Round 2: Flash vs. Shao Khan

[JGlass]

Round Two

The Flash just barely beat Spidey in round one while Shao Khan showed M. Bison who's really the boss of all bosses. The two meet in round two in your typical speed vs. power match. Can Flash continue his push, or does he run into a brick wall at Shao Khan?

FIGHT!​

 

[GI Cake]

Shao Kahn is powerful, no way around that. His strength rivals that of gods like Raiden. And his mastery in the dark arts will also be a force to be trifled with. But one of Kahn's biggest flaws often come to his overconfidence, and his brashness. He would see how dangerously close the Flashes fight was to Spider-Man and would think of him nothing more than a fast bug. He wouldn't even believe that Flash would have the ability to throw a punch that rivals Super-Mans. Kahn will come out, ready with his giant, slow swinging war hammer and expect to hit a home run, only to have that fastball curve and bite him in the ass. Earthrealm. And much like how everyone here underestimates Flash, Kahn would be brash ten fold. Kahn's brashness alone has costed him every single time he has ever attempted to conquer Earthrealm. Thanks to Flash Facts Flash has learned about how to use the Infinite Force Punch. In the last fight, Flash wouldn't have thought of using the Force Punch on a fellow do-gooder. But on villains that are the entity of evil like Kahn, he wouldn't think twice.

And he is going....Going....Gone....

I doubt the Punch would send Kahn flying to another half of the globe. But it would have the power to knock him right the hell out. And due to the sheer speed Flash contains, Kahn has no real way to deflect or avoid the oncoming attack.


But let's throw a what if. What if Kahn was able to swipe at him or land a hit with his war hammer? Surely that would knock out the Speedster? Not according to his healing factor. (Did Pancake just pull out the healing factor card) Yes I did. Flash heals almost instantly. That means if Kahn actually did any damage Flash can recover. Know how badly I wanted my health to recharge after Kahn laid a hurting on me in Kombat? I would have killed for it.


Folks, speed kills, and sadly for the evil dark ruler, speed is also untouchable until it lands that infamous right hook on Kahn's kisser.

 

[aza1294]

Tough draw for Shao Kahn, he has a lot of power and i was pulling for him to get far in this tournament, but there's no way he can get past flash. Flash hits light speed, Shao Kahn won't know what hit him. I don't see flash losing to anyone in the supers bracket except for maybe Goku and Deadpool, Flash advances

 

[Shotaro]

Here's the thing, this battle is being pitched as speed vs power, that's great and all but Flash is not only fast, but his body can withstand the tremendous forces involved.

The normal human being cannot survive an impact with a car at 60mph without a lot of luck, the pressure from the impact alone is enough to do serious damage, people do survive sure, but often? no. I realise that Shao Khan is not human, but let's just let Physics do some of the work for us.

A fist is about a third of the size of the impact zone between a human body and a car (an over simplification but close enough, if anything a fist is a smaller proportion) so we can magnify the force of a car moving at 60mph by three, flash can move at 60mph without breaking a sweat, hell he can move at 600mph pretty effortlessly.

Let's say Flash is moving at Mach 2, and he hits Shao Khan, The force exerted is 15,932,136lbs of force, the bomb they dropped on Hiroshima had 67,000. Flash can hit harder than a nuclear bomb. It's not Speed vs Power, it's Speed, Power and Durability vs Power, this is not a contest, it's a rout. Flash wins!

DISCLAIMER: This force is based on Flash weighing 120kgs and moving at 600m/s, the maths here is VERY rough but it gives a good enough picture of exactly how hard Flash can hit someone.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

But let's throw a what if. What if Kahn was able to swipe at him or land a hit with his war hammer? Surely that would knock out the Speedster? Not according to his healing factor. (Did Pancake just pull out the healing factor card) Yes I did. Flash heals almost instantly. That means if Kahn actually did any damage Flash can recover. Know how badly I wanted my health to recharge after Kahn laid a hurting on me in Kombat? I would have killed for it.

This is bullshit. The whole Deadpool/Dragon argument you kept saying Deadpool's healing factor didn't matter. That and the dragon was 50ft tall. You can't say one guys healing factor doesn't count and one guys does just because you like one guy.

How would Flash account for Kahn's magic? You totally overlooked that fact.

 

[The Doctor]

One important factor to remember is that not only is Shao Kahn powerful and durable to the point of gods, he also has teleportation and magical abilities. I know, Flash is fast, but Khan is more than just a brute. What's stopping him from turning Flash into a baby and smashing him with his hammer, or hovering out of the way of Flash's attack? Kahn is so much more than a punch-kick guy, he also has intelligence, stamina, and magic.

 

[GI Cake]

This is bullshit. The whole Deadpool/Dragon argument you kept saying Deadpool's healing factor didn't matter. That and the dragon was 50ft tall. You can't say one guys healing factor doesn't count and one guys does just because you like one guy.

How would Flash account for Kahn's magic? You totally overlooked that fact.

In my earlier argument, it was that Deadpool's healing factor would not matter because of how much sheer damage the dragon could do in a matter of seconds that would have given it a win. Unless Kahn's strike kills in one hit (and it never has in the video games) then it is a moot point. A dragon can kill with one smash of it's claw, the same can be said for Flash's punch.

As for Kahn's magic? In the games his attacks are easily avoidable with the proper reflexes. The projectiles like his magic spears and his fire-balls can be dodged by bigger, slower moving guys. The clones can be an issue, for a moment Flash has been able to tell apart Mirror Master's copies of himself by well... Hitting them. He'll hit every clone until he finds the real Kahn.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

In my earlier argument, it was that Deadpool's healing factor would not matter because of how much sheer damage the dragon could do in a matter of seconds that would have given it a win. Unless Kahn's strike kills in one hit (and it never has in the video games) then it is a moot point. A dragon can kill with one smash of it's claw, the same can be said for Flash's punch.

As for Kahn's magic? In the games his attacks are easily avoidable with the proper reflexes. The projectiles like his magic spears and his fire-balls can be dodged by bigger, slower moving guys. The clones can be an issue, for a moment Flash has been able to tell apart Mirror Master's copies of himself by well... Hitting them. He'll hit every clone until he finds the real Kahn.

Of course none of Kahn's attacks will kill in one hit in game, that would be unfair as hell. In the movies and comics he kills people with one swing of his hammer. He also has the ability grab opponents with his magic. His magic would allow him to grab flash out of mid air, no matter how fast he is moving. He could hold Flash in place with magic, and play baseball with his head using his hammer. Kahn knocks this one out of the park.

 

[GI Cake]

Of course none of Kahn's attacks will kill in one hit in game, that would be unfair as hell. In the movies and comics he kills people with one swing of his hammer. He also has the ability grab opponents with his magic. His magic would allow him to grab flash out of mid air, no matter how fast he is moving. He could hold Flash in place with magic, and play baseball with his head using his hammer. Kahn knocks this one out of the park.

That is if he is actually able to pull him in with said magic. Have you been able to pluck out something going as fast as the Flash? Let's say Flash is running at the speed of a jet, Kahn would need to focus his magic and manage to get even an inch of Flash to have the hope of even tripping him up. Kahn uses that ability on enemies who are side stepping in a small arena, he's never had to grab someone going faster than a small dash backward, let alone someone as quick as Flash. Kahn doesn't have the reflexes to pull Flash out. He might grab a bit of Flash's after-image if he's lucky.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

That is if he is actually able to pull him in with said magic. Have you been able to pluck out something going as fast as the Flash? Let's say Flash is running at the speed of a jet, Kahn would need to focus his magic and manage to get even an inch of Flash to have the hope of even tripping him up. Kahn uses that ability on enemies who are side stepping in a small arena, he's never had to grab someone going faster than a small dash backward, let alone someone as quick as Flash. Kahn doesn't have the reflexes to pull Flash out. He might grab a bit of Flash's after-image if he's lucky.

You do realize that Kahn is in other media besides games right? You keep bringing up the games, but Kahn has been in movies and comics, as well as TV shows. If you only want to use games, lets look at Flash in DC vs. MK. He didn't have his healing factor nor could he constantly spam his super speed, that gives Kahn a clear advantage. Lets take a look at those games you can't seem to get past. Watch this video starting at 1:40. At 2:10 on watch the bottom of the pyramid.

[YOUTUBE]yAIIkCTcoPU[/YOUTUBE]

Shao Kahn is fighting off multiple combatants with his hammer alone. Not to mention he breezed through Shang Tsung's magic.

Since you also seem to thing Kahn only exists in video games, lets look at this.

[YOUTUBE]gvjhXPYFOD4[/YOUTUBE]

 

[GI Cake]

You do realize that Kahn is in other media besides games right? You keep bringing up the games, but Kahn has been in movies and comics, as well as TV shows. If you only want to use games, lets look at Flash in DC vs. MK. He didn't have his healing factor nor could he constantly spam his super speed, that gives Kahn a clear advantage. Lets take a look at those games you can't seem to get past. Watch this video starting at 1:40. At 2:10 on watch the bottom of the pyramid.

I'm not bringing in just games, I'm talking about the incarnation that the characters are most famous for. In this case, we have comic book Flash against video game Shao Kahn. If we wanted to argue that Kahn is more powerful in a different universe then in the Batman thread you open up people to using this against Batman.

See how awful of a point that can be? Shao Kahn is known for his role in a video game. Flash is known for being a comic book superhero. You can't get movie Kahn where he only kicks ass for about 45 seconds before being carried away by a dragon.

I would also like to note that a kick from Shang Tsung pushed Kahn a good 5 feet in that cut-scene. That does not hold good water for withstanding a hit from Flash.

Since you also seem to thing Kahn only exists in video games, lets look at this.

[YOUTUBE]gvjhXPYFOD4[/YOUTUBE]

Are you seriously bringing in that shit Mortal Kombat vs DC game to help your point? They stated numerous times they had to tone down the DC hero's in order to balance them against the Mortal Kombat combatants. I could easily replay that garbage game and have Flash win that fight, regardless of how toned down they had to make the DC fighters. The fact that in this video game they had to tone down guys like Flash to put him on par with Kahn further proves the point Flash should be winning this fight hands down.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

I'm not bringing in just games, I'm talking about the incarnation that the characters are most famous for. In this case, we have comic book Flash against video game Shao Kahn. If we wanted to argue that Kahn is more powerful in a different universe then in the Batman thread you open up people to using this against Batman.

See how awful of a point that can be? Shao Kahn is known for his role in a video game. Flash is known for being a comic book superhero. You can't get movie Kahn where he only kicks ass for about 45 seconds before being carried away by a dragon.

I would also like to note that a kick from Shang Tsung pushed Kahn a good 5 feet in that cut-scene. That does not hold good water for withstanding a hit from Flash.




Are you seriously bringing in that shit Mortal Kombat vs DC game to help your point? They stated numerous times they had to tone down the DC hero's in order to balance them against the Mortal Kombat combatants. I could easily replay that garbage game and have Flash win that fight, regardless of how toned down they had to make the DC fighters. The fact that in this video game they had to tone down guys like Flash to put him on par with Kahn further proves the point Flash should be winning this fight hands down.

You brought that game up yourself in the initial argument. Then you said Kahn is best know for games, yet you don't want to count a game because it was shitty. If you want to use comics, why not bring up the fact that Barry Allen was dead from 1985-2008?

Clearly since the dragon that carried him away wasn't 50ft tall it must be a shitty dragon though and that means Flash could easily beat him

It doesn't matter how fast Flash is, Kahn is able to create a magic barrier that is able to repel attacks and damage enemies.

Flash also wouldn't be able to punch Kahn in the face, his helmet is imbued with ancient magic, the only thing that can break it is his own hammer.

Kahn is also very cunning, and uses his magic to great affect. He used his clones to trick Shang Tsung and Quan Chi, the two most powerful magic users in the MK universe.

Kahn also has an attack called Hammer Dance. He swings his hammer at a great speed, not Flash fast, but fast enough that it's almost impossible to pick up with the naked eye. He hits 10 times with said attack. One hammer shot was enough to break through magic barriers, ten shots would put Flash out.

Not to mention he has another attack called Wrath Hammer Attack where his hammer magically hits his opponent over the head, appearing out of thin air, and then stunning the opponent. Not to mention the only way to block his hammer attack is to use magic, either to absorb the blow or teleport away. Flash is fast but he can't magically teleport.

 

[DirtyJosé]

One important factor to remember is that not only is Shao Kahn powerful and durable to the point of gods, he also has teleportation and magical abilities. I know, Flash is fast, but Khan is more than just a brute. What's stopping him from turning Flash into a baby and smashing him with his hammer, or hovering out of the way of Flash's attack? Kahn is so much more than a punch-kick guy, he also has intelligence, stamina, and magic.

Emphasis on magic. If there's one thing Kahn knew, it's that the biggest threats to him were magic based, be it sorcerers, witches, gods, or demons. Being an evil despot of two realms merged into one and eyeing a new expansion, I'm inclined to believe he's got more tricks up his sleeve than just a hammer and an immunity to jump kicks.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

I've been thinking a little. The fight is on neutral ground, so obviously the fight doesn't take place in the DC universe. Doesn't that mean Flash would be unable to access the Speed Force? That would essentially render him powerless.

 

[GI Cake]

You brought that game up yourself in the initial argument. Then you said Kahn is best know for games, yet you don't want to count a game because it was shitty. If you want to use comics, why not bring up the fact that Barry Allen was dead from 1985-2008?

Because this isn't a popularity contest, that's why. Does it really matter that Flash had been dead for at least 23 years? Does that hinder him in anyway? Shao Kahn has been killed and defeated every time he tried to conquer the Earthrealm.

Clearly since the dragon that carried him away wasn't 50ft tall it must be a shitty dragon though and that means Flash could easily beat him

You're missing the point that if Tsung's kick was able to knock back Kahn several feet. If the dark mage was able to do that with one side kick just imagine how much damage Flash will be able to do with the Infinite Mass Punch.

It doesn't matter how fast Flash is, Kahn is able to create a magic barrier that is able to repel attacks and damage enemies.

Speed does matter, how are you not getting this? Kahn can create barriers yes, but they never stay up for too long of a time. He has to time them and ready for whoever tries to attack him. The barrier is not a passive move that lights up when he is in danger, it's a defensive move Kahn performs. If Kahn is off, even by a second Flash will be past the barrier with his punch.

Flash also wouldn't be able to punch Kahn in the face, his helmet is imbued with ancient magic, the only thing that can break it is his own hammer.

Tell that to Kahn's chin.

Kahn is also very cunning, and uses his magic to great affect. He used his clones to trick Shang Tsung and Quan Chi, the two most powerful magic users in the MK universe.

And Flash will be able to find out who is the real Kahn through trial and error. His arch enemy, Mirror Master can duplicate himself. Flash simply just hit every single one of them till he found the right one.

Kahn also has an attack called Hammer Dance. He swings his hammer at a great speed, not Flash fast, but fast enough that it's almost impossible to pick up with the naked eye. He hits 10 times with said attack. One hammer shot was enough to break through magic barriers, ten shots would put Flash out.

How do you think Flash is able to see, hear, or smell in the insanely high speeds he travels at? The answer is that he has senses enhanced to allow him to use all his senses at high speeds but to also see things slowed down to normal speeds. Evading this attack would be like playing dodgeball with Walt Jr.

Not to mention he has another attack called Wrath Hammer Attack where his hammer magically hits his opponent over the head, appearing out of thin air, and then stunning the opponent. Not to mention the only way to block his hammer attack is to use magic, either to absorb the blow or teleport away. Flash is fast but he can't magically teleport.

You can't hit Flash. Unless Kahn is able to see someone moving so fast his after image can actually be solid enough for people to stand on or touch. Unless Kahn will be able to actually see the Flash he won't just drop his hammer willy nilly.

I've been thinking a little. The fight is on neutral ground, so obviously the fight doesn't take place in the DC universe. Doesn't that mean Flash would be unable to access the Speed Force? That would essentially render him powerless.

FitFinley tried using that before, and again the argument is invalid due to the fact that the battlefield is supposed to give no one an advantage, or a disadvantage . If Flash loses his speed because of being outside of his universe than it ruins the whole fun of this tournament. If you need to limit Flash in any way it just further proves the point that on his own Flash will stand tall over Kahn.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

FitFinley tried using that before, and again the argument is invalid due to the fact that the battlefield is supposed to give no one an advantage, or a disadvantage . If Flash loses his speed because of being outside of his universe than it ruins the whole fun of this tournament. If you need to limit Flash in any way it just further proves the point that on his own Flash will stand tall over Kahn.

You try to limit the hell of the guys you argue against. I'm saying the Speed Force only exists in the DC Universe. Its sort of the loophole that Flash and other speedsters need to conveniently ignore the laws of science when it comes to things like physics, gravity, and metabolism. Without it they would essentially kill themselves in about a minute because of their super accelerated metabolism. If the fight takes places outside the DC universe then the Speed Force doesn't exist. The only way Flash has it is inside the DC universe. I'm content to argue that the fight takes place in the DC Universe. Then I could argue for Dark Kahn.

Even if I want to conveniently ignore the thing that fucks Flash, you keep down playing Kahn's magic. You know his magic is instant right. He can spam it. It isn't a matter of timing, its magic, it instant and he could grab Flash from midair from the start of the fight and then its over. You can't outrun magic.

 

[Remix]

You try to limit the hell of the guys you argue against. I'm saying the Speed Force only exists in the DC Universe. Its sort of the loophole that Flash and other speedsters need to conveniently ignore the laws of science when it comes to things like physics, gravity, and metabolism. Without it they would essentially kill themselves in about a minute because of their super accelerated metabolism. If the fight takes places outside the DC universe then the Speed Force doesn't exist. The only way Flash has it is inside the DC universe. I'm content to argue that the fight takes place in the DC Universe. Then I could argue for Dark Kahn.

1) the DC Universe is a multiverse. The speed force exists in all of them. It is therefore existant in this one as it is clearly a universal constant.

2) a neutral stage can't aid or hinder one party more than another. Cutting off the speed force would be an example of a non neutral stage.

3) Pancake, shut the fuck up and stop debating. You're not helping and you look like a tool.

Even if I want to conveniently ignore the thing that fucks Flash, you keep down playing Kahn's magic. You know his magic is instant right. He can spam it. It isn't a matter of timing, its magic, it instant and he could grab Flash from midair from the start of the fight and then its over. You can't outrun magic.

Instant? Really? Let me take a look at his moveset (i'm going by the last on the MK wiki because i'm not in the mood to research any other media) and decide for myself:

• Light spear. Obviously can't travel faster than light. Flash can. Next.
• Mystic Choke. The description makes an instant attack sound plausible, but without seeing the attack in action I can't be sure (if he's physically slamming into Flash then they're likely to get blocked or countered). Can you prove its speed? I also question his ability to catch Flash if he's moving at any high level of speed. It's instant, yes. But Flash isn't in one place for long. He might summon an instant attack where Flash was a microsecond before and thus miss (and when you're at Flash's speed a microsecond means dozens or even hundreds of meters traveled). Just like hitting a slow moving target with a bullet is harder than it looks, hitting a fast moving Flash with instant magic would be too. Khan's magic might be instant, but his brain, optic nerves and retinas aren't.
• Charging spikes, uplifting knee, grab and punch and moves involving the Wraith Hammer. I will laugh in your face if you think he stands a chance of hitting Flash with any of them.
• Explosive ball. Has a limited speed (otherwise it would blow itself out) and range (as fire tends to burn up its fuel). Non-issue against Flash,
• Emperor's shield. I see no reason it's not instant. I do however question its ability to withstand Flash's attacks. Kinetic energy is proportional to velocity squared after all. Flash has a lot of velocity. Of course, if it is strong enough to significantly slow/stop Flash (or worse, "reflect" him) he's going to go splat. Can you prove that it can?

Yaz, either come up with some instant never missing magic/proof that his force field can withstand Fash or admit defeat. Flash doesn't need to be faster than magic. He just needs to be faster than Khan's brain. Considering he's faster than light, it's an easy feat.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

Remix I'm searching for some game footage of his magic, thus far Youtube is providing little. If I have to I will find my copy of Armageddon and film his mystical attacks.

You are right, his dashing and projectile attacks that use magic have limited range and speed, but his mystical attacks are instant and unblockable, even to guys like Nightwolf who have their own magical blocking abilities.

One question I have? How long has Flash been running before this battle. If he runs too long this happens

That's Barry Allen running so fast for so long his molecules got sucked into the Speed Force and he killed himself. When you best asset is also your biggest weakness, it doesn't bode well for you in a fight.

 

[Remix]

Remix I'm searching for some game footage of his magic, thus far Youtube is providing little. If I have to I will find my copy of Armageddon and film his mystical attacks.

I noticed.

You are right, his dashing and projectile attacks that use magic have limited range and speed, but his mystical attacks are instant and unblockable, even to guys like Nightwolf who have their own magical blocking abilities.

He doesn't have to block. He just has to be in a different place to where Khan thinks he is. Unless you can prove otherwise, I'm working on the principle that Shao Khan's body is similar to a human's. This would mean that Flash could be in a different place entirely to where Khan thinks he is.

You see, to react to something you see takes time. To see something the cells in the retina have to perform chemical reactions, causing them to trigger an electrical impulse which travels to the brain via the optic nerves. The brain then has to respond to this impulse and react. The brain is fast, but it's not super fast. To hit Flash with an instant attack he's got to see him, decide to use it, aim and fire. To fire, he's got to use the spell, which would require his brain to go through the processes to use the instant spell. If he can think it, it'll take time. It he has to say it, it'll take longer.

By the time Khan has done whatever he needs to in order to use the attack, Flash isn't where the spell is aimed. Just because the spell takes effect instantly, doesn't mean Khan's not going to have a hell of a task hitting Flash.

The spell can't be used any faster than Shao Khan's own brain. Flash is orders of magnitude faster than that.

One question I have? How long has Flash been running before this battle. If he runs too long this happens

That's Barry Allen running so fast for so long his molecules got sucked into the Speed Force and he killed himself. When you best asset is also your biggest weakness, it doesn't bode well for you in a fight.

He'd start from a dead stop. Same as Khan. That's a complete non-issue.

 

[nightmare]

I think many people are forgetting that Kahn can open portals which could prove useful. Getting Flash in one would be a task, but when\if he does- Flash is gone. Speed is great, but it means jack when your stuck on another world away from the action.


Also here is a big one. The Emperors Shield has stopped some of the most powerful attacks in the MK universe. If he can even just bounce Flash back that gives him an opening to use his most lethal attack. He can steal his soul. Yeah, he has that power and it just takes a split-second to conjure, thus paralyzing the opponent and sucking his soul out. Even if Flash is just temporarily stunned or his attack is deflected- that gives Kahn the chance to end this.

Vote for the ruler of Outworld, Shao Kahn.

 

[Dirk]

Shenanigans! Last year's Flash vs Hulk battle gave precident for regular Earth physics not being allowed in this fantasy world. The sped-up flash cannot throw punches with fifteen million pounds of force, but the trade-off is that he gets to survive at the speed he's moving. His punches do have more power and according to DC physics it still is plenty powerful.

Having said that, I'm still voting Flash. I think the element of surprise will count in his favour. If Shao Kahn knew more about the Flash, he could most likely take this one, but the tournament stipulations only allows a name...