Paige and her PTO

[Heartbreak_Kid_707]

I need help with this one.Her PTO (Paige Tap Out) does look viciously painful. And it takes someone really flexible to do it too. BUT her doing it on the announcers table has absolutely zero effect in making it hurt worse. I can see it just as a statement, but their doing it for the pain and there is no reason it can. So why?

 

[Jeff Deliverer of Mail]

Ya, I was hoping for an actual Diva going through a table for once. Then she put a submission hold on..." Not on the table ! ". Oh no. Don't do it on the table..lol.

 

[stingray11214]

Ya, I was hoping for an actual Diva going through a table for once. Then she put a submission hold on..." Not on the table ! ". Oh no. Don't do it on the table..lol.

I was hoping the same thing. I was hoping for an old fashioned riot through the first few rows a la All Japan Women. Hell, that would have been fun.

 

[Aquaman6686]

I need help with this one.Her PTO (Paige Tap Out) does look viciously painful. And it takes someone really flexible to do it too. BUT her doing it on the announcers table has absolutely zero effect in making it hurt worse. I can see it just as a statement, but their doing it for the pain and there is no reason it can. So why?

Well obviously, doing a move on the table mystically increases it's strength the same way that:

1 - Lowering a singlet strap increases a wrestler's strength.

2 - Grabbing the ropes increases the strength of a submission hold.

3 - (My personal favorite) Hooking your opponent's leg makes your pin attempt more effective. (In reality a lateral press is a far more effective pin, and hooking the leg actually makes a pin LESS effective).

 

[MERPER]

Again, we're getting into fake wrestling world. So nothing makes sense.

In terms of pure talent, Paige is head and shoulders above Charlotte so when we cut through everything, having Paige lose in back-to-back nights and still not win the championship is a "Realistic" joke in the first place.

The only world in which Paige isn't as good as Charlotte and loses 2 matches is in WWE's world of awfulness.

 

[NSL]

The move is a great finisher, and it's nice to see it getting "showcased", but I don't see the point in doing it on a table. The only thing I can think of, is that they got to the table with the intention of going through it, and one or both backed out, and they changed it on the fly. I imagine it's been a long time, if ever, that either one has gone through a table, so I wouldn't blame them for changing it up, if that was the case.

 

[Un-Bo-Lievable Jeff]

Well obviously, doing a move on the table mystically increases it's strength the same way that:

1 - Lowering a singlet strap increases a wrestler's strength.

2 - Grabbing the ropes increases the strength of a submission hold.

3 - (My personal favorite) Hooking your opponent's leg makes your pin attempt more effective. (In reality a lateral press is a far more effective pin, and hooking the leg actually makes a pin LESS effective).

Hooking the leg during does make it more effective. By hooking the leg it stops them using the momentum of their legs to get their body off the mat. Look at the HBK kip up. Legs up first and the momentum of the legs coming down helps bring the body up. Same idea when being pinned

 

[MERPER]

The move is a great finisher, and it's nice to see it getting "showcased", but I don't see the point in doing it on a table. The only thing I can think of, is that they got to the table with the intention of going through it, and one or both backed out, and they changed it on the fly. I imagine it's been a long time, if ever, that either one has gone through a table, so I wouldn't blame them for changing it up, if that was the case.

If they changed it on the fly that would have been the ONLY move of the segment we didn't hear.

I know wrestlers talk plenty during a match, it's quite common now. But last night's RAW you could hear Paige loud and clear all match either saying what she was about to do or telling Charlotte what she should do.

 

[Heartbreak_Kid_707]

It wasn't just on raw. She done it to Charlotte last Monday on the table too. I think it was last week.b

It makes as much sense as them going into a lock up head lock right out of the gate when they should have ripped each other to shreds as much hate as they have for each other.

The PTO could be done on a water bad or a table and felt the same lol

 

[ShinChan]

I love this move and yeah this move is painful.... Also i agree that there is no further damage of doing PTO on a table but still they sell it like its way too painful because of table....
I would have been much happier if Paige did Rampaige instead of PTO on the table...

 

[NSL]

If they changed it on the fly that would have been the ONLY move of the segment we didn't hear.

I know wrestlers talk plenty during a match, it's quite common now. But last night's RAW you could hear Paige loud and clear all match either saying what she was about to do or telling Charlotte what she should do.

It could have been cancelled from someone in the back, and communicated to them via the ref, or one of the announcers, which would explain it not being heard. But, if it's been done on the table before, then I can't help but think it's a set up for something big. Paige is working Charlotte towards the table and everyone thinks "Here we go again", and then she slams her through it.

I am probably wrong, but...who knows?

 

[Aquaman6686]

Hooking the leg during does make it more effective. By hooking the leg it stops them using the momentum of their legs to get their body off the mat. Look at the HBK kip up. Legs up first and the momentum of the legs coming down helps bring the body up. Same idea when being pinned

Wrong. Hooking the leg is giving the person being pinned MORE momentum, because their leg is already in an upward position. Actual wrestlers will tell you this, and Lance Storm in specific wrote an entire article of how it doesn't make sense that "hooking the leg" magically means "more effective pin" in WWE. His article concisely explained how a lateral press pin is much more effective in legitimate wrestling but Vince is obsessed with the hooking of the leg because he feels it LOOKS more effective.

 

[Messiah]

First of all, its the fucking divas so nobody gives a shit besides you, and it's fake wrestling. It's not the first time they've done that. Kurt Angle has done the Ankle Lock on the announce table before, Crossface has been put on the announce table before ect.. but f course you complain now because it's the divas.

 

[Mustang Sally]

BUT her doing it on the announcers table has absolutely zero effect in making it hurt worse. I can see it just as a statement, but their doing it for the pain and there is no reason it can. So why?

Because it's different.....and in a form of entertainment in which just about everything that can be done has been done, it's good to see the company strive to do new things that might cause us to say: 'Well, there's something we haven't seen before.'

Then again, with the mindset of today's pro wrestling fans, it's "in" to disapprove of everything we see, so this new wrinkle introduced by Paige is bound to bring scorn rather than praise......and as you can see, that's what's happening.

 

[Un-Bo-Lievable Jeff]

Wrong. Hooking the leg is giving the person being pinned MORE momentum, because their leg is already in an upward position. Actual wrestlers will tell you this, and Lance Storm in specific wrote an entire article of how it doesn't make sense that "hooking the leg" magically means "more effective pin" in WWE. His article concisely explained how a lateral press pin is much more effective in legitimate wrestling but Vince is obsessed with the hooking of the leg because he feels it LOOKS more effective.

If the leg is hooked, the premise is that they can't move it. If they can't move it, then there is no momentum. So I'm not sure you know what momentum means.

Not going to disagree with Lance Storm. But being able to use your legs to propel your body seems easier than not being able to use your legs to propel your body.

 

[Un-Bo-Lievable Jeff]

Wrong. Hooking the leg is giving the person being pinned MORE momentum, because their leg is already in an upward position. Actual wrestlers will tell you this, and Lance Storm in specific wrote an entire article of how it doesn't make sense that "hooking the leg" magically means "more effective pin" in WWE. His article concisely explained how a lateral press pin is much more effective in legitimate wrestling but Vince is obsessed with the hooking of the leg because he feels it LOOKS more effective.

And just as an example, when Sting dropped hardy in a matter of seconds during the memorable TNA main event when Hardy was off his face, Sting hooked the legs to make sure Hardy couldn't kick out.

If a lateral press pin was more effective, why did he hook the legs?

 

[Aquaman6686]

And just as an example, when Sting dropped hardy in a matter of seconds during the memorable TNA main event when Hardy was off his face, Sting hooked the legs to make sure Hardy couldn't kick out.

If a lateral press pin was more effective, why did he hook the legs?

Probably out of instinct, since he's been trained for years to do it. Lance Storm, Ricky Steamboat, and Greg Valentine, amongst others, have stated that if the matches were legitimate, hooking the leg would be completely ineffective.

 

[Heartbreak_Kid_707]

Because it's different.....and in a form of entertainment in which just about everything that can be done has been done, it's good to see the company strive to do new things that might cause us to say: 'Well, there's something we haven't seen before.'

Then again, with the mindset of today's pro wrestling fans, it's "in" to disapprove of everything we see, so this new wrinkle introduced by Paige is bound to bring scorn rather than praise......and as you can see, that's what's happening.

I'm not saying its a bad thing. And I love a new wrinkle but it makes both Paige and Charlotte look incredibly stupid. And they both want to come off as submission specialists and for 2 women who use submission moves as their main way of winning looks lame and makes their character looks not on top of their game. You can't honestly tell me that there's one single person who sees her do it in the ring then sees her do it on the announcers table that's gonna say "oh wow that HAD to make it hurt worse!!"

They don't have to be a "today's pro wrestling fan". That's a slap in the face to every submission specialist, including their selves.

 

[Mustang Sally]

You can't honestly tell me that there's one single person who sees her do it in the ring then sees her do it on the announcers table that's gonna say "oh wow that HAD to make it hurt worse!!"

Yes, you're right. I just like that it was something new, especially for the women. After all, when men first started using the announcer's table to deliver punishment, they weren't using any maneuver they weren't already performing in the ring......a body slam or choke slam onto the ringside table is the same move they'd use in the ring, yet it was somehow more effective looking in a different setting, even when the table didn't collapse.

Now, here was Paige using her finisher in a brand new location. I liked it.

 

[Azane]

We can also make the argument that Tables actually break falls with their collapsing, outside of landing on something wrong like a monitor, going through a table is actually a softer landing than than hitting the ring.

They should have done a protected move through it if they really want to push this rivalry.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Yes, you're right. I just like that it was something new, especially for the women. After all, when men first started using the announcer's table to deliver punishment, they weren't using any maneuver they weren't already performing in the ring......a body slam or choke slam onto the ringside table is the same move they'd use in the ring, yet it was somehow more effective looking in a different setting, even when the table didn't collapse.

Now, here was Paige using her finisher in a brand new location. I liked it.

You lost me, Sally. The announcer's table is a substantially harder surface than the ring, thus a slam will look more effective on the table than in the ring. The setting has little, if anything, to do with it.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

I'm not saying its a bad thing. And I love a new wrinkle but it makes both Paige and Charlotte look incredibly stupid. And they both want to come off as submission specialists and for 2 women who use submission moves as their main way of winning looks lame and makes their character looks not on top of their game. You can't honestly tell me that there's one single person who sees her do it in the ring then sees her do it on the announcers table that's gonna say "oh wow that HAD to make it hurt worse!!"

They don't have to be a "today's pro wrestling fan". That's a slap in the face to every submission specialist, including their selves.

I love fans who overthink everything and forget that this is professional wrestling. If you wanted to go through a list of things that don't make sense in professional wrestling, I would applaud you, because that would be a very long list that you would have to put some serious effort in to.

Also, this was just another excuse for this guy to create another Paige thread. Troll for the win.

 

[Mustang Sally]

You lost me, Sally. The announcer's table is a substantially harder surface than the ring, thus a slam will look more effective on the table than in the ring. The setting has little, if anything, to do with it.

You're right, of course, Nate. I'm confusing kayfabe with reality because while the announcer's table is actually harder than the ring, the fantasy element of pro wrestling is geared to make us believe the ring surface has a lot less give than it really does. After all, when someone takes a back body drop in the ring, the victim writhes in pain the same as if he had been smashed into a metal table.....when, in fact, we all know the ring is a lot 'softer.'

In any case, Charlotte being caught in the PTO has no more impact when performed on the table than the ring since she isn't being slammed to the surface. All this reminds me of the time Kurt Angle was concussed because he was slammed into a table that was supposed to collapse, but didn't. Quite a difference from the ol' PTO.

My bad.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Well, I think it's done primarily to give a different sort of visual. Whenever someone is smacked into the announce table, put through it or what have you, it gives the impression of the physicality of the match being enhanced beyond the levels you'd typically see. Whenever the fans see a guy slammed into the table or put through it, they pop and the same goes for whenever someone hooks in a submission hold. Way back in the day when Triple H tore his quad for the first time, Chris Jericho applied the Walls of Jericho on Trips on top of the announce table and the fans were going nuts; Trips' quad was torn prior to being put in the hold, but went through with the planned spot as it just made things look all that more dramatic. Does it increase the strength of the hold? Of course not, certainly not anymore than grabbing hold of a rope for "additional leverage" made Ric Flair's Figure Four more lethal; it simply gives fans a different visual, it's essentially manipulating the fans through what's essentially a slight of hand trick in pro wrestling.

It's a great looking finisher, one that requires a good deal of physical strength on Paige's part as well as she's essentially holding most of the other woman's weight in a chicken wing while squatting down and maintaining the position.

 

[Navi]

I saw it more as "I'll do whatever I want, where I want". After all isn't Paige always screaming "This is my house", so if it's her house then she can do what she pleases in the ring or outside the ring. In other words no where you go is safe, she'll follow you and get you. That's what I took from it.