Retirement Matches - How Many is Too Many???

[giantwooly]

OK this is my first post so please bear with me. After watching the emotional retirement of both Ric Flair and Shawn Michaels, I have to ask the question, How many is too many? While I thought both were great draws and very emotional with them only having one Wrestlemania in between it almost seems too fast to watch this. Now I realize that people are going to retire in their own time, and we cannot control this. With taker and tips looming in the seemingly near future, how many of these can we handle before it becomes just another match?

My question and reason for posting this is do you think that retirement matches will ever become "just another match"? and if so how long before it happens?

please feel free to reply with opinions on my first post and recommendations on how I could have made it better.

 

[future admin]

WWE does that because they don't want themm to just retire, they want them to go on the biggest stage of pro wrestling. triple H will probably go out that way, and so will cena and orton when the time comes. It will never become just another match, because then, the Mike knox's and the evan bourne's will have those matches. a retirement match is meant to build legacy. and Only for the legends

 

[Midgetmania619]

It will become too many if they always return to have "1 More Match". Would The Rock or Stone Cold's retirement match have meant so much if they had so many more matches? Because they hold it off, it makes there retirement that much more special than say, Ric Flairs. His first retirement angle was in 1973, so his weren't really special for me. Retirement matches should only be done when it's a real retirement.

 

[Blue Chipper]

If retirement matches are used as frequently as gimmick matches, then they will definitely loose importance. Gimmick matches used to be a prestigious spectacle that was only used in fitting circumstances. But now they are seen monthly. The worth of the gimmick match today is valueless in comparison to how it used to be.

Retirement matches should be treated as a rare special occurrence. Once every month is overdone, once every six months is overdone, once a year is borderline. If they happen periodically, then of course it will loose significance just as the gimmick matches have.

 

[TCBT]

Technically, a retirement match means nothing more than the last match an individual wrestles. How that last match is booked is what makes it mean whatever the WWE wants it to mean.

If you look at the past, when have you really seen a wrestler be given that kind of curtain call before Ric Flair? Not Hogan. Not Rock. Not Stone Cold. That might be a new trend WWE is starting. I guess after doing such a big thing for Flair, they felt obligated to do something pretty big for Michaels as well, but that's just me speculating.

I personally enjoy it. Back in the day, retirement matches were seen fairly frequently, and the wrestler retiring, regardless of what he did for the business, did not get that kind of "final bow." It's nice to see that thankful, sensitive side of the wrestler retiring, where he breaks character and tells the fans how he/she really feels as a final good-bye. I think the fans and the wrestler both have earned that.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

Retirement matches, if not crapped on by the former superstar's return, is the most endearing match you could really witness in this sport. You are viewing someone's storybook career ending.

Now about your question...well that's not really the right question to ask. Eventually, if stars do not jump ship, quit, or have a grave misfortune, will have a retirement match. What you mean to ask is how many is too many respectively? Continuity is the problem here.

Cried when Flair left. Cried when Michaels left. But I do not think I will feel so bad if Undertaker (who I have been a mark for) and Triple H bow out. Not if it's by this year or next.

Retirement matches are suppose to be special, with that once-in-a-lifetime feel. That's why they are usually staged at Wrestlemania. So far WWE really hasn't overused a star's "last match" to sell the tickets. We all knew, inevitably soon, Michaels was goin to retire, just as much as we knew that Nature Boy should have retired years, if not decades ago in WWE.

We watched these guys do what they do best. Some of us watched these guys since their debut. Who can really say Michaels should have kept goin, knowing how long he has been on top of the mountain? Who can honestly say Taker should Main Event for as long as he is alive? We do not expect forever. We can only expect one last match.

 

[Papa Shango]

I think we have to see what happens with HBK. If he's like Flair and starts to get the "itch" again within 6 months, I think it'll be awhile before we see it done again. The WWE gave Flair and HBK these huge sendoffs because they believe that HBK is really done, just like they believed Flair was really done. And they wanted to honor their contributions to the industry. Flair and HBK are arguably the two most influential men in the history of the craft. They revolutionized the business not just from an in-ring standpoint, but from an entertainment perspective as well.

I believe HBK is done as a full time competitor. Do I think he's done with the business. No way. But I'm pretty sure's he's done as an active competitor.

BUT... IF HBK decides he wants to keep wrestling, I think the WWE will refrain from the big emotional sendoffs for awhile. Vince would probably be embarrassed by all the egg on his face. Sort of a "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice" type of deal, you know?

 

[whoopwhoop12]

If you look at the past, when have you really seen a wrestler be given that kind of curtain call before Ric Flair? Not Hogan. Not Rock. Not Stone Cold. That might be a new trend WWE is starting. I guess after doing such a big thing for Flair, they felt obligated to do something pretty big for Michaels as well, but that's just me speculating.

Exactly. Rock and Stone Cold never had what we liked to call "One More Match" because in the heat of the backstage politics and other interests, they left quietly (maybe giving off the sense that they might return one day) but never really saying that until time has surpassed and they are happy with where they are at.

Ric Flair's retirement was expected, but it was done with an appreciation for a guy who has still been wrestling even though he's the age he is.

HBK's retirement was somewhat speculative since it was his 2nd match with Undertaker and before rumors came around, some people actually believed that HBK was going to beat Taker's streak, but overall nothing was really confirmed until a leakage on radio had Shawn switch his words up and try and make it seem like his retirement wasn't going to happen.

Still HBK's retirement for having to be the type of performer, at the age he is, carrying the biggest names in wrestling today who aren't even considered that much of great 'wrestlers' and making them look better and making a story out of those matches is unbelievable.

And it kinda shows you how much Shawn Michaels was a huge asset to the WWE, the business of wrestling and to millions of people who enjoyed sports entertainment. To think within a 5 year span, Shawn Michaels somehow steals the show every year.

You would think guys like Cena or Batista, two stars that were booked to be big entities in the future of the WWE would steal shows, but looking at the article posted earlier about HBK's stats, as chosen by readers on Pro Wrestling Illustrated:

2005: vs. Kurt Angle at Wrestlemania 21
2006: vs. Vince McMahon in a No Holds Barred match at Wrestlemania 22
2007: vs. John Cena on Raw
2008: vs. Ric Flair at Wrestlemania XXIV
2009: vs. The Undertaker at Wrestlemania XXV

As you can tell with some of the participants, some are not great performers at all, some have passed their prime and some are just that damn good that a classic was made for the matchup.

But going back to the point of the thread, After guys like Undertaker and Triple H retire, it is going to be a lot harder for guys of their stature to be on that same level where they will retire in somewhat of the same grace. This is the time where I feel "the best in the WWE, will retire as THE BEST" and the WWE will recognize it, especially if it is guys like HHH, HBK or Taker because of their character they portray and how much they have put into the WWE and it will leave a huge gap for these young guns to fill (i.e. Sheamus, Swagger, DiBiase, Rhodes, McIntyre etc etc), which is why it is their time to be taking over.

Kinda funny how at age 44, Shawn Michaels can still steal the show, even for his retirement, while some of the main players in their late 20's-early 30's that are the top tier guys in WWE can't even put on a "rememberable" match unless it has a 'title' in it, which will give the match itself a little bit more signifance.

Hogan, Flair and HBK. Top 3 guys even based off of how they were involved in the industry and I can honestly say at least 1 of them can safely say they retired by being the best...ala HBK.

also...adding on. I do believe HBK is done as an in-ring wrestler. I don't believe he will be done as an employee of the WWE, but I do think he is done. Not too many people can go on national TV and truly explain to people about respecting the "stipulation" and the other wrestler in giving them the satisfaction of that last match, even after the fans are practically pleading with shawn "Please don't go" and "one more match". I think HBK will be involved but you won't be seeing him for a while on WWE TV, but I will say not too many people can retire the way HBK did, and I will say if he oddly enough comes back, I can expect him to still put on more amazing matches. Why? Because is HBK and that is what he does.

and with the crowd reactions after Mania, the fans weren't yelling "please don't go" and "one more match" with Flair, were they?

(I KNOW IM GOING ON AND ON, BUT TO AD TO THE POINT) Look at the actual wrestlers who are retiring: The ones who have retired, have retired on the same tier thus far. I don't think we will be getting an 'HBK type retirement' from guys like Kane, Goldust, Mark Henry, Chavo Guerrero or Rey Mysertio as they have been around WWE and wrestling for a long time. (unfortunately for some: I can't blame them as the performers they are, just with bad booking from the writers.)

But HBK can be given 'shit' to paint with and he make it into a "Masterpiece"...with less Chris Masters involved. Still. HHH and Taker will have the same type of send off and it will be a while till we see anyone get the same treatment.

 

[theundisputedY2D2]

It's just a case of timing. I mean a lot of people will tell you that Flair should have retired as an in-ring competitor years ago and shouldn't have hung on for as long as he did, whereas Shawn Michaels showed at Wrestlemania that on any given night he can still steal the show. But they just felt it was the right time to move on (although Flair has since stated that he was "forced" into retirement by WWE) and in Shawn's case especially he comes across as the kind of guy who's happy with his lot: He's got a wife & family, he's financially set for life, respected by his peers & the fans and the one black cloud he had left hanging over his head has been removed with his reconcilliation with Bret Hart. There's nothing else for him to do so why not go out on a high?


I'm not sure if this will become a regular thing, at the moment it's just that there's a bunch of guys coming to the end of their careers, at around the same time, who all happen to be legends. So what else is WWE supposed to do? With guys like Flair, HBK, Taker and HHH they'd be expected to be given a big send-off. Can you imagine the uproar if they weren't?! But when you look past the Undertaker & Triple H who's the next guy who'd be up for the legendary retirement angle? Chris Jericho? Batista? Big Show? I mean these guys are all getting on a bit but how long is it before they retire? And do you deem them "worthy" of the Flair/HBK treatment? I'm not saying they haven't been big stars but there's a danger that every guy who's had a good career will be given the massive send-off, and each one will mean less than the last.


Personally, I think that a retiring wrestler should be given some recognition of his career on his way out and a chance to say goodbye to the fans. I mean Dean Malenko & Lance Storm had decent careers but retired quietly & with little to no fanfare, I think they should at least have been given a chance to go out on TV with a mic and say a few words to the fans. I'm sure they would (at least) have got a polite reception from the fans in attendance - hell WWE could even wait until they were in the guy's hometown or something - and it would give the fans who've followed their careers a final chance to see them & some form of closure.

 

[RicSpade]

Well if we all remember in the 80's a loser leaves town or a retirement match was actually a big thing I remember when they ended the career of Ronnie Garvin to further the feud with Greg Valentine.

And guys who will see changes in what they do is a loser leaves Raw or Smackdown to get to the other brand.

I think as long as the retirement match has a farewell in it the next night for it to be real I think that is what will key it as an important aspect. I loved seeing Ric Flairs retirement speech (even though he is now on semi-retirement and has wrestled) for the WWE I think this is good for our top superstars, because so many people have been fans of them for months or years or even decades.

I am glad we got to say goodbye to HBK and I am happy that Bret finally got to thank everyone after his long career. If Hogan ever wants to be genuine I will be happy to see him retire fully too. I am sad that Austin was the only one to ever really get to say goodbye and The Rock went quietly but I think stars who retire shouldn't go out that way.

The WWE though has a way of making people quietly though, Jamie Noble for example retired after his career was "ended" by Sheamus. A wrestler has it announced as their final match ever in the case of Trish and Lita and that was it there wasn't a celebration or any of that. JBL says I quit at Wrestlemania and hadn't been seen since.

So it depends on who it is and what the celebration is, I honestly wanted Undertaker to exit at Survivor Series since it was the show that he debut in almost 2 decades ago and seems poetic, but were going to phase Survivor Series. I am pretty sure all the big stars will have a stage to say goodbye, and all I hope is that its going to be a five star match even if its not the main event that its a five star match.

 

[dionlyone18]

well, while nobody wants to see them, we have to admit there normally the best match on the card, and they have to retire sooner or later, the time has come for flair..so we thought...and hbk..and i just got done reading the next superstar leaving is batista after extreme rules, hes thinking about retiring but hes taking an extended leave to do the movie thing, we all know where that leads to, chris jericho is leaving for about six weeks for jury duty and hes thinking about hanging it up, khali is is gone for a while...these things happen, in about fifteen years, orton and cena will either be gone or about to leave, mvp will be gon, hhh will be gone, so on and so forth,,,the superstars we grew up watching are leaving..such a shame..but i dont think well ever see the end of retirement matches..

 

[klunderbunker]

It's not like they've been happening that often or anything. This is the second in three years. That's hardly a lot when you think about it. Also, when the weakest of the stars to get one is Shawn Michaels, that's saying a lot. Career matches are big deals and they're only given to big deals. Let's see: Michaels, Flair, Savage, Warrior, Foley. Not a bad list really, and considering one was in 1991 and there wasn't a major one off the top of my head for nearly 9 years, that's pretty freaking good. It really isn't a big deal at all as they're saved for special occasions. MITB happens more often than these do. I have no problem with how they've been done.

 

[fenfool]

I don't mind someone who has been retired in such a way coming back for a special circumstance...if HBK came back in a year or two to reform DX at WM XXX to take down someone as a one-time-only thing, I think that could be a lot of fun, and wouldn't really destroy the intent of his retirement match. Flair has stayed retired from WWE...so it kiiiiind of counts. Terry Funk having a retirement match every other month is a little overboard, but by now that's like a running joke.

What I do like is how WWE has really put some meaning behind Flair & HBK's retirement matches. They meant something, and had the appropriate attention given to them. I really don't think they would have meant the same thing if there was some sort of screwjob ending...e.g., double countout, or a run-in or something that nullifies the retirement stipulation. I think WWE has done a really great job of keeping them infrequent enough and honest enough to make them important.