Razor

[jmt225]

And I never said it was, I just said it's the best in the US today. And it's true.

Why's that exactly, Sly? And I hope your answer has nothing to do with how much money WWE makes.

There has been a ton of wrestling that has been different than what the WWE primarily showcases today that has been good.

Good to hear you say that, but ROH is definitely a part of that wrestling, and THOUSANDS of fans believe the same.

But just because something is different, doesn't mean it is good.

True, but obviously... ROH has to be somewhat good to have stuck around as long as they have and gain the audience they have (especially after what happened in 2003 with Feinstein, and the fact that they've lost so many wrestlers over the years).

And I work just as hard at my job as Roy Williams at UNC...what does that have to do with how good we do our job?

Doesn't mean you're as good, but it doesn't mean you suck, either. Working hard is a HUGE part of professional wrestling, and ROH has some of the hardest working wrestlers in the business.

I've already said that in this thread. It's because those fans are marks for offensive moves, and don't care about ANY other part of wrestling.

Not true, Sly. ROH fans mark out just as hard for a good promo or angle as they do a high spot. There is storytelling in ROH, Sly, believe it or not.

Because the only people who buy the ROH DVD are ROH fans.

Again, not true. You're not a Ring of Honor fan, but yet you have 5 DVDs from them.

Also, let's just say you're right... considering this company stayed alive from 2002-2007 solely off DVD sales, those must have been a lot of ROH fans to be buying those DVDs.

Now how about I ask YOU a question. If ROH is such good wrestling, then how come they are on the brink of financial ruin?

Because ROH isn't as good as they used to be. They were doing great business in 2005/2006. However, today... it's just not as good. Talent has taken a huge blow over the years, and plus they have a new creative team. And obviously because of those things, the company is suffering right now.

Also, if you read X and I's post on ROH the past few months, you'd know that even us are quite unhappy with the current product.

 

[justinsayne]

IDK, if ROH was putting a shit matches regularly I highly doubt WWE and TNA would constantly be trying to sign up all their talent, after all why would two of the biggest companies in the world want to sign wrestlers that couldn't work for shit?

 

[The Doctor]

I went to an indy show, just a smalltime promotion, and I was greatly entertained. There was a guy called "Lightning" Tim Lutz, and he did some crazy stuff, and the others weren't half bad.

I just wanted to throw that out there for some reason.

 

[Slyfox696]

No, you're just twisting my words. His arm did get tired for performing the chops, as anyone's arm would, but the first flurry of chops were impactful and definitely painful, you can tell from the swelling on Joe's chest. Why is it such a problem that he laid some chops on the guy in the corner? I've never heard anyone start calling out Flair for doing the same.

I didn't twist anything of yours. You still have NEVER responded to my point, just agreed with it.

Those slaps that Kobashi was hitting Joe with were weak slaps, with little force behind them. You said "yes, but only because he was tired". That doesn't change MY point though, which is if Kobashi was tired and the slaps weren't doing damage, then why would any reasonable person keep using them, when he can use a knee, a head butt, or a number of take downs or slams.

That doesn't make sense. And since Joe is getting hit by weak slaps, why does he continue to just stand there and not try to mount his own offense? And don't tell me because he's too hurt/tired, because it didn't seem to bother him when he countered later in the match, or even when he was first getting slapped, slaps that actually had force behind them.

It was stupid, unrealistic and illogical. Unrealistic isn't so bad, by itself, but the other two just confirms damnation to a match.

But seriously Sly, realistically, how could every single fucking ROH match suck? Do you like ANY match from ROH history? I mean, you know your math, do you not? The odds of every single match in thousands and thousands of matches being shit are absolutely astronomical, if not downright impossible.

Again, you fail to realize there is a difference between "like" and "good".

There have been a couple matches I have been entertained by, if there hadn't, I wouldn't have all the experience with the product I have. But it doesn't change the fact the matches weren't good.

I enjoyed watching Amazing Red, and I think it was Xavier, go through a fast paced, choreographed routine, but it doesn't change the fact it was completely bogus and unrealistic, and drew away from the workrate of the match.

I just don't know what the hell you have against ROH. You're a fan of AJ Styles and Shelton Benjamin, but ROH sucks because it's full of spot monkeys? That just doesn't make any sense to me man.

Again, you have to learn to differentiate between "enjoy" and "good". AJ Styles is one of the best workers today, Shelton Benjamin...not so much. But it doesn't change whether or not I like them though.

2002 and 2003 ROH was just getting started, those were some of the weakest cards they ever held. Night of Appreciation is a pretty good card from their first year outside of it's awful opener.

But ROH really didn't hit their stride until around 2004.

That has nothing to do with the point I was making, which is that I was experiencing ROH before John Cena, and back when I thought it was supposed to be good.

I'll have to search for it. What's your take on Danielson and Nigel? Hate them?

Potential, but was wasted in ROH, working for the mostly idiotic fans of ROH.

I just talked about that actually. That's the only time I'd consider calling a wrestler a "spot monkey", but in essence every wrestler with a patented routine of moves in their match could be called a spot monkey.

No, they couldn't, as long as the moves fit into the match logically and reasonably, which happens in the majority of those matches those guys work, when they're working non TV matches.

Still waiting to hear about how Nigel and Danielson are spot monkeys.

Still waiting on you to watch the match from Unified, or at the very least, read my review.

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?t=12564

^ There's the thread.

Yeah CM Punk has been in the WWE for less than four years and is already a multiple time World Champion.

And if he had been a good worker, he would never have gone to development, and would have been a World Champion much sooner. Hulk Hogan, for example, was WCW World Champion in his first match.

What in the fuck are you talking about? When did that become a long time to hit the main event? Took HBK, Hart, Flair, Austin, and most other major stars of wrestling much longer than that to win their first World Titles.

Yes, but they didn't have 5 hours of original live programming every week to get on the card, plus at LEAST one PPV every month.

I want you to give me an indy match that IS a good wrestling match Sly. Because I really don't believe that you could believe that all of indy wrestling sucks.

If there was such a thing, I would. Unfortunately, most Indy matches suck.

The closest I could point you to would be a Triple Threat from Unbreakable, or the first Iron Man match from Danielson and Styles. But whether TNA was an Indy at the time, given the star power of the promotion, would be up to individual fans.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I miss you replying in the Cena vs. Edge thread Sly. I'm tired of carrying the Cena mantle all by myself...lol

 

[FromTheSouth]

Ummm, you guys should be getting post count for this.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Ummm, you guys should be getting post count for this.

The greatest posts are sometimes made in the Bar Room.

 

[The Doctor]

I see what you did there, X. Your original post...

Me and X had a mini debate in the LD thread that I wish was in a non-spam section. We could continue it there... It was about whether Kofi could be accepted as a contender for the title (At least that's what I meant by it, and the fact that he could conceivably win Royal Rumble or MITB.)

 

[Slyfox696]

IDK, if ROH was putting a shit matches regularly I highly doubt WWE and TNA would constantly be trying to sign up all their talent, after all why would two of the biggest companies in the world want to sign wrestlers that couldn't work for shit?

As I said, there's a difference between quality and potential. The WWE takes those with potential, and teaches them how to work.

Just like how the majority of MLB does with pitchers. It takes them from High School or College, and puts them in the minor league farm system, to teach them how to pitch. Eventually, they'll be good pitchers, but if you took them straight from High School or College and placed them in the Majors, they'd get lit up.

Sly, to draw a parallel between Kobashi's chops/slaps and Benoit's rolling German suplexes do you think that when Chris benoit does a long chain of german suplexes and with him and his opponent getting tired from them (see: the video of him chaining 10 German suplexes on Steve Austin) and the quality of them droping noticably because of it, do you think "why the fuck is Benoit still doing German suplexes? They're starting to look shit, he should switch up his offense"? Because whatever way you look at it those suplexes are still going to be effective, tired participents or not.

There's a difference between dropping a person on their head with the help of gravity, and hitting someone with weak slaps.

Why's that exactly, Sly? And I hope your answer has nothing to do with how much money WWE makes.

Well, that's part of it, the other part of it is the focus isn't on moves, but rather the story to the match, how the match plays out, and why it plays out the way it does.

Good to hear you say that, but ROH is definitely a part of that wrestling, and THOUSANDS of fans believe the same.

Thousands, compared to the millions of fans who do not.

True, but obviously... ROH has to be somewhat good to have stuck around as long as they have and gain the audience they have (especially after what happened in 2003 with Feinstein, and the fact that they've lost so many wrestlers over the years).

They've only been around for less than 8 years. That's not exactly a long time.

Not true, Sly. ROH fans mark out just as hard for a good promo or angle as they do a high spot.

I know they do, but it's not because of the quality, it's because they're fans of ROH.

Again, not true. You're not a Ring of Honor fan, but yet you have 5 DVDs from them.

And not every review on the Internet for ROH DVDs give a glowing review.

I thought we were speaking in generalities, not in specifics.

Because ROH isn't as good as they used to be. They were doing great business in 2005/2006. However, today... it's just not as good. Talent has taken a huge blow over the years, and plus they have a new creative team. And obviously because of those things, the company is suffering right now.

Talent left because ROH couldn't do good enough business to keep them around, and they have a new creative team because ROH couldn't do good enough business in 2005/2006 to make enough money to keep them going.

You and I both know that Gabe wasn't fired for any reason other than the fact ROH wasn't doing well.

 

[X]

KENTA vs. Nigel McGuinness (3/21/09)
http://www.megavideo.com/?d=PRJONHS8

Watch that Sly. Right now. I want your opinion.

I'll respond to your reply later on tonight when I return to my humble abode.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Because the match was shit. Why don't people on the Internet understand that just because a good worker is in a match, that doesn't mean the match will be good?

The match wasn't shit, though. The only reason you have for thinking that way is because so many chops were thrown. Although many were thrown, they served a specific purpose in the match.

 

[SavageTaker]

The way he talked and criticized ROH was extremely unnecessary. You can tell he really didn't want to give them a chance. I won't act like I watch a lot of it, because I don't, but when I do I try to give them a chance. I don't try to find something wrong with everything a wrestler does and I actually try and look for matches with the best workers they have...he watched a match that didn't have some of the best and still called ROH shit.

 

[Super Crazy]

Okay, so by my power going out, I've apparently missed out on quite the night. But I'm back, and first off, X, I just watched the Joe vs Kobashi match, and I must say. What a match that was. I purely enjoyed it from start to finish. Kobashi's use of the chops and slaps was crazy, every time you thought he was done, he went right back to 'er. I always say I'm a huge Joe mark, he is my favorite wrestler, but that match made me an even bigger fan of his.

As for the other match I've seen posted, McGuinness vs KENTA, again, what an excellent match. I've got major respect for McGuinness now, knowing he goes out there injured from his own move, and still puts on an amazing match.

KENTA and Kobashi are insane, and if there is one thing this has done for me at least, it's opened my eyes to japanese wrestlers. Those two are excellent wrestlers, I can only imagine the rest of them. X, sir, you have enlightened me.

 

[latino World order]

 

[Coco]

I see what you did there, X. Your original post...

Me and X had a mini debate in the LD thread that I wish was in a non-spam section. We could continue it there... It was about whether Kofi could be accepted as a contender for the title (At least that's what I meant by it, and the fact that he could conceivably win Royal Rumble or MITB.)

Kofi's had a couple good months but was on the road to being a midcarder for life before that feud with Orton. The idea that he could win the Rumble is laughable. He's over, but not THAT over. MITB could work as they have a year to test the waters with him or chooce to bail, but a Rumble win would be a bad idea.

I'd pick Morrison or Christian over Kofi in MITB though.

As for the rest of this shit that it would appear I started... I'm just gonna tell myself that Sly isn't part of the niche that ROH is geared towards and leave it at that. While they're evidently bleeding money, the wide releases (Best in the World, Stars of Honor, etc), the TV show, the PPVs, etc. could probably account for that. They're venturing where they shouldn't be, but I don't think that means to product is bad or appealing to fewer people. These might just not be the best business decisions. Also, not having the wide appeal of the WWE is not a defeat in my opinion. If one has an audience and can make money off of that audience, does it matter if they aren't number one? ROH's business model could probably use some cleaning up, but I don't think the product is a major issue.

Of course now I've opened myself up to Slyfox possibly painting me into a corner I don't actually belong in, so I'm thinking I might stop now.

 

[Tastycles]

While I tend to agree with Slyfox more than most, I do see it a bit of a contradiction that you call wrestling an art form, and yet say that it can have objective qualities. I don't want to get into a discussion about aesthetics (as in the branch of philosophy), but you can't say that WWE is objectively a better product than ROH, or vice versa. Your distaste for chops and belief that it makes for a bad match is subjective.

You can't express wrestling quality in terms of anything objective because it isn't possible to do so within art. Is the tramp that sells watercolours for 60p outside Stratford station a better artist than Van Gogh because he's sold more paintings? Or is Van Gogh better because he captured more feeling? Less faecesiously is Thom Yorke a better composer than Mozart because he spans more genres, or is Mozart better because he understood the dynamics of a song better.

Art is what the beholder holds it to be. Wrestling is either not an artform, or it doesn't have objective quality.

 

[One Punch Doug Crashin]

I was at an ROH show and I didn't go home unhappy. Main Event of the night was Joe vs Daniels for the Pure title. I also saw Nigel wrestle and he's a very good worker. I'm a wrestling FAN. not part of the IWC.


watch the Kobashi vs Misawa series of matches... then you'll feel differently about Kobashi....


*goes back to writing my history of jazz thread*

 

[Remix]

As I said, there's a difference between quality and potential. The WWE takes those with potential, and teaches them how to work.

Sly, I just want to double check with you that you're saying that all (or at least the vast majority of the notable (i.e. not bob the part timer who works a full time job and wrestles every saturday for his local indie company)) indie guys can't work unles they are given a WWE developmental contract and told to show up in FCW? If so I am impressed with your ability to talk with such conviction with your head so firmly entrenched in your colon. Can I just cite the examples of AJ Styles (who you've called one of the best workers in the buisness) and Nigel McGuinness; both of whom cut their teeth in the indies, and haven't been taught to work since leaving (Nigel signed his contract and appeared on television pretty damn sharpish (i.e. didn't have time to learn how to work), and AJ was still appearing in indie feds until december of 2007 (i.e. unless he only became a great worker after then he knew how to work whilst in the indies)) not to mention the other members of the TNA roster who came up from the indies wouldnt have been taught either, as TNA doesn't have a farm fed to teach them how to do so.

There's a difference between dropping a person on their head with the help of gravity, and hitting someone with weak slaps.

you right, you're doing one hell of a lot more work to lift up the sack of potatoes and slam him. if you want to smasah his head in repeatedly it'd be far more efficient just to suplex him once or twise and then kick him in the head. probably would have looked more realistic too.

Well, that's part of it, the other part of it is the focus isn't on moves, but rather the story to the match, how the match plays out, and why it plays out the way it does.

and, let me just check Sly, you're saying that indie guys cannot tell a story in the ring, and that they focus excessively on spots? If so, the cuys I just cited would probably disagree with you, as would the other members of the TNA roster who can tell a story in the ring despite being from the indies. or is storytelling a match fixture nigh unique to WWE.

Thousands, compared to the millions of fans who do not.

I'd point out that millions of fans simply havent heard of ROH, dont get HDNet (so they cannot stumble upon it (which is how I discovered TNA (And NJPW with terrible commentary))) In a lot of indie feds the issue isnt that they're worse (or better, for that matter) than the big companies. It's that they do not have the resources to compete with the big boys. Look at WWE: they have six hours of programming a week which can be watched in millions of houses domestically and worldwide, millions of pounds to spend on advertising their product, wrestlers appearing on talk shows and in movie theatres and famous people appearing every week. ROH/random indie fed #263 dont have that national contract (and forgive me if I plead ignorance as to how they'd get one), have niether the platform to air adverts for it or the money to buy the airtime. These combine to make it difficult for potential fans to discover the product and for the company and talent to reach the same level.

They've only been around for less than 8 years. That's not exactly a long time.

It's not exactly a short period either. Though they have accomplished less than WCW and TNA had done in a similar timeframe (coincidentally, they belefited from the ownership of very rich people (Ted Turner and Dixie Carter('s parents)). Make of that what you will, Sly.

I know they do, but it's not because of the quality, it's because they're fans of ROH.

I could point out that those ROH fans who mark out for good promos, for whatever reason obviously became ROH fans for a reason; or that the same could be said about every promotion and wrestler (people only mark out for Hulk Hogan because they used to be Hulkamaniacs...). What's your point.

And not every review on the Internet for ROH DVDs give a glowing review.

not every online review for WWE PPVs give a glowing review either. What's your point?

Talent left because ROH couldn't do good enough business to keep them around, and they have a new creative team because ROH couldn't do good enough business in 2005/2006 to make enough money to keep them going.

Question, werent several TNA wrestlers ROH mainstays? and is it worth pointing out that it was TNA's decision to cut ties with ROH in '07 when ROH got a PPV deal? I dont know how well ROH is doing financially (a google search turns up reports of financial success, and that's about it) and whether or not that's the reason for departing talent. For the record, I wasnt following ROH then (and that hasnt changed to this day. I just disagree with you)

You and I both know that Gabe wasn't fired for any reason other than the fact ROH wasn't doing well.

I didn't know, but I'll take your word for it that Gabe's decisions weren't profitable and he was let go because of that.

 

[Razor]

A whole thread for little ole me? This is just because I don't think the Attitude Era was any good also. But, you know. I'll roll.

One of the matches I watched last night was Jerry Lynn vs. Delirious. It was bullshit, but it was from 2009. I've heard that their best stuff is from 2006, so I've found some of it and I will comment on it later in this post.

Jerry Lynn vs. Delirious

The other match I watched was McGuinness vs. Perkins, and it was ******ed. It had a few cool spots, but other than that, McGuinness was being pushed as being bigger and stronger than Perkins. Okay. That would normally be fine if Perkins was actually fast, and if McGuinness didn't sometimes get knocked over by Perkins but then no sell at other times.

ST, I would like to know how you know I didn't give these matches a chance. Keep bullshitting, please. I watched ROH a few years ago trying to give them a chance, and they used up all of those chances. I may not watch ROH and like it, but I am still a wrestling fan. Just because I like WWE more than the other promotions doesn't mean I suddenly am a lower tier poster.

Now, ignoring the obvious pot shots you took at me Xfear, including the obligatory "You've disagreed with Xfear on wrestling, so you must not know anything about wrestling ever" comment, I will discuss the match that you linked at the beginning Xfear. Kobashi vs. Joe. Instead of being incredulous, I am somehow going to come into it objectively. I know, you didn't think I could do that because of all the WWE stock I hold.

Alright. Everyone likes Samoa Joe. I assume he'll be a face this match? Oh, wait. Everyone is chanting for Kobashi. This'll be interesting when psychology comes into the picture. That's nice, ROH fans are throwing toilet paper into the ring. Reminds me of the kind of stupid shit ECW fans would try to pull. Oh well, Samoa Joe is acting all "You're going down" heel, so maybe he'll be the heel. How nice, Kobashi gets streamers. Still, fucking annoying.

I will say this. The handshake before and after the match isn't silly. It actually adds something. It'd look weird in the WWE, but I like it here.

Lulz, Samoa Joe slapped Kobashi. He's the heel. Good psychology and everything. One thing I have to say though. Why are the fans chanting "This is awesome!"? There has literally been 2 grapples, 2 kicks, a slap, and a chop so far. If we're going by that bar, I'd love to see how they react to Taker's chokeslam. They must have a collective orgasm all over ringside.

My first problem of the match. Kobashi is taken out of the ring by a shoulder block from Samoa Joe that looked fine. Okay. But then he stands there waiting for Joe to slide into him, then he waits there again (just staring) for Joe to go back and dive through the ropes onto him. That kind of stilted spot would normally be fine, we see it all the time in the WWE. However, when Joe makes contact with Kobashi, Kobashi basically takes a step back while Joe lands on the ground. Then, suddenly, Kobashi is weak enough to be rolled into the ring and actually stay down for a 2 count. He didn't look that hurt 10 seconds ago. Joe must just be that strong. I also don't like that Joe is the heel, and he's going for these flashy dives. Though he corrects it with a nice suplex/elbow/head lock combo later. He hasn't completely forgotten his psychology.

What the fuck. Seriously. Joe kicks Kobashi in the back of the head and it takes him down. Joe kicks Kobashi in the forehead 10 times, and Kobashi hulks up. Joe kicks him in the forehead another 10 times, and Kobashi still hulks up. That makes no fucking sense. He may be Kobashi, but that doesn't mean he can take 20 kicks to the head and still chop Joe like it was Hornswoggle flicking his shin.

Okay, apparently Kobashi only goes down to knees to the front of his head or kicks to the back of his head. Don't try his forehead, Joe. It won't work.

!!! There's a "ROH!" chant! I wonder why. Nothing cool has happened. I guess it's just because Kobashi is here, and I understand Kobashi is a great talent. Either that, or ROH fans are even worse than ECW fans when it comes to starting chants for no fucking reason.

Joe sits Kobashi in a chair and starts to kick him in the chest. Why couldn't Joe do this in the ring? Sit Kobashi in a corner and kick him there. Hell, you can even use the ropes to run into him. He does a running boot to Kobashi's face. That'd be fine, if Joe was going fast. It looked like he was skipping to Kobashi, then kicked him in the side of the face. It worked because Joe didn't kick him in the forehead. I'm sure of it. Kobashi is out, because he just got a boot to the face.

Why is the ref just saying over and over again, "Joe, in the ring, Joe." Start a count or something. Fuck, disqualify the douchebag. I mean really. That ref's a bitch.

Good psychology: Joe goes for another skipping boot, but Kobashi stops him with an elbow. He learned his lesson. I so proud of the WRESTLING VETERAN.

Joe gets chopped over the barrier from sitting in a chair (which doesn't make all that much sense...but I'll let it slide. It's Kobashi, and I've seen people chopped out of the ring during WWE spots), and the ref just now grows a set and gets to the ground so he can get Kobashi into the ring. Kobashi literally looks the ref in the face, then turns back to Joe. I guess that means Kobashi is going to help Joe in the ring...NO! A DDT! Wow, no one gives a shit about that ref.

Just so everyone knows, apparently the crowd can't see shit. They keep telling me that. And now, apparently we care about the ref. Kobashi rolls Joe into the ring.

Kobashi doing diving chops is hilarious. Mostly because they don't look like they hurt for anything. Joe is out of it though, apparently that DDT really fucking hurt.

Another "This is awesome!" chant. More like "This crowd will chant for anything!" Kobashi has Joe in a fucking headlock. It's fine storywise, but this crowd is acting like Kobashi has him in a fucking superplex from the entry way.

They've gone into a chop fest now. That would be fine, but after the first 5 it looks like Joe is just slapping Kobashi on the chest. You know, like a 5 year old would slap her daddy because he's tickling her. Kobashi is barely any better. Joe should have kept to kicking the shit out of Kobashi. It would have been better, I'm sure.

Kobashi has Joe in a Torture Rack? Seriously? It looks really odd. Joe should have Kobashi in the hold.

Lulz, a chop to the head. You'd think fucking Khali threw it by the way Joe is overreacting. Kobashi threw a lot of chops to Joe's neck. Don't look like they hurt. Don't even look like Joe minds. In fact, I bet he doesn't, because Joe just took him down.

I've been informed by a fan in the crowd that Joe going through a sequence of punch and chop, punch and chop is the "Good stuff right there." I don't understand. It's good psychology wise, I suppose.

Joe just powerbombed Kobashi into the corner. It was supposed to look cool, I guess. It really looked like Joe got Kobashi up, couldn't hold him up, and dropped him backwards. That is good psychology, I guess, because 5000000 chops to the chest will make anyone's arms tired.

"Holy shit" because of a powerbomb. Seriously. At least the ECW fans waited until Sabu botched a basic chair shot to call out "Holy shit."

Now see, it looks like Joe is hurting Kobashi now. Why? Joe is using the ring ropes to pick up speed and actually hurt Kobashi. Kobashi's selling isn't the problem, I think. It's Joe's believability during his offensive moves.

Okay, so Joe does a cool looking suplex move on Kobashi. The ref totally counts 3, but says he counted 2 on the pin. Lulz. Joe is mad.

And now we have a powerbomb into a STF transition. Somehow, it looks weaker than when Cena does it, but all I hear is "Joe does the STF better than that *** Cena!>!>! !?!? !>!> J@" The crowd is chanting "He's so fat!" That's rather rude, when you were cheering the same dude literally 5 seconds ago.

Kobashi manages to nail a Half Nelson Suplex on Joe. Why is everyone freaking out? I don't understand. NOW the ref starts a fucking count out. Please.

And now Kobashi goes into what Slyfox hated so much, his string of chops. The first set didn't really slow down, it was the second set. They went from full strength to pussy slaps that were weaker than what Joe was throwing earlier. Joe is still selling them like they're cockslaps from the penis of God himself though, so you got me.

Joe just went into a string of slaps to Kobashi that didn't even sound like they landed. Lulz.

Okay, so the psychology wasn't that horrible. I think the shortcoming of this match was Joe, and his either overselling of moves or underselling, depending on how he felt at the moment. Kobashi obviously wasn't a weak link, though the building of the match around the chop (they even ended the match after a string of chops to Joe) kinda seemed odd. It was a 20 minute or so match, and 10 of it had to be chops while Joe kicked for the rest of it. The crowd really killed it for me as well. They cheered for literally no reason at all.

Now, while Xfear has an aneurysm, I'm going to watch the McGuiness/Danielson match from Unified that I downloaded just for you guys.

 

[SavageTaker]

I know you didn't give the matches a chance because you over analyze everything. No match is ever perfect, maybe close to it, but not completely perfect. Can't you watch a match and try to enjoy instead of looking for something wrong in everything the wrestlers do?

You're watching this matches so at least you're willing to watch but you don't give them a chance because you've already made your mind up on them. You think they are going to be shit so you go to the extreme about the match and point out something wrong in everything they did...I'm not saying you're not a pro wrestling fan or a lesser fan because of what you did, but would it hurt you to watch a match and actually try to enjoy? I know you'll probably say you do but for some reason I highly doubt that. I have honestly never before seen someone that does what you did.

 

[X]

Oh Razor, I'm writing up a nice lengthy response to your post right now. I'll have it posted by the time this Family Guy episode is over probably. No offense but I could tell from the first paragraph that you don't know very much about Kobashi, Joe, or wrestling outside of the United States.

 

[X]

Okay Razor, I made a thread for this, my response was just too long for the petty Bar Room.

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?p=1661427

 

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

X is all over Kobashi's dick.

 

[One Punch Doug Crashin]

X is all over Kobashi's dick.

maybe because Kobashi is a fucking wrestling GOD?

 

[Slyfox696]

I know you didn't give the matches a chance because you over analyze everything. No match is ever perfect, maybe close to it, but not completely perfect. Can't you watch a match and try to enjoy instead of looking for something wrong in everything the wrestlers do?

This is stupid. I've watched many matches for enjoyment of them, and I don't enjoy them. Then people will ask why, and when I, or in this case, Razor, gives a detailed reason why, then it's just because we're over analyzing it.

Quit being dumb.


As for the rest of you, I'm sure you made important points you think I should respond to, so just look back at all my other posts, and argue with yourself for a while. If you have anything original to add, let me know.