Racism in TNA: Are They "Crossing the Line"?

[ABMorales787]

Even if it was a cruel racial term - How can you say a derogatory slur in a friendly manner? When you watch a segment, generally isn't there name calling? That's like saying, "I don't understand why The Rock calls John Cena a power Ranger".

Being called a Power Ranger could never be bad. You get cool stuff and huge robots and kick a lot of ass. It's pro wrestling. "Friendly" does not compute. If the offended party is not offended there is no reason to care. When WWE made the angle where Lay-Cool called Mickie James fat, it genuinely hurt her feelings and led her to TNA. That was offensive because she didn't like it and WWE kept pushing it. Pope called Morgan and Crimson "Honkys". Neither gave a shit. Therefor no one was offended.

The sterotypes are far thin now days, you should look up some of Junkyard Dog's matches from when he was in Mid South wrestling Michael Hayes and listen to the racism if you want to hear racism. I was there, I saw the events.

And JYD never cared about it. Again, why should anyone else who wasn't offended care instead?

 

[J.J.]

Being called a Power Ranger could never be bad. You get cool stuff and huge robots and kick a lot of ass. It's pro wrestling. "Friendly" does not compute. If the offended party is not offended there is no reason to care. When WWE made the angle where Lay-Cool called Mickie James fat, it genuinely hurt her feelings and led her to TNA. That was offensive because she didn't like it and WWE kept pushing it. Pope called Morgan and Crimson "Honkys". Neither gave a shit. Therefor no one was offended.



And JYD never cared about it. Again, why should anyone else who wasn't offended care instead?

That was my entire argument that it was never a big deal. It was my counter-argument to his question of why Pope was name-calling.

 

[ABMorales787]

That was my entire argument that it was never a big deal. It was my counter-argument to his question of why Pope was name-calling.

He's called Ric Flair "Dick Flair", he's called Samoa Joe "Sloppy Joe" and he's called Desmond Wolfe "Desmond Ruffie". He does that. Always has and no one's cared. It's non-issue.

 

[TheErikMoonShow]

@afterlife maybe you misunderstand. I said does anyone else find it hypocritical and offensive. I never stated who it was offensive to. I find the n word offensive but not offensive to me as a person. I am just juggling the idea of what is not PC. I didnt troll crap if you noticed I havent insulted a single poster. I am happy for the turnout and discussion. However some people have missed the point. Everyone percieves differences in what is racially insensitive or not. I like to look at everyones feelings and not just my own. I figured this would spark such conversation as Ive seen arguments on both ends of a very important issue. That is all.

 

[Kizzani]

I find it funny how once the word "Honkey" which as a white guy myself find to be ignorant because it has no meaning just something someone made up. It is not like he said cracker Which was a term used by blacks towards whites who crack the whip top get them to work I call that guy now Boss but he is Philippino, But I digress. You weren't offended when the Mexicans were combined and made at Americans, your not made when Jeff Jarret talks about how much better than all of mexico while he carries the AAA title. Your also not upset that Mark Henry is the longest reigning black Champion for a company that has been around since 1980's ( vince era). Your not mad because TNA has NEVER had a World champion of any color other than white ( except Saoma Joe) but throw one undefinable word and damn your up in arms.
Go to Any US border crossing drive back to the great USA and you'll find the real "Honkeys" thousands of people waiting for 1-5 hours to get home honking their horn like it makes a difference, Now that is a Honkey..bad news is many of them are Mexicans.

 

[J.J.]

My question is this: Did anyone else find it to be hypocritical and offensive?

I'm white and it doesn't offend me at all. I agree it's hypocritical. It's unfortunate.

And: Should action be taken to show that Racism toward any type of person should not be tolerated no matter where a person originates from?

No. If you're too sensitive to watch edgy TV than turn on a Disney movie. Special interest groups/thought police like the NAACP and GLAAD trying to censor entertainment is a lot bigger problem than someone on TV making a race joke.

Please discuss as I think this is a serious subject often overlooked because people dont see slurs vs "caucasions" to hold any bearing.

They don't have any bearing because there is no Caucasian special interest group to shove our agenda down everyone's throat, and threaten boycotts in order to gather attention for our cause.

I don't like racism, but I hate censorship even more.

You're out of line because NAACP was created to help bring forth equal rights, your view of it as "agenda shoving" is absurd. Ie. They tried to defend Troy Davis before he was wrongfully executed and the Scott Sisters a year ago who were serving a ridiculous prison stint for a petty crime. Those organization exist because black people are a minority in a country with no equal rights post-slavery at one point in time. I will tell you what's throat shoving agenda - I'm a veteran and im constantly ridiculed as being a "killer" for being on occupation in foreign land defending freedom here - or atleast thats the agenda "shoved down your throats" by mainstream media. My point is put yourself in black people shoes and you'll see why those organizations exist. GLAAD exist as an enforcement tool to enable tye gay and lesbian community is protected. Sadly TNA allowed Orlando Jordan to portray a gay in-ring character in the most foul way, doesnt matter if he is gay. Highly doubt he is that flamboyant in public. That's just an example

Democrats and Republicans - thats agenda shoving. Not a minority race trying to have equal rights. Im giving you the benefit of the doubt because you may just be misinterpreted. Speak of disliking censorship and because NAACP isn't what you want to hear it's agenda shoving.

 

[kor420]

Any time a racial slur sounds as ridiculous as "Honkey", then it's not so offensive.

Seriously though, no, it's not offensive. For many of the reasons Rayne stated. The N word and Honkey are not on the same level - by FAR. The N word has such powerful resonance and evokes feelings of anger, hatred, and has so many ties with the struggles African-Americans went through. Were white Americans slaves in the US? Were they considered "animals" and not equals? Nope. They were and still are the majority race. Everyone else is a minority.

This isn't even controversy. No one laughing in the Impact Zone didn't mean that they were like "OMG", it just meant that it was stupid and not funny. Not offensive though. Had it been a white person using a racial slur against a minority, then yes, it'd have been offensive. Again, because they're the minority.

Yes it was offensive and i was OMG i can't believe they just said that!!! So in your words it's okay to call a white person an "ignorant honkey" but it's not okay to call a black person a "ignorant nigg**"?

"Any time a racial slur sounds as ridiculous as "Honkey", then it's not so offensive."

Okay, nigg** sounds ridiculous to me, so is it okay to call a black person a nigg**? because to me its a ridiculous racial slur.

 

[J.J.]

Yes it was offensive and i was OMG i can't believe they just said that!!! So in your words it's okay to call a white person an "ignorant honkey" but it's not okay to call a black person a "ignorant nigg**"?

"Any time a racial slur sounds as ridiculous as "Honkey", then it's not so offensive."

Okay, nigg** sounds ridiculous to me, so is it okay to call a black person a nigg**? because to me its a ridiculous racial slur.

How do you weigh the n word on the same level as honky? Honky was a word that was actually embraced by many white people. What really defines a white racial word?

 

[kor420]

How do you weigh the n word on the same level as honky? Honky was a word that was actually embraced by many white people. What really defines a white racial word?

It don't goddamn mater if its not on the same level as the n word. The word "Honkey" is used as an insult to white people and yes it very much pisses me off. The n word is actually embraced by many black people too! But is it okay for another race to call a black person the n word?? Honkey is as racist as the n word in my book.

People act like every white person own slaves back then so it's fine to call them "Cracker", "Whitey" or "honkey" because white people owned slaves.

Newsflash ---- Only the wealthiest white people back then owned slaves, do you think that the poor white folks own slaves? WTF?? that would be like every poor person owning a ferrari!!!

I'm white not a honkey!!!

 

[J.J.]

It don't goddamn mater if its not on the same level as the n word. The word "Honkey" is used as an insult to white people and yes it very much pisses me off. The n word is actually embraced by many black people too! But is it okay for another race to call a black person the n word?? Honkey is as racist as the n word in my book.

People act like every white person own slaves back then so it's fine to call them "Cracker", "Whitey" or "honkey" because white people owned slaves.

Newsflash ---- Only the wealthiest white people back then owned slaves, do you think that the poor white folks own slaves? WTF?? that would be like every poor person owning a ferrari!!!

I'm white not a honkey!!!

Look at the history behind the n word and look at the history behind the word Honky. You are going to argue down that point. Why are you even offended, The Pope didn't personally call you one.

What does slavery and wealth have to do with this? Over half the English settlement here were poor white people. As close to slavery your ancestors seen was " indentured servitude" and in the end you were given acres of land for yourself, then came slavery because the work wasn't getting done.

Nothing is more offensive right now than your lack of gratitude towards understanding that the n word is far more offensive than honky.

 

[Sinister Shadows]

I find it funny how once the word "Honkey" which as a white guy myself find to be ignorant because it has no meaning just something someone made up. It is not like he said cracker Which was a term used by blacks towards whites who crack the whip top get them to work I call that guy now Boss but he is Philippino, But I digress. You weren't offended when the Mexicans were combined and made at Americans, your not made when Jeff Jarret talks about how much better than all of mexico while he carries the AAA title. Your also not upset that Mark Henry is the longest reigning black Champion for a company that has been around since 1980's ( vince era). Your not mad because TNA has NEVER had a World champion of any color other than white ( except Saoma Joe) but throw one undefinable word and damn your up in arms.
Go to Any US border crossing drive back to the great USA and you'll find the real "Honkeys" thousands of people waiting for 1-5 hours to get home honking their horn like it makes a difference, Now that is a Honkey..bad news is many of them are Mexicans.

Truth is a 2 time NWA Heavyweight Champion under the TNA banner.

 

[xxxdaniel_ariesxxx]

So how do you explain Mr. Fuiji waving a Japanese flag and carrying a bucket of salt when he accompanied Yoko to the ring?

Because Mr. Fuji is Japanese and Sumo is of Japanese origin, that explains the flag, and the Bucket of Salt, along with the geisha girls, flowers, robe and foot stomping and squatting before the match are all traditional Sumo rituals to purify the ring, drive away evil spirits , show respect to a Grand Master Sumo Champion, a Yokozuna, and show that you weren't hiding any weapons... How do you explain that from the very first time that Yokozuna appeared on WWF TV in October of 1992 they announced him as being from the Polynesian Islands?

 

[Defekt]

Because Mr. Fuji is Japanese and Sumo is of Japanese origin, that explains the flag, and the Bucket of Salt, along with the geisha girls, flowers, robe and foot stomping and squatting before the match are all traditional Sumo rituals to purify the ring, drive away evil spirits , show respect to a Grand Master Sumo Champion, a Yokozuna, and show that you weren't hiding any weapons... How do you explain that from the very first time that Yokozuna appeared on WWF TV in October of 1992 they announced him as being from the Polynesian Islands?

It's actually kinda odd that they billed him as from the Polynesian Islands, although alot of times they would also bill him as "representing Japan." It seems like the WWE went out of their way to portray him as being Japanese. Check out this clip where Gorilla introduces him as a "Japanese superstar." Maybe he was supposed to be an expat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4uQUnjbVp4&feature=related

 

[Rayne]

And the point Rayne is missing is that TNA doesn't control everything Pope says. This isn't the WWE, TNA wrestlers are not learning scripts by heart and every word they say is not checked and approved a million times over by Dixie Carter.

Wow, you believe TNA/IW wrestlers are going out there unscripted and having their material air unedited? Wow, you're more gullible than I've given you credit for.

 

[kor420]

Look at the history behind the n word and look at the history behind the word Honky. You are going to argue down that point. Why are you even offended, The Pope didn't personally call you one.

What does slavery and wealth have to do with this? Over half the English settlement here were poor white people. As close to slavery your ancestors seen was " indentured servitude" and in the end you were given acres of land for yourself, then came slavery because the work wasn't getting done.

Nothing is more offensive right now than your lack of gratitude towards understanding that the n word is far more offensive than honky.

You're making no sense, just think about what your saying, your saying that since the n word is more offensive than honky, then its fine for anyone to call a white person a honky because it's "less offensive".

So in other words it's okay for a black person (or any color for that matter) to use a racist slur towards a white person because it's "less offensive" why is it "less offensive"? because we're white?

What if the roles were reversed, what if morgan called pope and dvon "ignorant monkeys", would it be considered racist? you damn right it would be! what if the pope and dvon was Chinese and Morgan called them "Ignorant Chinks" would it be racist, damn skippy it would be!

But a white person gets called "whitey", "honky" and "cracker", but it's fine because it's a "less offensive".. So the n word word must be "less offensive" now because about every black person i know throws the n word around like it has no meaning, so it must be fine for me to say ****** now.

 

[JaeJarz]

Is there really any "effective" slur against white people? I think over the years I've heard them all and I can't think of any I would take personally.

 

[J.J.]

You're making no sense, just think about what your saying, your saying that since the n word is more offensive than honky, then its fine for anyone to call a white person a honky because it's "less offensive".

So in other words it's okay for a black person (or any color for that matter) to use a racist slur towards a white person because it's "less offensive" why is it "less offensive"? because we're white?

What if the roles were reversed, what if morgan called pope and dvon "ignorant monkeys", would it be considered racist? you damn right it would be! what if the pope and dvon was Chinese and Morgan called them "Ignorant Chinks" would it be racist, damn skippy it would be!

But a white person gets called "whitey", "honky" and "cracker", but it's fine because it's a "less offensive".. So the n word word must be "less offensive" now because about every black person i know throws the n word around like it has no meaning, so it must be fine for me to say ****** now.

I find it funny that a white person feels offended by a word that was directed at another Wrestler on TV. Did you even read my previous post talking about how JYD felt with racism, but he ignored it. While we are punching away at our keyboards somebody is being called a racial slur or abused physically or verbally because of the color of their skin. So you're offended? It's life, get over it. So why don't you write TNA and tell them how offended you are or petition to have the word buried like the NAACP did the N word. Start a movement to stop discrimination against the majority.

It's less offensive because there isn't centuries of violence associated with the word. That's the difference. I truly hope you are being sarcastic and not acting like a n word in the ignorant aspect.

 

[kor420]

I find it funny that a white person feels offended by a word that was directed at another Wrestler on TV. Did you even read my previous post talking about how JYD felt with racism, but he ignored it. While we are punching away at our keyboards somebody is being called a racial slur or abused physically or verbally because of the color of their skin. So you're offended? It's life, get over it. So why don't you write TNA and tell them how offended you are or petition to have the word buried like the NAACP did the N word. Start a movement to stop discrimination against the majority.

It's less offensive because there isn't centuries of violence associated with the word. That's the difference. I truly hope you are being sarcastic and not acting like a n word in the ignorant aspect.

Oh i would start a movement, but it would be considered racist if a bunch of white people got together and would be looked at as another white supremacy group and not be taken seriously and would be nothing more then a bunch of "redneck, honky, cracker" racist scum.

So just because they was forced to work and was beat gives them the right to refer to white people as honkys and crackers? Hell i didn't do a damn thing to them and neither did you so whats gives them the right to refer to a white person as a honky? Your double standards are hilarious and sad at the same time, let me ask you this, so am i freely allowed to say the ****** since it's not directed towards anyone? If you're white you should be ashamed and you're a disgrace to your race. If you're not white then you have no say in whats racist or isn't a racist slur towards a white person.

 

[J.J.]

Oh i would start a movement, but it would be considered racist if a bunch of white people got together and would be looked at as another white supremacy group and not be taken seriously and would be nothing more then a bunch of "redneck, honky, cracker" racist scum.

So just because they was forced to work and was beat gives them the right to refer to white people as honkys and crackers? Hell i didn't do a damn thing to them and neither did you so whats gives them the right to refer to a white person as a honky? Your double standards are hilarious and sad at the same time, let me ask you this, so am i freely allowed to say the ****** since it's not directed towards anyone? If you're white you should be ashamed and you're a disgrace to your race. If you're not white then you have no say in whats racist or isn't a racist slur towards a white person.

My argument has been that honky isn't not nearly offensive as the N word. I only found it funny because the word honky has been accepted by white people in popular culture or there's some that just don't find it offensive at all. But somehow you fall into the small percentage of people that feel violated. You feel oppressed now? Would you have even opened this topic for discussion had the op hadn't started it? Even majority of white people that posted in this thread wrote it off as non-offensive. If you're offended I can't help you there. You obviously have more lessons in life to learn as racism in some form will exist till end of time. I saw it growing up between black and whites, saw it while I was on occupation in Afghanistan, Iraq and i see it over here on a daily basis. You know how those people handle it? They ignore it because they feel there's no reason to argue down ignorance if it isn't violating any of their rights. I promise in life you'll be far more offended than hearing someone on Impact be called honky.

 

[Find'er Woo'er Ryder]

I get what you are saying. It's pretty sad when someone jumps on others cases about saying the N word but when another says something racist towards a white person then it's ok. This did not offend me at all but I do get what you are saying. I don't like racism at all so everything about it is stupid. It's sad that an over star like Pope has to draw heat from some stupid shit like that.

 

[Rayne]

But a white person gets called "whitey", "honky" and "cracker", but it's fine because it's a "less offensive".. So the n word word must be "less offensive" now because about every black person i know throws the n word around like it has no meaning, so it must be fine for me to say ****** now.

1) All of your arguments about how "******" isn't as bad of a word as people think have the wind completely knocked out of them by the fact that you haven't been able to bring yourself to spell the word out. You realize it's "******", not "nigg**", right? Why strike the last couple of letters if it isn't offensive? Are we playing a very, very easy version of "guess that word" with the boards?

2) "About every black person I know". I love this sentence fragment here, because it's such a loaded one. How many black people do you know? I mean, talk to on more than a weekly basis, not counting the television. The black people I know are sick of two things- one, the idea that because a couple of ignorant hood rats use the word ****** as casual slang, that it's no longer a word with a highly offensive history, and two, the idea that all black people must think the same, because they're black, and obviously all black people think alike, just like all white people think alike.

3) If someone else does it, then that must make it ok for me!

So the n word word must be "less offensive" now because about every black person i know throws the n word around like it has no meaning, so it must be fine for me to say ****** now.

Life would be incredibly easy for me if I took the lowest possible standard and said "other people aren't meeting this, so I shouldn't have to either!" Just because someone else does something doesn't mean that every possible analogue of that action (look it up, I use big words casually) is then permissible. So when I hear a kid- white, black, green or purple- going "***** this, ***** that" on a sidewalk, my instant reaction isn't "ALRIGHT! WE CAN SAY ****** NOW! Guys, it's OK! I HEARD A BLACK GUY SAY *****, IT'S AN OK WORD NOW!" It's actually more of "wow, that kid was raised like shit and he became shit." If setting a really low standard for yourself is how you meet goals, well, more power to you, I guess. Me personally, I prefer to aim high with my standards.

 

[HBsam31]

You're out of line because NAACP was created to help bring forth equal rights, your view of it as "agenda shoving" is absurd. Ie. They tried to defend Troy Davis before he was wrongfully executed and the Scott Sisters a year ago who were serving a ridiculous prison stint for a petty crime. Those organization exist because black people are a minority in a country with no equal rights post-slavery at one point in time. I will tell you what's throat shoving agenda - I'm a veteran and im constantly ridiculed as being a "killer" for being on occupation in foreign land defending freedom here - or atleast thats the agenda "shoved down your throats" by mainstream media. My point is put yourself in black people shoes and you'll see why those organizations exist. GLAAD exist as an enforcement tool to enable tye gay and lesbian community is protected. Sadly TNA allowed Orlando Jordan to portray a gay in-ring character in the most foul way, doesnt matter if he is gay. Highly doubt he is that flamboyant in public. That's just an example

Democrats and Republicans - thats agenda shoving. Not a minority race trying to have equal rights. Im giving you the benefit of the doubt because you may just be misinterpreted. Speak of disliking censorship and because NAACP isn't what you want to hear it's agenda shoving.

I am sorry but I have to agree that the NAACP likes to shove there agenda down our throats. I am a white man and no one comes to my aid and protests for me if I am treated unfairly. If you ask me african americans have it pretty well in this day and age, I mean how long are we going to keep using slavery as an excuse to kiss their asses..

 

[Zeven_Zion]

Wow, you believe TNA/IW wrestlers are going out there unscripted and having their material air unedited? Wow, you're more gullible than I've given you credit for.

The majority do go out there unscripted. They're given bullet points. If you consider bullet points as a script, then go nuts, they're scipted. I highly doubt Prichard sat Pope down and said "I want you to act heelish, I want you to say you'll do ANYTHING to win the belts, and call one of them a honkey. DO NOT forget the honkey part. We'll make a ton of money by you saying that on TAPED FUCKING TELEVISION, we'll garner a lot of attention from the mainstream media by having a black guy say a term that only offends sissies, so don't fuck it up, TNA's future depends on it".

And of course they edit their promos. Stop twisting my words. They're far more lenient with what goes on the air. Am I right or am I correct?

Your point was that TNA is trying to promote themselves as edgier by having Pope say "honkey" on TV. Yes, they are trying to promote themselves as edgier. That's why most of their promos sound like dub step with all the beeps. However, the honkey shit was not a case of such promotion. That point is one hundred per-cent bullshit. Why? Weeeeeell if you wanted to garner attention from the audience with anything said or done, I highly doubt you'd have The Pope do it or say it. He ain't exactly a ratings magnet or an important figure in Impact Wrestling.

wCw didn't form the nWo out of fuckin' low carders, did they? No. They wanted to convey a message, and they did it through the likes of Hogan, Nash and Hall.


My point is that it's something Pope probably said and TNA didn't feel it needed editing or bleeping out because honkey is not a "bad" word and it was funny.

But leave it to Rayne to blow something out of proportion and go George Lucas on its ass, giving it its own life, a fucking backstory, a plot, an agenda, a tipping point and an ending.

P.S: Butterflies are not Pterodactyls. Makin' sure you know.

 

[J.J.]

I am sorry but I have to agree that the NAACP likes to shove there agenda down our throats. I am a white man and no one comes to my aid and protests for me if I am treated unfairly. If you ask me african americans have it pretty well in this day and age, I mean how long are we going to keep using slavery as an excuse to kiss their asses..

When are you treated unfairly? You are part of thr majority in this country. Let me repeat...YOU ARE PART OF THE MAJORITY. You own the banks, corporations, govetnmrnt and so on, you have a strong voixce. Even if you were a financially pior white man your voice would be more heard than a rich black man. Because again, you represent the majority. That is why you don't have groups defending your Civil Rights because your ehite ancestors created those laws/rights. You could wear spiked hear to a job interview and get the job, black male go on an interview with braids and they're instantly stereotyped and labeled a thug. Black person drives an expensive vehicle or a car with oversized rims and they're labeled a drug dealer. Another stereotype.

Although the Civil Rights movement happened, the fact is while laws were passed, the laws were not passed in many white peoples hearts. So when NAACP is standing up for blscks you remember that black people are the minority here obliging to white man made laws and NAACP is placed to see if the laws and rights are equal to blacks as well.

Want to know what's shoving something down black people's throats? In order for a black man to put dinner on their family's table they have to be an expert on white society. They cannot graduate from school without reading white people's literature, studying white people's music and art. They cannot make it without understanding white people's history. Every day that a black person wakes up they have to make judgments about what white people are going to do today simply in order to survive. White people do not have to understand or know what black people are doing in order to survive.

As a result of black expertise on white folks they know them better than they know themselves. In addition, the sad fact is that blacks know white people better than blacks know themselves. Blacks have a far greater capacity as African Americans to love and forgive white people than black people do to love and forgive ourselves. That they have not made white people the enemy in spite of all that they have inflicted on blacks. But you keep locking blacks out.

So blacks got it easy because now they can get a front table at Red Lobster, or can be city officials - while on the outside black and whites appear equal - on the inside it isn't. Let that sink in because I know black people dont have it easy, and i know that because i am black and live that "easy" life. You're a majority and you feel oppressed, yeah okay - try walking in my shoes for 34 years.

 

[AGLegend01]

I am African American male who has been subjected to racism several times in life. Personally, what Pope said, was wrong and makes us Blacks look bad. Racism against any person of any race is wrong. Period....