Posthumous Praise

[Paralyzer Z]

Everyone dies at one point, every will die at one point, after death there are emotional responses, when a an entertainer or in this case a wrestler dies, it is not difference except that the reaction is put onto a larger scale by fans. Over time there have been dozens of deceased pro wrestler, a majority of them unknown. However it is when a wrestling superstar that was at one point or another associated with WWE or another major wrestler, passes away, on most occasions there is a appropriate response, on some it turns out to be the ultimate exploitation of hypocrisy.

The praise given to many of the deceased former WWE stars like Eddie Guerrero, and the Macho Man Randy Savage (I know there are more but I will only use these 2 examples) is indeed appropriate. Guys like these are legends, men who reached the top by giving us everything they had to offer, and beyond that as well. These men were gifted wrestlers that deserve every Youtube comment that goes "R.I.P macho man FTW or thumbs up" as well as the TV tributes done by WWE. Awards by internet critics including a posthumous award for lifetime achievement have been earned by these guys. They were a success and have the privilege to have their legacies kept in the minds of the fans.

Then there are other kind of post death praise. When a mid-carder or any non popular or superstar had a sudden passing, the wrestling world explodes the same way, with a hyperbolic reaction. Lets use Umaga and Test as examples here. Be honest did you care about them before they died? Did you not go on boards like these and say that they were going to fail to ever be something special in the likes of Hulk Hogan? When Test had his unfortunate death, I saw people saying he was one of the greatest ever lived, that he was a legend, and that he could even be compared to Hogan (was not here on this forum). The guy never achieved legend status or even main event status for that long during his career. The sad truth applies to Umaga and dare I say it.. Owen Hart. Hart is a touchy subject to the matter in which he died but again be honest" If he had not died that night would he be heralded as the absolute legend that he currently is? People over exaggerate these guys to the maximum! I have all the respect in the world these guys and their accolades, but they are not the best in the world and the extreme adulation is not needed not relevant.


What do you think of the posthumous adulation received by wrestlers like Test, Umaga, and others that did not do much (Main event and legend status wise) to deserve it? Is it needed, is it relevant?

Do these guys deserve to be called the best in the world, only based on the fact that they are deceased professional wrestlers?

 

[Skinsley]

When it comes to a Person who worked for a company loosing their life. They should be treated no different from the rest of the workers who may have lost their lives.
They should be given just as much recognition and although their highlite reel will be shorter or less prestigious they should still be remembered.
Without the Mid Card there would be no Main event.... without people like Test and Umaga to help people get over there would have been no John Cena or Chris Jericho.
ETC. ETC.

Crash Holly in my eyes was never a special talent....was never a brilliant Mic worker and his in ring ability was not at the level of an Eddie Guerrero or a Chris Benoit. But the man sure as hell gave it a shot....and I enjoyed his appearances on my telivision and on the DVD's I own. His Evenescence - Immortal Tribute Video brought tears to my eyes and I believe he deserved every drop.

I Highly doubt that the intent of this thread was to insult or disrespect anyone, but you have indeed done just that.

Test may not have been able to break through the Upper Mid Card, but he gave us several interesting Feud's and was able to put on a good show for us all. What you may not have noticed is that being in the Mid Card of the WWE is still the 99th step of the 100 it takes to get to the top..... now tell me he does not deserve to be recognized for his efforts ?

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

Before someone criticizes you for being an insensitive jack-ass, I just want to say I think this is a perfectly valid question. A man or woman's death does not suddenly increase the legacy they left behind. Does it make it more precious or important to look back on? Perhaps. But some of the posthumous praise given to mediocre-at-best talents is beyond my comprehension. Andre the Giant, Randy Savage, Eddie Guerrero, and even to an extent Chris Benoit deserve the praise (or general infamy in Benoit's case), but it's just not rue for a lot of guys. God rest their soul, and I thank them for their accomplishments and dedication to the craft, but reality can only be stretched so far to fit bleeding hearts.

In the case of Umaga, I don't think it was blown that far out of proportion. Unlike many I did enjoy his work, and I have always loved the Samoan gimmick and bloodline. I was very disappointed by his passing, and even more to find out that his WWE release was due to his refusal to enter a drug rehabilitation program. Still, a very talented man that did a lot of solid work in his short time with the company.

I often wonder if people would still regard the Von Erich family as one of, if not the greatest families in wrestling, if three of them had not committed suicide, and one had not died due to disease. It's even worse since several of them wrestled in the Golden Age, and anybody who wrestled in the late 70s and 80s seems to get an instant shot of credibility from fans today. I'm not saying they don't deserve the praise, because I honestly know very little about them. But you would think, if they were as great as legend says they are, I would know more about them as a fan of the wrestling industry in general. At the end of the day, my ignorance reigns supreme in this case...

On a more controversial note, I've always thought Owen Hart was a bit overrated. Don't get me wrong, he did a lot of great work in the wrestling industry! But the way some people regard him, you'd think he was the greatest thing to come out of Canada! Owen was not Bret in the ring, and he wasn't Jericho on the mic by any stretch of the imagination. He was good, but I think his talent has been greatly exaggerated by his death.

 

[Radical Canadian Goose]

Enough is Enough and its time for a change.

Sorry had to quote Owen on this subject.


Great topic and I won't call you insensitive although most may. As far as I'm concerned you are right . Wrestlers like Test, Umaga, Crash Holly, Louie Spicolli and (dare I say it) Brian Pillman were viewed as legendary superstars posthumously. Guess what they were all midcarders and should be viewed that way. They were all memorable talents, don't get me wrong, but none of them need to be glorified because of their deaths.

 

[Big Sexy]

It's just the nature of the business no matter how ridiculous it is. When someone dies before their time while they are still an active performer then they are going to get overrated.

Owen Hart and Eddie Guerrero are easily the two most overrated superstars ever because of their early deaths. Hart was a career mid carder who had one good main event feud with his brother. Eddie Guerrero was a career mid carder who had one decent run with the World Title. These guys get treated like legends and all time greats simply because they died at a young age.

 

[Mitch Henessey]

Some wrestlers, who die an unexpected and tragic death just don't live up to the great praises some fans and sympathizers place on them. It's a cold hard truth, but that's just the way it is. I've been guilty of this in the past sometimes, and unjustifiable praises for certain dead wrestlers is something a lot of us have been guilty of, because you can always have that strong "what could've been" feeling. Some of these wrestlers probably showed signs of promise, and they probably could've had a shot at a long run in the main event scene, so their sudden deaths can cause sadness, because you never know what can happen in the world of pro wrestling. Some guys can become hot out of nowhere, they can reach the main event level, and in some cases, it just takes more time, or the right push and proper build.

A good amount of dead wrestlers, who died untimely deaths receive inflated legacies, because fans will look back on their careers, and they'll pick out the good moments, and think about the great success they could've enjoyed, if they had more time. I enjoyed Umaga's work as a monster heel, Test was a favorite of mine as a kid, and he was a solid mid card performer. Owen Hart had a few great matches with Bret, and their feud was very enjoyable, and he was a consistent mid card guy. But some of these wrestlers have become glorified legends after their deaths, and they receive "posthumous praise," but this glory stems from their unexpected deaths. Some people just can't face the hard fact, and fans/mourners will continue to pile on the praise, but the status of these so called legendary careers can be exaggerated most of the time.

 

[Foshinzo]

I'll start with this: Owen was the ultimate mid-carder who should have been more than a mid-carder, but his death was so widely responded to because he died in the ring and his tenure with the company had made him beloved by all.

Sorry about the all-caps, there, but that whole statement I thought needed to be stressed.

As for the other wrestlers you mentioned, I never cried for any of them. I've only ever cried for three wrestlers: Owen, Eddie, and Savage. Owen because I was watching Over the Edge when it happened, I still remember the look on Lawler's face when JR announced that Owen had died, and it was just devastating because you couldn't believe it. You mean that Owen Hart, a greatly loyal person and a much beloved performer, just died in the ring from a stupid stunt gone wrong? That couldn't possibly be true.

I remember really noticing Owen during that tag match he did at the 92 Royal Rumble. He was one of those agile guys that helped to bring about the end of the bodybuilders in the WWF, and his death was just so pointless.

I cried for Eddie later, after it hit me that he had gone through all of his trials and tribulations with drugs and self-abuse. Eddie's story was devastating because he had conquered his demons, but they came back to finish him off with a cheap shot. Eddie Guerrero, for all intensive purposes, should have been an comeback story of epic proportions, where he proved that it's never too late to turn your life around. Instead, he reminded us that we can't escape our past and serves as a precautionary tale that you can't run for forever.

Finally, I cried for Savage because he was my childhood icon. When he started the Mega Powers with Hogan, he became and never stopped being my favorite wrestler of all time. Even more than Piper, Savage was my favorite. His death just reminded me that I'm older, and losing my Dad back in the 90s at a young age made me a softy. Some people cried when Mr. Rodgers died, but I cried when Macho Man Randy Savage died.

As for the other guys like Brian Pillman and Junk Yard Dog, I didn't cry, but I still honor these people. I've written some vastly complimentary stuff on this website about Brian Pillman, but that's just because I believed it when he was alive.

Guys like Test and Umaga make us sad, but I get that trying to honor them by suggesting that they would have been future world champions is just going too far. Would anyone say that Crash Holly could have done so much more? I know it seems rude to say things like that, but all we should say is that we're sad that it happened and then move on. Unless you can honestly say that you, for some reason, loved these guys when they were alive, you're just trying too hard to honor them. I say leave the real honoring to the people who actually knew the deceased, and let's not engage in forced hyperbole.

 

[MFR0mack]

Personally, I think calling Owen Hart overrated is one of the most insulting things anyone could say, and not just because of his death.

Owen was a mid-card talent, yeah, but he was a mid-card talent that was always climbing and expanding when you looked at him. His in-ring work was top-notch and watching just his WWE stuff from '93 to '99 showed that no matter, no matter who he faced, the man could drag a decent match out of them & entertain people.

He was a naturally-born heel, he was good on the stick and he made you love to hate him. He was a high-flyer in his early days, but some knee injuries stopped him from doing so much of that, but he still managed to put on some great technical exhibitions. Everyone wants to just remember him for his fued with Bret, but his two amazing matches with the British Bulldog, his series with Shawn Michaels, his series with Austin, him carrying his team with Yokozuna and his run with Jeff Jarrett will all always be a part of my wrestling memory.

I've made the argument before that he could have been a Jeff Hardy of the 90s. Seemingly stuck in mid-card for a decade only to rise to the top & light up the fans. When he returned after the Montreal Screwjob as the Blackheart, attacking Shawn Michaels at the DX PPV in December '97, the crowd went nuts for him. With the right kind of push, that could have kept happening. But he was always overlooked by McMahon & Pat Patterson as a guy that could go out there and do it. Bret talks about this in his book, Shawn Michaels also mentions Owen's amazing talent & I remember seeing shoot interviews with wrestlers talking about how Owen was passed up for bigger guys or guys who went edgier in the Attitude era.

There's that long-standing story Triple H told about how "The Game" was a gimmick that was supposed to be Owen's... Many have doubted the integrity of those words, claiming it was just something said after the fact to make him seem more important. I don't see it that way at all. Owen was a solid talent that worked his ass off for years for the company, even when he was alive and dirt sheets started running rampant in the business, there was never a bad word printed about him. Pre or post-humous, everyone had the ultimate respect for the guy and I feel he could have made it to the top with that one last push...

 

[Dagger Dias]

Death does not change how I feel about a wrestler. I think that Eddie and Benoit were among the best. I felt that way when they were still alive. Their tragic deaths changed nothing about how I felt other than that I wished I could have seen more matches. Umaga was a future main eventer. I thought he had the potential but might never get there. Then when he started talking it hit me that he will be a world title contender soon. Then he died. I still stand by my statement that he could have main evented someday. His death didn't bring that thought to me, his improvements and accomplishments over the years did. I never liked Test and never saw what was so great about him. I didn't like him when he was alive, and while it's sad that he died, that didn't make me suddenly start liking him. I can understand an amount of respect for a wrestler increasing if they die because it's sad when people die younger than they should, but we should be respecting them for their accomplishments in their careers, not for how they died.

 

[Larry]

I think each case speaks for itself. I think realistically we can look at each one and see which ones have been embellished and received more praise than their careers actually validated and which ones didn't. For me personally Eddie and Benoit are both cases where the tragedies of their deaths made them completely over hyped. Say what you want about that, disagree, but I personally never cared for either guy no matter how good everyone says they were or how much everyone falls over themselves giving either man praise. I thought it was a travesty that either one ever became WWE or World Heavyweight champion, and that is was a slap in the face to everyone else there who were better than them in every way, including the guys who put them over.

Test, Umaga, Chris Candido, Crash Holly, John Tenta, Ray Traylor, Mike Awesome, JYD, Bad News Brown, Brian Adams, Lance Cade, Brian Pillman, the list goes on and on of guys that died and suddenly became everyone's hero, everyone's favorite, a national treasure, and a global icon. I don't blame these men who died obviously, it wasn't their faults. But it is quite irritating when these men die and suddenly people who couldn't care less about them start talking about how they are such great legends and how wonderful they were, especially considering the lack of success many of them had.

Mach, Mr. Perfect, Owen, Bam Bam Bigelow, British Bulldog, these are examples of men who died and deserved all the accolades they got. Each one was special in their own ways and meant a lot to people well before they died. It's a shame that any of them died prematurely or but there is an appropriate and inappropriate amount of praise or reflecting to be done in any said case.

 

[Peoples_Champ]

^ I see it a bit differently than Ba-Bomb. I don't think they instantly become national treasures, but when these stars die, people start to remember the impact that the wrestler had on the industry and their lives.

Look at John Tenta for example. Nobody cared about him until he died, but then when he passed, people had fond memories. I, for one, was in that category. I didn't care for him while he was alive, but when he died, I remember watching the Hogan / Earthquake feud, his finishing move and watching him on WCW for a bit. It took me back to some nice memories of when I enjoyed the product significantly more than I do now.

Basically, what I'm trying to say, is that professional wrestling is not just 'sports' or 'entertainment,' it's an art form. There's a winner, a loser and a story in between. We remember great artisans (painters, singers, writers / poets, etc.) for the same reason we remember great wrestlers - they evoked a unique emotion out of us that we've long since forgotten. For me, still using the Tenta example, I remember him for scaring me into believing that Hulk Hogan could be crushed into oblivion and Hulkamania could die forever. That's why I remember John Tenta fondly, even though he wasn't the greatest performer or a major title holder.

 

[Larry]

^ I see it a bit differently than Ba-Bomb. I don't think they instantly become national treasures, but when these stars die, people start to remember the impact that the wrestler had on the industry and their lives.

I just thought I'd clarify for you that I was being sarcastic about that, exaggerating what people say, as they exaggerate these fallen wrestlers, their actual impacts, how good they really were, etc....Also I totally get where you're coming from and also remember the whole Hogan-Earthquake feud and thinking "This could be it for the Hulkster" as a kid. Totally on the same page.

 

[IWChampion]

This is interesting because I never liked Eddie or Benoit until after their deaths. But I think the reason for that is the fact that their characters weren't that interesting to me before, but looking back they really were some of the greatest in-ring wrestlers ever(IMO). I appreciate their work and I think that's what WWE was aiming for. I mean when someone is giving a Eulogy at a funeral do they talk about the good things that the person has done throughout life or do they talk about the bad aspects? When John Doe dies his Eulogy won't say that he was an alcoholic or that he was lazy or that he was a criminal. No they will say John Doe was a great man and loved his family etc etc etc. It's just right to talk about the good and leave the bad alone in this case.

 

[poppycock]

It doesn't just happen in the WWE it happens in all walks of life as far as entertainment and celebrities go. If sombody dies who has been part of an industry be that the WWE, the music industry, the film industry, a sports person,etc... they get a certain amount of praise, respect and acknowledgement from their peers and company. I think that is only fair considering how much of their lives they have dedicated to their profession despite them making it big or not.