Randy Orton: Fluke Champion?

[TheOneBigWill]

After tonight's loss, to a cripple I might add, it's become apparent than Randy Orton's reign(s) as Heavyweight Champion are worse than that of Edge's last few, Jeff Hardy's tonight and C.M Punk's original run as Heavyweight Champion, combined.

Let's take a look, roll the clip.. *waits impatiently* What the fuck do you mean we got no clip? Ah fuck, okay then.. we'll do it the old fashion way.

Summerslam 2004-Unforgiven 2004:​

In what is arguably one of Randy's best Championship matches, ever, Orton as a young rising Star defeated one of Canada's best, in Canada, in Chris Benoit. Orton's reign lasted not even a full month, ending 3 days shy of it.

Orton the following night from his Summerslam victory, was cast out of Evolution, like any number of loser's voted off the Island from Survivor. This followed up with a one-on-one encounter against Triple H, at Unforgiven, in which Orton quickly dropped his Heavyweight Championship - before he could truly even realize the greatness it holds.

No Mercy 2007-Backlash 2008:​

This was without question his most impressive streak as Champion. But the true story lies within how he won the Championship, and whom he defeated, defending the Championship. Let's take a look.

At No Mercy, Orton was awarded the Championship, making him an automatic 2-time Heavyweight Champion. Triple H instantly came out, challenging the new Champion - and quickly suckered him (and McMahon) into the match. Triple H won the title, making Orton's reign last all of one whole match.

Orton regained the Championship for the 3rd time, the same night, defeating Triple H in a Last Man Standing match-up. But not without knowing Triple H had went through hell all throughout the night, including a lengthy match-up against Umaga, while Orton rested.

From this point, Orton retained his title on Pay per view's against the likes of; Shawn Michaels, Chris Jericho, Jeff Hardy, John Cena & Triple H. However, once again you must look deeper into the situations..

He defeated a Shawn Michaels, who was banned from using Sweet Chin Music. In fact, the finish of the match came when H.B.K almost forgot, attempting the kick, only to pull back - a split second long enough, for Orton to hit an R.K.O.

He retained his Championship against Chris Jericho, via losing by DQ, after J.B.L got involved in the match-up, seemingly moments before Orton was ready to tap-out in the Walls of Jericho.

He retained his Championships against Jeff Hardy, only by one R.K.O, after Hardy had completely dominated Orton throughout their entire match-up at the Royal Rumble.

He retained his Championship, once again by DQ, against John Cena at No Way Out.

He defeated both Triple H and John Cena at Wrestlemania, but not without allowing the Game and Cena to battle it out, picking off one - after they'd taken out the other.

He ended up losing his Championship, once again, to Triple H - at Backlash.

Backlash 2009-Extreme Rules 2009:​

His most recent Heavyweight run, has come and now gone. It all began in the unlikeliest of ways. A Six Man Tag Team contest brought Orton the Championship, after he punted the Game in the head - but not without Ted DiBiase & Cody Rhodes (Legacy) helping him along the way.

This followed up by retaining his Championship at Judgment Day, via DQ against Batista.. only to then drop the Championship tonight, in a Steel Cage match, against an Animal who had been previously injured - so much so, that he'll be on the shelf for another undetermined period of time - yet the Company decided to still, give him the title over letting Orton retain.

Conclusion:​

So I ask you.. is Randy Orton the single worst W.W.E Heavyweight Champion in the history of the Company? Is Randy Orton a fluke when it comes to being the Heavyweight Champion? DOES Randy Orton deserve to be the Heavyweight Champion, now, or ever again?

Please make sure you explain your theories and opinions. Thank You.

 

[Nate DaMac]

You already know I'm a fan of yours, but that aside, you seriously need to start more threads and show these folks how it's done. I'm not gonna address everything you said, i'm lazy. I do think he will be given another shot at it eventually. I think the biggest problem is the booking. He has yet to have a respectable reign, or championship match performance in any of said reigns. But it's not entirely his fault. I hate Orton, but I am fairly certain that my distain is a direct result of his shitty booking.

 

[yongjs]

I kinda feel that the title is not really suited for Randy Orton, his team up with legacy feels much more suitable to be chasing the title aka using legacy to soften up the champion and Randy going for the kill.

Once Randy got the title, I felt that his character becomes very lost and shown to be well weak at times.

He will get in to the title picture again but his character really is much more suitable to be the hunter not the hunted.

 

[Loveless]

It's just crap booking. You remember the outcry when he didn't win the title at Wrestlemania 25? It had been an Orton lovefest until the moment he won the title and from that moment on he's been abysmally booked. I understand that heels need to use heel tactics but it shouldn't be happening at every PPV because then they lose all credibility when they can't win on their own merits. I've made this same complaint about Edge, who I don't think he ever won the title cleanly.
As for putting the title on an injured Batista...
I suppose it makes RAW tonight vaguely watchable for the first time in 3 months. I would rather have had Orton destroy him last night and I thought putting the belt on him was stupid. I'm fairly sure that tonight will end with setting up Orton Vs HHH or HBK for the title at the next PPV. Orton has gone through everyone else, although I suppose they could push MVP. I think now, with all those missing, would be the perfect time for Michaels to have the title reign that he deserves.

 

[Chill]

First off I think Orton will possibly get the belt back on RAW through some loophole tonight with Batista injured.

As for Orton as a fluke champion, well I think he has had two poorly booked reigns and one decent. His first ended before it begun but I do think he wasn't ready to hold the title then, they just forced it on him too early when he wasn't fully ready. So perhaps that would be considered a fluke reign.
However, when they eventually made him champion again (twice at No Mercy) I thought it was much more fleshed out and his feud with Jeff Hardy was particularly entertaining imo and obviously he went on to have decent enough battles with Cena (unfortunately cut short), HBK and so on before coming full circle and losing it to Trips. That reign was not a fluke by any means imo, Orton looked like a champ, carried himself like a champ and showed that he had matured significantly since his previous short reign.
The most recent reign is simply baffling, now personally I enjoyed the Backlash match where he won it but understandly so it made him appear weak in so far as he needed Legacy's assistance. But I got over that and began to look forward to another Orton reign which has now just been cut short again much like his initial run with the gold. During this particular reign he obviously only defended the belt once, but only by getting himself a DQ against Batista. This reign has just been poorly booked, why they took the belt of Orton last night knowing Batista was injured prior to the bout is anybodys guess (I suppose they will gain good ratings tonight if anything) but WWE appear to be playing hot potato with their main belts and I'm not sure if this is such a good thing.

Overall, Orton has had two (three if we count the first of two at No Mercy) title reigns which were so insignificant that they could be viewed as a flukes or perhaps transitional reigns would be more appropriate, but thankfully for him he enjoyed one decent, lenghtly enough reign, even retaining at Wrestlemania which I think ultimately saves him from being considered a total fluke. However, if he keeps getting reigns such as his most recent, he is going to turn into another Edge at this rate...

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Most likely Orton will win it back tonight on RAW with Batista being injured.

I wouldn't say that Orton is the worst heavyweight champion in WWE, but he just doesn't seem championship material. He turned face for his first title reign and that flopped because Orton is just not believable as a face.

The second title reign was decent but I would have changed the way he won it in the first place. His matches with Shawn Michaels and Jericho were okay and I consider his match with Hardy to be the best out of his reign. I expected him to stay champion until at least Summerslam.

His third reign was short and lackluster. Got himself disqualified for slapping the ref and got his ass handed him to by Ric Flair.

I probably say it's 25% booking and 75% Orton for the reason his title reigns are not great.

 

[WOLFPACK0524]

Didn't watch the PPV, but read the results and I too am completely shocked as to the results. Dreamer, Hardy, CM Punk and Orton/Batista.

I think in my humble opinion that Orton is going down the Edge path. Win title, drop title, win title, drop title. Edge is a champion practically every other month lately. It is funny how the WWE was so pro-Orton, then he opens Raw and drains any possible excitement out of it. He takes forever to walk to the ring, stand on the ropes and then talk. It got boring. Now with Batista winning but getting hurt again (Hey, didn't Kennedy have the same amount of frequent injuries?) I see Orton getting the blet back somehow tonight. I see a tournament but the "creative" forces in the WWE will probably have a ceremony to hand it back to Orton. Now with the humiliation of Vickie from last night, there may be an interim GM and they could have a tournament after Orton demands the belt back or they could vacate it for a while and have the tournament during the next few weeks having the finals culminating at the next PPV.

I don't know but Orton is not a fluke, they are just starting him on an Edge type championship career.

 

[FiveTymeWCWChamp]

The number one reason Orton's title reigns suck is one man...HHH! How can you screw up a perfectly self written angle as the youngest World Champion ever??!! HHH is how. I don't hate HHH, but he could have taken a back seat to Orton for more than a month couldn't he? lol. Plus the booking is terrible. If Legacy is to be a true dominant stable, Priceless needs to have there own agenda besides being Orton's bitches. They need the tag titles along with Orton being the World Champ so they can show how dominant that faction is. I don't know...I wish I could see something good out of this but all I see is that Smackdown is 10 times better than raw, because they make the "wrestling" the focus of the feuds and the talent is better on that show.

 

[Blade]

I dunno about this.
See, I think it's getting to the point where any heel who loses the title considered a fluke. Around No Way Out, people were saying Edge was a fluke. It's just becoming annoying.

I think calling Orton a fluke just seems a bit... off. Kane was a fluke. He held the title for a day. Big Show was a fluke. They only ever used him as a transitional champion so they could keep the real money matches for Wrestlemania (Rock vs Triple H, Lesnar vs Angle.)
I think what the problem with Orton is is that he's in the same dubious position as Jeff Hardy. He's a better chaser than a champion.
Remember the weeks leading up to Wrestlemania? Orton winning the rumble, taking out the Mcmahons because they were trying to get in his way. That was great tv. When Orton became champion, he had overcome the obsticales. He stopped being insanely ruthless (with the exception being the punt to Triple H... but that was a given.)

I don't mind Orton as a champion. I think he's decent. But that being said I, like many other people, simply liked him way more when he was chasing Triple H and chasing the title on his way to Wrestlemania. But obviously they can't make him do that big road to the title angle again, so I really don't know what Mr. Orton can do.

 

[S.K. Cid]

I like Orton, and I like him as champ. Sometimes his promos can get a bit stale, but, like with the Flair angle, he can cut interesting promos that really make him seem like a psychotic heel. I like his non-legit title wins/defenses and I liked his reign in 2008.

I remember when everyone was wondering "Is Orton a transitional champion?" and they were answered by his surprise retention and Wrestlemania. And then lots of people believed his "Age of Orton" and expected a lengthy title reign. I was one of them. And then he IMMEDIATELY lost his title to HHH at Backlash.

I think it IS booking that kills his titles, but I think the problem is that either Vince thinks that face reigns always equal more money, Orton can't get people actually excited and are bored of him, or the RAW roster is just so stale and stagnant that he only has a few top people to go through, which I believe is the problem. Had he beat Batista, who would be left? Either recycling HHH, or maybe elevating Porter. Or, God forbid, THE ANTICIPATED RETURN OF SHANE O-MAC!

But yeah, I think he can be a good champion, but I don't think enough people tolerate him as champion to sustain a long reign, although I believe he deserves one.

 

[RVDgurl]

I don't think Orton's title reigns are flukes, but they are definately a let down. It's a great mystery, but Orton does everything right up until the big match. He cuts fantastic promos, is great with the build up segments, and has decent matches week to week on RAW. I can't explain what happens when a PPV rolls around, but something just goes wrong. Orton's PPV matches are not good, especially when defending a championship is involved.

 

[Orton is god]

after watching the ppv last nite and raw tonite im convinced randy orton is in the dog house. now most of you will probably disagree but i really think something happened. obviously im an orton mark but look at the big picture, orton gets a huge push and then at wrestlemania he gets his ass handed to him. when it looks like the writers are idiots they give orton the belt at backlash, i thought it was a shitty way to have him win but hey i will take it. then for some odd reason he drops the belt almost 2 months later to a guy that has no passion for the buisness at all, and on top of that he lost it in 7 min!!!! then on raw tonight they make orton look like a complete bitch yet again by having him jump batista with rhodes and dibase, then getting owned by triple h later that nite. i didnt even mention him getting beat down by shane and flair because that was just pathetic. im really starting to think that shit that happened in mexico was real and wwe is trying to cover it up lol i know i am reaching but come on you gotta admit they have been screwing orton lately. i know what u guys are gonna say that at the end of that footage orton signals cut and comes back in, honeslty that could of meant anything, either that or triple h is jealous and is holding him back.

 

[tLight]

I think this thread was named improperly, it should of read something like “Randy Orton Best Champion of the past 3 years.”

The only two champs better than him in the past two years are Edge, and Jericho.

If you want to talk Fluke Champs or People who have held the title and shouldn't of, you should bring up names like Rey Mysterio, CM Punk, Triple H, and Batista.

 

[Razor]

Honestly, Orton shouldn't win all those matches cleanly. He's a heel. He cheated to get the championship. That's what he does. But, I think he does not deserve another championship.

Why? Because he can't carry the company. The ratings were in free fall when he was feuding with Triple H and the McMahons. He was literally punting people left and right, being the biggest heel he could be. What was happening? Ratings were plummeting. They were scrapping 3.0 level. Orton winning the title didn't help at all. It was a Flair return that boosted the ratings by .3 points. Then it took Extreme Rules, the ppv that Orton lost the title, for Raw to reach 3.6 again. And that was mainly because of a really strong ppv, in no part due to Orton.

So, his matches? He's a heel. He's supposed to cheat for the victory. But by a company standpoint? He shouldn't be holding that title unless he's keeping it warm for Cena. I mean really.

 

[tLight]

The fall in ratings also could of been due to people being tired of Triple H and the McMahons? Lets face it the Orton/Triple H feud has been going on for far to long.

At least when HBK/Y2J feuded last year, it got better as it went on. HBK/Y2J from several years ago was also a great feud.

Orton/Triple H hasnt been good for a long time, bringing in the McMahons didnt add any life to it. This is one of those situations when they should drop it, Triple H should of stayed on Smackdown, or should just step out of the lime light for some time. At least when he was involved in the rebirth of DX(that also went on too long) it kept him away from the World/WWE Title.

 

[TwistofRKO]

When you have to sell being defenseless against whoever comes out and confronts you, you don't have much to play with. He's been beat down, with very little of his own resistance, by Ric Flair, Batista, Triple H, Shane McMahon, and Vince McMahon. Three of them Orton shouldn't have to lay down for, and he's a wrestler, very strong guy here, he should be able to defend himself against Batista and Triple H.

The problem is that, mainly this last title reign, is that he looked strong headed into winning it, only to pull the rug from out of under the character.

He's supposed to be billed as dangerous, but if you have him cheat, cool whatever. The thing is he needs to present a danger. The handcuffing Trips to the ropes was a perfect example of how Orton should be billed. He shouldn't be crawling around after Ric Flair (whom Orton beat down leading up to this) throws a forearm to his back.

It's definitely on the billing. You can have him cheat, he's a heel. But you cannot drop his character and just make him crawl around the ring to sell non-wrestler's punches. That makes him look ridiculous.

The 2nd/3rd reign was very good, and the weeks leading up to the matches are supposed to be dominated by whoever wont win. That's cool. He ended up winning matches. He made you hate him by winning in an irritating manner. That's how he should still be booked.

 

[The Palace of Wisdom]

I have soured on Orton a little bit in the last few months. I still like him, but I don't ever really like anything he does. His fans make excuses for poor matches, like he doesn't have good chemistry with his opponents. He is a main event wrestler. He shouldn't be laying eggs on PPV every month.

The problem isn't completely with Orton. They have murdered his development multiple times. They build him up as a super-human heel, and then he loses. Or they have him fall ass backwards into a WWE title, only to hold it for a month until the former champion can get their hands on him.

He is NOT the next Stone Cold, just because he gets some cheers at each show. Stone Cold had mic skills, and good matches with top level talent. Orton's mic skills are laborious at best, and he hasn't had a really good match in I don't know how long.

But, he's too valuable to job out to upper mid-card guys. And he's too valuable to have lose often as it is.

They just need to figure out what they want to do with the guy. You want him to be a mega heel. BOOK HIM LIKE ONE. Don't have him get beaten up by 60+ year old men and Shane McMahon. Have him hold his own against other top level guys.

The Legacy stable is failing because it's two other members are mirror images of their leader. They have no clue what to do with them. Perhaps when they win the Tag Team titles at The Bash, we will have some direction for those two.

But the tragedy is that, win or lose at The Bash, Orton is still going to be feuding with HHH, with no direction, and no chance at winning the feud.

 

[Southwind]

Ok for those who say Orton has bad wrestling skills watch his matches with Shawn Michaels and Carlito those were two strong performances.

It's not an excuse it's fact Orton is always fighting Triple H Batista Or Cena those 3 just don't have much skill at all especially Batista his matches with Cena were decent but the reason people are souring on him is because he's been fighting Triple H for a year a guy he works terribly with so you only remember those matches and the your mind perceives him as a bad wrestler.

Remember he is only 29 so he has plenty of time to improve which he'll need to do as him and Cena will be carrying the company for the next decade.

 

[supersayian]

well lets not say he is Fluke Champion yet because he has been poorly booked lately. this whole Venom name is killing his character as it makes him look weak and can not do it himself. He was better with the Legend Killer Gimmick. he had no help had great matches with top stars. Taker, HBK, Hogan, Foley and more. The guy is great on mic and in the ring. he just needs his character rebuilt. Legacy is holding that back. As he is not being given much to work with creatively. This is not as good as Evolution was at all. So drop Legacy give him real tittle run. NO HHH involved at all. their matches have sucked not one good one yet. He needs to work with Cena or newer talent to help him out.

 

[tLight]

The man has just started his 5th title reign. Everyone would agree that his first one was crap. But he has only gotten better since then. Starting when he teamed with Edge in Rated-RKO in 2006 he has only improved. Although his lastest run with Legacy has been lackluster, he is a good champion, he gets great heat fromt he crowd, and you generally feel that he is hated by the people in the arena and the other wrestlers he faces.

 

[The Palace of Wisdom]

Ok for those who say Orton has bad wrestling skills watch his matches with Shawn Michaels and Carlito those were two strong performances.

The same thing can be said about a lot of guys when it comes to HBK. He can make virtually EVERYONE look like gold in the ring.

Orton just doesn't have much a personality. They keep trying to play up the whole "Viper" thing (I guess because he wants to cut Jake Roberts like promos), but it's falling flat.

He looks like a million bucks, has the pedigree, and does have the ability. But something at the moment is not clicking, and he's featured too much to not be clicking.