Round Two: Wolverine vs. Undertaker

Who wins?

  • Wolverine

  • Undertaker


Results are only viewable after voting.
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JGlass

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Round Two...

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Stage: Chamber of Secrets

Hidden beneath Hogwarts is a dungeon that houses a deadly basilisk. However, on this occasion, that basilisk is only the second most deadly thing within the Chamber of Secrets because Wolverine and Undertaker will be fighting for a trip to round 3 of the BattleZone Tournament. Does Wolverine have what it takes to put down the Deadman? Can Undertaker bury a mutant like Weapon X? Who will walk out of the Chamber of Secrets, and who will keep the basilisk company?

FIGHT!
 
I think Wolverine wins fairly easy. Undertaker can't use his lightning underground and will rely on his own hand to hand strength and his army of zombies.

Wolverine wins after quickly dispatching his army and ripping his head clean off with both claws.
 
I'm going to make a case here for The Undertaker, and I promise that I wouldn't be doing this unless I found something that would give Undertaker an indisputable edge.

The Undertaker is a necromancer, thus I imagine that he has the abilities and understanding common of a high level (10-15) mage who had taken the necromancy specialty class.

Adamantium (or adamantine) isn't an unheard of metal in the fantasy world of swords and sorcery; source. I see no reason to assume that adamantium and adamantine are that much different, in that it's acknowledged that Adamantine is made from alloys of Adamanitum.

There's a certain spell that Undertaker would be well aware of, called transmute metal to wood. The details of that spell can be found here. The tricky thing about that is that a seasoned Dungeon Master would recognize that Wolverine's skeleton isn't one metal object, it's over two hundred metal objects bonded together. Being that the transmutation spell is a druid spell, Undertaker would need to use a scroll for each time he intended to perform the magic. Lucky for him, this battle is taking place in a location that's a treasure trove of magical components that would give a huge advantage to a seasoned spell-caster, and the transmutation spell doesn't require Wolverine to be physically touched.

I give undertaker one chance to cast the spell. Wolverine has six separate claws, so it would be foolish to transmute one of them.

Necromancers tend to be very wary of human anatomy, more specifically the skeletal structure. I imagine that Undertaker would plan to transmute one very essential bone in Wolverine's body, the sphenoid bone.

While a lightning strike might shock -- and slightly startle -- Wolverine, a strike to a part of Wolverine's skeleton that was transmuted to wood would likely result in incineration.

Undertaker proves that with enough strategy and knowledge, the toughest x-men in history can go down.

Vote Undertaker.
 
I think the location could favour Wolverine. He has lots of places to hide and literally sniff out Undie, wait and attack.

Here's another thing... If Taker sees a short, stocky guy called Wolverine, he'll spend at LEAST two seconds thinking "Is that you, Chris?!"
 
Taker would not know he has Adamantium fused bones, nor would he have time to read a scroll spell. Logan wouldnt just stand there. This game version of Taker has a limited untested power. No reason to assume he is as powerful as other necromancers from other games/stories. Nothing Taker has shown would be able to take down Logan.
 
Taker would not know he has Adamantium fused bones, nor would he have time to read a scroll spell. Logan wouldnt just stand there. This game version of Taker has a limited untested power. No reason to assume he is as powerful as other necromancers from other games/stories. Nothing Taker has shown would be able to take down Logan.

I'm not using arbitrary speculation here; if Undertaker is a Necromancer, then he's allowed to apply powers that are applicable to Necromancers. They didn't call him a "Deathmancer" or imply that he's some kind of variant. He's a Necromancer, meaning that he's a spell-caster, meaning that he has awareness and utilization of magic, meaning that he would definitely use magic to avoid letting this fight go on too long.

I only mentioned adamantium to indicate that it's not a metal that doesn't apply to the logic of a transmutation spell, it's mentioned in the D&D universe. Undertaker wouldn't have to know that he's dealing with an adamantium skeleton, he would just have to know that he's dealing with someone who has a skeleton made of metal. Wolverine is pretty damn flamboyant with those claws, and Undertaker would seize upon that kind of a weakness if he noticed it.

Logan wouldn't have to just stand there, a transmutation spell would be based on the will to transmute by the spell-caster and the saving throw for the spell is based on spell resistance and not fortitude. On top of that, a high level Necromancer has tricks up their sleeve when it comes to staying alive.

Never underestimate the ingenuity of a seasoned spell-caster.
 
I think the location could favour Wolverine. He has lots of places to hide and literally sniff out Undie, wait and attack.

Undertaker is a Necromancer, in a dungeon underneath a school of fucking magic. The location favors Undertaker, no other location would favor Undertaker more than this one.

Let's imagine that Wolverine goes against his common Leeroy Jenkins combat strategy, and hides. Undertaker could easily cast an amplified version of the sense life spell to figure out where he's hiding.
 
We dont know he is a seasoned spell caster. The canon on his powers is limited to one game & he isnt even the best character. This Taker goes against someone who has proved to embody the word resilient. Wolverine's canon is vast & there is far more in his favor using facts. What you are doing is assigning attributes, power and knowledge on the basis that one necromancer fits all. By that logic, Edward from Twilight would handle a fight just how Angel would. I mean, they are both vampires...


Point is you can assume Taker could draw the same knowledge or spells of others, but he has not shown to do what you claim. I, on the other hand, point you to any Wolverine TPB or comic he appears in as to just what he can do. Taker gets eviscerated here. Some wrestling moves wont get it done. No lightning to summon. Demon spawns or druids are fodder.
 
A few things I want to throw out there.

1) In an alternate X-Men Universe (X-Men Forever), Wolverine is actually killed by lightning. It's a shit ton of lightning summoned by evil Storm, but she basically zaps him until he's nothing but bones and, for some reason, hair.

latest


I don't know if that would work on regular Earth-616 Wolverine, but as far as I know X-Men Forever Universe has the same rules as Earth-616.

2) That spell that Undertaker may theoretically know and use that would turn the Adamantium to wood may theoretically help Wolverine. Wolverine's healing factor is actually a lot more powerful than it presents because it's constantly defending Wolverine from adamantium poisoning. If the adamantium coating turned to a thin layer of wood, his healing factor would quickly break down the wood, leaving Wolverine able to heal off anything Taker could throw at him except maybe like, a bullet in the brain or something else Taker probably can't do.

That said, I don't think Taker has access to these cool magical powers ED is talking about. I respect the hell out of the argument and it's very interesting, but it's all theoretical. We've never seen Taker use these spells and there's no reason to believe that he can beyond his lightning abilities.

Can Taker cast enough lightning to roast Wolverine to a skeleton? I don't think so, but if someone proves that he can, then I could see myself voting for Taker. Until then, I can't imagine Wolverine not winning this fight.
 
We dont know he is a seasoned spell caster. The canon on his powers is limited to one game & he isnt even the best character.

I don't think Taker has access to these cool magical powers ED is talking about. I respect the hell out of the argument and it's very interesting, but it's all theoretical. We've never seen Taker use these spells and there's no reason to believe that he can beyond his lightning abilities.

For Heaven's sake, Wolverine is ridiculously overpowered. I'm not presenting these arguments so I can impress anybody, I like the idea that a few of these fights can be at least a little fair.

For all the insane abilities that Wolverine is apparently allowed to have, I think it's fair to associate an Undertaker who identifies as a Necromancer with other Necromancers. As you both have pointed out, this is all we're given in terms of backstory to this BattleZone competitor:

maxresdefault.jpg

I'm not calling him the greatest Necromancer in all of fantasy lore, I'm looking at him as a semi-decent spell-caster who finds himself going up against an enraged lunatic in an arena that's vibrating with magic power.

The transmutation spell is one option he has. To Wolverine, this would be just another fight where he just has to go ape-shit to win. To Undertaker, this is a game of chess where he has to play his game very carefully. If Wolverine gets to just shred anything with his claws, then Undertaker at least gets a few moments to strategically think this battle through.

It's been mentioned that Wolverine's well known (especially to a Necromancer who could sense life auras) healing ability counters the toxicity of his skeleton. Here's something that happened recently to Wolverine in regard to that:

wolverine-loses-his-healing-factor.jpg

Wolverine's healing advantage, can be his biggest weakness in terms of what would happen if it were negated, which is apparently possible in the Marvel world. There would be no "good news" from Beast if Undertaker was able to deduce that poisoning Wolverine with a strong enough life drain would actually cancel out his healing ability. Wolverine with no healing ability would be a major shock to his metabolism.

Have I made it obvious enough that I'm a D&D geek yet?

Undertaker does cast lightning in WWE Immortals, which by the way isn't a common spell in the most recent Necromancer's Spell list. Through the same link, one can research that lightning bolt is a 3rd level Sorcerer spell that Undertaker can apparently just cast at will. Notice that another few 3rd level Sorcerer spells are "slow" and "haste", which would both be high priorities of Undertaker's to even the odds in this encounter. If he's so advanced in his studies that he can cast a spell from a class that he's only studying on the side, I'm sure he could pull off Black Lightning.

In reference to the question if Undertaker could pull off a lightning bolt strong enough to mimic Storm's, the link I shared has this fun snippet:

"Far away, wherever your enemies may be, they are suddenly stricken by a snarling bolt of negative energy that tears through stone and sky alike. It is not stopped even by lead and cannot be evaded no matter what. Even after the first jolt, a second follows, and a third after that. The air is filled with their shrieks of agony as excruciating pain fills them and overcomes them, tearing their soul from their body and banishing it to the nine hells forever."

For reference, here's a layout of The Chamber of Secrets.

Undertaker slows Wolverine at the entrance, hastes himself, makes his way to the Statue of Slytherin and sets magic traps along the way. A life drain ward is placed to ensure that if Wolverine makes it there in time, he'll at least be a fair opponent. He has a transmutation scroll handy just in case. Undertaker begins the ritual of Black Lightning and the rest is up to our imaginations.

I think that Undertaker would prove to be too crafty an opponent for Wolverine.
 
Oh yeah? Well what if Xavier gave Logan his +4 Boots of Escapement? He wears boots anyway so it is safe to assume he can use those too.

This is kinda how you sound.

I get where you are coming from. I just have a problem assigning abilities to someone not shown capable of them. That cannot happen, otherwise this whole tournament devolves into chaos. I wish there was more to go on for Taker as his inclusion was a nice choice this year, but he just cant hold up to some others here. Logan isnt overpowered. He has just enough going for him that he can hold his own against some truly powerful in his universe. Taker cannot get it done here. Logan is battle tested against more talented and tougher people than Undertaker.
 
I get where you are coming from. I just have a problem assigning abilities to someone not shown capable of them. That cannot happen, otherwise this whole tournament devolves into chaos.
It goes the other way as well. Cyclops is (like Wolverine) a mutant, but that doesn't give him shiny claws, weather control or psychoflexative powers.

Undy is a necromancer in the sense that he has zombies doing his bidding, which is all death-related abilities he is shown to have as far as I know. Even people who can only communicate with the dead count as necromancers, so there's no secret grimoire here. If we're working off potential alone, there's no yardstick.

Oh yeah? Well what if Xavier gave Logan his +4 Boots of Escapement? He wears boots anyway so it is safe to assume he can use those too.
Wait wait wait... Xavier wouldn't have a spare set of boots, because he'd never need to buy new shoes...
 
Oh yeah? Well what if Xavier gave Logan his +4 Boots of Escapement? He wears boots anyway so it is safe to assume he can use those too.

This is kinda how you sound.

No, no. You've got my number friend.

I get where you are coming from. I just have a problem assigning abilities to someone not shown capable of them. That cannot happen, otherwise this whole tournament devolves into chaos.

I'm doing the best I can, alright? For the sake of our collective sanity, I'm not going into the Necromancer's abilities in any form of media that isn't Dungeons and Dragons. There's plenty, but even I'm willing to admit that it would be stupid to assume that a character could draw upon abilities that would eventually contradict each other.

I wish there was more to go on for Taker as his inclusion was a nice choice this year, but he just cant hold up to some others here.

I'm glad that I'm not the only person here who likes the idea that Undertaker would have a fighting chance in this encounter.

Logan isnt overpowered.

Super healing, claws that can cut nearly anything, nigh-invulnerable skeleton and enhanced olfacation. He survived a nuclear blast, having his skeleton ripped from his body, being ripped into two pieces (he climbed Mount Everest to get his lower half back) and having his head cut off. He's overpowered.

He has just enough going for him that he can hold his own against some truly powerful in his universe. Taker cannot get it done here. Logan is battle tested against more talented and tougher people than Undertaker.

I think that Taker can get it done here, but even I'm willing to admit that it's a huge long-shot even if everyone is on board with my fun little scenario.
 
True, Wolverine can heal from most grievous injuries, but it takes him quite a while, and this fight is to KO/incapacitation.

Still, I don't think Taker is the guy to take Wolverine down today. Unless he has the ability to absolutely pound Wolverine with lightning, and I'm not sure he can, Wolverine takes this
 
Question: Would you deem either Wolverine or Undertaker to use electricity to fight?

I put Taker in as using it but alas...
 
Of course the Undertakers lightening uses electricity and are you ready?

'All those substitutes for magic Muggles use – electricity, and computers and radar, and all those things – they all go haywire around Hogwarts, there’s too much magic in the air.'

Therefore takers electricity would be invalid.Wolverine wins.
 
I'm probably the only person who thinks WWE's Undertaker is more powerful than WWE Immortal's Undertaker. He's possessed people and the like.


I hate Wolverine and Taker is my favorite wrestler. I'm siding with Wolverine here for being able to handle much more than the superhero equivalent of the WWE locker room.
 
At least WWE Taker cannot die. Being buried alive multiple times & still kicking. Plus, the guy landed on his head after flying through the air and walked away, so he is also tough. Hell, he had a concussion & still kept on trying to slay a beast.

I would say that version trumps this one. He still loses though. Sadly.
 
Well, the thing about alternate universes is that it gives writers the opportunity to ignore the established canon so that they can do pretty much what they want. In this universe, Wolverine is killed by essentially having his flesh seared from his body, leaving his adamantium skeleton behind.

During the first Civil War storyline arc about 10 years ago, at the end of Wolverine vol. 3 #42, Wolverine is caught in an explosion that burns all the flesh from his bones but he fully regenerates in the next issue and beats the crap out of the guy who blew him up.

I suppose Taker's lightning could incapacitate him long enough, which is all that's required in this tourney, to win, though it'd take a huge amount to do so. If Taker didn't get it done with the first volley of lightning strikes, he'd ultimately just wind up pissing Wolverine off more than anything else. Wolverine's greatest weakness is that he relies too heavily on his healing factor and adamantium skeleton, he's an incredibly skilled fighter, but he usually rushes in and ignores strategy and goes at his opponent like a rabid....well....wolverine. In a straight up fight, I have to go with Wolverine here.

It's true that, at times, Wolverine's healing powers are pretty overwhelmingly ridiculous but, then again, look at some of the others in this tourney, such as Trunks from DBZ.
 
While The Undertaker can summon lightning indoors, this is a case where the environment is too closed off and too rigidly laid-out to allow it to be summoned safely. With lightning out of the picture, I don't think the Deadman has enough to stop Wolverine's healing factor. It'll come down to a fist fight and some zombies that Wolverine is more than capable of taking on, and I just don't see a scenario where Taker comes out in one piece.

He'll be back, of course, but it'll take a while, and as long as he's incapacitated Wolverine will advance.

I am loving the arguments for Taker in this thread, though. Really fascinating stuff, and I really like that Taker's being treated legitimately. I just think this is one challenge too big, at least for this iteration.
 
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