Originality Means Shit In Pro Wrestling

[ABMorales787]

It seems like its a recurring complaint from many fans here. How unoriginal something is in pro wrestling. I for one, don't give a shit if something is unoriginal. TNA, WWE, any company. Storylines are not trademarked. They aren't written in a novel with a TM mark in the end of it. I see a lot of people raving at the succes of The Nexus. Believe me, I do too. I am loving it so far. However this has been done before. The aspect of a group of unemployed wrestlers forcing their way onto the roster has been done. The Alliance and the original incarnation of the NWO did it before them. But it doesn't take away from them. The Straight Edge Society. A powerhungry leader who preaches to the world what he feels and manipulates his disciples to do his biding. It's been done. And CM Punk was a part of one of those incarnations. The Gathering of TNA fame. And before that was The Flock from WCW. That does not change my liking for the SES stable. Lay-Cool. The team of Michelle McCool and Layla El. The are 2 pretty girls who believe themselves to be the epitome of beauty and nobody is above them. They hold 2 titles as well. It's no mystery that they are a blatant imitation of TNA's Beautiful People. I couldn't care less. Why? WWE's Women's Division needs serious depth. And if they feel that using an idea that is still being used elsewhere will help them re-establish the division, so be it. In pro wrestling, originalily should not be a concern. Because somewhere, somehow, its been done. The cheating girlfriend, the jealous brother, the backstabbing tag team partner, the corrupt boss, the supergroup, it's been done before. Your enjoyment should not be swayed by the fact that somebody came before him and did it first. It should be about who did it best. Randy Orton vs Triple H again you say? is it better than last time? Nope, ah well. TNA creating an ECW faction? They're old. Yeah, but the other guys they feud with aren't. The point here is that whether TNA is getting the ECW guys together or WWE is ripping off the BP, the fact the it's been done before doesn't matter. What matters is the execution. Is Lay-Cool bringing interest to the Smackdown Divas? Yeah. Is the ECW faction putting over the young guys? No clue, it hasn't started yet. No sense in looking for the bulls other ass, because it doesn't have another one. Originality means jack in pro wrestling bottomline.

 

[Hawkeye]

I completely agree with you Riaku.I wouldn't mind if something new came about,but this late in the game you're gonna be pretty hard pressed to find a new niche in wrestling.I honestly don't look for originality in wrestling,I looked to be entertained.If it's the same concept but with new people and just one tiny twist to it,I won't know the difference and think it's some all new shit.With The Nexus I thought to myself since they were rookies from NXT I was like "Aw this some fresh ass shit!" but really it's just a yellow NWO.

 

[shattered dreams]

You nailed it Riaku. If it is entertaining who cares where it came from. Like most misinterpreted ideas unfortunately TNA takes an unfair share of the flack from fans not understanding this simple concept. There is some great effort to find reasons that have nothing to do with how entertaining something is to hate on TNA. I just do not get it. Yet, for WWE people focus first on if they liked it and only as an afterthought think about these outside factors like re-hash, age etc. I have pretty much never watched a segment obsessing about age, or if I have seen it before, more than what is going on. I have a hard time believing this is how people really watch wrestling. If it is not, then why do they spend so much time pretending they do? If it is, I truly feel sorry for them because there is no way that could be remotely enjoyable. Maybe the problem is many watch wwe for enjoyment and tna as a critic. Thus leading to unbalanced analysis.

 

[thenextbigthing]

Maybe the problem is many watch wwe for enjoyment and tna as a critic. Thus leading to unbalanced analysis.

Many do not watch WWE for enjoyment and TNA as a critic. The IWC watches WWE for enjoyment and TNA as a critic. TNA is a blooming organization. Of course they are going to be looked at with a critical eye. Same goes for business. In the technological generation we live in brand new devices are looked at with a critical eye as well. The Droid doesn't sell like the i Phone does. Why? Not because the Droid isn't better, but because the i Phone has been around longer. The i Phone has already proven itself to the public. Droid hasn't.

TNA hasn't done anything to stand out to the public as a major player yet. Hulk Hogan made the WWF stand out. Steve Austin and The Rock made the WWF stand out. John Cena and Randy Orton, arguably duplicate rehashes of Hogan and Austin (i.e; Milk, Prayers, Vitamins/Hustle, Loyalty, Respect - Stunner/RKO, Tweener Status) make the WWF stand out.

I don't mean to knock TNA. I enjoy the professionals they put on their programming every week, whether it's due to their previous exposure in previously existing or currently operating companies or their limitless talent despite their limited exposure (as far as ratings and years are concerned) in TNA. I do not however enjoy the product as a whole due to their stunt in growth in the eyes of the public.

Originality means jack in pro wrestling bottomline.

Once again, originality means jack in pro wrestling to the IWC, NOT to the public. Just like TNA isn't sky rocketing in ratings, neither is the E. The Nexus angle is a rehash of the original nWo and the Alliance, yes. It shakes things up with it's fresh performers and it's exposure of stables, not seen in the WWE for some time, yet it has been seen before. Have Raw ratings sky rocketed? No. Hogan as the supreme hero was something new to the public. Austin as the anti-hero was something fresh and new to the public. These are the gimmicks that made professional wrestling as an industry boom. The original DX was the original nWo with different performers and on a different channel. May I remind you DX is remembered because it was around while Austin was informing the public of professional wrestling. DX didn't gain ratings. Austin, WWE's original, yet simple formula, did.

In all honesty, the best thing TNA could have done in my opinion would have been keeping the six sided ring. I hated it too, but it was something new to the public. They'd seen it before in MMA, but they hadn't seen it in professional wrestling. With Hogan's medial influence, it could have been the needed boost to make TNA stand out in the public's eye.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Bra-fucking-vo, Riaku. Bra-fucking-vo. Damn shame I rep you so much already – won't let me give you any for this post that most certainly deserves it, so I hope others are doing it for you where I can't.

The problem here is that the IWC are primarily composed of know-it-all ********s who can't accept anything as acceptable, because the job of the IWC is to complain – if there's nothing to complain about, they have no job – or a reason to exist. So when something is done well, they will resort to incredibly low and irrelevant tactics like pointing out that it's "not original", or that some particular aspect of it "could have been better", when obviously it's not original, and obviously it could have been better. It's why I refer to them as the IBC – Incessant Bitching Crew – instead of the IWC, since IBC suits them so much more.

 

[shattered dreams]

I don't mean to knock TNA. I enjoy the professionals they put on their programming every week, whether it's due to their previous exposure in previously existing or currently operating companies or their limitless talent despite their limited exposure (as far as ratings and years are concerned) in TNA. I do not however enjoy the product as a whole due to their stunt in growth in the eyes of the public.

I just do not understand this. Are you saying the reason you do not enjoy TNA, even though you do enjoy it, is that others do not like it as much yet? I could care less about "the public eye" when I form opinions about my personal taste. If you are saying a critical examination shows they still have work to do to climb in the ratings that might fall under the obvious category. However, this is not a fair reason to say you do not enjoy the product as a whole. How many great movies or tv shows had insignificant audiences compared to obviously inferior products. I know I still enjoyed them the same as I would have if they garnered a summer blockbuster or friends sized audience. Maybe that is just me.

Once again, originality means jack in pro wrestling to the IWC, NOT to the public. Just like TNA isn't sky rocketing in ratings, neither is the E. The Nexus angle is a rehash of the original nWo and the Alliance, yes. It shakes things up with it's fresh performers and it's exposure of stables, not seen in the WWE for some time, yet it has been seen before. Have Raw ratings sky rocketed? No. Hogan as the supreme hero was something new to the public. Austin as the anti-hero was something fresh and new to the public. These are the gimmicks that made professional wrestling as an industry boom. The original DX was the original nWo with different performers and on a different channel. May I remind you DX is remembered because it was around while Austin was informing the public of professional wrestling. DX didn't gain ratings. Austin, WWE's original, yet simple formula, did.

I agree with your first comment about IWC vs public but I think you have this one flipped. "Originality" does not mean anything to the public but it seems to be an obsession of the IWC. Which is kind of odd when you think they would seem likely to be more aware than the average fan that basically everything has been done. I just do not think the casual fan cares about anything beyond if they are entertained by what is on the screen or not. These IBC peeps clearly obsess about much more than that.

It's why I refer to them as the IBC – Incessant Bitching Crew – instead of the IWC, since IBC suits them so much more.

These chronically unhappy individuals are really quite annoying, although they do make some good root beer.

 

[Dave]

It seems like its a recurring complaint from many fans here. How unoriginal something is in pro wrestling. I for one, don't give a shit if something is unoriginal. TNA, WWE, any company. Storylines are not trademarked. They aren't written in a novel with a TM mark in the end of it. I see a lot of people raving at the succes of The Nexus. Believe me, I do too. I am loving it so far. However this has been done before. The aspect of a group of unemployed wrestlers forcing their way onto the roster has been done. The Alliance and the original incarnation of the NWO did it before them. But it doesn't take away from them. The Straight Edge Society. A powerhungry leader who preaches to the world what he feels and manipulates his disciples to do his biding. It's been done. And CM Punk was a part of one of those incarnations. The Gathering of TNA fame. And before that was The Flock from WCW. That does not change my liking for the SES stable. Lay-Cool. The team of Michelle McCool and Layla El. The are 2 pretty girls who believe themselves to be the epitome of beauty and nobody is above them. They hold 2 titles as well. It's no mystery that they are a blatant imitation of TNA's Beautiful People. I couldn't care less. Why? WWE's Women's Division needs serious depth. And if they feel that using an idea that is still being used elsewhere will help them re-establish the division, so be it. In pro wrestling, originalily should not be a concern. Because somewhere, somehow, its been done. The cheating girlfriend, the jealous brother, the backstabbing tag team partner, the corrupt boss, the supergroup, it's been done before. Your enjoyment should not be swayed by the fact that somebody came before him and did it first. It should be about who did it best. Randy Orton vs Triple H again you say? is it better than last time? Nope, ah well. TNA creating an ECW faction? They're old. Yeah, but the other guys they feud with aren't. The point here is that whether TNA is getting the ECW guys together or WWE is ripping off the BP, the fact the it's been done before doesn't matter. What matters is the execution. Is Lay-Cool bringing interest to the Smackdown Divas? Yeah. Is the ECW faction putting over the young guys? No clue, it hasn't started yet. No sense in looking for the bulls other ass, because it doesn't have another one. Originality means jack in pro wrestling bottomline.

Jesus, dude! Learn how to break stuff into paragraphs.

All I see here is sniping and trying to defend TNA for taking on older guys and trying to rehash something that has been done to the death with ECW. Now, don’t get me wrong, I would be doing the exact same thing if I were in your shoes but to suggest that originality means “jack shit” is just ridiculous. To me, it is a desperate plea for people to stop looking at TNA with the same biased view that they generally have. They see TNA taking on older generations of wrestlers and they get this picture, perhaps somewhat unfairly, that it is basically a retirement home for wrestlers. Now, whether that is what you were trying to do or not irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that originality still has a great place in wrestling promotions.

Let me put it to you like this. You rent a movie. You then watch the movie and right after that, you watch the same movie with a different cast. Of course, it may be better acted the second time around but it is still the same movie. All of the enjoyment that you get from the movie the first time, as the story unfolds is taken away the second time because you know what is going to happen. Now, what you are implying with this concept is that you are quite happy to see the same thing over and over again with different people involved. Now, as a wrestling fan, I am not happy with that. Predictability is what is killing the wrestling business. People see something unfolding that they have seen multiple times before and they decide to skip a episode until it is over. At the end of the day, people don’t want to pay their money when they have seen everything before.

However, don’t get me wrong, I do see your point. Of course everything has been done before in some way or another but is this any excuse to give up on the concept of originality. Shouldn’t the wrestling promotions be concerned that people have seen the same thing over and over and shouldn’t this lead them to want to strive for more angles and gimmicks that have not been seen before? You can be happy with the status quo all you like but as a wrestling fan, I always demand a good product and for wrestling promotions to rest on their laurels and just expect people to tune into the same old shit, doesn’t cut it for me. As long as I am a fan, I will expect to be entertained and originality is a part of that. It goes back to the movie metaphor I used earlier. As long as I am watching movies, I don’t want to see the same one twice, even if it involves different people.

It’s your prerogative but please know that you are wrong.

 

[shattered dreams]

Jesus, dude! Learn how to break stuff into paragraphs.

All I see here is sniping and trying to defend TNA for taking on older guys and trying to rehash something that has been done to the death with ECW.

Jesus dude learn how to read. To take his great post and trivialize it to defending TNA is a joke. He immediately makes it clear and continues supporting throughout his thoughts about all of wrestling. Saying all he is talking about is ecw and tna is like saying the declaration of independence is an excuse to drink tea.

You do realize the movies example is a poor one because that is one of the least likely genres to start with an original thought nowadays. Whether it be based on a book, a movie in the past, a "true" story etc. I mean look at the big movies lately. Toy story 3, continuation of something started a long time ago with same characters, Karate kid re-make of movie that was made in the mid 80s, twilight, based on book.

 

[ABMorales787]

Jesus, dude! Learn how to break stuff into paragraphs.

Sorry.

All I see here is sniping and trying to defend TNA for taking on older guys and trying to rehash something that has been done to the death with ECW.

Yes. And the fact that Lay-Coll rips off The Beautiful People. The fact that The Nexus is a re-hash of The Alliance in one end and a re-hash of The Corporate Ministry in another. There is also the fact that people claim Randy Orton is a Stone Cold rip-off and John Cena is a Hulk Hogan rip-off. Seriously, don't let the sig and faction affiliation fool you, if it were to defend TNA, this thread would be in the TNA section.

Now, don’t get me wrong, I would be doing the exact same thing if I were in your shoes but to suggest that originality means “jack shit” is just ridiculous. To me, it is a desperate plea for people to stop looking at TNA with the same biased view that they generally have. They see TNA taking on older generations of wrestlers and they get this picture, perhaps somewhat unfairly, that it is basically a retirement home for wrestlers.

Because WWF and WCW didn't do it to each other during the Monday Night Wars? Have I mentioned anybody's age at any moment in this thread? Kindly direct me to it if you don't mind. I'm talking about storylines and overall gimmicks, Dave. I'm not talking about Sting's age, The Undertaker's age, Kevin Nash's age or the fact that these guys still headline events.

Now, whether that is what you were trying to do or not irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that originality still has a great place in wrestling promotions.

And extremely rare appearances as well.

Let me put it to you like this. You rent a movie. You then watch the movie and right after that, you watch the same movie with a different cast. Of course, it may be better acted the second time around but it is still the same movie. All of the enjoyment that you get from the movie the first time, as the story unfolds is taken away the second time because you know what is going to happen. Now, what you are implying with this concept is that you are quite happy to see the same thing over and over again with different people involved. Now, as a wrestling fan, I am not happy with that. Predictability is what is killing the wrestling business. People see something unfolding that they have seen multiple times before and they decide to skip a episode until it is over. At the end of the day, people don’t want to pay their money when they have seen everything before.

I don't know if you've seen the new Karate Kid movie, but it is not the same as the original. Even so this a terrible example. I'll reply to your movie's with music. The Misfits released "Die Die My Darling" in 1984 (Glen Danzig actually). It was a pretty good song. However it never reached true popularity until Metallica covered it in 1998 for their Garage Inc. all-covers album. The original was surpassed by the carbon copy. Similar cases with Whiskey In The Jar, Blitzkrieg and Stone Cold Crazy.

Another example. Fast food. Burgers. A Kid's Meal. First coined by McDonald's (I'm not really sure here). Now everybody does them. Why? Because it is a surefire marketing maneuver. Just like Lay-Cool. They are working with a formula that TNA used to the point of establishing a working women's division.

However, don’t get me wrong, I do see your point. Of course everything has been done before in some way or another but is this any excuse to give up on the concept of originality. Shouldn’t the wrestling promotions be concerned that people have seen the same thing over and over and shouldn’t this lead them to want to strive for more angles and gimmicks that have not been seen before? You can be happy with the status quo all you like but as a wrestling fan, I always demand a good product and for wrestling promotions to rest on their laurels and just expect people to tune into the same old shit, doesn’t cut it for me. As long as I am a fan, I will expect to be entertained and originality is a part of that. It goes back to the movie metaphor I used earlier. As long as I am watching movies, I don’t want to see the same one twice, even if it involves different people.

Times change. That never fails. So does wrestling. It's PG now, but in due time, it will have no choice but to mature and start using their edgier programming all over again. Then you'll see guys defy authority all over again. Men will flip fingers, women will flip tops. It's inevitable. Soon enough, you'll see The Uso's break up and feud with each other. Same case with the Hart Dynasty. People will look for who has the talent, and ignore the fact that a broken tag team over jealousy has been done for a long time. I'm not saying I wouldn't mind seeing jealous brothers square off every PPV, I hate it when people bitch about something not being original. It's not a viable criteria to evaluate pro wrestling and people lean to that excuse far too often.

It’s your prerogative but please know that you are wrong.

No. I know I'm right. Its evident. Everything is inspired by something else.