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Opinion on Vince Russo. Has it changed?

Has your opinion on Vince Russo changed recently?

  • Yes it has changed

  • No it has not changed

  • I Never had an opinion on him in the first place


Results are only viewable after voting.

Shadowmancer

I am The Last Baron
If you listen to the Steve Austin show you would know that Vince Russo has had a two part interview on there. The question is if you have listened to it, has your opinion on him changed in any way?

Having listened to parts 1 and 2 of Vince Russo's interview on the Steve Austin show, my opinion on him has shifted more towards the positive.
 
Nah, a creative mind no doubt but he remains in complete denial of his negative impact on wrestling.

Part of me also thinks that he still doesn't not get a large part of the business.
 
The problem with Russo retrospectively is that he seems so nice. He rarely has bad things to say about others that he worked with and he doesn't seem totally jaded. But I suspect he was very very different when he was booking at the height of his power. He let his ego dominate WCW in it's dying days and shot on everybody, and it seems like he's trying to diminish the negative image of him by being a goody now.

As for him as a writer; I've always found credence in his style. He was creative and he tried to make new things a regular occurrence, totally going over and beyond anything done before, with massively hit-and-miss repercussions. But this meant often sacrificing sense or quality, an unforgivable ideology. I've always thought a combination of his above-and-beyond creativity, Heyman's inspirational give everyone a chance and one-of-the-boys mentality, and the straightforward old-school booking sense of a Jim Ross would make the quintessential booker. As it is, he was a guy that had too much power and abused it. I've thought that for quite a while.
 
He's done and said a lot of stupid crap over the years. But he's not actually stupid. Just... naiive, I guess?
 
I have the same opinion of now as I did in 2000: He's the single worst thing that ever happened to wrestling. We're still dealing with his garbage legacy to this day.
 
He's not without his faults and has done some dumb shit in the past but on average he seems like a nice guy.

That pretty much applies to everyone in the industry, shock horror.
 
7judybagwell.jpg
 
^ Never Forget.


While I do appreciate those that think outside the box & want to bring something new to the table, Russo is a prime example of why checks\balances are a good thing. Many of Russo's ideas should never have made it to television. Being a nice guy does not erase the fact he is part of some of the worst moments in wrestling.


While it is hard to gauge what fans will like or dislike, there are clearly some ideas that really should never make it off paper. Example?


arquette.jpg
 
Its like Samuel Shaw becoming a good guy recently. You know that sooner or later, he will be going back to being the way that he was. Some things just don't change.
I'm sure that the offer of truce towards Jim Cornette was also a part of this supposed nature-change that he is going through. Enjoy it while it lasts, Smarkamaniacs.
 
I liked a lot of his stuff in WWE but he was awful in WCW. I love the Attitude Era though, and Russo himself seems like an ok guy.


Are you sure you loved his WWE stuff? I mean he had a storyline of Undertaker forgetting he was Mark Calaway and started to believe he was The Undertaker.

And Vince McMahon begging the cops that while wrestling was fake, he was calling for real.

His obsession with having pregnancies go wrong for some reason (PMS-D'Lo Brown).

Sammy and Mark Henry.

Beaver Cleavage. Chaz. Having a cup of coffee.

If you weren't Rock, Austin, HHH or Foley he pretty much ran wild with crap.
 
"Crash TV" programming a la Jerry Springer.

The endless search for the lowest common denominator of taste.

Hotshot booking.

So many storylines running at the same time you need an abacus to keep track of them.

Story lines that go absolutely nowhere (probably from having so many storylines going on Russo would lose track of them).

Three minute matches ('Cuz why do you need wrestling on a wrestling show?)......leading to two hour wrestling shows with maybe thirty minutes of actual wresting in them if that.

Devalued titles ("Titles are just props"). Ties in with the hotshot booking.

Telling the audience constantly "hey this is fake" courtesy of his "worked shoots"......Nice way to let the audience suspend disbelief.

ect.

ect.

ect.

The Attitude era was great because of Austin and the Rock, not because of Russo's programming.
 
Austin without russo was horrible, just watch 2001 raw. the thing i like about russo is he is HONEST. you dont see cornette admitting that some of his ideas didnt work. jim is bitter not only because russo took his job, but because russo then took wwf to heights it will NEVER see again. WCW was horrible before russo, horrible after russo, same with tna, but when he had full creative control it was the best time in wwf history. Corporate rock, mr mcmahon, the ministry, dx, so many great things happened under russo and ferrara.
 
Austin without russo was horrible, just watch 2001 raw. the thing i like about russo is he is HONEST. you dont see cornette admitting that some of his ideas didnt work. jim is bitter not only because russo took his job, but because russo then took wwf to heights it will NEVER see again. WCW was horrible before russo, horrible after russo, same with tna, but when he had full creative control it was the best time in wwf history. Corporate rock, mr mcmahon, the ministry, dx, so many great things happened under russo and ferrara.

I'd offer you some KoolAid but I see you're already drinking it. Sorry Pal, but Russo did NOT make Austin and if he or anybody else is claiming that then they're the biggest bullshit artists to ever come down the pike. Austin sucked in 2001 because they turned him heel not because he didn't have Russo feeding him bullshit scripts.

And btw, WCW was just fine in '96-'97 ie before Russo.
 
Austin without russo was horrible, just watch 2001 raw. the thing i like about russo is he is HONEST. you dont see cornette admitting that some of his ideas didnt work. jim is bitter not only because russo took his job, but because russo then took wwf to heights it will NEVER see again. WCW was horrible before russo, horrible after russo, same with tna, but when he had full creative control it was the best time in wwf history. Corporate rock, mr mcmahon, the ministry, dx, so many great things happened under russo and ferrara.

The Ministry of Darkness sucked. Saying it sucked is actually being nice.

You do know that Russo was not the sole reason for wrestling becoming incredibly popular right?

1999 product wise was on of the worst years ever for the WWE. It only started improving during the very end of the year, coincidentally when Russo left.

WCW was horrid before Russo. It was horrific during Russo. Russo may have made it suck more.

So when is Russo going to admit having people plead to Undertaker to remember that his name is Mark and he is not actually The Undertaker, might have been a horrible idea. Or the multiple pregnant storylines he liked to do? Sammy the transvestite. Higher Power. Chaz/Beaver Cleavage. I can do this all day.
 
I'd offer you some KoolAid but I see you're already drinking it. Sorry Pal, but Russo did NOT make Austin and if he or anybody else is claiming that then they're the biggest bullshit artists to ever come down the pike. Austin sucked in 2001 because they turned him heel not because he didn't have Russo feeding him bullshit scripts.

And btw, WCW was just fine in '96-'97 ie before Russo.

if it wasnt for russo we wouldve never had the beer truck, austin crushing mcmahons car witht the monster truck, the cement etc, austin himself confirms all this. yes austin was good but without russo writing for the character we get shit like 2001 heel austin. the proof is in the pudding so to speak. with russo we got those classic moments, without russo we got the worst time in austins career

The Ministry of Darkness sucked. Saying it sucked is actually being nice.

You do know that Russo was not the sole reason for wrestling becoming incredibly popular right?

1999 product wise was on of the worst years ever for the WWE. It only started improving during the very end of the year, coincidentally when Russo left.

WCW was horrid before Russo. It was horrific during Russo. Russo may have made it suck more.

So when is Russo going to admit having people plead to Undertaker to remember that his name is Mark and he is not actually The Undertaker, might have been a horrible idea. Or the multiple pregnant storylines he liked to do? Sammy the transvestite. Higher Power. Chaz/Beaver Cleavage. I can do this all day.
the worst year? just because you didnt like some of the angles doesnt mean it was the worst, in fact the ratings prove otherwise. everyone has had bad ideas, you can harp on the negatives and i can write all the positives, the nation impersonation with dx, this is your life rock, the mankind winning the title, austin vs mcmahon, the corporation, i can do this all night too.

as for the ministry sucking, thats your opinion and youre entitled to it, but i and many many others thought the ministry was great, a ton better than the biker undertaker which followed after vince left.

if wwe was so great after russo left, why havent the ratings or ppv buyrates reflected that? its simple, wwe went back to the same old formula that they still do to this day.
 
if it wasnt for russo we wouldve never had the beer truck, austin crushing mcmahons car witht the monster truck, the cement etc,

And you know what all those things have in common? They were unneeded bullshit that wasted limited airtime and did absolutely nothing to get Austin over: He was already over ffs.
 
And you know what all those things have in common? They were unneeded bullshit that wasted limited airtime and did absolutely nothing to get Austin over: He was already over ffs.

then lets go to 1996 when mcmahon didnt want austin to talk at all and russo gave him the air time to get over. for the record i never said russo got austin over, i said the angles were better with russo than without. lets not forget that after russo left austin walked out TWICE due to the creative not being on par to the russo era. the beer truck didnt get austin over, true, but it KEPT him over
 
then lets go to 1996 when mcmahon didnt want austin to talk at all and russo gave him the air time to get over. for the record i never said russo got austin over, i said the angles were better with russo than without. lets not forget that after russo left austin walked out TWICE due to the creative not being on par to the russo era. the beer truck didnt get austin over, true, but it KEPT him over

Sorry, Austin didn't need a dumb beer truck vignette to "keep him over" :rolleyes: Oh, and there's no doubt a number reasons why Austin walked twice but the idea that he walked because he didn't have Russo's ******ed programming isn't likely to be one of them.
 
the worst year? just because you didnt like some of the angles doesnt mean it was the worst, in fact the ratings prove otherwise. everyone has had bad ideas, you can harp on the negatives and i can write all the positives, the nation impersonation with dx, this is your life rock, the mankind winning the title, austin vs mcmahon, the corporation, i can do this all night too.

as for the ministry sucking, thats your opinion and youre entitled to it, but i and many many others thought the ministry was great, a ton better than the biker undertaker which followed after vince left.

if wwe was so great after russo left, why havent the ratings or ppv buyrates reflected that? its simple, wwe went back to the same old formula that they still do to this day.

The Ministry was just great. Especially the 90% of it being everyone trying to make Undertaker remember that he wasn't actually The Undertaker and his name was Mark. As you see, the storyline was Undertaker started to actually believe he was The Undertaker. That was interesting to you? I'll take Biker Taker over Mark believing he was The Undertaker any day.

I only listed a few things, the list could be much much longer. There was a lot of shit in 1999. I only remember this crap because I watched it recently due to a few knee surgeries and I needed stuff to do.

Do you remember anything other than the main events? 99% of everything other than the main events were horrible. Literally the entire undercard was usually painfully boring to sit through. If you really don't believe me, I suggest you go back and watch. It's a lot of fun. Also the interesting parts were due to interesting performers not Russo. Austin, Rock, HHH, Foley. Those guys didn't need writers.

Financially they were successful due to Austin (duh), the Monday Night Wars making wrestling incredibly popular in a way that cannot be duplicated and WCW being so bad by this time that anything WWE put out was automatically better and drew more fans.

Ever notice that the wrestling bubble popped with WCW dying? That is because the competition was gone. People who were solely WCW fans stopped watching. Causal fans that were interested by the Wars stopped watching. The bubble popped. Nothing WWE could do at that time would have kept the fans. The wrestling fad ended.

WWE cannot go back to that kind of interest because they cannot artificially recreate that interest. To be fair, the past few Wrestlemanias have had over a million buys or so. So it's not like the WWE is in despair. Could they be more popular than they are now? Probably. Could they be anywhere near the popularity they had during the Wars. No.

The best year of the AE was 2000 (the year after Russo left and to me, the best year product wise). 2001 was meh (invasion, Rock leaving and Austin being a heel really screwed that year). 1998 I don't really remember well enough to rate. But 1999 was just shit. Russo is trying to play victim and act like he only did a few things bad. That everyone was against him. Plain fact is, he sucked. He tries to hide it. He just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

When Austin came back he was actually interesting. The heel turn was a bad decision (as Austin later admitted). A big problem with that was, Rock left right after Austin turned heel. So in less than a week, WWE had lost their two biggest baby faces. That is not easy to replace. Plus injuries were catching up with Austin. The character was still interesting (him being Co-GMs with Bischoff being a good example) but his body could not handle the in ring stuff as well as he used too. Basically, 2001 was his last good year but the heel turn screwed it. By 2002 he was basically done.
 
I liked a lot of his stuff in WWE but he was awful in WCW.

It always seemed to me that Russo rose to his level of incompetence; a prime example of the Peter Principle in action.

As an employee of WWE, he was supervised by none other than Vince McMahon. Russo provided original thinking, but he was kept under control ....he wrote ideas, not policy.

With more freedom at WCW, it seemed Russo couldn't resist seeing himself as a pro wrestling guru; that anything he came up with would be successful due to the fact that he wrote it. That he also couldn't resist casting himself as an on-air character indicated that he had an unrealistic view of his role in the world of pro wrestling. You could argue that Vince McMahon did the same thing....and I'd argue back that Vince Russo ain't no Vince McMahon.

We've all seen examples of the Peter Principle in action in our own jobs; employees who were fine in supporting positions rising to the top and having the company find they weren't up to the task. If left in their old jobs, things would have been fine.

That was Vince Russo, imo.
 
One thing I've accepted is he is the last person to blame for WCW's demise, that place was screwed and they gave Russo the impossible task of fixing things immediately and having no patience for the long term.

In WWE he did pretty good and showed he could be a good writer, he's just not the best guy to lead but he's certainly creative enough to make captivating television. Honestly, I would prefer Russo over WWE's current writers any day of the week, now THAT'S bad writing.

Russos fine and seems nice enough.
 

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