Paul Heyman - Can ONLY manage main eventers?

[Steve-O-Matt]

Y'know I've been thinking about Paul Heyman and him managing Curtis Axel and Cesaro. Sure, initially at first it kind of worked, especially with Cesaro, but now I feel like it's not helping anyone. I'm not saying Paul isn't a great manager, rather, he should only be managing main eventers. Why? Because with Paul there doing all of the talking for his guys, it doesn't feel like Cesaro at the moment is making any progress.

When Cesaro broke off from Zeb, I thought "Finally, we can see what this guy is made of!" But he just went from one manager, who did all the talking for him, to another, that does all the talking for him. I ask you, other than the music and bedazzled jacket, what has changed about Cesaro breaking from the Real Americans? This should have been a time where he was on his own, where he had a chance to connect with the crowd and most of all practise his mic skills. We know he has them, we just need to see him use them!

I feel like Paul can only manage guys that are fully established, guys like Brock Lesnar, guys like Punk. It worked with them because with them, we know where we stood and Heyman was just the icing on the heel cake. Where as with his last 3 clients, Curtis Axel, Ryback and Cesaro, what has been their most memorable feuds? when was the last time one of their promos blew you away?

I don't know, what do you guys think?

1) How do you think Paul has been with these younger guys?
2) Does anything I've suggested make any sense?

 

[Steve-O-Matt]

This is of course if it all doesn't culminate in Cesaro fighting Lesnar, if that's the case then it's all worth it.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

I was thinking the other day, Heyman has managed a hell of a lot of guys who haven't needed a manager. He's also managed several guys who went on to do better things away from his leadership and even some guys who have gone on to do nothing of note. In conclusion, Heyman is hit and miss when it comes to elevating talent, but he's ridiculously entertaining so who really cares.

 

[kadroan]

Y'know I've been thinking about Paul Heyman and him managing Curtis Axel and Cesaro. Sure, initially at first it kind of worked, especially with Cesaro, but now I feel like it's not helping anyone. I'm not saying Paul isn't a great manager, rather, he should only be managing main eventers. Why? Because with Paul there doing all of the talking for his guys, it doesn't feel like Cesaro at the moment is making any progress.

When Cesaro broke off from Zeb, I thought "Finally, we can see what this guy is made of!" But he just went from one manager, who did all the talking for him, to another, that does all the talking for him. I ask you, other than the music and bedazzled jacket, what has changed about Cesaro breaking from the Real Americans? This should have been a time where he was on his own, where he had a chance to connect with the crowd and most of all practise his mic skills. We know he has them, we just need to see him use them!

I feel like Paul can only manage guys that are fully established, guys like Brock Lesnar, guys like Punk. It worked with them because with them, we know where we stood and Heyman was just the icing on the heel cake. Where as with his last 3 clients, Curtis Axel, Ryback and Cesaro, what has been their most memorable feuds? when was the last time one of their promos blew you away?

I don't know, what do you guys think?

1) How do you think Paul has been with these younger guys?
2) Does anything I've suggested make any sense?

You can't expect Heyman to do everything for Axel. Axel was given the tools to succeed. He got repackaged, beat Cena and HHH. Axel's downfall was his lack of charisma. Axel just didn't take advantage of the situation.

As far as Cesaro, it's still early but good to see they dropped the Swagger/Cesaro feud quickly, that wasn't going anywhere.

It would be interesting if they had Heyman turn on Cesaro and manage RVD. RVD is a Heyman guy.

 

[Jonyboyuk2]

The term "Paul Heyman guy" is because in the past 22 years or so; there have been wrasslers that VKM doesn't know how to use and who Heyman did know how to use, or wrestlers that were not over in WCW or WWF and went to ECW and got over because Heyman, as the ECW booker, booked them to highlight their strengths and hide their weaknesses. He also gave wrestlers chances to develop their mic skills too - see Steve Austin's ECW promos...

Fast forward to 2002 when Brock Lesnar debuted. He was a beast (and still is). But he was not mic skilled at the time so Heyman was put with him as his manager.

As the years rolled on and Heyman was writing the Smackdown and ECW shows sometimes; he would look to OVW and see who was potentially a star and he picked out CM Punk and Batista (alongside Jim Cornettes advice I believe though I may be wrong about Batista) and others. Punk acknowledged that Heyman was the guy who noticed him in the developments when he conducted his "pipe bomb" (but get it right - CM Punk was a hell of an indi wrestler and brilliant in ROH; especially against Samoa Joe).

Heyman is a heat magnet and he can produce the best promos in WWE bar none (now that punk has split).

I think that pairing Heyman with Ryback and Axel was a mistake. They both fit have different qualities - Axel is a solid safe worker and has a lot of respect from the boys in the back; even the Rock trained with him before his come backs. Axel failed because he was pushed too soon before he knew how to talk. And his current storylines have been dire.

Ryback is a big guy that everyone saw as a potential big star but his arrogance as a face turned him heel in real life (like it did with Batista in 2010).

Time will tell with Cesaro; but someone whose seen as a face working with the biggest heel manager in over 2 decades in the WWE? Strange.

The creative team has a lot to answer for for these failures.

 

[Rampage Bentley]

I think where the disconnect is, is how a "Paul Heyman Guy" is defined. When the term was first coined, it was meant as a guy who Paul Heyman saw something in while in a backstage role, not someone he necessarily managed. Steve Austin is known as a Paul Heyman Guy, yet Paul never accompanied Steve to the ring.

I don't believe Paul Heyman ever claimed to see something in Ryback. I wouldn't be surprised if he made no such proclaimation for Axel, either. Being a Heyman Guy has become a way to compare certain talent, indirectly, to guys like Punk, Austin, and Brock.

 

[OYDK]

As somebody mentioned above, Paul Heyman can't do everything for the young guys that he's paired with. He can bring them massive heat and he can give them a fresh start, but a wrestler can only hide behind a manager for so long before they're forced to step up and prove themselves. Paul Heyman generated interest in Curtis Axel and allowed Axel to indirectly feud with somebody like CM Punk for a good 3 months, however once fans realized Axel was pretty basic in the ring and generic on the mic, they turned on him. That's not Paul Heyman's fault. As for Ryback, his ship sailed way before that whole Punk angle and not even Paul Heyman could save him from his original heel turn flop.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Heyman isn't supposed to be doing anything for Cesaro now. We are in May. Heyman's alignment isn't supposed to mean anything until at the earliest the build for SummerSlam. Maybe he gets Cesaro a MitB win.

I don't think anyone expected Heyman to do anything for Ryback and Axel. He was mostly just there to help Punk.

Getting aligned with Heyman isn't just about declaring someone a bigger star, working against him is more about making someone a bigger.

 

[Meth Head]

Personally, I believe the problem lies with Heyman being bigger than his clients themselves. An A-list manager and former wrestling promoter famous for being the mouthpiece of Barockkk Lesnuuurrr and the creator of Eeee-Seee-Dubya is suddenly advocating for... Curtis Axel? Ryback? Cesaro? While I do think Heyman's talents can indeed be beneficial for these guys I can't help but feel his presence on-screen simply dwarfs theirs. *shrugs*

 

[THTRobtaylor]

No the issue is that now Brock has "conquered the streak" there is no achievement Paul can take anyone to that his actually bigger.

The "marquee" manager thing is not gonna work any longer for just one or two clients.

When he was in WCW Paul had a marquee cliend in Rude who was "that guy" and held the US title for SOOOO long that it was special and he was the defacto "best in WCW" as a result, but he also had a whole stable underneath that, guys like Austin in the same situation Cesaro is in now, Arn and Zybysko and Bobby where Rybaxel still could have been and Madusa in the mix too but few needed him to "get over" in that group cos they had their own strengths and "chops".

Heyman actually needed to be a stable manager again rather than this "my client" crap... Had it been Brock, Barrett, Cesaro and perhaps Rybaxel as well or at the outside The Usos if they went heel to get the belts, then it would have been a much better situation.

Sure Arn didn't "really" get over to the next level from the Alliance, but he was elevated to his proper level and could carry his end of the mic so having Heyman helped him... Same for Larry... Austin was on the way but got hurt and he went a different direction with Pillman which worked better...but he could carry a promo even then and had gotten "over" without Heyman but being in the Alliance made sense for him.

Rude never "needed" Heyman just as he never actually needed Heenan, but the manager on the outside who could talk as well as Rude complimented him well and it made him seem that much more of the "crown jewel" of a stable...

Today, WWE are simply pairing guys with Heyman and expecting him to get them over when in reality anyone who has ever done well off of working with Heyman could more than hold their own. The interplay just made them seem better. That's not happening for Brock or Cesaro the same as it did for Punk...cos Punk could cover his own end just fine without Paul... but he was the icing on the cake. Brock can't cover the mic and Cesaro clearly has a perceived weakness there. He'd actually be far better with Regal as a manager, but cos Heyman is seen as the "guy" on the mic now they just assume he can cover the multitude of deficiencies immediately...

Heyman can talk up anyone, but if they can't also talk themselves up or back it up on their own it has NEVER worked... it's why Bobby Eaton never got over from the Dangerous Alliance or Tommy Dreamer and Sandman never caught on outside of ECW...even going back to Eddie Gilbert, Eddie could do it without him. He can work great with a finished or near finished article... if they're still learning or can't learn then he's no good to them and that's including Brock.

 

[J~P]

Paul Heyman can do nothing but help your career. Just because he manages you doesn't mean you're becoming a main event star player. Only you can do that, but having Heyman next to your side can get you to that level if you have the ability. Quite honestly he's been put with people who just don't have that ability. Is it his fault? No because if you look at them having Heyman quite arguably was the most relevant times of their career.

As for Cesaro.. I think that man was ready to become a top baby face after Wrestlemania. We the audience pretty much turned him our own selves. But WWE saw a chance at Cesaro and Heyman being paired up, and they thought they could turn it into gold with Lesnar defeating Taker and ending the streak. Quite honestly I thought what a horrible idea.

Not because Heyman's not a good manager. I would put him in top three of all time for sure, and I've been watching for a very long time. It was just the simple fact that Heyman became one of the most hated people in WWE when Brock broke the streak. Cesaro became one of the biggest baby faces when he broke away from Zeb and Swagger and body slammed The Big Show over the top rope...

Bad timing on WWE's part, but still who knows where this is going. WWE could turn this back on us in month down the road and we'll realize oh shoot this was the best thing that ended up happening to Cesaro.

 

[chicagokmc]

I think that Paul Heyman is in some ways the Phil Jackson of the WWE. Those not fans of Phil Jackson always point out that he only took on coaching ops (Jordan Bulls, Shaq/Kobe Lakers) where the team was already put together to win and that he probably would not be able to take a an average team and develop them to be championship-level. I think you get the most out of Heyman's skills in such scenarios, and I use his most recent successes as my examples - Punk and Lesnar. His natural heat helped solidify these 2 as the number 1 heels in the WWE. When he had both both as heels at the same time, they were 1 and 2. Heyman is doing ok with Cesaro but I don't know if the mid card is the best use of Heyman. Can he take Cesaro up to the main event? Maybe, but as has already been pointed out there is more to it making a main eventer than the manager. I think Heyman can definitely make Cesaro the number 1 mid-carder, I just don't know if he goes much further than that given all the other main eventers in front of him. I just like it best when Heyman is around main eventers.