNA cannot possibly do this. TNA needs to work with with what they have and grow that way.

They have been working with what they have, it isn't exactly working out too well.

For TNA to poach Randy Orton they would have to pay him around $2m a year PLUS PPV bonuses. You think Styles, Joe, Angle etc are just gunna sit back while Orton swans into a company earning MUCH more money? There would be a mutiny, plain and simple. Knockouts earn $200 a show!

AJ Styles is a company man, whatever is best for TNA is best for him in the long run. If TNA pays someone $2 mil per year and that person gets the product noticed by more people AJ Styles gets noticed by more people. The more people brought in, the more money TNA brings in the bigger AJ's contract becomes. Angle has made his money and again, he's about making TNA better. Why would a 40 year old Angle be pissed TNA sign one of the two biggest young names in wrestling today to a big contract? I can't speak on Joe, maybe it would piss him off but who gives a shit? He and his flabby titties will never draw a dime no matter how much the IWC clamors for him. If he didn't like it you send his fat ass packing to the ROH bingo hall.

But let's talk about your hypothetical. If Randy Orton could be had they should do whatever it takes to lure him away from the WWE and into TNA. The marquee in wrestling/sports entertainment goes John Cena, Randy Orton. That's the facts. As it stands at the moment Orton is the most over guy in TNA's target demographic. If they could have him for $2 mil per year and PPV bonuses it would be a small price to pay. If someone in the locker room doesn't like it? Send them packing. Simple as that. TNA needs to turnover about half of their roster anyways.

But it's all a mute point at this time as Orton signed a 10 year extension last year with the WWE and it would be incredibly hard if not impossible to get out of said contract. TNA missed the boat on Randy Orton it looks like.

So good points, but that just wouldnt work. You would need the Sultan of Brunai for that to actually work. And didnt WCW do that anyway? Hogan, Nash, Hall, Savage, Hart all jumped ship...how did that end with Ted Turners backing?

They were still kicking the WWF's ass when Ted Turners backing ended so I would say it ended fairly well in regards to the Ted Turner era. The question you should be asking is what did it accomplish? Well it got WCW out of studio tapings in FL and on the road, it accomplished making WCW the biggest company in the business and it accomplished moving the industry past the PG, cartoon eras. The same as TNA COULD accomplish, but they need to get away from trying to accomplish it with every WWE midcarder that becomes available.

 

[scomvp316]

I do think a ROH style invasion would work seeing that TNA management in reality has problems with certain ROH Management. If you cross banded the storyline with ROH on TNA and vice versa that gives exposure to both promotions. You can have vignettes pop up of certain ROH guys highlights and have a quick promos for like 3-4 weeks. The one thing most wrestling fans want are new talent be given opportunity similar to waht JCP did back in the 80's!

Right, because even more people know about ROH. The reason why the NWO was, in my opinion the best angle ever, is that for one, the mainstream fan new who Hall, Nash, and Hogan were.

There weren't these IWC knob focks typing on a keyboard all day posting spoilers, rumors, etc about everyone either.

Each week on Nitro back then, you never really knew what was comming, or who would show up. That can't be done today. You can pretty much say that the Internet Smarks killed Pro Wrestling.

 

[SinCityBlitz]

Even though PWI is really not that bad changing names is going to hurt more than help. They have spent eight years building what they have now and to change that would be a major mistake. The name is not holding anything back but some of the people they have under contract and working in the back are.

This is like putting a band aid on a gaping wound.

They were still kicking the WWF's ass when Ted Turners backing ended so I would say it ended fairly well in regards to the Ted Turner era. The question you should be asking is what did it accomplish? Well it got WCW out of studio tapings in FL and on the road, it accomplished making WCW the biggest company in the business and it accomplished moving the industry past the PG, cartoon eras. The same as TNA COULD accomplish, but they need to get away from trying to accomplish it with every WWE midcarder that becomes available.

TNA doesn't have anything close to the money to compete against the WWE at this point. Turner was a billionaire and gave Eric his pin number to go out and get anything he needed. Plus Turner was running his network at that time and could put Nitro on whenever he wanted.

 

[The Prodigal Anti-Lemming]

My thoughts: TNA is on the verge of entering the crucial meltdown phase that led to the extermination of WCW. This is the point in a wrestling company's existence when the finger pointing, political backbiting and second guessing reaches its zenith.

TNA's major powers are inspecting their wins and losses and are looking for scapegoats---and will in likelihood fire those scapegoats. Whether the scapegoats that are thrown out of the woodwork are those that are truly responsible and not pigeons fingered by the manipulations of Hogan and Bischoff, well, time will tell.

And here we come to the point where Hogan will take whatever step necessary to continue to suck on TNA's bank account as a hungry leech in order to hold off the point in the future when he will be reduced to sleeping in a cardboard box in an alley due to his gold digging ex-wife. Bischoff, if history has taught us anything, will fall into his familiar pattern of stating, "I'm only the Creative Director, I have nothing to do with things that end up on TV that suck!" while blaming everyone and everything for what's going wrong.

And of course, the second guessing. WCW did it with the awful NWO break up angle, the end of the Goldberg title reign, and the alteration of the company logo. TNA has already changed the six-sided ring...and they want to do something about the initials T-N-A?

At some point in this reevaluation, I sure hope they look at how the talent has been used, how much useless baggage TNA has collected over the past twelve months, and what kind of stories and matches are airing, because in its current form, a TNA by any other name would smell just as bad.

Honestly, TNA picking up WWE's castoffs is like a dog that sits at the foot of the dinner table looking for scraps. It's like a bum that scans the bottom of dumpsters for empty bottles and whatever useless flotsam that can be used to eke out a meager earning.

 

[berlinbrawler]

I agree they have bigger problems than this, but I actually don't think a name change is such a bad idea.
Don't know how I feel about a promotion called Impact or Pro Wrestling Impact (Can you get any more generic?), but I suppose it makes sense that they would go with a name that the fans are already familiar with from their show. Avoids confusion.

Total Nonstop Action simply is, and always has been a terrible name for a wrestling promotion. It might be an OK name for a video arcade, but only if you are careful never to use the abbreviation. But for a wrestling promotion it just sounds bush league. Not even that, it sounds like what an 8 year old would call his wrestling promotion. Even bush league promoters have more sense than an 8 year old (I hope).

And why did they pick that name? Because they figured every grown up fan who would hear "TNA" would get the giggles? Did they hope some people would tune in hoping for a porn show? Who came up with that name? Jeff Jarrett in a strip club?

Bottom line: Both the abbreviation and the full name suck. Big time. If they ever want to be taken seriously I agree that the name has to change. But knowing TNA they will figure they can't go wrong doing what the WWE did and just drop the full name and become simply known as TNA - no abbreviation.

 

[93178]

I actually think a name change could work out pretty good. It for one would show TNA was willing to change in order to try and become more successful. Also people who are not really TNA fans right now still see the TNA initials as something other then wrestling really.

Plus with a name change it would give for a chance to change a lot more with TNA. They could bring in new/change the on-screen TNA leaders/owners. They could go back to the one General Manager kind of deal like they had with Cornette. They could change the look of the arena a little to make something newer and more fresh. New look for all of the titles... With the whole "The Network" storyline thing going right now it wouldn't be that hard to pull it off storyline wise on TV. They could easier just have "The Network" (whoever it ends up being) fully take over TNA on-screen and say TNA is now gone and PWI (or whatever name they go with) is now here.

 

[SpecialFNK]

My thoughts: TNA is on the verge of entering the crucial meltdown phase that led to the extermination of WCW. This is the point in a wrestling company's existence when the finger pointing, political backbiting and second guessing reaches its zenith.

TNA's major powers are inspecting their wins and losses and are looking for scapegoats---and will in likelihood fire those scapegoats. Whether the scapegoats that are thrown out of the woodwork are those that are truly responsible and not pigeons fingered by the manipulations of Hogan and Bischoff, well, time will tell.

And here we come to the point where Hogan will take whatever step necessary to continue to suck on TNA's bank account as a hungry leech in order to hold off the point in the future when he will be reduced to sleeping in a cardboard box in an alley due to his gold digging ex-wife. Bischoff, if history has taught us anything, will fall into his familiar pattern of stating, "I'm only the Creative Director, I have nothing to do with things that end up on TV that suck!" while blaming everyone and everything for what's going wrong.

And of course, the second guessing. WCW did it with the awful NWO break up angle, the end of the Goldberg title reign, and the alteration of the company logo. TNA has already changed the six-sided ring...and they want to do something about the initials T-N-A?

At some point in this reevaluation, I sure hope they look at how the talent has been used, how much useless baggage TNA has collected over the past twelve months, and what kind of stories and matches are airing, because in its current form, a TNA by any other name would smell just as bad.

Honestly, TNA picking up WWE's castoffs is like a dog that sits at the foot of the dinner table looking for scraps. It's like a bum that scans the bottom of dumpsters for empty bottles and whatever useless flotsam that can be used to eke out a meager earning.

the 6 sided ring had to go, it was stupid to begin with. the ONLY reason to even have a 6 sided ring was just to be different than the WWE and hope to draw in new fans that way. professional wrestling has always been done in a 4 sided ring.

so any former WWE wrestlers in TNA are WWE scraps? this is just a moronic statement. I guess Anderson and Mickie James are scraps? I guess Steve Austin was just a WCW scrap then? because he started with WCW before he went to WWE. pretty much every wrestler does not start with a big company. there have been and currently are plenty of WWE wrestlers who got their start somewhere else.

 

[Rayne]

so any former WWE wrestlers in TNA are WWE scraps? this is just a moronic statement. I guess Anderson and Mickie James are scraps? I guess Steve Austin was just a WCW scrap then? because he started with WCW before he went to WWE. pretty much every wrestler does not start with a big company. there have been and currently are plenty of WWE wrestlers who got their start somewhere else.

One man's trash is another man's treasure. Mr. Kenderson and Mickie James are absolutely WWE scraps. (I prefer the term "WWE reject", but what are you going to do.) In the same sense, Awesome Kong could be considered a "TNA reject", but it's pretty tough to feel like a reject when you move from the #2 competitor in the business to the #1. Turns out punching Bubba was probably the best career move she's made.

Steve Austin was definitely a WCW reject. They thought that he was, at best, a mid-card draw without much personality, and in the Hollywood Blonds era, that wasn't too far off the mark. Hindsight is 20/20, of course. Had WCW not passed up on Austin, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

The label "reject" or "scrap" is misleading, anyhow. It infers the assumption that a company gave up on them because they had nothing to offer to anyone, rather then the wrestler had nothing to offer that particular company (or had it at an unreasonable price.) Frank Herbert's Dune, the best selling science fiction novel of all time, was rejected by more than twenty publishers before it was picked up by a little-known publishing house. Now it's referred to as the authoritative text on how to write science fiction, and spawned five excellent sequels and gave his damn near illiterate son Brian a corpse to ride on as he pretended to be a writer himself. The point is that one person/group rejecting you does not imply that you are without value.