Pick your Randy: Orton or Savage

[George Michael]

When all is over, who will have had the more impressive WWE career? Will Orton's accomplishments surpass Savage's, or will Orton be overshadowed by Cena, much like Hulk did to Savage.

TALE OF THE TAPE

Wrestlemania Main Events

Savage 2, Orton 0

Orton still has a lengthy career ahead of him, but so does Edge, Cena, Hardy, Jericho, Triple H and a few others. He'll be battling for that spot on the card for years to come.

Title History

Savage

- One IC title run.
Duration: approx 13 months
An impressive run that culminated in a classic Mania match with Ricky Steamboat.

- Two WWE title runs
Duration of the first: approx 12 months
Duration of the second: approx 5 months
The first was run started and ended at Mania giving Savage top billing at back to back shows. The second began at Mania, but ended in a far less spectacular fashion.

Orton

- One IC title run.
Duration: approx 7 months
An impressive run (at the time, longest in six years) and has only been surpassed by Shelton Benjamin's run since.

- One HWC run, and two WWE title runs.
Duration of HWC run: approx one month
Duration of first WWE title run: approx a few minutes
Duration of second WWE title run: approx six and a half months
HWC title run started at SummerSlam, and ended at the next PPV. The two WWE title wins came on the same night, before he dropped the title at Backlash.

Analysis

Savage was thirty-six before he got his first Wrestlemania main event, and WWE title. Orton was twenty-four when he won his first heavyweight title, and is only twenty-eight now. If he only wrestled until he was thirty-six, he would still have eight years to top Savage's accomplishments.

Winner: Randy Orton

 

[IrishCanadian25]

What a clever thread idea...

In the here and now, you have to go with Randy Savage.

As far as Orton goes, I firmly believe that his WHC run, which came at the expense of Chris Benoit and set Orton up to be beaten by Triple H, occured only to put the title "Youngest World Champion" on Orton instead of having it on Lesnar. Since Brock, who had left the WWE on poor terms, had been the youngest champ at age 25, Orton at 24 was the only viable "he'll get there eventually anyway" guy on the roster at the time.

Savage, on the other hand, was a tremendous Intercontinental Champ before winning the WWF Title at WrestleMania 4 in impressive (though not quite Vader-esque, yes I am still bitter) fashion. He carried that belt for a full year, and is one of the few (if only) wrestlers who made a major turn from a top face to the top heel DURING a championship reign. Usually, the turn LEADS to the reign. And Savage pulled it off perfectly.

Savage's 2nd title reign with Flair was also fantastic, and you really felt he earned the belt. Now, maybe Savage working with Flair was a better situation for Macho Man, or maybe the booking was just stronger, but Savage was a man possessed at WrestleMania 8, and he and Flair put on a classic. Yes, losing the title in Hershey, PA by passing out to the Figure-4 was a little bit of a let-down loss, but I'll deal with that.

Orton, on the other hand, was among the weakest champions EVER in his WWE Reigns. His World Title reign occured to little fan fare, and lasted a very short time. And of course, his WWE Title reign (winning twice on the same night) made him come across as the weakest title winner in a LONG TIME, and served more to make Triple H look like the good guy. Result - FAIL!

In closing, you also mentioned that Randy has to deal with Triple H, Edge, Cena, Hardy, and Jericho in the coming years, and that may serve to hinder him. I disagree. Savage had to content with Hogan, Warrior, Flair, Roberts, Undertaker, and several others during his runs, and he benefited from it, because he had better guys around him. Orton will benefit from those listed - I just doubt he'll use it as perfectly as Savage did.

The question is in the feuds. I have called Savage "The Greatest Feud Participant in Wrestling History" on many occassions, and I stand by that fact. If Orton is able to hold long-term feuds with the Cenas and HHH's of the world, I'll be impressed.

 

[reddevil69]

Randy Orton is talented no doubt, but Savage was a major player and the face of the WWF as champion in Hogan's absence at a time when the title actually meant something...titles today are a part of the tv show, and the guy with the belt is not necessarily the guy carrying the load...CM Punk had the Heavyweight Title and he is not going to make or break the draw of the company, and neither is Jericho for that matter, despite him being the best all around performer on RAW the past 6 months, in my opinion...

A perfect example of this is the rumored Taker/HBK match at Mania...I highly doubt either of them will have a title belt going into that match and it'll still be bigger than any match on the card...when Savage was champ along with Hogan, and yes even Warrior, the champ always went last and the PPV was built around the Championship match....Savage made page 2 of my local newspaper and was on the 11 o'clock news when he won the title at WM4 and it wasn't even held in my city...that's how big wrestling was at the time and it was before Vince exposed the business....today you'd be lucky to find any mention of a wrestling event in a newspaper, not even the sports section....back then, even the casual observer knew who Savage and alot of the other wrestlers were....my Grandmother is 82 and she knows who the Macho Man is, just from reading the paper and watching the news...she has no clue who Randy Orton is.

I'm not debating the skills of either man, and Orton may have a long successful career, but he is just another WWE sports-entertainer, part of a product that is looked upon as just another form of entertainment in today's market....the passion, and suspension of reality that fueled fans 20 years ago and the mystique of the business being "real" are gone for good. Savage was on top when it was still a big deal to be the Champion, and therefore his career will have more meaning in the eyes of fans, and even casual observers who were around in the 80's...and if that includes all the people my age who were watching in the 6th grade, then there will be alot of us around for another 40 years or so....long enough to remember Savage and the rest.

 

[George Michael]

In the here and now, you have to go with Randy Savage.

It's true, but when all is over I still believe Orton will have had the more impressive career. If Orton's career were to end today however, it would be hands down Savage.

As far as Orton goes, I firmly believe that his WHC run, which came at the expense of Chris Benoit and set Orton up to be beaten by Triple H, occured only to put the title "Youngest World Champion" on Orton instead of having it on Lesnar. Since Brock, who had left the WWE on poor terms, had been the youngest champ at age 25, Orton at 24 was the only viable "he'll get there eventually anyway" guy on the roster at the time.

Agreed. It wasn't so much about the title, as it was about the title of 'Youngest world champion'. He brought that up in promos for years to come, and as a multi generational star he seen automatically 'more trustworthy' than Average Joe Hardy.

Savage, on the other hand, was a tremendous Intercontinental Champ before winning the WWF Title at WrestleMania 4 in impressive (though not quite Vader-esque, yes I am still bitter) fashion. He carried that belt for a full year, and is one of the few (if only) wrestlers who made a major turn from a top face to the top heel DURING a championship reign. Usually, the turn LEADS to the reign. And Savage pulled it off perfectly.

I would argue that Orton was not as great a champion as Savage, but was still one of the best IC champs in the past decade, in the way he got people talking about the belt. He made it look good.

On the other hand, Orton played a piss poor face after he turned in 04, but has since mastered his craft as a heel, so much so that the fans are starting to reward him with support (it's not like he's been kissing baby's). It took Triple H about six years to do this, and Orton has seemingly done it in about three. Whether that's a good or a bad thing is a matter of opinion.

Savage's 2nd title reign with Flair was also fantastic, and you really felt he earned the belt. Now, maybe Savage working with Flair was a better situation for Macho Man, or maybe the booking was just stronger, but Savage was a man possessed at WrestleMania 8, and he and Flair put on a classic. Yes, losing the title in Hershey, PA by passing out to the Figure-4 was a little bit of a let-down loss, but I'll deal with that.

I would argue that Orton's 'second' WWE title run mirror's the Savage/Flair run. Orton had spent three years on the undercard making a name through longer, more worthy programs (Undertaker, Rated RKO). The Triple H/Orton last man standing match is an unsung classic in my opinion.

Orton, on the other hand, was among the weakest champions EVER in his WWE Reigns. His World Title reign occured to little fan fare, and lasted a very short time. And of course, his WWE Title reign (winning twice on the same night) made him come across as the weakest title winner in a LONG TIME, and served more to make Triple H look like the good guy. Result - FAIL!

Agreed, but it had to happen. I believe the goal of Orton taking the title from Cena was to have him beat a superman. When Cena got injured, there was no superman to take it from, hence quickly putting over Triple H via a three match PPV performance. Shady yes, but it served it's purpose when Triple H lost with only one knee touching the floor. It's still a shame that the first title run counts.

In closing, you also mentioned that Randy has to deal with Triple H, Edge, Cena, Hardy, and Jericho in the coming years, and that may serve to hinder him. I disagree. Savage had to content with Hogan, Warrior, Flair, Roberts, Undertaker, and several others during his runs, and he benefited from it, because he had better guys around him. Orton will benefit from those listed - I just doubt he'll use it as perfectly as Savage did.

Short of injuries, it seems that Triple H, Edge, Cena and Jericho will always be in the title picture. Hogan had a stranglehold on the main event at the time, being the main source of competition. Warrior seemingly went into limbo after his title win, as far as being trusted to hold the title; not as much competition. The 'writing was on the wall' and Flair was on his way out around the time of his second WWE title run; also not much competition. Roberts never got a title run, and Taker was a cash grab rookie. I would argue that all Savage really had to worry about was Hulkamania. How Orton will grow and use those around him will still be determined, but so far he's done pretty well for himself.

The question is in the feuds. I have called Savage "The Greatest Feud Participant in Wrestling History" on many occassions, and I stand by that fact. If Orton is able to hold long-term feuds with the Cenas and HHH's of the world, I'll be impressed.

Indeed this is the question, and I will argue that by the end of Orton's career he will have usurped that title from Mr. Savage. My final analysis is based on the gamble that when Orton's career is done with WWE, it will be more impressive than Savage's.