Orndorff instead of Roma as Horsemen

[wrestler36]

I know traditionally, the Horsemen were known to have one young upstart in the group, but I was just thinking how Orndorff could have been a perfect person to put in the horsemen during that early 90s era. Seemed like him and Anderson would make a fantastic tag team. Obviously he had the wrestling acumen, feuding with Flair in the early 80s, Hogan, etc. Had the right, brash attitude and the chiseled physique. At the time, he was wrestling for the TV and tag belts so I don't think he would overshadow Flair (if that's possible). What do you think? Would Orndorff had made a good horseman at the time? Heck, he would have been perfect in the 80s, but I just mean the early 90s

 

[The Brain]

So here's a sad story. I saw the title and thought Hey I think I did a thread on Paul Orndoff as a Horsemen not long ago. So I do a search and come to find that I did in fact create a similar thread....in 2010. And I also did a thread about Roma and the Horsemen in 2012. Time flies.

Anyway, yes I think Paul Orndorff would have made a very good Horsemen. He had the look and had the attitude. I could definitely picture him getting out of a helicopter with Ric Flair or sitting at a blackjack table with Arn Anderson. He definitely would have been perfect in the 80s but I could see him getting that spot in the early 90s too. He would have fit better than Roma although I actually did enjoy Orndorff and Roma's partnership in 1994. Roma and Orndorff were good together. Orndorff and the Horsemen would have been good together. Roma and the Horsemen...not so much.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

True, the Horsemen have generally always been made up of at least one young upstart, some promising young guy with tons of potential. The problem was that Paul Roma wasn't really a young upstart, nor was he someone that fans saw having a ton of potential. He may have started out that way once upon a time, but that's not ultimately how fans would wind up seeing him circa 1993.

Paul Roma's wrestling career began in 1985, he had a tremendous look and a lot of all around athletic ability. In no time, he was signed to a deal in WWF. He & Jim Powers formed The Young Stallions and they got pushed for a while, though I think one reason why the team didn't go far is because Powers & Roma didn't get along. Another reason, allegedly, is that Roma already had a huge ego and wasn't shy about letting anyone know it. He hadn't paid any dues, yet, reportedly, thought he warranted some sort of special treatment.

By the time he popped up at Slamboree in 1993, Roma was no longer this hot, up & comer that may have had potential. He was someone that had just turned 33 years of age slightly more than a month earlier and he was just someone who'd spent 6 years in WWF as a jobber. If WCW wanted some young upstart to fill in a role as part of the Horsemen, maybe they should've tried making a serious play in approaching someone like Shawn Michaels or used someone already signed to the company at the time like "Stunning" Steve Austin.

I don't necessarily think Orndorff would have been a particularly great choice, but he certainly had more star power and was a bigger star than Roma had ever been. However, by 1993, Orndorff was really past his prime. He was still in great shape and could still go, but he was pretty close to age 44 by the time Roma was revealed as the newest Horseman. Even though he was a bigger star than Roma, Orndorff wasn't really someone that would've made an impact. Orndorff's biggest days as a star were well behind him as his feud against Hulk Hogan took place during the mid 80s.

 

[wwesux]

I think Orndorff would have been an excellent choice rather than that awful tagteam of Pretty Wonderful with Paul Roma that Orndorff carried Paul Roma on his back for years cause he was awful . Orndorff could have feuded with Ric Flair afterwards and be placed as # 1 heel after Luger and SID

 

[THTRobtaylor]

No way... not in a MILLION years was Orndorff right for the Horsemen... that 4th spot needed, as Jack mentioned a "kid" and there was no better person at that time than the "kid no one saw ever being a Horseman"... Dustin Rhodes...

Dustin had some success in WCW and was US champ, but imagine him in that Roma role in 93.. Flair returning and he gets the "coup of the century", the Horsemans biggest enemies son into their ranks... cue "Duthty" wringing his handth on TV "Duthtin... I can't believe you would do thith to meh..." and Dusty having to set his own group up to combat them, perhaps even "doing a deal with the devil" in the Dangerous Alliance or some other faction...

Would have been a damn sight more interesting than PAUL FING ROMA... EVEN NOW I WANT TO DO A PATRICK STEWART RANT..I MEAN JESU... ok... got control of it, but you get my meaning...

 

[FlairFan2003]

Orndorff would have been great in that role in the 80s but they already had Luger & Barry Whyndam in succession and Im not sure Orndorff would have been better than them, especially Whyndam who was in his prime and one of the Top 5 In ring performers anywhere in either NWA or WWE. He was awesome.

In the early 90s Orndorff would have fit OK too, as another poster said there was like an unwritten rule that the 4th H-men had to be an up and comer, like Luger or Sid, even though Whyndam was an established main eventer when he joined taking a spot that once belonged to Ole Anderson at the end of his legendary career. I think that idea of the 4th spot going to someone "up and coming" really wasn't engraved in stone. Roma, with a 10 year career mostly as a mid card attraction and occasional jobber, didn't have the look of Luger or Sid coming in and hadn't had near the career Whyndam had when he joined, or Orndorff to that point for that matter. If they wanted a rising star to pare with Flair & Arn in 1993 it should have been Austin. Plus, unlike Roma, Austin cared about his craft and wanted to look good, never heard any stories about how Austin left an opponent in the ring waiting for him while he finished up a locker room card game!

Save for Austin, who I think was the best choice, Orndorff was very good, maybe based on the roster back then the 2nd best choice. He was light years ahead of Roma!

 

[The Dark Warlords]

I think he would have fit in greatly with them. The Way that he carried himself, and came up in the business would have been a perfect fit for the group. Also i believe that because of his real respect for wrestling, The others, mainly Flair and Anderson, would have brought him into the fold better, and he would have been respected more by them.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

The whole "up and comer" needing to be the 4th Horseman...

honestly I don't believe that was by design at all. It's just how things happened to work out a majority of the time.

(Ric, Ole, Tully, Arn) - I guess Arn's the young up and comer here, but bear in mind, the Horsemen kinda just fell together, in large part because JCP happened to put these guys out at the same time on TV to save interview time

(Ric, Tully, Arn, Lex) - Luger's definitely the young up and comer here. He was a very hot property at that time, and it made sense to put him with the top heel group in the company

(Ric, Tully, Arn, Barry) - I'd have a hard time calling Windham a young up and comer when he joined the Horsemen. He'd probably been going for at least a decade by that point, and was at the top of his game.

(Ric, Arn, Ole, Sting) - By nature of his previous feuds with the Horsemen, Sting was established here. Plus, originally it was supposed to be Tully.

(Ric, Arn, Ole, Sid) - Young up and comer

(Ric, Arn, Ole, Roma) - Again, it was supposed to be Tully at first, and Roma wasn't a young up and comer. He was the WWF job guy who literally got the position because he'd been in the WWF

(Ric, Arn, Pillman, Benoit) - Pillman was pretty established by this point, but Benoit wasn't (at least in North America). Young up and comer


Anyways... you get the point. It wasn't really an unwritten rule, by design or anything. Sometimes that's just how it worked out.

So would Orndorff fit in with the Horsemen? Abso-fucking-lutely! Especially during the period where they had Roma instead. If Jim Herd got excited about getting his hands on Roma... how would he have felt about Orndorff, who could actually draw money!

By this point in his career, Orndorff was definitely past his prime. He was never really the same after his arm surgery, but he still had a great look, a ton of talent, great psychology and charisma. Three more things than Roma had (guess which was the one they shared?)

Orndorff was actually the first guy who made people believe that Hogan could lose the title. He was one of the names that the NWA booking committee would throw around when it came time to talk about who should be their new champion. I don't know how serious they ever were about Orndorff (this would have been early 80's), but he was at least in the discussion, which not many guys could ever say. His look, his demenour, the fact that he didn't use an obvious gimmick name, how he worked... it all fit.

Pretty Wonderful was a solid tag team in the mid 90's for WCW (credit Orndorff for that)... but a run as a Horseman would have been a more fitting final chapter to Mr. #1derful's career.

 

[FlairFan2003]

Orndorff wouldn't have been bad, he had name recognition and was still capable of wrestling well (he actually wrestled Flair in several WCW Title matches after Starrcade 93). I never understood Roma, he didn't have Orndorff's name recognition, he was never an A-List performer, and he didn't exactly come off as having great potential. His epic failure in the group was one of the least surprising stories in wrestling.

At this point WCW was pushing The Horsemen as faces to oppose Vader and Austin/Pillman. Austin was a great choice, he fit perfectly alongside Flair & Arn but he was much better as a heel. Pillman as a heel was very creative, as a face he was boring. Some guys play both roles well, some don't, Pillman def was a better heel.

Sid was a face at this time, and he had history with The Horsemen in 1990 and with Flair in WWE in 1992. He would have fit and made sense. Of course, all other things happening as they did, that wouldn't have lasted long (Arn vs Sid in the knife & scissors fight).

I think if they would have brought Austin in, maybe teased desension between him & Pillman for awhile, along with Flair appearing as a "mentor" type role in vignettes alongside Austin backstage trying to "help him along" might have worked in getting Austin (who had worked pretty steady as top level heel since he arrived in 1991) over with the audience as a face. Austin & Arn as a tag team would have been great, Pillman could have grabbed Regal or another heel to form a rival team and they could haave had a great run.

The Dustin Rhodes idea is interesting. Since The Horsemen were clearly faces at this point, with Vader, Austin/Pillman, & Regal all working as villains, Dustin would have fit in that sense, plus you could have teased tension with Dusty, having him onscreen basically warning Flair would he would do to him if he betrayed his son. The Horsemen did have a history of eating their young and their old, kicking Ole, Luger, & Sting to the curb in violent fashion. Technically, Luger left on his own but the parting wasn't friendly by any means.

 

[TDFG]

Either one of Rhodes & Orndorff would have been both good choices, both could have teamed with Roma/Anderson or have been pushed along to the US Title.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

True, the Horsemen have generally always been made up of at least one young upstart, some promising young guy with tons of potential. The problem was that Paul Roma wasn't really a young upstart, nor was he someone that fans saw having a ton of potential. He may have started out that way once upon a time, but that's not ultimately how fans would wind up seeing him circa 1993.

Paul Roma's wrestling career began in 1985, he had a tremendous look and a lot of all around athletic ability. In no time, he was signed to a deal in WWF. He & Jim Powers formed The Young Stallions and they got pushed for a while, though I think one reason why the team didn't go far is because Powers & Roma didn't get along. Another reason, allegedly, is that Roma already had a huge ego and wasn't shy about letting anyone know it. He hadn't paid any dues, yet, reportedly, thought he warranted some sort of special treatment.

By the time he popped up at Slamboree in 1993, Roma was no longer this hot, up & comer that may have had potential. He was someone that had just turned 33 years of age slightly more than a month earlier and he was just someone who'd spent 6 years in WWF as a jobber. If WCW wanted some young upstart to fill in a role as part of the Horsemen, maybe they should've tried making a serious play in approaching someone like Shawn Michaels or used someone already signed to the company at the time like "Stunning" Steve Austin.

I don't necessarily think Orndorff would have been a particularly great choice, but he certainly had more star power and was a bigger star than Roma had ever been. However, by 1993, Orndorff was really past his prime. He was still in great shape and could still go, but he was pretty close to age 44 by the time Roma was revealed as the newest Horseman. Even though he was a bigger star than Roma, Orndorff wasn't really someone that would've made an impact. Orndorff's biggest days as a star were well behind him as his feud against Hulk Hogan took place during the mid 80s.

There was also Roma's brief stint as one half of Power and Glory with Hercules Hernandez. And that team sucked, too.

To be honest, Orndorff would have been fine as a member of the Horsemen, but an even better choice would have been Dustin Rhodes. Think of the storylines... playing off of Dustin turning on his dad, Dusty after the American Dream feuded with those guys for ages. The sheer heartbreak of a dad seeing his son making such a rash decision would have resonated with the fans and helped Dusty create some sort of ally that he could help get pushed to a decent spot on the roster.

Another thing that has to be said - anyone could have been a better choice than Paul Roma. He stuck out like a sore thumb and didn't have the look or pedigree to be in that group and it showed. Orndorff, Rhodes... hell even PN News would have been a better choice than Roma.

Another interesting sidebar is Kevin Nash... why not have Nash be the big man in their group after Sid left?

Either way, Roma sucked, so anyone would have been better than him as a member of the Horsemen.

 

[justtxyank]

The Horsemen have not always been made up a group consisting of a young upstart. The original incarnation of Ole, Arn, Tully and Flair were four established workers. The closest to young stud with loads of potential would have been Arn Anderson, who was already teaming with Ole in a strong tag team.

The gimmick was that this is the best group of 4 wrestlers on the planet and they knew it and acted like it.

Paul Orndorff would have been a great Horsemen instead of Paul Roma. The issue with Orndorff wasn't his age, it was his physical condition. He was a ticking clock and you didn't really know how much longer you were going to get out him.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

The Horsemen have not always been made up a group consisting of a young upstart. The original incarnation of Ole, Arn, Tully and Flair were four established workers. The closest to young stud with loads of potential would have been Arn Anderson, who was already teaming with Ole in a strong tag team.

The gimmick was that this is the best group of 4 wrestlers on the planet and they knew it and acted like it.

Paul Orndorff would have been a great Horsemen instead of Paul Roma. The issue with Orndorff wasn't his age, it was his physical condition. He was a ticking clock and you didn't really know how much longer you were going to get out him.

Arn was pretty green back then... probably less than four years in the wrestling scene when he joined with the Horsemen. It could be said that Arn was the first 'blue chipper' to join their ranks as the others (Ole, Flair, and Tully) were established main event caliber wrestlers before coming together. AA was merely in the upper mid-card in Alabama and Tennessee territories before joining Crockett promotions.

That being said, I still say Dustin Rhodes was a great choice besides Roma. Hell, Marcus Bagwell or Z-Man would have been better than Roma.