#OscarsSoWhite

[Alex]

So recently we've had #oscarssowhite trending the internet. It's talking about how black actors/directors have been snubbed from being nominated for an Oscar. Many people have come out in support of it (most notably Jada Pinkett Smith and Will Smith are boycotting the Oscars) and there have been some who have been against it saying it's just social justice warriors blowing things out of proportion.

Some people say there haven't been any Oscar worthy films starring black actors. However both Straight Outta Compton and Creed were critically acclaimed yet seem to have been left out of the nominations save for Sylvester Stallone (a white guy) being nominated for Best Supporting Actor for Creed even though Michael B. Jordan (the main star) and Ryan Coogler (the director) also did great jobs as well. Coogler and Jordan being left out of the nominations adds to the air of racism as both Coogler and Jordan are black.

I'm not going to jump on either bandwagon but I will say that there most likely an element of racism at the Academy (and other places in the film industry). People say if black actors get the roles then they'll get the parts. However that's a lot harder than it seems.

I'm reminded of a scene from Entourage where TI is talking to Ari Gold (note it's only the first 28 seconds)
[YOUTUBE]J7_CWnZY-II[/YOUTUBE]

Even though it's done in a jokey way it has a valid point. Unless you're Will Smith, Denzel Washington or a select few others roles for black actors are far more limited.


I'm not going to jump on either side as I feel both sides have valid points. However I will say that because Hollywood is run by (predominantly) old white men they will go for what they grew up with. Hence why there's still a gender pay gap (not just in Hollywood) and why lots of black actors will not get as many opportunities. It's also why films like Straight Outta Compton (a rap movie), The Dark Knight and other comic book movies won't get any recognition from the Academy because it's not what the people in charge feel is worthwhile. And ultimately I feel it's really the audience that's to blame really. If some members of the movie audience were more receptive to movies directed by/starring black people/women etc we'd have more diversity in regards to movies and actors/actresses/directors would be able to stand on just their capabilities and we wouldn't have this problem. Because ultimately it's all about money and if a movie is likely to make more money with a white actor than a black actor that's what the people in charge will go for. Because if the people in charge of the James Bond franchise felt they could make James Bond's entire profits over the past 50 years with a film starring Idris Elba they'd do it.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Statistical breakdowns have been put out that show relative to the percentage of the population they represent, black people are represented perfectly well in number of nominations and wins.


Another case were hashtags and actual stats are mortal enemies, a case which occurs with more and more frequency.



If this were about general racism and less opportunities for minorities in Hollywood, I would be on board with it, but to my knowledge, that's not how this has been positioned.

 

[Alex]

Oh I get it's been blown out of proportion somewhat but you have to admit there are certain elements of Hollywood that would benefit from more diversity.

There's far more films out there where the black guy is the best friend/sidekick than the main character. That's why the Black Panther movie is such a big deal as it's being done by a major studio and not an independent movie/small budgeted one.

 

[SSJPhenom]

NorCal has a point. If this were about general racism as it pertains to less opportunities for minority actors and actresses, they'd have more of a case and more people would be on board. To me (and I am a black man) this comes across as almost whiney. God forbid Straight Outta Compton and Creed were not nominated. I mean, they were great movies and the actors in them did great jobs, however, I honestly, with all objectivity, don't think they were Oscar worthy.

If it were 2016 and an African American actor or actress still hadn't won an Oscar to this point, the campaign would more than have merit. The fact, though, that to this point not only have several black actors and actresses been nominated for Oscars but have also won Oscars hurts this whole campaign.

So I say tough titty. No nominations this year, however, there's always next year.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

NorCal has a point. If this were about general racism as it pertains to less opportunities for minority actors and actresses, they'd have more of a case and more people would be on board. To me (and I am a black man) this comes across as almost whiney. God forbid Straight Outta Compton and Creed were not nominated. I mean, they were great movies and the actors in them did great jobs, however, I honestly, with all objectivity, don't think they were Oscar worthy.

If it were 2016 and an African American actor or actress still hadn't won an Oscar to this point, the campaign would more than have merit. The fact, though, that to this point not only have several black actors and actresses been nominated for Oscars but have also won Oscars hurts this whole campaign.

So I say tough titty. No nominations this year, however, there's always next year.

Its as if they expect some kind of diversity quota.


"Well these are good movies with black people in them, so they SHOULD be nominated, and they aren't, well then racism!!"....Meanwhile, plenty of movies with whites of Hispanics that were very good also did not get nominated.


True equality is when you don't expect charity nominations based on race, and don't proceed to throw a fit when you don't get them.

 

[Alex]

NorCal has a point. If this were about general racism as it pertains to less opportunities for minority actors and actresses, they'd have more of a case and more people would be on board. To me (and I am a black man) this comes across as almost whiney. God forbid Straight Outta Compton and Creed were not nominated. I mean, they were great movies and the actors in them did great jobs, however, I honestly, with all objectivity, don't think they were Oscar worthy.

Maybe my view is skewed because I haven't seen that many movies from last year (Straight Outta Compton and Creed were two of the few) but I felt regardless of race they should have been nominated because they were very good. Maybe I need to watch more of the nominations to get a better opinion.

True equality is when you don't expect charity nominations based on race, and don't proceed to throw a fit when you don't get them.

I don't think it's just race (although that plays a part). It's about very well done crafted movies getting their due. Straight Outta Compton is a good example because it's a well put together story of making something from crappy beginnings. But because it's seen as a rap movie it won't get a look in (similar to the Dark Knight years ago being seen as just a comic movie). As you said true equality is not expecting charity nominations (like Heath Ledger winning Best Supporting Actor for Dark Knight when he died)

 

[Coco]

I don't think it's just race (although that plays a part). It's about very well done crafted movies getting their due. Straight Outta Compton is a good example because it's a well put together story of making something from crappy beginnings. But because it's seen as a rap movie it won't get a look in (similar to the Dark Knight years ago being seen as just a comic movie).

Well you're talking about something completed different then, which is the general preferences of a voting body. Yes, Oscars tend to skew towards more pretentious fare, even when it's pandering. And yes, Straight Outta Compton probably isn't pretentious enough for them (I say "probably" because I haven't seen it). But that's not race. That's just taste.

Of course this seems to be the wrong year to make that case given how far outside the academy's wheelhouse Mad Max is and how many nominations that racked up. The nominations that film accumulated almost suggest they'll vote for something if a movie masterfully achieves what it sets out to do.

Mad Max's surge in recent months suggests that if Straight Outta deserved to be nominated, it would have. Nothing to do with race.

Not saying I'm convinced one way or the other. Merely reading some of the actual nominations as uncharacteristic.

[/devil's advocate]

Then again, nominating Bridge of Spies suggests the academy could do more to broaden its horizons. If this leads to more openness towards good work done by minorities, good. Fine. Progress. I don't think anyone is realistically suggesting quotas (certainly no serious people). Feels like a straw man.

 

[enviousdominous]

The Oscar Award is about recognizing great achievement in film, for more aspects of film making than I care to recognize. The Academy of Motion Pictures Arts and *ugh* Sciences doesn't have to explain why they snubbed potential nominees or why they passed out statues to certain people, but they were gracious enough to make changes based on points that were made through the hashtag in question. We have people who suspect racism, and a (94% white) group of people who vote regardless of any kind of standard of excellence.

When a fun new hashtag pops up, people jump on board because at the very least it's a fun excuse to dick around for a while. Maybe if you come up with the most witty and clever punchline for that new snazzy hashtag, then an army of Axe girls will force themselves on you.

According to this link the President of the AMPAS is bowing to pressure from that hashtag and intends to double the voting members of the Academy's population of women and minorities by 2020, so maybe by then there'll only be about an 80% majority of white male members.

I'm comforted in knowing that two sides of a conflict found a way to bridge the gap between them, even if it was through the use of a dorky hashtag. Things aren't perfect these days in regard to racism or sexism, but clearly there's progress being made.

 

[Alex]

Just found this article in regards to representation of people of South East Asian descent. It touches on the Oscar thing but it kind of says the point I was trying to say in my first post a bit better than I did

http://thequietus.com/articles/19606-south-asian-diversity-oscars-racism

 

[enviousdominous]

Straight Outta Compton probably isn't pretentious enough for them (I say "probably" because I haven't seen it). But that's not race. That's just taste.

It should be noted that Straight Outta Compton was nominated for an Academy Award for the category of writing. Everyone involved with the writing of Straight Outta Compton is white though, so yeah.

 

[Kodo Sawaki]

12-13% of America is African- American. 10% of Oscars did go to African- Americans. So its not like they are exluded. Will Smiths no talented wife who is mad that Will Smith isnt nominated again(and Will Smith has 2 nominations) and Spike Lee who is racist from other side are not even worth mentioning.

Should Academy broad their horizons? Yeah, its ridiculous that some movies like Mad Max or even The Martian be nominated in so many categories and both are pretty mediocre movies. But cant see that having Will Smith or Michael Jordan nominated will have so much impact on quality except they would take less heat and Will Smiths wife will less bitch about it.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Most of the movies I've seen this year are geared toward children but despite that and the fact that I consider myself very socially liberal, this is pretty embarassing.

This is a nothing issue and a waste of time and effort. It basically negates any legitimate objective black nominations for the next few years if not longer. It makes me feel bad for those that suffer from legitimate discrimination. It makes it more likely that I and others will turn a blind eye in the future to discrimination.

If Will Smith is being discriminated against it is probably because Disney does not want to upset their NFL overlords.


Is liberal on liberal crime a thing?

 

[Reflection]

12-13% of America is African- American. 10% of Oscars did go to African- Americans. So its not like they are exluded.

I wonder what would happen if the NBA too went with the 12-13% representation, instead of going by talent. I think the point that is being made, is that many people had a very good year in their respective fields (acting, direction, writing, choreography, whatever it might be)... However, there is no logical explanation why these people did not get nominated, despite their performance... other than because they have a particular skin colour. It has nothing to do with giving a certain % of representation to particular community; it's about rewarding people for their work, which doesn't seem to have happened in this case.

 

[jmt225]

I just don't know what "black" movies or actors deserved to be nominated for any Oscars.

I mean, Creed was awesome but if Rocky 4 didn't win any Academy Awards, then Creed sure as hell doesn't deserve any.

Concussion was the worst piece of dogshit I've seen in the last 3 to 8 years (except for maybe True Story starring Jonah Hill, which was worse than watching TNA's Gauntlet For The Gold).

Straight Out of Compton was right up there with any Zach Braff movie in terms of how absolute shit and awful it was.

Bear in mind my favorite actor is Denzel Washington and my favorite actress is Ryan Phillippe before you try to throw some racial prejudice bullshit my way, although Amistad is maybe the worst movie I've ever seen behind Spiderman 3 that I could barely sit through 5 minutes of.

But I don't know man, maybe the guy from the new Star Trek Force Awakens movie should have been nominated. I haven't seen that movie yet.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Is it possible they got snubbed not because of race but because there were performers and movies that were just simply better this year?

Concussions good but not nearly as good as The Revenant, The Hateful 8, Star Wars, Mad Max, ect.

BTW I don't recall The Hateful 8 or Star Wars getting a nod either this year.

Michael B. Jordan and Will Smith did good in their roles but was it as good as Tom Hardy, Leo, Michael Fassbender, ect. I certainly don't think so.

My point is there have been times when African Americans and other races dominated the Oscars, think back to 2002 when Denzel won Best actor and Halle won Best Actress, and Sidney Poitier won the lifetime achievement award. Think back a few years ago when an unknown Chiwetelu Ejiofor got a Best Actor nod for his role in 12 years a slave, or the girl from Precious.

No one should ever get a nod due to their race and people like Jada Pinkett Smith are more detrimental to equality of race than they are helpful because they always pull this race card bullshit when they just can't admit as good as some African Americans were in their role there was just a bunch of white boys and girls that simply did a better job this year.

Another thing to remember is that Oscar nominations are often very selective. There have been plenty times in the past where the best actor/actress, best director, or even best picture nominations go to people and films that are more artsy, the nominations don't necessarily go to who was the best. There are alo of times where the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences have been rather snobbish in their nominations, it's always been that way.

In my eyes The Martian can't touch The Hateful Eight but it's more along the lines of what the academy is looking for so it gets the nod when it really shouldn't. What I'm looking for in a movie isn't necessarily what they are looking for and just because your movie, actor, or actress didn't get the nod doesn't mean they weren't deserving of one, it just means it's not what the snobs at the Academy are looking for.

But when it comes down to it for people to think nominations are based on skin color shows a lot of ignorance on their part.

To put this in wrestling terms WWE has never had a WWE champion that was 100% of African descent (WHC yes but not a WWE Champion). Does that make WWE discriminatory against people of African descent? Not at all but maybe it was simply because there was always a better guy to put it on who wasn't. JYD was probably the most popular African American WWE ever had but does that mean he deserved that title more than Hogan? Did Ahmed or Mark Henry deserve it over Bret, HBK and Austin? Did Booker T and Lashley deserve it more than Cena, Lesnar or Angle? In all cases I would say fuck no, they were good but they weren't the best option either.

Unlike the WWE though African Americans have gotten Best Actor, Best Actress, Best Director, ect. so in my eyes they have don't really have a leg to stand on here.

 

[Con T.]

Man, I've really been trying to come with a nuanced sort of look into this issue, because this really does need one. There's something that makes me want to oppose many of the viewpoints in the thread. And to be honest, I don't disagree, by and large, with posts like JMT's and NorCal's (that isn't to call you out, it's more you two are the most notable posters). They are very much correct, when it comes to looking at the breakdown of in front of the camera, it works out pretty well. I agree with everything NorCal and JMT (and all) are saying.

Where I'm less willing to come aboard is the idea that us, a predominantly white (I'm assuming a gold majority of us are white) people are telling blacks how to feel about their perceived discrimination. That's where I think my visceral disagreement to the whole premise of this being a non-issue comes to play. We're telling black people that they're perceived racism isn't racism, and to get over it.

Now, is it actual racism? I don't think so. But I also know if I was placed in a position of minimal power, it'd be really hard to tell me that the slight against has nothing to do with an institutionalized system that skews more towards white actors/producers.

Yes, blacks are getting their share of screen portrayal in film (Hispanics aren't though, by a long shot. If anyone should be feeling marginalized by film, it is Hispanics). But what's in front of the camera is only a marginal portion of film. You also have production companies, studios, and executives. Of these executives, most are white, by a vast majority. Most of the people actually in charge of the stuff you see is white and male; even if the product you see is starring a black lead, it also tends to come from the perspective of a white dude. Why do you think Empire comes off so...well, shitty?

Now, what I'm hoping OscarsSoWhite hopes to point out is that we have a culture in which black actors are asked to act as black characters, from the perspective of (usually) white guys. That, my friends, is a cause where if you wanted to boycott, you should. if you want to assert that the Academy is largely white, and that impacts the voting process, I wouldn't argue it. Unless, of course, you want to argue that a white man over 60 can connect with a film like Straight Outta Compton. But this disingenuous stand by Jada and Will comes off just as that; you have Will and Jada grandstanding, during a year where Will just got snubbed for what accounted for as Oscar bait. You have Spike Lee, who hasn't been relevant in about twenty years, kicking up a storm. And the thing is, there is some legitimacy to the issue of OscarsSoWhite. At the least, you could address the issue of how white the world is Hollywood is, behind the camera. But because of this self important grandstanding, we're now going to categorize this as sour grapes. And I don't think you'd be wrong in calling it sour grapes, either.

 

[harrythem]

I'd say, here especially, people aren't telling black people to get over their opinion it's racism, they're generally of the view that the films that people claim black actors, actresses, directors etc should have got a nomination for have been, on the whole, worse than the white people (or hispanicy director of the revenant) have put out this year. It's mainly nothing to do with racism but more a level of talent! Hell I'm surprised there wasn't a big uproar that Eddie Redmayne is a hetrosexual white guy up for an award rather than an actual trans actress as I'm sure (but can't be arsed to look it up right now) there were some trans girls who were in films and were rather good, but not as good as he was.

Peeps gets mad and they have every right to do so, I just don't think it's as big a "thing" as the media have made it, and certainly hope it doesn't lead to people getting nominations next year because of their ethnicity rather than their talent (and I still have no idea how Slumdog Millionaire got so many nominations or wins)

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Its as if they expect some kind of diversity quota.


"Well these are good movies with black people in them, so they SHOULD be nominated, and they aren't, well then racism!!"....Meanwhile, plenty of movies with whites of Hispanics that were very good also did not get nominated.


True equality is when you don't expect charity nominations based on race, and don't proceed to throw a fit when you don't get them.

This pretty much sums up my feelings on the subject. It just seems that all this stuff surrounding the Academy Awards is just the latest in which EVERYTHING seems to be a racial injustice towards African Americans. While it's not exactly PC, the first thing that popped into my mind was "it's almost like they want affirmative action for industry awards now." I'm socially pretty damn liberal, but this is a perfect example of how ridiculous things are getting.

Norcal also alluded to how all the harping is being done by African Americans, yet the same protesters aren't harping about the lack of Asian or Latino nominees.

I get and agree with the fact that there are legitimate racial issues that have to be resolved in society, genuine injustices that are out there, but I simply don't see this as one of them and I think it's an example of trivializing those issues by stretching the term racism to the point of absurdity. Frankly, just because you happen to be African American, work in the film industry and are attached to a film that generates a lot of buzz doesn't automatically equate to major award nominations and the same goes for film industry employees of any skin color.

In about three weeks or so, the film "Race" hits theaters. Race is a biopic on Olympian great Jesse Owens and, just in case you don't know who he was, Owens was an African American Track & Field athlete who won four Olympic gold medals at the 1936 Summer Olympics in Berlin, Germany. Just because it's a biopic about one of the great athletes of all time, who happened to be African American, does that mean we're all supposed to shout praise and glory on it? Are we supposed to declare it the best film of the year and are we supposed to boycott the awards next year if it doesn't get a whole bunch of nominations?

 

[Con T.]

I think what we have here is failure to communicate.

I think we have an issue where we're interpreting all of the OscarsSoWhite "movement" (fuck I hate that) as outright saying blacks aren't voted into the oscars just because they're black. I don't think anyone is saying. Fuck, this is what Don Cheadle (who we all know as our residential poster, Blade) said:

"I don’t think there’s some cabal of white people sitting in a room trying to make sure that blacks Mexicans and Asians and women and gays don’t get a shot,”

You may get some crazies that would say that. But I don't think the argument is, "we're being segregated because we're black". The reasonable members of this (and I know, movement on Twitter, there is no such thing as reasonable) would say that for the reasons I linked to, that the audience judging their work isn't representative of diversity. And with 94% of the Academy being white, and 42% being over 60, I don't think it's that arguable that there's a disconnect between the Academy and the black community. There also seems to be a disconnect between the men (and women) behind the scenes that actually work to create the film. There are so many elements beyond the actor that make up a movie, and probably the most important element, film producers, are disproportionately white and old.

 

[wrestlingfan]

This pretty much sums up my feelings on the subject. It just seems that all this stuff surrounding the Academy Awards is just the latest in which EVERYTHING seems to be a racial injustice towards African Americans. While it's not exactly PC, the first thing that popped into my mind was "it's almost like they want affirmative action for industry awards now." I'm socially pretty damn liberal, but this is a perfect example of how ridiculous things are getting.

Norcal also alluded to how all the harping is being done by African Americans, yet the same protesters aren't harping about the lack of Asian or Latino nominees.

I get and agree with the fact that there are legitimate racial issues that have to be resolved in society, genuine injustices that are out there, but I simply don't see this as one of them and I think it's an example of trivializing those issues by stretching the term racism to the point of absurdity. Frankly, just because you happen to be African American, work in the film industry and are attached to a film that generates a lot of buzz doesn't automatically equate to major award nominations and the same goes for film industry employees of any skin color.

In about three weeks or so, the film "Race" hits theaters. Race is a biopic on Olympian great Jesse Owens and, just in case you don't know who he was, Owens was an African American Track & Field athlete who won four Olympic gold medals at the 1936 Summer Olympics in Berlin, Germany. Just because it's a biopic about one of the great athletes of all time, who happened to be African American, does that mean we're all supposed to shout praise and glory on it? Are we supposed to declare it the best film of the year and are we supposed to boycott the awards next year if it doesn't get a whole bunch of nominations?

Exactly. As a black man, I'm getting the cliche from a lot white posters on here who use the typical "whites are making up racism", and even using a comparison for affirmative action as if AA isn't necessary.

And are people really using Denzel and Halle Berry winning as examples? Denzel played a crooked cop and Halle was the love interest of a white man. Even when black people do win Oscars its in denigrating roles.

I don't understand why blacks have to go to great lengths to prove racism. We're never given the benefit of the doubt as if there weren't black movies not worthy of being nominated.