Problems With the MCU

[SSJPhenom]

So I've already done the thread about what MCU film that we think is the best or is our favorite. With this thread, I want to explore what problems or issues you guys might have with the MCU. I'm talking problems with the characters, stories, etc. Anything that you can think of.

The only issue that I have with the MCU is that they don't clearly explain a lot of their character's abilities. For example, the Winter Soldier; is he a super soldier like Captain America or is it just that metal arm that makes him stronger than regular humans? I think that he has to be a super soldier because he's done a lot of things with other parts of his body besides his left arm that are beyond regular human capacity. In Winter Soldier he jumps from an over pass down to the ground while his henchmen have to use ropes. He kicks a guy so hard that he flew into the propeller of a jet. He was able to fight hand to hand with Cap and keep up. In Civil War he jumps from a very high floor of a building to a lower building. He, again, jumps from an over pass down onto a road and then proceeds to out run cars. He also, while he was on the motorcycle, caught Black Panther by the throat with one hand that happened to be his normal hand. There's a lot more than that too. So he's done several things to show he's a super soldier, but they've never outright confirmed it.

Then there's Vision. If you're not a comic book aficionado then you have no idea what the Vision is capable of. When my siblings and I were watching Civil War, they asked about 4 times how Vision did something. My brother asked, "If his body is made out of that metal, how does he fly and go through things?" I explained it away as him using the Mind Stone but still, the MCU doesn't explain it at all. I know the Vision can increase or decrease his molecular density at will from being harder than diamonds to being intangible, but people not familiar with Vision don't know he can do that.

Then there's the Scarlet Witch. I have no problems with them changing her origin from being a mutant that can only manipulate probability to being enhanced and having telekinesis and telepathy powers. That doesn't bother me. What bothers me is that they don't explain how her powers work. Usually telekinesis is moving things with the mind, but she appears to be using energy of some sort. So explain it. Explain how, in Age of Ultron, she was able to fire an energy blast at the robots and disintegrate them. That's more than just telekinesis.

Let's talk about Thor. I still don't know what Thor's or the other Asgardian's abilities really are for that matter. In the comics, Thor is often times the most powerful Avenger. He can do a lot more than just summon a little lightening. He has the God Blast and he can literally match strength with the Hulk. In the MCU, Thor seems to be just a little stronger than humans or other Asgardians. I mean, he fought evenly with Iron Man when really, he should've been able to tear Iron Man apart. In the Dark World, that Dark Berserker Elf was over powering him easily. Yet, in Age of Ultron, Thor throws a woman from her falling car up to Cap with one hand and he carries that other car back up to the island with one hand. So what are Thor's strength levels and have the MCU made him terribly weaker than his comics counterpart?

Also, why does Cap get stronger and stronger in the MCU? In the First Avenger and Avengers he wasn't really all that strong. I mean, sure, he was impressive, but he wasn't really super powered, which is where he should be. Then we get to Age of Ultron and he's going toe to toe with Ultron. Then we get to Civil War and he's over powering Spider-Man and going toe to toe with Iron Man which he shouldn't be able to do. At one point, in Civil War, he grabs Iron Man, whose flying at full speed, by the leg with one hand and is able to stop him. Let's not even discuss how he held a helicopter down and kept it from flying away and pulled it back to the building.

Explain these things!!!

Let me know your opinions.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

You're seeming to forget (unless I missed it, because I did not read every word) that these are movies, not books. If they explained every little thing the movie would be 6 hours long and would be awful. If you get away from your story and delve into, what really amounts to, minor details then you lose the part of the audience that isn't huge comic book fans (last part really only refers to comic book movies, but applies more in general to all movies). This is also the reason you always hear, "the book was so much better than the movie!"

Also, Thor went toe to toe with Hulk in the first Avengers. Pretty sure that alone says that he's a pretty strong character. Him coming to a draw, albeit in a shortened fight, with Iron Man could easily be explained by the writers wanting to build Iron Man up to his level. Not to mention, Thor made it clear he wasn't there to fight him anyway. So he probably was taking it easy on him.

 

[Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.]

As a hardcore Marvel fan, I have to say, you are right.

Thor
However, Thor is definately not an average guy in the films. He is a god, god of lightning, he is a skilled fighter as seen in Thor 2 and can summon lighting, which is OP. Sure, he had to be toned down, because too much OP is never good for the story except when you have the actual time to build up to it and back it up.

Scarlett Witch and Vision
Yeah, I had a major problem with those two, because we never fully understood the Witch's powers. In Avengers 2, she enters their mind, then she has telekinisis.
The truth is, from a story perspective, you are not supposed to understand her powers, because I think even she does not now them. The only thing we know is that they also come from one gem (which gem was I don't remember).
On to Vision, same problem like you said.

I just hope in the future those powers will be explained with Doctor Strange coming out and more films going in depth at the Infinity Stones.

Captain America
I don't think Cap is gettng stronger, I actually think he should be way more stronger than what he actually is. Maybe it just seems to you that way, because in The First Avenger there really wasn't any supervillain like Ulton, except Red Skull, who you know, has the same strength as Cap himself.
Cap should be able to go toe to toe with Ultron really. As far as him overpowering Spiderman, it was the right call. Spidey's still a kid and Cap can own him any time, iin the comics.
The only problem was that they showed us that Spiderman>Winter Soldier & Falcon, when they had Winter Soldier=Captain America. That was a slight mistake. But you can still say that Bucky was caught by surprise and that he's not really on par with Captain, because he's been running from him, not fighting him really.

Bucky I think is supposed to be a Super Soldier. Didn't they say that they recreated, somewhat, the Super Soldier serum?

EDIT: See the positive side, at least it's not a group of common thugs, formed to take down the next Superman and go mess with a witch.

 

[SSJPhenom]

I'm not saying that they should explain every little thing in great detail. Just make it easier to understand the characters. Literally one line of dialogue is all it would take.

In Winter Soldier's case, in the movie Winter Soldier, when Cap and Widow were talking with Zola; have him say something like, "Have you met our Winter Soldier yet Captain? He's a lot like you". Bam, explained. In Vision's case have him say, "My abilities are afforded me by the stone on my head", or something else. (Sounded like something he'd say) In Thor's case, when Stark said, "No hard feelings point break, you've got a mean swing". Have Thor retort, "You haven't seen anything yet", or something like that.

Bam, explained. I don't want them to run down a list of what they can do and how, but better explanation would be nice. Also, I don't call Thor hitting Hulk all of twice going toe to toe with him. Hulk was throwing Thor every which way.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

In Winter Soldier's case, in the movie Winter Soldier, when Cap and Widow were talking with Zola; have him say something like, "Have you met our Winter Soldier yet Captain? He's a lot like you". Bam, explained.

Maybe they're giving, I don't know, some credit to the viewers? Their fights seem pretty even. It would not be difficult for the viewer to infer that, hey, maybe they're a lot a like...

In Vision's case have him say, "My abilities are afforded me by the stone on my head", or something else. (Sounded like something he'd say)

I hope not.

Have Thor retort, "You haven't seen anything yet", or something like that.

This literally explains nothing about Thor's powers. Maybe he knows some good card tricks

Also, I don't call Thor hitting Hulk all of twice going toe to toe with him. Hulk was throwing Thor every which way.

Yeah. You're right. It's not like Hulk would crush, literally, most mortal men... Let's also not forget that that sequence had a hell of a lot more than one fight going on. You didn't see all of it.

Now that you've explained your argument further, you come off as a two pump chump. You can't wait for these things to be fleshed out with further development of the characters as their movies/stories progress. If Thor debuts his God Blast against Ultron, for example, what makes it so special when he needs it in Ragnarok? Also, what makes that challenge so much more difficult then? Have you ever heard the term "always leave them wanting more"? I mean, if you blow your entire load right at the beginning, where's the satisfaction in the rest?

 

[SSJPhenom]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. You literally sound like a fan boy who goes apeshit when anyone dares to have an opinion of these films other than they're great (which they are), but they're not perfect.

Just a little more explanation is all I want. If I'm a chump for wanting that then so be it. It beats having to explain to the non comic book initiated in the room what's going on. You have to remember, most of the characters in these films are c level, non popular characters (the films have made them popular but before then, not so much). The less explanation works with characters like Superman or Spider-Man because everybody knows their powers and story by now. It doesn't work so well with Vision or Scarlet Witch.

I'll leave it there though because you seem incapable of having a discussion with differing opinions.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. You literally sound like a fan boy who goes apeshit when anyone dares to have an opinion of these films other than they're great (which they are), but they're not perfect.

I'll leave it there though because you seem incapable of having a discussion with differing opinions.

Now that's funny. No, the fan boy is the one who complains that they change how people's powers actually work or their backstories because they're not like the comic books. My point is simply that these movies are made for the casual viewer and not comic book readers who know many more intricate details that generally just make them complain about everything. Again, it goes back to "the book was better than the movie" argument. They're not going to give you every little detail about Spiderman, for example, in one movie and then immediately move the franchise to The Amazing Spiderman. Rinse. Repeat. Spiderman 2099, etc. No. They milk the character and story slowly and make multiple movies out of that one franchise. It's simple business. But it's not conducive to your point, so clearly I'm at fault.

And I do have my own opinions on faults in these movies. My most recent would be Vision in Civil War. He was mostly an afterthought. I mean he has a freaking Infinity Stone on his head, making him extremely powerful, and the most he did was make Hawkeye look insignificant in comparison and practically kill Rhodes. He's also a handy babysitter. You know, until the baby throws him through the floor. All that after being a crucial part in defeating Ultron. How much sense does that make? But I'm sure some fan boy could explain more of that to me. I would imagine it has something to do with his infatuation with Scarlet Witch.

EDIT: And also, since you mention a lot of these characters are lesser known, it makes it that much easier for the studio to change things and hold other things back.

 

[SSJPhenom]

You see, I don't care about them changing things. I said that in my first post. Idc that they change things, if that's what you think then you should re-read my post. That doesn't matter to me in the slightest, however, when I literally have people asking me, "how'd so and so do that? I don't understand such and such's powers, etc". That to me means they've done a shit job of explaining their abilities. Watch Blade. It's specifically said in the movie that he has all of a vampires strengths, none of their weaknesses except for the thirst. Explained. Watch the Daredevil show or movie, they specifically explain his abilities and how they work. Same for Jessica Jones. They don't do these things in the MCU films though. Hell, they explained more about Spider-Man in 5 min than they have for Vision or Scarlet Witch in 2 movies. They literally gave us his abilities and motivations in that one scene with Stark.

Idc about changes. I just want more explanation.

 

[Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.]

Actually Marvel hasn't really changed any characters from the comics and they are movies for both the comic fan and the casual viewer. If you want a movie which is just for the casual viewer, check out Suicide Squad.

But hey, we know that Vision and Scarlet Witch got their powers from the stones, so that's all we need to know, like we know that Spider-Man was beaten by a spider and Cap got his from the Super Soldier serum. They never told us what the serum would make Captain did they, nor we knew what abilities Spiderman had until they were showcased.

That's what's happening with the MCU.

 

[Барбоса]

Too many heroes are too powerful so the writers are always struggling to invent some kind of silly reason for them to be sidelined or they just intentionally forget about them.

I recently watched Thor: Dark World - not great but its end highlights these issues pretty well.

Regardless of what you thought of Malekith, he was an even bigger threat than the likes of Loki and the Chitauri or Ultron, so where were the rest of the Avengers or SHIELD? The universe, nay the multiverse is in imminent peril on Earth and only Thor, his girlfriend, two interns and a mad professor are there to do anything about it?

And this problem is only going to get worse as more increasingly god-like beings are introduced.

You could argue that Thanos might not have given much of a shit about the multiverse going dark (although he does want the Infinity Stones so he had some interest in taking the Aether from Malekith), but I am sure we will meet others who would very much want to go on living in the light.

"Oh, hey Galactus/Beyonder/Ancient One etc.! Whoa, look how powerful and all-seeing you are... wait... why didn't you do something about the whole "significant part of the uni/multiverse you reside in/feed from about to be destroyed" thing happened?"

 

[Kodo Sawaki]

In most cases you just need to suspend belief in order to deal with their powers or even their actions. Like how did Cap know that Spiderman can hold that huge crate and that it wont just crush him like a bug? As for powers in same movie Scarlet Witch just shut down Vision. That is just ridiculous considering he is power- wise probably most powerfull Avenger and that she just got her ass handed to her from Hawkeye of all heroes in "Age of Ultron".

And its not just Marvel, its DC also. In "Justice League" cartoon we have Superman who falls from one punch from enemy not that powerfull to Superman who goes toe to toe with Darkseid and wins. So you could see that writers in both cases just do what is convinient for plot and that they dont bother with explaining powers.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Too many heroes are too powerful so the writers are always struggling to invent some kind of silly reason for them to be sidelined or they just intentionally forget about them.

I recently watched Thor: Dark World - not great but its end highlights these issues pretty well.

Regardless of what you thought of Malekith, he was an even bigger threat than the likes of Loki and the Chitauri or Ultron, so where were the rest of the Avengers or SHIELD? The universe, nay the multiverse is in imminent peril on Earth and only Thor, his girlfriend, two interns and a mad professor are there to do anything about it?

And this problem is only going to get worse as more increasingly god-like beings are introduced.

You could argue that Thanos might not have given much of a shit about the multiverse going dark (although he does want the Infinity Stones so he had some interest in taking the Aether from Malekith), but I am sure we will meet others who would very much want to go on living in the light.

"Oh, hey Galactus/Beyonder/Ancient One etc.! Whoa, look how powerful and all-seeing you are... wait... why didn't you do something about the whole "significant part of the uni/multiverse you reside in/feed from about to be destroyed" thing happened?"

See, this I sort of agree with. Like in Iron Man 3, it was very well covered by the media that Stark was up against, what seemed like a super terrorist with an army. They even blew up Stark's house and took the damn President hostage. Where the fuck were the Avengers or SHIELD for that one?

Now I can understand why they wouldn't help Cap with Winter Soldier. That wasn't really known about until it was over. I can also understand why some of the characters you mentioned wouldn't have gotten involved in Thor: Dark World, because hey, they haven't been introduced in the MCU yet, but where were the Avengers? That I agree with.

For those talking about they never explain the heroes powers, you're right and wrong at the same time. They don't run down a list of powers and explain beat for beat, but they do explain some of them. In Civil War, when Stark was in Parker's bedroom; they, in that one scene, explained his abilities and motivations. Stark showed the video of him catching a car and said how that wasn't easy catching 3'000 lbs at high speed. Implying super strength. Also in the video we see him web slinging. Stark even asked who made the web and said the tensile strength was off the charts. Implying Spidey was very smart and that his webs were super strong. Stark asked how was he crawling on walls. Telling us he had that ability. Parker said when he got his powers his senses were dialed up to 11; telling us he had heightened senses. Stark even asked why he does what he does and Parker said when you can do those things but don't and something bad happens it's your fault. Giving us his motivations. We got all of that in that one scene.

Well they never did anything like that for Vision, Winter Soldier, and all they gave us on Scarlet Witch was telepathy and telekinesis from the mind stone. I can understand them not telling us much about Black Panther because he has a solo film coming and I'm sure they'll delve into that then.

Don't get me wrong, I love the MCU. They have some of, if not the best action/comic book movies out. Some things, though, don't make sense and it's things that can easily be fixed.