Ramadan

[HBK-aholic]

Ramadan - More than a billion people around the world abstain from eating, drinking, smoking, and sex from dawn to sunset for a one-month period each year.

Fasting is one of the Five Pillars of the religion of Islam and one of the highest forms of Islamic worship. Abstinence from earthly pleasures and curbing evil intentions and desires is regarded as an act of obedience and submission to God as well as an atonement for sins, errors, and mistakes. Called Ramadan (or Ramazan), Muslims fast during this month from the moment when it first starts to get light until sunset.

Muslims fast as an act of faith and worship towards Allah, seeking to suppress their desires and increase their spiritual piety. Fasting together as a worldwide community—Ummah—affirms the brotherhood and equality of man before Allah.

What are peoples thoughts on this? Recently I have spoken to people who don't see the point in Muslims doing this. They see it as stupid, when they have food and such so readily available.

I understand why they do it, though I doubt I ever could. It takes a LOT of will power. But I think in the end it does show them what they want to understand. And it's their choice so I have no problem with them doing it.

What are your opinions on this? If you do fast, why? And if you don't, could you?

 

[FoleyIsGod]

I'm sure Muslims would have a good old laugh at the thoguht of a big, fat man crawling down a chimney every year to give presents to family. Or maybe getting a tree and tarting it up in baubles and angels might be a joke.

Its just part of the culture. Its like saying to Bhuddists meditating is silly or to Jewish people you can eat pig you know.

I think religion is bollocks anyway, but if people have faith in whatever belief, good for them.

 

[Uncle Phatso]

Fairy tales and storys, Thats what religion is to me. But if people want to confide in a religion and it's ideals than let them. It provides comfort to people knowing theres possibly another spiritual world out there. To me its a bunch of bs, But if muslems want to do it let them. Personally I think a few cristians and people of other religions in my area could deal with a bit of a fast, myself included.

 

[FoleyIsGod]

The one thing I dont agree with is when I was at High School, we were not allowed to flaunt eating in front of those who were fasting.

Its a load of bollocks, but the teachers said it might be disrespectful. Sorry, disrespectful is laughing and making jokes about 9/11 on 9/12, saying things like "I flew that plane" and "Im glad those people died"

Its things like that which make me angry, and I did get excluded for cracking a Muslim kid who continually wound me up about 9/11 and made racist remarks about me. But of course, I was the hate monger.

 

[FromTheSouth]

I grew up Jewish, and fasting on Yom Kippur, our day of attonement, was a spiritual duty.

I agree with Foley that we are far too sensitive to Muslims though. I don't care what they want to do. I don't stop them, but when it gets in my way, I don't care what anyone thinks. The people who champion babying Muslims call themselves progressive, I call them cowards. I am all for equal rights, but I am not for extra rights, especially when they spring from fear.

Now Hakeem Olajuwon used to observe Ramadan during basketball season. He wouldn't drink until sundown, wouldn't eat some game days, and managed to win an MVP and two championships. What does this add to the discussion? Nothing....he's just my favorite player...EVAR!!!

 

[The Snake]

1 quick call out to the most arrogant people who have ever graced the planet - Atheists, the world would not be the same without them, if they feel it's OK to unprovokingly insult part of someone's culture, then they can take it from me in good spirits, the boring idiots.

I have quite a few Muslim friends, some less strict than others. I know one a few who are very into sports/athletics and they have different ways of doing things. One of them says he thinks it is fine to eat when he is under intense physical strain, because it is a risk to his body not to eat for so long. Another is a purist who thinks that the rules are there and they are there to be followed, and he does not consume anything, he knows his bodily limits and does not do anything he can't cope with. The third one is sort of in the middle, he thinks its ok to swirl water in your mouth, chew gum etc, things which you dont eat/drink, but they are there to occupy your mouth so to speak. They all follow the fasting rules most of the time, but this is quite a good area where there is a divide.

My view is - If you follow a religion (I wont do into whether I do or not, out of fear of making this topic become one about religion as a whole - Some people haven't focused on the topic enough as it is) then you follow the rules it sets for you, I mean, when people go to school or work, they follow the rules because that is what is asked of them, it is the same with religion, my opinion is that if people are brought up as Muslim or have converted to it, then they should follow all the rules, not just the ones they want to.

I also think Ramadan as a tradition is terrific, and one that maybe I will try someday (although not under the name Ramadan, but maybe the same time), as some sort of eye opener for what it means to want to be forgiven as strongly as those who follow the Muslim tradition, not because I want those things in my own life (although they are very nice aspirations to have; the reasons for Ramadan) but because for me life is about understanding and 1st hand experience is only sufficient for things like this.

I disagree people are too sensitive to Muslims, I certainly am not, as I said I have a few Muslim friends, I am never scared to go up to them while eating during Ramadan, and on occasion we will make the odd joke about it (I stress "we"), it isn't a stigma to be a Muslim and if people stop approaching them due to being scared that they will get in trouble, I think they need to take a long hard look at themselves and see that we should not judge 1 person because we have met 1 archetype of their people made culture and show them the courtesy that we would show anyone else.

So yeah - Ramadans is Goody!

 

[HBK-aholic]

1 quick call out to the most arrogant people who have ever graced the planet - Atheists, the world would not be the same without them, if they feel it's OK to unprovokingly insult part of someone's culture, then they can take it from me in good spirits, the boring idiots.

I have very strong athiest views, and take offence to this. In actual fact, I've found it's more religious people who are arrogant, and who try to force their views onto other people. They don't seem to grasp the concept that there is a possibility that God isn't real and Athiesm may be correct.

"All religious people are boring idiots, as well as arrogant." Ah, you don't like it when it's being said the other way around do you? It works both ways. In a perfect world people would be able to believe what they want with no problems. This isn't the case. But Religious people aren't exactly victims in this.

 

[Richard]

I can see why muslims do this, but, I do not believe in religion and see it as pointless.

Around here, Muslims use Ramadan as an excuse to get out of things and I'm pretty sure that during fasting they are supposed to continue with the rest of their lives as normal and they use this as an excuse to get out of things at school.

I think it's fair dangerous to engage in Ramadan, especially in Australia where the weather is warming up now and can possible get incredibly hot during the day and they could possibly de-hydrate and faint but when they faint and they are offered a drink of water, they arn't going to accept it, because that would mean breaking their fast.

I just think the idea is a bit silly.

 

[justinsayne]

1 quick call out to the most arrogant people who have ever graced the planet - Atheists, the world would not be the same without them, if they feel it's OK to unprovokingly insult part of someone's culture, then they can take it from me in good spirits, the boring idiots.

Dude, WTF man!!!, seriously do you realize you just genrealized a large group of people based on their beliefs, that's fucked up, what you just did is no different than people saying all Muslims are terrorists, or all Jews are just tightwads, it's completely offensive, not all Atheists feel it's OK to provokingly insult part of someone's culture/religious beliefs (much like you just did, which is really just kinda hypocritical of you now isn't it), seriously not cool, not cool at all

I have no problem with someone believing in what ever they want to beleive in, as long as they aren't harming anyone around them, or trying to shove their beliefs down my throat, personally I'm a bit hesitant when it comes to buying into the concept of god, I do think there is a possibility they god could exist, but I have seen nothing that proves to me the god exists, however if people feel that there is a god or some other higher power and that helps get them through the day them that's all good and fine as long as they respect other peoples right to beleive in something different

 

[klunderbunker]

While not a Muslim, I think people that are able to accomplish this in the name of their religion are impressive. In my church, we tend to grumble when our Pastor requests a fast of a few days, let alone two weeks. It certainly does take willpower to accomplish this as well as dedication to what you believe in. Of the few Muslims I know, while they are all seemingly a bit irritated by parts of Ramadan, mainly being hungry and thirsty, they seem genuinely happy during the times. If that's the case, I'm glad for them. It's something that they believe that I don't. If it makes them feel better, more power to them.

 

[The Snake]

I think what I did had the desired effect I wanted - It was completely tongue in cheek and not meant in insult, more an eye opener that when people insult religion, they do it thinking they are right, and they have the facts, and it's exactly the same for people who follow religion - And it is generalization, but I tend to think majorities matter more than minorities (of course without avoiding minorities). I have no views on religion at all, I am simply stating a stereotypical atheists response to a person who follows religion and turning it on them (as I said - Tongue in cheek), of course, people on this board are of a high standard in their portrayal of opinions. I think HBK-Aholic summed it up by saying Ideally we should all have our own views, but her point was slightly marred by her eye-for-an-eye approach by trying to insult me back, Ghandi taught us this was wrong.

But anyway - People didnt focus on the points that were much more debate worthy, if I wanted to debate views on creation and behaviour then I would find/make an appropriate thread, so I would have rathered noone really focused on it and actually discussed Ramadan and responded to my entire post as opposed to leeching on to one small part of what I said and making it out like I posted nothing but tripe...

 

[HBK-aholic]

If you believe that's the 'stereotypical' athiest view you're very ignorant. I know many athiests, and none are like that. The general athiest view is that people can believe in God, but we don't. We need proof to believe in something, and there isn't a slice of truth in the fact God exists. But I don't care. I also have many friends who are religious, and I have no problem with that.

The only problem I have is when they try and force their views down my throat, Because, yes, it happens. And a lot more than athiests do it. I don't remember taking a class devoted to athiesm is school. But I do remember taking one devoted to all the different religions. If that's not forcing views down my throat, I don't know what is.

Furthermore, I wasn't trying to insult you in any way. I said simply what you did, the other way around. So if you think what I said was insulting, maybe you better look at your first post.

And we will debate the points of your post we disagree with. If we disagree with that, we'd say that too. It just so happens the rest of your post was well thought out. But the top part came across as completely ignorant.

 

[The Snake]

I didnt say I found it insulting, I said it was an attempt by you to insult me - And it must have been an attempt to insult me for the very reason that you found it insulting and therefore were switching it around to try and make me look moronic (and you had every right to, looking back, I dont take back my point - But I could have made it more obvious what I meant - It was more paraphrasing what I have heard from prior debates and using it as a little way of showing people are over sensitive and will never admit theyre wrong).

At school - I have studied a class which has looked at all the religions, atheism, agnosticism as well as all other creation views, not to mention ways that people should behave, I think it has served me well in formulating no opinion whatsoever, I would not have it any other way, but sometimes I think it would be nice to have not heard both sides of a story, so I could have at least had something I can believe in, as I stand, I tend to play a Devil's Advocate type person when I have to debate things with people, because my own views aren't strong enough, or developed enough to bother to put up a real argument for my view.

As you said up there - People do try and ram their beliefs down everyones throat, it makes me sick to the stomach, and this thread was a perfect example, people were bringing their religious views into a thread which it didn't really need to be and were simply leaving a big target for anyone who wanted to respond to it, anyway, as it has veered in this direction, Ill not post any more of my Ramadan stories.

 

[FoleyIsGod]

As you said up there - People do try and ram their beliefs down everyones throat

Thats so goddamn true. Not one religion is innocent about this fact, with the exception of maybe Bhuddists.

I hate having things forced down my throat, hence why I disliked my time with Spawn in the Prison!

But I do like winding those door to door religions(Jehovas are the main one, followed by Mormons) by saying I worshipSatan and that your God is a lie.

 

[Uncle Phatso]

I told some jahovas that today. They came to my door and started shoving pamplets and jibber jabber down my throat. I'm like really get the hell off of my door. And shoved the shit back at them. Still they put it in my door as I was walking up the stairs. So I went back down grabed the papers and ran to them and told them they forgot somthing in my door.
Really if you want to have a religion, fine go for it. But untill I see some hardcore proof that theres a god, I'm not buying it. For thousands of years. Egypt, romans, And other religions did shit that no god if there was could condone. Getting money To whipe your face with holy water. Water thats just fucking river water blessed by a so called priest. OR the sacrifices, really comon to get better crops. Sacrificing a person for rain. Smells like a big load of bs to me.

I could be wrong tho, but let me do what I want to. And you do your shit, I'm not going to burn you at a stake if you believe in a god. Just don't put shit on me, IF I don't want to do it.

 

[Richard]

Really if you want to have a religion, fine go for it. But untill I see some hardcore proof that theres a god, I'm not buying it. For thousands of years. Egypt, romans, And other religions did shit that no god if there was could condone.

You want a religion that even today we can have proof their Gods existance?

Look up, Atenism. Atenism was a religion introduced by Akhenaten, an Egyptian Pharaoh from the Amarna period during 18th century New Kingdom Egypt. This religion was based on that the sun was the sole god. I don't believe in religion, but I think that this theory is decent because the sun helps things grow from the light and heat, now if we didn't have the sun, we would be in big trouble. That would be a logical thing to worship.

You want evidence, look up in the sky during day time, there is their god.

Mind you the sun was worshipped in many more places and even before Akhenaten and his introduction of the Aten.

 

[The Snake]

One of the reasons I do not support a religion is because I do not know everything, I have inclinations and urges as to what I "might" think, but I don't descend into a full-blown belief as noone/nothing has explained everything yet - Which is why both religion and science will always remain beliefs and not facts, just because the laws of Physics and Biology seem to be true, what's to say that these things are not illusionary or even false. My point has always been - People will believe things that they are told, since the early ages up until around the enlightenment (although Im not too sure on this), people believed in religion, everyone thought that this explained everything, because they were told it from a young age. Now, everyone is told that we evolve and that the universe was created by the big bang, who is to say that all this isn't just a lie or something people have "made up", in all probability, as science advances, they might even prove their own theories wrong, and then a new belief of creation will come about.

Of course, I am not saying we should not have views as humans, one thing that is fact is that we are all allowed to think what we want, I can disagree, but even if someone thinks that I deserve to be killed, I can't tell them they aren't allowed to have those thoughts. The point is more, just because people believe that science is right, does not mean it is so, just as because people believe Religion is true, does not mean it is right - I think if Atheists and *Insert name for Religion Followers here* alike all realised that they are all "maybe" wrong, and decided to seek out more information to have a well rounded and developed view then instead of a pointless "I think this and you think that, this is why I am more right that you" slagging match about how everything that is, is, then we might all move forwards instead of being in the same place we have been for a long, long time.

 

[Crush1]

Im a muslim but i'm not an expert on my religion so i'll try to explain why i fast. I do it because i want to be a good muslim and if i fast my prayers will become more worth to allah.Its suposed to teach us humility that were not better than anyone, and that we do it to feel what its like for people who dont have food or water.I can stand not eating a whole day its not that big of a deal.What we muslim have to do is give money food and support the homeless and those less unfortunate and pray, thats all.And im not intrested in debating with anyone i just gave my answer to why we do it.

 

[The Snake]

Thats so goddamn true. Not one religion is innocent about this fact, with the exception of maybe Bhuddists.

I hate having things forced down my throat, hence why I disliked my time with Spawn in the Prison!

But I do like winding those door to door religions(Jehovas are the main one, followed by Mormons) by saying I worshipSatan and that your God is a lie.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind? Do as you would be done by?

I don't see why it is ok for you to criticize people for telling you their beliefs, yet it is seemingly funny and/or cool for you to mock them, doing something which is equally as bad, thats's just as wrong in my book, and I would hope many peoples books - It's a sad state when people feel it necessary to insult people because of what they belief, even if some people do it, why do others feel necessary to copy them?

Note I am is disagreeance with both parties in this instance, Jehovah's Witnesses should not ram beliefs down someones throat, but manners do go a long way in the case of FiG.

 

[Dead Kennedy]

Nothing beats the feeling of being a guy without principles and morals who eats pork while other guys fast. Hey, but whatever works for them, right? I mean, it's not like it makes any less sense than certain customs of certain other religions.

 

[The Snake]

This could be possible if people would be more serious about SCIENCE.

STAY.IN.THE.FUCKING.SCHOOL,PEOPLE.

That is all.

Is there only one school or something (as you said "The School"), or am I missing your point?

I dont get your first point either, more people can believe what they want if they believed in science - Thats wrong on quite a few levels. For one, Science is limited by Science, we only know as much as we know, all of this is very obvious, but people fail to pick up on this. What happened before the big bang for example? There are theories of the Big Splat and such, but it isn't proven. Even the big bang is still a theory it could be argued, and what is to say that it was not initiated by a Divine Being anyway?

Science has done a lot for us, but you can never know anything until you know everything as far as I am concerned, just finding out 1 more thing can change absoloutly everything that we conceive to be truth and reality and change it all (The Laws of Nature theoretically could all cease to exist in the very next moment as far as we know). Both Religion and Science have 0% truth until we know that one or the other is 100% verifiable, people believe the "in" thing, as it stands, its cool to believe science did everything and it's cool to say that religion is a fairytale and fake.

As I have mentioned before, people need to stop listening and start learning, find out everything you can and discover what works for you, don't take anything you hear from anyone for truth in relation to matters this huge. You can spend a life time learning what you want to believe and end your life knowing that you have an opinion that you created, not one you thought was right because all your friends adopted similar thought. Or, you can live a life in delusion, simply taking what people say to you as being right, and I mean what anyone says, friends, family, teachers, colleagues, bosses, enemies, aquaintances - Too often people take what people are saying to be right, when if they devoted a few moments to think about it, it really doesn't make any sense (of course some of the time it does, but people don't take the time to consider).

Well, I turned your 3 lines into something that I hope you will respond to (or someone else will), I don't want to sound all preachy, but I have gone through a pretty enlightening period of my life where I want to know things and want to know things that I have been told are right, are then shown to be wrong. I'm still only 17 and don't believe I will ever know everything about anything, but I can seek to know as much as I mentally can, and I hope that it will lead me to having a better, well rounded view of the world than most people would like to have.

 

[Mexican Geek]

Nothing beats the feeling of being a guy without principles and morals who eats pork while other guys fast. Hey, but whatever works for them, right? I mean, it's not like it makes any less sense than certain customs of certain other religions.

So, you are saying that people who doesnt have a religious belief are immoral and has no principles? Sorry, but that's a lie. There are lots of people in this world that have helped human kind without a religious belief.

People who believe in religion does it because of the human need of having something or someone in top of them, the need of idolizing. "The fear of god". what would happen if overnight you become a "God" and you could do anything you ever wanted? People's fear on themselves is what made almost all the religions on earth. True story, look it up.