Ricky Steamboat In The Monday Night War?

[The Brain]

I just got done watching Ricky Steamboat vs. Stunning Steve Austin from Clash of Champions in 1994 on classics on demand. This was the match in which Steamboat suffered a back injury that ended his career. It was a shame that the wrestling world so suddenly lost a talent like Steamboat. While it was disappointing that Steamboat had to go I find the timing of this injury interesting. This was about one month after Hulk Hogan debuted in WCW and one year before the Monday night war kicked off. I can’t help but wonder how Steamboat would have done during the Monday night war. I can see four different possibilities.

First let’s go over a scenario that may be hard for some to imagine. 1996 was all about surprises. Of course the nwo was the hot thing in 1996 and Hulk Hogan turning heel and becoming the leader was the most shocking story in years. What might have been even more shocking is if Ricky Steamboat joined the nwo. Steamboat was a rare case as he was a babyface his entire career. Never once did he wrestle as a heel. I could see Bischoff wanting to do something shocking by turning Steamboat heel and putting him with the nwo. If this was to happen I picture Steamboat eventually getting lost in the nwo shuffle. How do you think Steamboat would have fared in the nwo?

The next, and probably most likely scenario, is Steamboat being one of the leaders of WCW and taking on the nwo. With Steamboat’s credibility and popularity I think he would be a natural leader and could have formed an unlikely partnership with former rival Ric Flair. I think Steamboat would have been a better choice than Luger to feud with Hogan in 1997. Even if he didn’t go after Hogan directly I could see Steamboat in the role of DDP against the nwo. I think the fans would have been really behind him and Steamboat would have reached new heights in popularity.

The third scenario is Steamboat simply gets lost in the shuffle of the large WCW roster. He floats around the mid card going months at a time without any storylines. He feels wrestling in the late 90s has passed him by and quietly retires sometime in 1997.

The fourth scenario could be a result of the third. Steamboat would be ignored in WCW but instead of retiring he returns to the WWF. As a life long WWF fan I would have loved that. I’m not sure how Steamboat would have fit in during the attitude era, but I would have loved to see him against Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, and Owen Hart. It’s hard to picture Steamboat in the WWF in the late 90s, but it could have worked. I don’t think he would have ever been world champion, but he could have been a good contender. I picture him in the upper mid card and occasional main events before retiring early in 1999.

So what do you guys think? Which of the four scenarios is the most likely? Is there another option that I didn’t think about, or maybe you’d like to tweak one of my four? What would have become of Ricky Steamboat had he not been injured in 1994?

 

[mister_b1LL]

I would have liked to have seen Steamboat finish his career in WWF. It would remind me of how Griffey started and ended his career with the Seattle Mariners. It would be like Steamboat is giving back to the company that helped him get famous. Last year we kinda experieced that too when we saw him back in action at WrestleMania.

 

[TheAnimal]

I think had he been in WCW, whether he joined NWO right away or lead the WCW faction from the off, he would have gone heel at some point. Especially when WCW were waning a bit but he probably would have dropped down the ranks a bit in WCW.

I cant imagine what he would have done in attitude era WWF apart from jobbing to people like Val Venis to make them bigger stars.

 

[Goliath Uterus]

I think had he been in WCW, whether he joined NWO right away or lead the WCW faction from the off, he would have gone heel at some point. Especially when WCW were waning a bit but he probably would have dropped down the ranks a bit in WCW.

I cant imagine what he would have done in attitude era WWF apart from jobbing to people like Val Venis to make them bigger stars.

There are so many things wrong about this post. First off, Steamboat would NOT have joined the NWO and turned heel, there is a reason why Steamboat was never a heel. And second, i dont think he would have ever "dropped down the ranks in wcw" do you know who we're talking about here? Ricky fucking Steamboat, he is one of the most popular wrestlers of all time on par w/ Ric Flair, a guy like that doesn't just get lost in the shuffle. And your last sentance, do you seriously think that Ricky Steamboat would ever job to Val Venis in any sitiuation? If you do you are a complete fool that doesnt know the first thing about wrestling, and your making me doubt that you even know who Ricky Steamboat is. I'm almost positive that if Steamboat had never been injured, he would have been a upper midcard/occasional ME guy the rest of his career before retiring, its hard to say how he would have affected the MN wars but I think the outcome would have remained the same.

 

[natlee75]

There are so many things wrong about this post. First off, Steamboat would NOT have joined the NWO and turned heel, there is a reason why Steamboat was never a heel.

I couldn't disagree with you more. There's a reason they turned Hulk Hogan heel, a reason they turned so many "fan favorites" heel to join the nWo. Bischoff et al were looking for shock factor to completely dominate the WWF. Even more shocking than Hogan turning heel would have been Steamboat turning heel *precisely* because he had never been heel before.

Bischoff would most certainly have done this. Whether Steamboat would have agreed is a whole other question.

And second, i dont think he would have ever "dropped down the ranks in wcw" do you know who we're talking about here? Ricky fucking Steamboat, he is one of the most popular wrestlers of all time on par w/ Ric Flair, a guy like that doesn't just get lost in the shuffle.

He was virtually a nobody during his second WWF stint, and almost got lost in the shuffle upon his return to WCW before they decided to let him hold some of the secondary titles (Tag, then TV, then U.S. with a World shot in between). Of course, that was the "old" WCW.

In the "new" WCW with its nWo, its Nitro, its live programs, etc. and so forth, I don't find it at all hard to believe that Steamboat would have been "lost in the shuffle" or at the very least demoted to a second tier player. Bischoff and his cronies were busy promoting big names like Hall, Nash, Hogan, etc. Flair managed to stay relevant because Flair is, well, Flair, but unless you were one of the absolute top dogs like Luger, Sting, Flair, etc., you were hardly main eventing or being a part of any really important storylines.

And your last sentance, do you seriously think that Ricky Steamboat would ever job to Val Venis in any sitiuation? If you do you are a complete fool that doesnt know the first thing about wrestling, and your making me doubt that you even know who Ricky Steamboat is.

On the contrary, you opining that Steamboat would never job to Venis speaks more of *your* lack of knowledge of wrestling at the time. Like I pointed out earlier, Steamboat was a virtual *nobody* during his second stint with the WWF. During his first stint, he held the I-C title after that awesome match with Savage, but that's about it - he never regained any momentum after that.

Venis was pushed *hard* (no pun intended) when he debuted. The gimmick was a perfect fit and embodiment of "The Attitude Era" personality of the product. If you don't think Venis would have gone over Steamboat big time, you must only be thinking of Venis as he was this past decade as opposed to how over he was in the late 90's.

I'm almost positive that if Steamboat had never been injured, he would have been a upper midcard/occasional ME guy the rest of his career before retiring, its hard to say how he would have affected the MN wars but I think the outcome would have remained the same.

If he stayed in WCW, that's certainly a possibility. I think he would have been upper midcard *at best* as he would never have really fit in well during the nWo era, during the Goldberg years, all the way to the end of WCW.

If he jumped to WWF, he would have been right back to his gaudy dragon tights, the headdress, the torch, etc. He would have remained a relic of the past. The only reason he even got that mini push against Jericho last year (was it last year?) was because he was a legend and pretty freakin' good in the ring for his age.

 

[TheAnimal]

There are so many things wrong about this post. First off, Steamboat would NOT have joined the NWO and turned heel, there is a reason why Steamboat was never a heel. And second, i dont think he would have ever "dropped down the ranks in wcw" do you know who we're talking about here? Ricky fucking Steamboat, he is one of the most popular wrestlers of all time on par w/ Ric Flair, a guy like that doesn't just get lost in the shuffle. And your last sentance, do you seriously think that Ricky Steamboat would ever job to Val Venis in any sitiuation? If you do you are a complete fool that doesnt know the first thing about wrestling, and your making me doubt that you even know who Ricky Steamboat is. I'm almost positive that if Steamboat had never been injured, he would have been a upper midcard/occasional ME guy the rest of his career before retiring, its hard to say how he would have affected the MN wars but I think the outcome would have remained the same.

First off, remembering that wrestling is booked here, WCW would have tried to get him to is what i am saying. To anyone with half a brain that would be a HUGE ratings pull, because i DO know exactly who Ricky Steamboat is and the first heel turn joining NWO would have been massive. He most likely would have dropped down the ranks because it got very political in WCW at the NWO time with Hogan etc and Bischoff went through money like water at that time so with all the big names coming in, there would have had to be guys pushed down a bit.
WCW had Bret fucking Hart to paraphrase what you said, and he more or less got lost there, they didnt know what to do with him so its not impossible to imagine they would fuck up with their use of Ricky Steamboat.
And knowing more than the first thing about wrestling, he clearly loves the industry and only a complete fool would think that he would not put over younger guys to create new stars, and i didnt mean it would be Val specifically but in 1998 he was a new guy that they were pushing, he had an IC title reign in 1999 so they were kinda serious about him. Steamboat would have worked his arse off as usual and made that guy look a star (whoever it was). Steamboat is clearly not the guy to be shitting himself about "keeping his spot" so saying he wouldnt put people over makes me wonder if you know who he is or how the wrestling business works.

 

[Goliath Uterus]

First off, remembering that wrestling is booked here,

A shocker, no doubt, whats next, you gonna tell me Undertaker isnt really dead?

WCW would have tried to get him to is what i am saying. To anyone with half a brain that would be a HUGE ratings pull, because i DO know exactly who Ricky Steamboat is and the first heel turn joining NWO would have been massive.

While it would have been massive(at first), it would have been ridiculous and eventually aborted cause it would lose steam and eventually no one would have cared. Steamboat isnt the type of guy who could fit in with the NWO crowd, they were all heels, but they acted cool and hip and the fans got into them, Steamboat would have certainly been on the other side of things, fighting the good fight cause thats what he's best at and thats what he's always done, plus NWO didnt need anymore fucking members.

WCW had Bret fucking Hart to paraphrase what you said, and he more or less got lost there, they didnt know what to do with him so its not impossible to imagine they would fuck up with their use of Ricky Steamboat.

Yes, but Ricky Steamboat was a proven commodity in WCW, Bret Hart came in, and they didnt know what the fuck to do with him, he didnt fit in WCW and poor booking only made it worse.

And knowing more than the first thing about wrestling, he clearly loves the industry and only a complete fool would think that he would not put over younger guys to create new stars,.

Stop with the insults, they're arent working, and I never claimed he wouldn't put over younger "guys" just that he would have never, ever been put in a situation where he would job out to Val Venis.

Steamboat would have worked his arse off as usual and made that guy look a star (whoever it was). Steamboat is clearly not the guy to be shitting himself about "keeping his spot" so saying he wouldnt put people over makes me wonder if you know who he is or how the wrestling business works.

You constantly stating that you know who the wrestling buisness works certainly makes it seem as if you have no idea how the wrestling buisness works (I dont know how but it does) and like I said before, I'm not saying Steamboat wouldn't job to Venis cause he's an asshole and would refuse to put him over, it's just that he would have never been put in that kinda position. I've said it before and I'll say it again, no matter how long Steamboats career would've lasted, he would have never, never been a heel.

 

[Goliath Uterus]

I couldn't disagree with you more. There's a reason they turned Hulk Hogan heel, a reason they turned so many "fan favorites" heel to join the nWo. Bischoff et al were looking for shock factor to completely dominate the WWF. Even more shocking than Hogan turning heel would have been Steamboat turning heel *precisely* because he had never been heel before.

I couldn't disagree with YOU more, they already had a shitton of people in NWO and there is a reason (a damn good one, im about to say it) that Steamboat was never a heel, cause he didnt have enough natural charisma to get over as a heel, but always had a special thing that made people cheer for him, he would have been one of the guys fucking with NWO week in and week out, but he would have never joined them.

Bischoff would most certainly have done this. Whether Steamboat would have agreed is a whole other question.

Yet another reason why he would have never been a heel, and I dont even think Bischoff and Russo are stupid enough to think of turning Steamboat heel(well, maybe Russo).

On the contrary, you opining that Steamboat would never job to Venis speaks more of *your* lack of knowledge of wrestling at the time. Like I pointed out earlier, Steamboat was a virtual *nobody* during his second stint with the WWF. During his first stint, he held the I-C title after that awesome match with Savage, but that's about it - he never regained any momentum after that.
Venis was pushed *hard* (no pun intended) when he debuted. The gimmick was a perfect fit and embodiment of "The Attitude Era" personality of the product. If you don't think Venis would have gone over Steamboat big time, you must only be thinking of Venis as he was this past decade as opposed to how over he was in the late 90's.

Well you thinking he would redebut with the same charecter proves YOUR lack of knowledge (since you wanna go there) of wrestling at the time, unlike what you think, I don't think (i actuall know) they would (never) have him go right back to the old cheesy dragon gimmick (it wasnt the 80's) it would have been a more edgey charecter to fit in with the times, and I think he would have gotten a pretty nice push, I mean, why would they even bring Steamboat in from WCW unless they were planning on at least giving him a midcard title run?

If he jumped to WWF, he would have been right back to his gaudy dragon tights, the headdress, the torch,

Like I already stated, why the hell would they bring in a guy to re-debut a gimmick that they know wouldnt work?

As stated before in my last two posts Steamboat would have NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER been a heel, it just wouldn't have happened, I promise.

 

[TheAnimal]

At the time when WCW was trying to get people to tune in by 'wowing' people each week and then later getting desperate i would bet my house that they would have made him go heel. With the very political nature of the business, especially around that time in WCW i think it would have been made very difficult for him not to turn heel. It isnt hard to imagine that he would have wrestled Hogan on PPV maybe, maybe even a couple of times, made Hogan look great but do the valiant face job and then not long after join the NWO. Not every member of the NWO should be (or have been) charismatic etc, Steamboat would have got over in the NWO because they would have had all their cockiness and then they'd of had the guy who could back it up in the ring. Had he still been wrestling, maybe he would join the Wolfpac but i would almost gurantee that he would have turned heel.

With the Bret Hart thing, the point i was trying to make was that a) they had great wrestlers that they made victims of incompetent booking and b) with the amount of money they were throwing around on him and many others they had, Luger had been signed back in 1996, obviously Hogan, Nash, Hall, X-pac etc they would have been more inclined to try and gain some back, spending money to make money. Obviously there are exceptions, like Bret Hart, and obviously they fucked that up too.

At the time Steamboat would have been in the twilight of their career and WWE were creating people, Val Venis was the first name that popped into my head, but it is imaginable that on a PPV or something they would have wrestled and he would have put him over. It doesnt have to be Val, it could have been say a Ken Shamrock, Goldust, member of DX or Nation. At thatr point in his career he wouldnt have needed the victories but the younger guys would have and beating a guy like Steamboat along with getting to be in the ring with him/learning from him would have been very beneficial.

 

[dd23beatlesfan1]

I've been meaning to respond to this post as a I think it's a great one with a highly interesting scenario/topic.

I'll start off by giving my thoughts on each scenario/point in The Brain's excellent post.....

First let’s go over a scenario that may be hard for some to imagine. 1996 was all about surprises. Of course the nwo was the hot thing in 1996 and Hulk Hogan turning heel and becoming the leader was the most shocking story in years. What might have been even more shocking is if Ricky Steamboat joined the nwo. Steamboat was a rare case as he was a babyface his entire career. Never once did he wrestle as a heel. I could see Bischoff wanting to do something shocking by turning Steamboat heel and putting him with the nwo. If this was to happen I picture Steamboat eventually getting lost in the nwo shuffle. How do you think Steamboat would have fared in the nwo?

This would have certainly been one of the most shocking moments in wrestling history had it occurred. Other than Hogan, there probably was no wrestler in wrestling who was more identified as a good guy than Ricky Steamboat. But to be honest I don't think it would've happened. For a number of reasons. One, I'm really honestly not so sure that Steamboat would've been enough of a priority in the eyes of Eric Bischoff to do something this major with, and have him play a major role in the NWO storyline. It's highly possible that Steamboat wouldn't have been a priority at all and he may have gotten pushed down the card to provide the steak of the Nitro programs by having good matches. Two, if I'm wrong and Bischoff would've considered this idea, I really don't think Steamboat would've agreed to it. Steamboat was obviously content playing the role of a babyface for most of his career. Although he did once try to ask Pat Patterson to turn him heel in the WWF, which was when Patterson made the infamous quote of something like "Ricky, we could have you go out to the ring and slaughter a guy with a chainsaw, and the crowd would still cheer you. You can't be a heel." However, I'm not sure Steamboat even if he wanted to be a heel would've wanted to be an NWO styled heel. He did have kids at the time and I'm not convinced he would've wanted to play a gang member type heel (which was basically what the NWO was).

But to play along, had Steamboat joined the NWO, it would've been shocking and it would've made for some good TV. Steamboat joining would've been a huge coupe in the eyes of the fans. Another beloved hero abandoning WCW for the NWO would've added more weight to the story. Of course Steamboat could've been the workhorse of the group along with Savage and provided some excellent matches. It would be interesting to see how much of Steamboat's wrestling style would've changed with him being a heel. His style is so babyface-orientated could he have changed his routines and wrestled more like a heel? If he wrestled his normal style, it could've created conflicts with the psychology and character of the NWO though. If he had joined though, he would've obviously been in Hogan's shadow like the rest of the group was, although the Dragon would've been fine in that role.

The next, and probably most likely scenario, is Steamboat being one of the leaders of WCW and taking on the nwo. With Steamboat’s credibility and popularity I think he would be a natural leader and could have formed an unlikely partnership with former rival Ric Flair. I think Steamboat would have been a better choice than Luger to feud with Hogan in 1997. Even if he didn’t go after Hogan directly I could see Steamboat in the role of DDP against the nwo. I think the fans would have been really behind him and Steamboat would have reached new heights in popularity.

This scenario in my eyes is more likely to occur, well at least half-way. I think Steamboat would've more likely been used in the role as one of the defenders of WCW, at least initially. If your scenario played out completely this would've also made for awesome TV. As one of the biggest dream matches of all-time has been Hulk Hogan vs. Ricky Steamboat. Everyone in the '80s wanted to see a babyface/babyface matchup between Hogan and Steamboat in the WWF. If WCW had went this route, this could've been another one of the dream matches that they could've offered up the fans. I agree that Steamboat would've fit in great in Luger's role as the first true defender of WCW that briefly gets the upper hand on Hogan and the NWO. He could've reached new heights of popularity if this is the direction WCW would've went with him.

However, I think Steamboat would've been used more like Flair in that he would be one of the "old guards" who defends WCW and tries their damndest but always gets beat by the NWO. Bischoff has stated countless times that he was about pushing out the old and going with the more younger, hipper, edgier storylines and wrestlers, and he was quite against the more traditional stance and background of WCW. Hence why he treated Flair like such shit. And why he attempted to make Flair and the Four Horsemen look like a worthless losers against the NWO. Steamboat was of the same "tradition" mold as Flair and I honestly think he would've been right there with Flair and the Horsemen and other "WCW traditionalists" in the ring trying their damndest to fend off the NWO only to get their asses kicked and their backs spraypainted every week. Steamboat could've had some matches with Hogan and Savage and Hall and Nash, and he would've ended up putting them over. Luger was probably seen as more marketable than Steamboat and Luger I think still would've ultimately got the mini-push he got, due to his connections with Sting who was one of Bischoff's closest friends. While Sting and DDP deserved the pushes they got, they also got them thanks to Bischoff being big fans of them and friends. Steamboat and Bischoff to the best of my knowledge were never close, and so I think Bischoff would've taken Steamboat for granted and would've just used him as a jobber to the NWO. He would've been under-utilized, like most guys in WCW that weren't Goldberg, Sting, DDP, and/or a member of the NWO.

The third scenario is Steamboat simply gets lost in the shuffle of the large WCW roster. He floats around the mid card going months at a time without any storylines. He feels wrestling in the late 90s has passed him by and quietly retires sometime in 1997.

I don't think it would've been quite this bad. I don't think Steamboat would go months without TV appearances and storylines. Well that might actually happen by the time Russo would've taken over, but I think in the first year or two of the NWO storyline, Steamboat would've been used, just not positively. I do also think Steamboat would've been used to have good matches on Nitro. Can you imagine some matches he could've had with Benoit, Jericho, Guerrero, and Malenko, or perhaps some of the heel cruiserweights? Or maybe he could've wrestled guys like Liger and Ultimo Dragon and Masa Chono, guys they brought in from Japan during the Nitro years? Heck he might've even been used in a few rare babyface matches against Booker T and Rey Mysterio? It's possible. I think Steamboat would've been used. Both to have good matches and give other mid-carders something to do, and I also think he would've been used as an early defender of WCW, just not a triumphant one.

The fourth scenario could be a result of the third. Steamboat would be ignored in WCW but instead of retiring he returns to the WWF. As a life long WWF fan I would have loved that. I’m not sure how Steamboat would have fit in during the attitude era, but I would have loved to see him against Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, and Owen Hart. It’s hard to picture Steamboat in the WWF in the late 90s, but it could have worked. I don’t think he would have ever been world champion, but he could have been a good contender. I picture him in the upper mid card and occasional main events before retiring early in 1999.

I would've loved this as well, and it's not completely impossible. Some people might think that Vince was pushing younger guys with an edgier product that Steamboat wouldn't have had a place, but in reality, that's not true. Vince was ready to bring in Ric Flair in 1998, right at the height of the Attitude Era, and have him feud with Stone Cold, had Flair not returned to WCW. So while the WWF at the time mocked WCW and their major reliance on older wrestlers, Vince still liked and would've brought in the older guys "that could still go." Steamboat would've certainly fit the bill here. Especially if had been in 1996/1997 right before the WWF went full-fledged attitude. Steamboat could've had great matches with a heel Bret Hart, Owen Hart, British Bulldog, Vader, Mankind before he turned babyface, Kane, Triple H, and of course Shawn Michaels. And the Rock while he was heel. Some might think that the fans would've turned on Steamboat for not being edgy enough, but in addition to fans of that time like edgy wrestlers, they also appreciated wrestlers who were good in the ring. Remember this was when fans were becoming smarks and getting smart to the business. So they also apprecaited wrestlers that were good workers. This is where Steamboat would've shined, and thus I think he wouldn't have been in danger of getting booed by fans. I think if Steamboat had come aboard he would've been a big part of the anti-America storyline with the Hart Foundation. Who knows, maybe he would've been a part of that 10 man tag match at Canadian Stampede instead of Goldust and or Ken Shamrock. I do think though once 98/99 hit, Steamboat would've no longer been utlizied as a main eventer/top guy and would've moved down the card to having I-C matches with guys like D-Lo Brown, Goldust, Val Venis, X-Pac, and getting them over with the crowd.

So while it's possible, I'm not sure it would've happened though. I think Steamboat would've probably stayed in WCW and finished his career there.


Out of all of your scenarios, I think a combination of the 2nd and 3rd scenario are the most likely. Steamboat would've likely been used as a legitimate threat/foe of the NWO early on, but would've ultimately put them over like the rest of the veterans of WCW did (excluding Sting and Luger), and would've also had good matches with all of the young workhoses of WCW, probably before retiring around the end of WCW and the buyout. The NWO scenario is the least likely in my view. I just wouldn't picture the Dragon willingly joining the NWO and becoming a monster heel in the process.