Piper's Pit

[Slyfox696]

Completely disagree. Going to use a very obvious case that everyone uses, but Hulk Hogan did more for wrestling as a face than Cena ever has and ever will, but they turned him heel for the sake of the product.

People keep bringing that up, but they are COMPLETELY different situations and they simply cannot be compared. For example, Hogan's drawing power clearly wasn't what it once was when he turned heel. Not true with Cena. Turning Hogan heel had a point, turning Cena heel does not. Hogan had a ready made heel character, with his leaving wrestling for acting, Cena does not.

There are more, but you get the point. The situations are completely different.

No he didn't. At all. Go rewatch it. He was definitely the quietest of all the names mentioned

I'm not sure what you were watching, but on my 60 inch television, and my elite level surround sound system, John Cena most definitely did not get the quietest pop. I'd say there is a much better argument to be made he got the best pop, than there is the worst.

Given what a positive reaction the Rock's been getting, I was really surprised to hear a noticable amount of boo's mixed in with the cheers too.

I wasn't. When Rock came back around Wrestlemania, there were people who took Cena's side. Furthermore, when Rock isn't directly competing with Cena, there is still some criticism about how he left after saying he never would, people saying he "sold out" (which is ridiculous, but whatever), a point which is constantly re-affirmed by Cena and the fact Rock is rarely there.

I wasn't at all surprised Rock got a noticeable amount of boos, I'm actually surprised he hasn't gotten more.

 

[D-Man]

I thought Piper's Pit was an EXCELLENT segment and the highlight of Raw last night.

WWE makes a habit of ignoring the obvious things that the audience sees and they don't wish to address. The whole "see no evil, hear no evil" thing just isn't working. Unfortunately for the WWE, their audience has become too smart for that garbage. Not to mention that the boos for John Cena have not only become an overwhelmingly collective emotion and (pretty much) the "cool" thing to do in the opinions of the majority of the live audience, but they're too loud to be ignored. So loud, in fact, that they're CLEARLY heard in live tapings and broadcasts of Raw, Smackdown, and PPV's. Therefore, it's about time that the WWE began to address the elephant in the room, so to speak, head-on.

This is where WWE continues to be smart with their storylines. They understand that it's a controversial issue and that it needs to be addressed in front of our faces (instead of in the secrecy of the WWE board room) so they used a controversial figure and platform to extract it... Roddy Piper and Piper's Pit. Not only was the segment effective to address the issue but Piper used his normal brilliance to extract the information from Cena.

Piper doesn't ever clearly distinguish himself as a babyface or a heel. He just goes for the jugular in his interviews and does what he can to get answers. This neutral personality keeps things interesting. Normally, in an interview, you rarely have a babyface interviewing another babyface or heel interviewing a heel. WWE normally has an opposite dynamic that draws the battle lines and allows us to understand where the story is going. But in last night's interview, there was no clear distinction. Result - We have no clue what will happen with Cena. As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't get much better than that.

 

[Shakin' Abe]

Good story on the Pit. Piper has always been the master of the story in wrestling. If Cena does do a heel turn, like many of you, I say it will come after the Rock beats him at WM. But I say the Rock cheats, the fans soak it up and that's what makes Cena turn. What better place then in the Rocks home town? Yea I know, Vince has tried to make Cena hated in a lot of the top stars home towns but this is WM!!!! I wasn't expecting too many boo's from the crowd just becuse of the love the moms and dads have for the Rowdy One!

 

[Trail_Blazin]

I'm not sure what you were watching, but on my 60 inch television, and my elite level surround sound system, John Cena most definitely did not get the quietest pop. I'd say there is a much better argument to be made he got the best pop, than there is the worst.

I'd say there was a huge crowd reaction. I guess if you define "pop" as boos and cheers I'd agree.

But he had the least cheers out of everyone.

 

[billm75]

I was at the show last night and from what I witnessed, he got one hell of a pop when he first came out, hardly any booing could be heard. Now, as the segment wore on and when he left the ring, he got more and more boos.

It's as if the crowd is trying to boo him because they're supposed to. I don't know though.

Either way, my guess would be that Cena's going to stay a good guy in conflict all the way up until the big match at WM. When the Rock gets all the love and Cena gets all the hate, it's going to simply have been the final straw so to speak and he'll go apeshit on the Rock to win.

Then he'll stay heel for a short run, before realizing the error of his ways. At least, that's my opinion.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Given what a positive reaction the Rock's been getting, I was really surprised to hear a noticable amount of boo's mixed in with the cheers too.

But that's what made the segment terrific: you've got three characters with whom the audience isn't quite sure which way to roll.

In Cena, you've got the biggest hero in the world of wrestling.....yet many, many folks can't stand him. At WM, he's opposing the Rock, who is a great hero from the past.....and how do you, as a fan, justify rooting for Rock's opponent? Yet, it's Cena, isn't it? What do you do?

Then there's the Rock. If he were facing Randy Orton or Mark Henry at WWE's biggest show, there would be no question whom the fans would root for, right? Instead, he's going after the biggest face in the business. Is everybody rooting for the Rock?..........hardly. Again, what do you do?

Add to all that Roddy Piper, the perfect catalyst for this particular RAW kick-off. Yes, lots of younger fans don't know who Piper is, but anyone who's been around awhile knows that Roddy is the good guy who comes off as a bad guy (except for those times he's the bad guy who comes off as a good guy). No one knew what he was going to do on stage with John Cena.....and sure enough, he praises him one minute.....and slaps him the next.

Then, you figure; if Cena attacks Piper after being slapped, then John surely turns bad right on the spot......or does he? It seemed as if the situation could explode.....yet in the end, nothing was determined, which is as it should be. It leaves the door open for all kinds of great swerves.

Yeah, many of you probably detested the whole thing, since that's how many wrestling fans react to anything new these days. But in my opinion, the segment was perfect......and a great example of how good WWE's Creative team really is.

 

[JackHardy97]

I thought pipers pit was really good on Raw with the way he slapped cena hoping for a comeback and actually wishing to be attacked by john. However, the fact cena didnt fight back makes me think that he might realise he needs to change in the future and eventually get a bit of an edge to himself and start fighting for himself in a different waty.

 

[WWEIsLife2]

I thought it was very well done and had a feeling this could be the beginning of a Cena Heel turn going into April 1st 2012. Piper did a great job being the one trying to get Cena to admit the Boos were getting to him. So it was good stuff and I can't wait to see where it goes from here.

 

[Ellye]

I actually can't wait for the next RAW to see where things go. WWE managed to make John Cena one of their most interesting characters right now, I'm really curious to how this will play out.

Also, Piper is amazing. I hope we see more of him.

 

[jungledeano]

Yeah, I thought it was a good opening segment too. Although the crowd didn't react all too well to it, in my opinion. But that's just me, I felt the people would have booed Cena harder when Piper promted them too. But again, that's just me. I also see this as a way of 'planting the way' for a heel-turn with Cena also. If they are going to go with a slow turn, culminating just after Royal Rumble, then I would love that, personally, and reckon that WWE would have booked it well. It would make a lot of sense also, as I think I saw a report not long ago about Vince wanting to really push CM Punk and his relationship with the audience so if correct, it would seem that they're gearing up CM Punk to take on the face role.

I can't find the link to that report, so you'll have to take my word for it

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

You know, I have always yearned to see a John Cena heel turn but now, when I am practically seeing it come, I do not really want Cena to turn heel. It's right now that his face character is really growing on me. Seeing the Piper's it segment, I finally got an answer to this question. Who is John Cena's biggest enemy? It's not Rock, Punk or Edge. It's John Cena.

Cena faces a great temptation every time he walks out into the arena. The temptation to tell the fans to stuff it in their ass. But Cena does not do that. He chooses in kayfabe to remain good and honest and that is a really hard thing to do. That is what the John Cena character is all about. In one word, restraint. And that is why I do not want him to turn heel before WrestleMania.

We all know Rock and Cena are contrasting characters but to see how contrasting they really are, you need to delve deeper. The Rock is no holds barred kind of guy. He reacts spontaneously and does not seem to regret his actions. Cena is restrained and always about doing what's right. You turn Cena heel now and you totally ruin that contrast. Cena would become almost like a Rock clone. It takes a bit away from their match, at least for me.

I do not know what else there is to say about the segment. Piper was infectiously energetic out there and still seems very passionate about the business. The crowd, as others have observed was not really anti Cena so the contrast between the reactions did not come off all that well. I liked the end of it though with Cena handing Piper back his ring.

Now, if I were booking it I'd have more and more legends come in every week and question whether the Cena we see on TV everyday is the real Cena. Cena would not respond to any of these allegations till we have a showdown with The Rock. Cena snaps back and tells him and all the legends that they are hypocrites and that while all of them keep saying that you should carve your own niche, they seem to be highly uncomfortable when someone(Cena) ends up doing so.

Moderator's Comment: This thread is NOT a "John Cena Turning Heel" thread. It is about Piper's Pit. Unless you're discussing the Piper's Pit segment from Raw, you will be warned/infracted for spamming!!

 

[Mr. Artistic guy]

I said only recently that I felt as if at some point Cena ought to turn heel, now it seems it may be coming far sooner than I had anticipated.

One route they could go with this is to have Cena vent all his frustrations on his haters like a volcano going off, just as it's been suggested he should by Piper. The difference is that he doesn't stop merely as getting all of it off his chest verbally, he goes far further than anybody thought he would, he shows how much those 'we hate Cena' chants have really bored a hole into him. Maybe he pops the 'we hate Cena' guy himself? Maybe he destroys him. Maybe, with his superhuman abilities he tears up half of the roster unrelentingly, like a successful attempt at what Miz is doing. I'm a little bit dissapointed in one respect if they do go this way and have him turn heel pre-mania, because I always envisioned that if he was going to turn in the foreseeable future, it would be in Miami against a guy who gets a bigger face reaction than himself in an epic WM Austin/Rock type of way. I think if they can keep this story on the cooker up until mania with the question burning at the back of people's minds, is Cena going to snap, and then have it happen during the event, it will have been a masterful piece of story writing and will set up the future of the WWE and it's direction going forward in the biggest way.

However, if they do go with the 'aggressive face' route and it works, then it may make the crowd reaction for him against The Rock far more even. If he can show people he's more than just the kids' hero and he's got a range then he'll engage a lot more of the older audience who he currently doesn't appeal to. It's interesting, because they could go either of these ways depending on the reaction he begins to get. That is, of course, depending they are actually going for this big character transition idea which people are more or less convinced across the board is going to happen.

Nevertheless, the segment worked. In his last couple of appearances, Piper has been red hot; pun not intended. It was a good way to kick off Raw, and the cliffhanger at the end with Cena just walking away really set up the question marks in everybody's minds. That's what you want as a script writer. You want people to spare a thought on the route the product is going after this. It's what makes people tune in next week. It's obviously worked here because of the overwhelming reaction to the segment, and because of the nature of the questions people are coming to ask so hats off.

 

[MikeyBobby]

The fans are split 50/50 on Cena and always will be. You turn him heel, all you do is reverse the rolls. The women & kids will hate him, but the cheers of the "vocal males" will drown them out.

We'll see how this plays out in the coming weeks, but I think the purpose of the Pit was to solidify Cena's current stance. He couldn't have been more clear: I'll always stand up for my fans and I don't care about the rest of you.

I think his character will gradually become a little darker & edgier, as it already has, but I don't see a full heel turn. I actually think a heel turn would diminish the Wrestlemania main event. Does anyone really want to see a cowardly heel Cena face the Rock? (Face it, WWE books it's heels as cowards that run from confrontation.) I can see Cena going in a Big Daddy Cool direction as in "I'll still slap your hand, but it better have a black glove on it." Cena staying faithful to his fans & his principals while totally defying his detractors would be fantastic if they really commit to it.

Anyway, I liked the Pit for what it was, no matter what it leads to. Vince has to be kicking himself. When he really needed boos for Cena he got one of the most positive reactions he's gotten in recent memory.

 

[GodlyTwins]

I think John Cena will be a heel by January 2, 2012. The person(s) debuting on that day will come out to HEEL John Cena during one of his promos and start a feud so that Cena will have a feud up to a month or 2 before WM28. It would be like when Chris Jericho debuted and interrupted The Rock (forgot if he was heel or not).

 

[ae_wrestler123]

I think they are trying to turn rock heel. They had miz truth endorsing him, Punk bashing him, And bringing the shit that he is not there all the time.

 

[GodlyTwins]

I think they are trying to turn rock heel. They had miz truth endorsing him, Punk bashing him, And bringing the shit that he is not there all the time.

The Rock can turn heel, but he is still going to be cheered by his hometown. Actually, WWE can't make Rock heel because he has done so much that everyone would still see him as The Great One.

 

[Dragonslayer]

I actually enjoyed Piper's Pit, though yes - the crowd reaction was really surprising somehow. I mean, there were still some "boos" to be heard, but a far greater portion than usual was pro-Cena.

But an interesting way to try and get Cena to snap by Piper... and holy crap, did Piper remind me A LOT of emperor Palpatine in the Star Wars series, encouraging Anakin Skywalker to finally "give in to the dark side"?! Haha that really struck me as funny.

In any case, a fun segment, even if it did not do that much... and to be honest, the whole setup of it seemed forced to me. Why would Piper come out now? What is the reason behind it? It just seemed a bit random. But on the other hand, you have to give credit to Hot Rod - even today, when surely quite a large part of the audience doesn't really know who he is/was anymore - still does an amazing job on the mic, and proves why he is considered one of the best mic workers of all time. If half the roster of today had half the charisma and mic talent that Roddy Piper still has, damn I'd say today's WWE product would be a lot more interesting to watch.

I'm still skeptical concerning a Cena heel turn... but I think I also agree that it should not be BEFORE Wrestlemania, but after the match, that Cena turns. A potentially ambiguous face vs face situation á la Warrior/Hogan at WM6 is more intriguing in this. If one character (Cena) is clearly the heel,the Miami crowd will of course react accordingly and boo him out of the building. This, they might do anyways - but it could work as the perfect catalyst for Cena's turn. If the turn happens after the end of Wrestlemania's main event, now THAT would make an impact. If you turn Cena months earlier at the Rumble or something, and he already goes into Mania as heel, I think it wouldn't have as much impact.

I think the face vs. face situation is more intriguing, cause if both characters are over enough (and Cena and Rock definitely both are), it makes for the most interesting matches. See the recent HBK vs Taker matches - you didn't want the Streak to end, but at the same time, you didn't want to see "Mr. Wrestlemania" lose at the grandest stage of them all, and be forced to end his career. THAT's big drama right there, and that's what WWE should be going for in this encounter between Rock and Cena - and not a regular, clear-cut heel vs. face situation, where the entire crowd CAN only pop for one guy, and doesn't even really have a choice.

 

[Dagger Dias]

This segment was very well done. Piper confronted Cena about the negative crowd reactions, hinting at how it must be getting to him. Cena's response of "Rising above the hate" was exactly what he needed to say. Everyone keeps whining about how Cena needs to turn heel, and him giving the middle finger to the fans as a result of frustration at the boo's might play a part in that. Here's the thing though. Cena is still the top face of WWE. He is the face of the federation. Rising above the hate is more than just a tshirt. It is a message Cena can send his fans as a role model. He is better than them and will not stoop to their level by letting it get to him. The segment was good and I have no complaints with it because both guys did a good job at what they needed to do. Raw needs more segments like this.