ROH to Destination America; Airing Before Impact Starting June 3rd

[johnbragg]

For what this is worth, it’s a little frustrating to see everyone – and I do mean literally everyone – on social media, and in our own comments section, jumping all over this being a bad sign for TNA.

I'll point out that "everyone" includes MVP, who knows more about the wrestling business than I do and obviously has more at stake.

But this is almost certainly bad for TNA. A week ago, what was the biggest thing TNA had that ROH didn't? A US cable TV timeslot. Well, ROH just closed the gap.

And if ROH is getting less money from DA than TNA does per hour, then DA has a lot more leverage in September to either dump TNA or coerce them to take a pay cut.

Over the last two weeks, DA has replaced the "Mike Tenay Impact Unlocked" show and the "TNA's Greatest MAtches" show with ROH. How is that not bad for TNA?

The general consensus is that D.A. picked up ROH as a cheaper alternative,

Mike Killam, you do disagree with that part? Do you think ROH is getting the same money per hour as TNA?

and will be using Impact to get them over before dumping them in September. That makes very little sense to me.

That's one possibility, that DA is exploring replacing TNA with ROH. Bad for TNA.

Another possibility is using ROH as a benchmark for what DA pays TNA. Bad for TNA.

Or, possibly, ROH is being brought in because DA believes in wrestling. ROH is probably a better lead-in for Impact than...whatever else DA has.

Why build up an entirely new brand most are unfamiliar with on your network, when you already have a show that’s under-performing?

Don't assume that TNA Wrestling or Impact Wrestling is so much more established a brand than Ring of Honor. It'll be very interesting to see what kind of ratings ROH and Impact do when they're both on the same channel.

It makes more sense that D.A. picked up ROH in a last ditch effort to save Impact, giving them a more cost-effective lead-in program on a new night, that will do nothing but bring in more core demographic viewers. If anything, this is a MAJOR sign that the network doesn’t have plans to cancel TNA in the fall.

That's one interpretation, but not the most likely one.

It's also very possible that Dixie Carter has alienated Destination America executives. It's widely rumored that TNA had no notice of this.

According to internet rumors:
Carter wasn't at the first TNA-DA taping, and DA wasn't pleased.
DA wasn't happy about taping Impact in the UK.
Rumors are that DA isn't thrilled with the ratings.
Dixie Carter called the DA suits "dummies" in an email, and cc'ed the #1 DA suit.

Also--my suggestion--that maybe DA wasn't happy that the TV production crew had to threaten a work stoppage to get their back pay, on a day that Impact was taped to show that day.

Maybe DA has discovered that Dixie Carter isn't someone you want to be in business with, and they're exploring options.

 

[ECPirate37]

To me, there is so much speculation going on, but very few people know exactly what is going on. And to me, those few work at Destination America. One thing I do know, is that by October we will know whether TNA is still there or not.

I see both sides of this. I could see Destination America saying, "HEY, TNA got us our biggest ratings ever, let's see if more wrestling could do the same thing!" and added ROH.

ORRRR

Maybe they do want to stay in the wrestling business but want a reduction in costs so TNA will be gone, and ROH will go to two hours.

To me, it would make logical sense to keep both, and try to broker a deal where they cross promote, and some wrestlers even wrestle on both shows. But, instead of predicting anything without knowing facts from Destination America; I'll just be excited that for the summer I'll be getting 3 hours of wrestling instead of two.

In the short time, it is a WIN for wrestling.

 

[MINISTRYrising]

While this is without a doubt bad news for TNA, its great news for wrestling fans and of course ROH. Ring of honor is a great company and a lot of there roster will be recognizable to TNA fans as many of them have worked for the company, like Christopher Daniels, Kaz and Chris Sabin. Also the likes of AJ Styles, Alberto El Patron and Samoa Joe all make appearances for the company and with there arrangement with NJPW they also have access to many stars from the Orient. So having ROH appear before TNA every week could mean they end up losing there fan base to them and end up with far fewer views then they currently have.

 

[nightmare]

Great move for ROH.

DA getting ROH on board for less than TNA makes sense. If they dump Impact, it isnt without reason & this shows they are not willing to put up with Dixies shenanigans. Hell if nothing else, a little direct competition from the new lead in show from ROH may cause TNA to step up and tighten their game a bit. If they can do that, it may look better for them before the axe falls.

Either way, ROH is getting a chance to show what they got to a larger audience. This is awesome because they have a great product & I bet more people will enjoy what some of us already do.

 

[Captain Trips]

All I know for sure is that Wednesday night will be a good night for wrestling fans.

I faithfully watched TNA until it was moved to Friday night. I'm usually out on Fridays.
Same with ROH being on a Saturday. I'm just not around to watch.

So the move to Wednesday for both companies excites me greatly.
Hopefully the TNA cancellation rumors are just that...rumors.
If so, then Wednesday will be my favorite night of TV.

 

[ECW]

They announced that TNA had been cancelled on Friday nights, if I recall. They then allowed them to move to Wednesday. Their contract is up in September. God only knows whether TNA can step up their product to stay on the air.

I love ROH. Innovative wrestling and a number of great characters without being too gimmicky (well, except Cheeseburger and Brutal Bob.) I'm willing to let some of this all play out for the summer and then see where we are before getting my panties in a twist.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

They announced that TNA had been cancelled on Friday nights, if I recall. They then allowed them to move to Wednesday. Their contract is up in September. God only knows whether TNA can step up their product to stay on the air.

I love ROH. Innovative wrestling and a number of great characters without being too gimmicky (well, except Cheeseburger and Brutal Bob.) I'm willing to let some of this all play out for the summer and then see where we are before getting my panties in a twist.

This is revisionist history. They signed a two-year contract with Destination America starting in January of 2015. In what mathematical world does that equal "their contract is up in September"?

The rumor/report is that DA cancelled, or will be canceling all TNA programming as of third quarter 2015, which is September-ish.

 

[ECW]

This is revisionist history. They signed a two-year contract with Destination America starting in January of 2015. In what mathematical world does that equal "their contract is up in September"?

The rumor/report is that DA cancelled, or will be canceling all TNA programming as of third quarter 2015, which is September-ish.

The report is that TNA is history. I'm not buying that. Yet. Because…

Dixie added that they are planning for 2016 but would not comment on reports of Destination America having an "out clause" in September due to legal advice. Dixie did add that out clauses in TV deals are common.

 

[Lowdown]

I'm of the belief that it's not over til it's over. Being that ROH is an hour-long show compared to TNA, the former seems like a cheaper alternative. It does strike me as odd that DA would decide to air two wrestling promotions on the same night back to back. I doubt this is their way of pushing TNA out, especially if they're still gonna be sorting through September. And maybe there's a chance that viewership will carry over from ROH into Impact. I guess we'll find out on June 3rd.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

I'm of the belief that it's not over til it's over. Being that ROH is an hour-long show compared to TNA, the former seems like a cheaper alternative. It does strike me as odd that DA would decide to air two wrestling promotions on the same night back to back. I doubt this is their way of pushing TNA out, especially if they're still gonna be sorting through September. And maybe there's a chance that viewership will carry over from ROH into Impact. I guess we'll find out on June 3rd.

It makes all the sense in the world why they'd push TNA out — they are expensive to produce, the brand is damaged, and they probably aren't making DA a lot of money due to their struggle to pull in advertising.

So, you bring in ROH on syndication (a fraction of the cost of airing IMPACT, and footing their bills), use IMPACT to boost ROH's numbers, and when your 26-week trial is done (or before) when the ratings are where you want them (assuming they draw), you cut the cord with the expensive product for the inexpensive one.

 

[Weems2k]

I don't see how having both shows on back-to-back makes any difference. If the reports are that Impact is DA's highest rated show, yet advertisers don't want to spend ad time during that show. Then what good does it do to have 2 shows that may bump up the ratings a bit if the advertisers don't want anything to do with wrestling. It's still gonna cost DA money no matter what brand they might decide to keep.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

I don't see how having both shows on back-to-back makes any difference. If the reports are that Impact is DA's highest rated show, yet advertisers don't want to spend ad time during that show. Then what good does it do to have 2 shows that may bump up the ratings a bit if the advertisers don't want anything to do with wrestling. It's still gonna cost DA money no matter what brand they might decide to keep.

That's my issue as well. If advertisers avoid TNA, which has a far bigger audience and more brand awareness than ROH (hence more eyes for their products), why in the world would they find ROH more appealing?

Yes DA will save money, but in that case ROH will just be there. Even if they get to TNA's ratings somehow, the issue will remain to be the same as TNA. They draw ratings, but they cost too much to produce and advertisers shy away from them. Because you know ROH wants to grow. They want funding. Just like TNA makes money, ROH wants to make money.

Something else is going on here ...

 

[johnbragg]

That's my issue as well. If advertisers avoid TNA, which has a far bigger audience and more brand awareness than ROH

Do they? Maybe outside the "wrestling bubble", the difference between TNA and ROH is a rounding error.

Analogy: If TNA decided they could do the same numbers with EC3, MVP and Magnus that they could with Styles, Joe and Sting, for a lot less money is it crazy to ask if DA could do the same numbers with ROH as they could with TNA, for a lot less money?

(hence more eyes for their products), why in the world would they find ROH more appealing?

Maybe in terms of advertiser appeal, ROH = TNA. But ROH is cheaper.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

Do they? Maybe outside the "wrestling bubble", the difference between TNA and ROH is a rounding error.

Analogy: If TNA decided they could do the same numbers with EC3, MVP and Magnus that they could with Styles, Joe and Sting, for a lot less money is it crazy to ask if DA could do the same numbers with ROH as they could with TNA, for a lot less money?



Maybe in terms of advertiser appeal, ROH = TNA. But ROH is cheaper.

Well, no one outside of the "wrestling bubble" is watching these programs, so the importance of the active audience you call a wrestling bubble is pretty much in your face.


More wrestling fans know about TNA. Currently, more wrestling fans watch TNA (for a number of reasons). Is that true, or is it not true? Only question you need to answer. It's a yes or no question.

And I completely understand the analogy, it's how every business should operate. However, even if ROH is a fraction of the cost of TNA, it's still leaving money on the table if there's no return on investment. Will ROH draw an audience? Will advertisers be into it? If these things happen, will Destination America drop it as well? Answer: yes.

It seems that ROH will give them the same headache TNA does, but for less money and still no ROI. If I could pick between losing $1,000 or 100, I'd probably go with the third secret option of losing $0. What? Do we think Destination America is ready to continuously bleed out drop by drop? They're not a large network, they need their money. At least TNA brought them close to a million viewers, that has to account for something. ROH likely won't reach that viewing audience, but just because they'll lose less money with ROH than with TNA, and still not make any, that's a good business decision? In what parallel universe is that logical?

 

[It's Damn Real!]

I don't see how having both shows on back-to-back makes any difference. If the reports are that Impact is DA's highest rated show, yet advertisers don't want to spend ad time during that show. Then what good does it do to have 2 shows that may bump up the ratings a bit if the advertisers don't want anything to do with wrestling. It's still gonna cost DA money no matter what brand they might decide to keep.

And far less if they keep the syndicated show, provided it can equal or exceed the ratings TNA gets them right now. Hence the 26-week trial.

So again, it's simple — run the trial with ROH, and if they match or exceed the expectations, you keep them and drop IMPACT, because IMPACT is a product whose bills you foot. ROH is a syndicated program you pay to air.

 

[johnbragg]

Well, no one outside of the "wrestling bubble" is watching these programs, so the importance of the active audience you call a wrestling bubble is pretty much in your face.


More wrestling fans know about TNA. Currently, more wrestling fans watch TNA (for a number of reasons). Is that true, or is it not true? Only question you need to answer. It's a yes or no question.

More people watch TNA. In a little over a week, though, we'll know how much TNA's brand etc is worth compared to ROH in terms of TV audience.

It seems that ROH will give them the same headache TNA does, but for less money and still no ROI. If I could pick between losing $1,000 or 100, I'd probably go with the third secret option of losing $0. What? Do we think Destination America is ready to continuously bleed out drop by drop? They're not a large network, they need their money. At least TNA brought them close to a million viewers, that has to account for something.

What? No they didn't. The info I'm googling up is limited to men 25-54 and/or people 25-54, but:
DA says for Jan 2015, an average of 276000 P25-54 and a peak of 345000.
DA Press release
TV By The Numbers says 359000 adults 18-49 for the debut
Some website quoting someone else

It's not the complete picture, but that's not a million viewers. There was a huge dropoff from basic-cable Spike TV to premium-package DA

ROH likely won't reach that viewing audience,

That's the question, isn't it? ROH has never been on a platform as big as DA before. Who says that ROH on DA doesn't get the same quarter- to a half-million viewers that TNA gets?

but just because they'll lose less money with ROH than with TNA, and still not make any, that's a good business decision? In what parallel universe is that logical?

It's possible that they lose money showing ROH, and dump pro wrestling entirely.

It's also possible that DA made a strategic decision to show pro wrestling, and that ROH can give them all or most of what TNA gives them at a lower cost.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

More people watch TNA. In a little over a week, though, we'll know how much TNA's brand etc is worth compared to ROH in terms of TV audience.



What? No they didn't. The info I'm googling up is limited to men 25-54 and/or people 25-54, but:
DA says for Jan 2015, an average of 276000 P25-54 and a peak of 345000.
DA Press release
TV By The Numbers says 359000 adults 18-49 for the debut
Some website quoting someone else

It's not the complete picture, but that's not a million viewers. There was a huge dropoff from basic-cable Spike TV to premium-package DA



That's the question, isn't it? ROH has never been on a platform as big as DA before. Who says that ROH on DA doesn't get the same quarter- to a half-million viewers that TNA gets?



It's possible that they lose money showing ROH, and dump pro wrestling entirely.

It's also possible that DA made a strategic decision to show pro wrestling, and that ROH can give them all or most of what TNA gives them at a lower cost.

Either way, I'm fine with all outcomes except the one where wrestling goes to hell. I hope to God I'm wrong. If ROH can bring in numbers equal or better than TNA - sweet. Assuming they don't ask for more money. If DA keeps both - even better. Cross promotion HAS to happen. But personally, I have my doubts about ROH's popularity. I think it's only popular because of a loud minority. But maybe I'm wrong. Hope so.

Personally, I'm pumped for a cross brand thing. Let's say TNA is fine and ROH is pulling TNA numbers. ROH has a lot of former TNA guys. The storyline writes itself.

Hell, ROH bleeds into TNA. The two shows can be separate but also deal with joint storylines. Especially if they're both live. You never know who's gonna show up where and do what.

If that's what DA is aiming for then fine. This whole discussion about advertising and this and that is all based on the premise that Meltzer is right when he could very well be wrong, or partially wrong. For all we know this signing changed everything.

I just know that as of next week I'll be watching ROH and giving it a fair shot. Knowing myself I'll probably like it as much as TNA. I just never had access to it. Hope more fans are of the same mindset.

 

[LightyKD]

I'm new here but I just wanted to drop a small line. I think this deal could be awesome for both shows. I made a long post (on another wrestling forum) about how Destination America could treat both shows in the same way WWE did their brand split. Sadly I was never able to turn that thought into a decent conversation. For now things look rocky but the phrase is "not renewing" and not "canceled" so that gives me a bit of hope until September.

 

[rmp0012002]

DA can remove TNA from their schedule but I would have to think, with a year and a half on their contract, that DA has to pay the remaining time. I can see not renewing when the contract is up but this deal is really only a few months old.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

DA can remove TNA from their schedule but I would have to think, with a year and a half on their contract, that DA has to pay the remaining time. I can see not renewing when the contract is up but this deal is really only a few months old.

I see what you mean, but if the reports are true then their partnership has an out-clause for Destination America. It's sort of a test period for TNA. The reason why they didn't just sign a 9 month test period much like ROH did was likely because they wanted to sweeten the deal for TNA so negotiations would go through faster. In reality, DA knew that if after 9 months TNA is underperforming they'll give them the ax without a breach of contract.

TNA was either stupid or desperate to even accept this in the first place. They either didn't think it would happen, or knew it could but had no other choice. Normally, companies would shy away from an out clause that is so in favor of the network. However, it's likely TNA has a similar clause.

But it could be that out clauses are standard in these partnerships, I wouldn't know. I know that an out clause makes the most sense.

 

[Sexcellence of Sexecution]

This is genius on behalf of the network.

With TNA you have a show that delivers solid enough ratings for your channel, but is very expensive to produce and has a branding that most people associate with tits and ass, thereby making it hard for sponsors to commit. So you bring in a somewhat less known wrestling company in ROH, a company that up to this point has definitely had much less TV exposure in comparison to TNA. You make that show the lead-in to TNA for several months, to grab the attention of wrestling fans who may watch TNA but haven't gotten a chance to check out ROH. In doing this you're effectively using TNA to boost up the numbers for ROH, then once ROH has been built up, you drop TNA since it costs too much and you're left with a wrestling show that is much less expensive but now has a much larger audience than it normally would have. Then you hope that this move puts TNA under so that your new company ROH can maybe scoop some of their talent.

Genius.

 

[GhettoV1]

WWE will buy the tape library and some contracts and trademarks related to TNA. Some of the talent will either go to ROH, GFW and/or AAA/ LU. And who ever is left will either go to Indy feds, Japan or retire.