[Official]Peep Show HQ

[Murfish]

Christian
Creepy Little Bastard
Captain Charisma
Christian Cage

He is known by many names and he is the Instant Classic. His legacy spreads from the WWF to the Big E to T.N.A. Share your love for him here.

Why be one of the millions when you can be a Peep?

 

[Uncle Sam]

I'm a Peep. Even when Christian didn't come to England (you motherfucker!), I remained a Peep. Even when Christian languished in TNA's midcard, I was a Peep. Even now, when Christian's in ECW, I'm a Peep.

I hope I don't harm his reputation by saying this, but Christian is up there with guys like Jarrett when it comes to underrated. Perhaps not as underrated as Jarrett. In TNA, Christian's shown he's on the same level as guys like Kurt Angle, Sting, Booker T, Samoa Joe and AJ Styles. You might smirk at that, but these are top level guys.

Does Christian stand a chance of winning? No, not unless we get three or four major upsets. Is he every bit as good as his "brother"? I'd say so. Hopefully, he'll get far.

 

[OIL]

Christian is extremely underrated. Some of his matches are classics, when not billed as just that. Strong gimmick, strong character. A great man.

Deffo getting my backing in this thing.

 

[klunderbunker]

Christian may be the most overrated wrestler I've ever seen. What is this greatness that I've never seen in him? He's a solid midcarder. That's about all. He fits in on ECW and was good in TNA. He's not a mainstream main eventer though. No way.

 

[Uncle Sam]

TNA is perfectly mainstream. Perhaps not as popular as WWE, where he was also briefly a part time main eventer, but still mainstream. Watching his matches with Joe, Angle and Styles in TNA showed what he was capable of. He always made himself and everyone involved look good. The man single-handedly responsible for Kaz's sudden popularity. The bastard.

 

[klunderbunker]

He's on my list for the tournament. He's definitely got the credentials, but to me he failed in the main event scene, simply because he was boring. He's good, but that's about it.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Captain Charisma boring? How very dare you, good sir! Alex Shelley's still more charismatic.

 

[klunderbunker]

Who said I'm good or a sir?

Yes I find him boring. His promos are practically the same every week and he just bored me to tears on the mic. It was the same thing over and over again and while it was ok, it just got old fast.

 

[NSL]

Except for leaving him off of my list in an exhausted stupor, Christian has my full support for a majority of the tourney. However, at some point, he's going to be overcome.

He's one of my top 5 favorites in the WWE right now, and I'm going to try and push him where I can.

 

[OIL]

Christian may be the most overrated wrestler I've ever seen. What is this greatness that I've never seen in him? He's a solid midcarder. That's about all. He fits in on ECW and was good in TNA. He's not a mainstream main eventer though. No way.

Watch his matches.

He deserves a top spot in the WWE.

 

[klunderbunker]

Really? Then why have I watched most of his big matches and thought little of them? Christian is fine, but that's all. He goes out, has a pretty good match, and goes back to the locker room. It's 20 minutes of perfectly acceptable wrestling, but that's all.

 

[ad21k]

I'll be lending my support for as long as he is in the tournament, Christian is one of my favourite wrestlers, on the contray to what Klunderblunder said about his promos been boring, I believe quite the opposite. Christian is one of the most entertaining charismatic wrestlers of the last 9 years. Discounting Rock and Austin there isnt anyone in my opinion better than him on the mic. His main disadvantage is obviously his size, but aside from his look he is a great wrestler.

He carried TNA when he was champion and the biggest mistake I feel TNA has made over the last few years was not giving him an even longer run. He was like Jeff Jarrett only better in my opinion. I soon lost intrest in TNA when christian was given a lighter schedule. As far as his matches are concerned, he had a couple of very good matches with Angle, and Samoa Joe. In fact I will even go as far as saying that they are Samoa Joe's best matches to date. If there one thing about his matches though it is consistancy, he consistantly wrestles good matches and always always puts his opponent over, which is in no part down to his excellent selling ability. Anyway there 7/8 wrestlers I'd vote over him in the tournament, but until I have to do that I will vote for Christian.

 

[ad21k]

Some Christian videos for his peeps

[youtube]Hc8U6G2yAEA[/youtube]
[youtube]KtY7k1kgmrw[/youtube]
[youtube]VVQP_ssYxLg[/youtube]
[youtube]iSloHZ9j6oE[/youtube]

 

[Y 2 Jake]

Christian proved in TNA that he's just not main event material. Great on the mic, but he didn't have a single match in TNA that could be called a classic. It's not like he wasn't given the oppertunity.

 

[ad21k]

Christian proved in TNA that he's just not main event material. Great on the mic, but he didn't have a single match in TNA that could be called a classic. It's not like he wasn't given the oppertunity.

A bit harsh, there is a distinct lack of talent for him to work with in TNA. The only two wrestlers capable of keeping the company credible have been Sting and Angle. Chrisitan did well with what he had to work with, he may not have had great matches but he wasn't short of good matches - Angle, Joe and Kaz (of all people) Just to name a few. If TNA had been clever and put him in lengthier feud with Angle, or a decent feud with Sting then we could have seen so much more from Christian. I mean its not like anyone other than Angle or Sting have been able to produce any great matches in TNA period.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

Don't people talk about TNA as having the best talent in wrestling today> He was allowed to feud with Sting, Angle, Styles, Joe and others. And like you said, he had a great match with Kaz. In fact that was probably his best match in the company. And it wasn't a great ladder match, it was just very good.

He was given the oppertunity and he didn't do much with it. His main event matches might have suffered from the usual TNA ref bumps and such. But his mid card matches were usually free from a lot of that stuff. Yet he still didn't produce anything worth watching again.

 

[ad21k]

Don't people talk about TNA as having the best talent in wrestling today> He was allowed to feud with Sting, Angle, Styles, Joe and others. And like you said, he had a great match with Kaz. In fact that was probably his best match in the company. And it wasn't a great ladder match, it was just very good.

Styles and Joe are nowhere near main event material either, they had some entertaining matches when they were in the x-division but aside from that they lack charisma, the ability to sell, and are unable to storytell to a satisfactory extent for main eventers. He hasn't had a singles feud with Sting, and his singles feud with Angle was breif - the match they had was good but tarnished by stupid TNA endings. His matches with Joe have been the best Joe has had to date including those with Angle and Sting, although maybe not as memorable merely because the storylines were weaker. He had a couple of triple threats with each of them but aside from that not a proper storyline.

He was given the oppertunity and he didn't do much with it. His main event matches might have suffered from the usual TNA ref bumps and such. But his mid card matches were usually free from a lot of that stuff. Yet he still didn't produce anything worth watching again.

I guess its a matter of opinion, Christian's second run as champion was ok I felt, in fact its the only time I have watched TNA on a regular basis. I'm not saying he set TNA alight but no-one has been able to. He did a decent job as champion, and it wasn't a dramatic failure ala CM Punk, Samoa Joe, Rey Mysterio etc.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

Styles and Joe are nowhere near main event material either,

They were.

they had some entertaining matches when they were in the x-division but aside from that they lack charisma, the ability to sell, and are unable to storytell to a satisfactory extent for main eventers.

Styles and Joe have both and better matches than Christian in TNA.

Charisma is overrated anyway, it's not like it helped Cage.

He hasn't had a singles feud with Sting, and his singles feud with Angle was breif - the match they had was good but tarnished by stupid TNA endings.

If I had time I'd look up how much he's faced those two over the past couple of years. Lots is my guess. Feuds sell PPVs, but most of the time, in TNA at least, it's the matches you remember.

I guess its a matter of opinion, Christian's second run as champion was ok I felt, in fact its the only time I have watched TNA on a regular basis. I'm not saying he set TNA alight but no-one has been able to.

Kurt Angle & the X-Division.

He did a decent job as champion, and it wasn't a dramatic failure ala CM Punk, Samoa Joe, Rey Mysterio etc.

Punk & Mysterio were underdog champions, and Joe wasn't booked in the same way as how he gained popularity in TNA.

 

[ad21k]

They were.



Styles and Joe have both and better matches than Christian in TNA.

Charisma is overrated anyway, it's not like it helped Cage.

They didnt though, Samoa Joe had some ok matches with Angle, and AJ styles has had some good matches but thats it. Neither have had any great matches just like Cage. Only Angle/Sting have had great matches. Please don't count Styles/Joe's spot fests in the x-division as great matches. Charisma is vitally important, how many champions have got over without charisma, ever?

If I had time I'd look up how much he's faced those two over the past couple of years. Lots is my guess. Feuds sell PPVs, but most of the time, in TNA at least, it's the matches you remember.

He really hasn't especially Sting, he's wrestled Sting three times i think, once was a singles match on Impact, the other two triple threats. He's only wrestled Angle in singles once on PPV, I don't know how many on Impact.

Which is part of my point, Cage never had any bad matches, the majority of his matches were decent, so you can't criticise him by saying his matches were awful. As for matches been memorable, there really hasnt been that many memorable matches in TNA's entire history, like I said Angle and Sting have had a couple and thats about it.

Kurt Angle & the X-Division.

Kurt Angle yes but I'm not debating that Angle is a great wrestler. The x-division isnt a draw, its a almost pointless sideshow of crusierweight style wrestling in the most part, if the x-division was so great the WWE would have one too.

Punk & Mysterio were underdog champions, and Joe wasn't booked in the same way as how he gained popularity in TNA.

The point of what I was saying was that Christian didnt do any worst than any of the other champions ever in TNA excluding Angle and Sting who are two proven draws. Ratings were steady through Cage's run as champion, no-one really knows TNA PPV buyrates so you cant say he was a failure as champion in any way. Just because he didnt draw a load more people to TNA or have loads of 5 star matches with a bunch of glorified indy wrestlers in the most part, he's not main event material?

 

[Y 2 Jake]

They didnt though, Samoa Joe had some ok matches with Angle, and AJ styles has had some good matches but thats it. Neither have had any great matches just like Cage.

Styles & Joe have had great matches for the enviroment they are in.

Only Angle/Sting have had great matches.

Angle w/ Joe.

Sting?

Please don't count Styles/Joe's spot fests in the x-division as great matches.

Why not?

Charisma is vitally important, how many champions have got over without charisma, ever?

It is important. But the end result should always be match quality. Charisma will help engage people, but you can get by without it if you're talented enough.

Which is part of my point, Cage never had any bad matches, the majority of his matches were decent, so you can't criticise him by saying his matches were awful. As for matches been memorable, there really hasnt been that many memorable matches in TNA's entire history, like I said Angle and Sting have had a couple and thats about it.

All his matches were fine. Nothing special, not great or awful. He's had Jeff Jarrett's career, sandwiched into two and a half years.

The x-division isnt a draw,

It was for TNA at one point.

if the x-division was so great the WWE would have one too.

Nope. If WWE hand an X-Division then Rey Mysterio wouldn't serve much of a purpose.

The point of what I was saying was that Christian didnt do any worst than any of the other champions ever in TNA excluding Angle and Sting who are two proven draws.

They don't appear to be drawing too well for TNA at the moment.

Ratings were steady through Cage's run as champion, no-one really knows TNA PPV buyrates so you cant say he was a failure as champion in any way.

well I can, because I'm basing it on matches and not how many people watched him. There was nothing special about any of his matches. Maybe you can blame the people he faced, but those same wrestlers have all gone on to have some pretty good matches with other opponents.

Just because he didnt draw a load more people to TNA or have loads of 5 star matches with a bunch of glorified indy wrestlers in the most part, he's not main event material?

Glorified indy wrestlers?

No he's not main event material. TNA realized that after a while and turned him into an upper mid card wrestler.

 

[ad21k]

Styles & Joe have had great matches for the enviroment they are in.

Angle w/ Joe.

Sting?

Sting/Angle BFG.

And none of Angle/Joe's matches were any better than Angle/Cage final resolution '08 or against all odds 2007.

Why not?

Because they are spot fests that dont appeal to the vast majority of fans, and were matches devoid of storytelling, like most cruiserweight matches.

It is important. But the end result should always be match quality. Charisma will help engage people, but you can get by without it if you're talented enough.

Who has ever been a sustained main eventer without charisma? There needs to be a decent level of charisma otherwise people lose interest quicker, better charisma also helps develop storylines as such.

All his matches were fine. Nothing special, not great or awful. He's had Jeff Jarrett's career, sandwiched into two and a half years.

Exactly he's consistant, Joe and Styles are not.

It was for TNA at one point.

When they had record low ratings? I don't class that as drawing.

Nope. If WWE hand an X-Division then Rey Mysterio wouldn't serve much of a purpose.

I agree, Mysterio would be a terrible x-division wrestler because he's too old to hit the spots he used to be able to.

They don't appear to be drawing too well for TNA at the moment.

What record 1.3 ratings aren't good?

well I can, because I'm basing it on matches and not how many people watched him. There was nothing special about any of his matches. Maybe you can blame the people he faced, but those same wrestlers have all gone on to have some pretty good matches with other opponents.

Your opinion on his matches is irrelevent, and subjective. In fact so is mine, what is important is what the majority of fans think of them.

Glorified indy wrestlers?

Aj Styles, Samoa Joe, and the entire x-division basically...

No he's not main event material. TNA realized that after a while and turned him into an upper mid card wrestler.

TNA had a better option for champion when Angle joined, and when Sting returned.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

Sting/Angle BFG.

And none of Angle/Joe's matches were any better than Angle/Cage final resolution '08 or against all odds 2007.

They were. People remember the Joe/Angle matches, and people honestly thought that it might make TNA into a legit challenger to WWE.

Because they are spot fests that dont appeal to the vast majority of fans, and were matches devoid of storytelling, like most cruiserweight matches.

You're mistaking the X-Division matches of now with the ones from 4 years ago.

Who has ever been a sustained main eventer without charisma? There needs to be a decent level of charisma otherwise people lose interest quicker, better charisma also helps develop storylines as such.

Undertaker, but that's a poor example because he had a killer gimmick.

Yokozuna was another.

Exactly he's consistant, Joe and Styles are not.

How are they not? Styles is one of the few wrestlers around that almost everybody loves.

When they had record low ratings? I don't class that as drawing.

Drawing in the same way ROH does. It's different from WWE so people liked it and sought it out.

I agree, Mysterio would be a terrible x-division wrestler because he's too old to hit the spots he used to be able to.

Rey Mysterio doesn't do what he did 10 years ago, but WWE bill him like he still does. That's why it wouldn't work.

What record 1.3 ratings aren't good?

Going up in the ratings is good. But improving weekly each week is better. When will they go up to 1.4? Whatever a 1.4 is.

Your opinion on his matches is irrelevent, and subjective. In fact so is mine, what is important is what the majority of fans think of them.

The majority of fans think Christian is a better talker than wrestler. The majority of fans also don't talk about Christian matches in the same way they do everyone else.

 

[ad21k]

They were. People remember the Joe/Angle matches, and people honestly thought that it might make TNA into a legit challenger to WWE

I don't except the one they had in the cage i think that was supposed to be like an MMA shoot fight, and I only remember that because it was terrible. Anyone who believes or ever believes TNA can compete with WWE is deluded. And who said this, the majority of wrestling fans or some IWFs?

You're mistaking the X-Division matches of now with the ones from 4 years ago.

They were still crap, they had better wrestlers competing in them granted, but the matches were still spot fests.

Undertaker, but that's a poor example because he had a killer gimmick.

Yokozuna was another.

I will actualy conceed this point as there is an exception, and that is big guys. Big guys often dont need charisma because they get over because of their size. However even so all of his sucessful feuds, came against wrestlers who had a great amount of charisma. My point was it is very rare, and very difficult to get over, and to have a sucessful sustained main event run without charisma.

How are they not? Styles is one of the few wrestlers around that almost everybody loves.

Styles is ok, but he isn't a main eventer. He is no better in Christian in ring. Explain how he is better? Because he can hit bigger moves? Christian is a superior storyteller, seller, and mic worker. Styles is somewhat similar to someone like CM Punk, if you need a comparrison to help understand.

Drawing in the same way ROH does. It's different from WWE so people liked it and sought it out.

The market for that type of wrestling is tiny, otherwise TNA would run two hours of x-division action. There simply isnt the demand for it and I can see why, it's very similar to crusierweight wrestling. For more info see this post:

The crusierweight title was meaningless, the lack of mainstream popularity for crusierweight wrestling in the majority of WWE's terrorities (USA, Canada, and Europe mostly) meant that there was little demand to see cruiserweight style of wrestling.

In addition I have argued in the past, and I'm sure it was a consideration when WWE took the decision that crusierweight wrestling generally teaches wrestlers the wrong thing. Instead of learning to storytell, and perfecting selling opponents offense, some wrestlers are conned into believing that the most iportant thing about wrestling is who can hit the best move, or how many spots you can fit into a match. WWE obviously doesnt want young talent, picking up bad habits because these wrestlers become almost useless when you bring them out of the circus style of cruiserweight wrestling.

Another factor is WWE had too many championships, it still did. WWE decided to get rid of the one with the least credibility/prestige/importance - common sense really.

The final factor was probably that TNA were building the X-division around these type of wrestlers. A huge mistake on TNA's part looking back at it, Vince possibly saw what the x-division was doing to TNA and how it was starting to drag the credibility of TNA down, WWE obviously wasn't going to invest in a type of wrestling that is failing, when another company had already invested in it with little sucess. WWE deciced to distance itself from cruiserweight wrestling which a good decision in my book.

Going up in the ratings is good. But improving weekly each week is better. When will they go up to 1.4? Whatever a 1.4 is.

I don't know when they will, but because average ratings are increasing you have to consider Angle/Sting draws. Of course Sting especially is a proven draw, and although Angle never drew brilliantly for WWE he is a big fish in a little pond so to speak so can still draw for them.

The majority of fans think Christian is a better talker than wrestler. The majority of fans also don't talk about Christian matches in the same way they do everyone else.

I agree he is a better talker than in ring wrestler, but his matches are still good. He is a really good seller, and a decent storyteller,and because it is very difficult to criticise his style of wrestling when people criticise him like you are doing now without any reasoning to why his matches are bad. Btw who is the majority? The IWC? because they only make up a minority of even TNA's fans.

 

[Khalifa]

I'm a peep. I loved his matches. I never new how good he was until a few months before Christian and Edge split up ( yeah doing a Paul Heyman there). He defently deserved what he got in WWE and if he stayed longer he could of got that main event scene he needed. Should do well on his comeback and cant wait to see the future of him.

 

[Uncle Sam]

I don't except the one they had in the cage i think that was supposed to be like an MMA shoot fight, and I only remember that because it was terrible.

That match was brilliant. Explain to me why it was terrible? It was pretty much the same as most wrestling matches, only where they usually show off their amateur wrestling bullshit, they show off their MMA bullshit instead. Meaning you have all the fun of your usual Joe/Angle match, but with a bit of a twist. Styles/Trigg? They went too far with the MMA gimmick.

Anyone who believes or ever believes TNA can compete with WWE is deluded. And who said this, the majority of wrestling fans or some IWFs?

I think about 96% of wrestling fans have internet access by now. It's 2009.

They were still crap, they had better wrestlers competing in them granted, but the matches were still spot fests.

What's wrong with a spotfest? Spots are the most exciting bits of a match. I'd take a random X division match any day over Hogan/Warrior, which is just endless posturing with no spots. Sure, spotfests might not be instant classics, but they're fun to watch and the crowd gets behind them. Case in point, Terrordome. Terrible match. Even I thought so. Crowd was chanting "this is awesome!". Why? People were falling off tall things.

I will actualy conceed this point as there is an exception, and that is big guys. Big guys often dont need charisma because they get over because of their size. However even so all of his sucessful feuds, came against wrestlers who had a great amount of charisma. My point was it is very rare, and very difficult to get over, and to have a sucessful sustained main event run without charisma.

I was gonna bring up Brock Lesnar. Does he count as a big guy? I suppose he does. D'oh.

Styles is ok, but he isn't a main eventer.

Yeah, he is. TNA are just saving him. I'd wager that, all things considered, he's TNA's most popular wrestler.

He is no better in Christian in ring. Explain how he is better? Because he can hit bigger moves?

The sick flips are one thing, yeah.

Christian is a superior storyteller,

People stopped seriously caring about this in the 80's. Don't tell Sly I said that, he'll pull out his pie chart. What exactly makes Christian a good storyteller anyway? The fact that he doesn't do as many big spots as others?
People often confuse people that can't do anything decent in the ring with good storytellers.

seller

Cage is very melodramatic. AJ, on the other hand, sells great. You legitimately believe his nervous system just collapsed sometimes.

and mic worker.

I should probably bring up that AJ is more charasmatic, too. Well, not recently. "I am legend!"? What the fuck is that?

Styles is somewhat similar to someone like CM Punk, if you need a comparrison to help understand.

How's he similar to Punk? Don't think I've ever seen Punk do something exciting.

The market for that type of wrestling is tiny, otherwise TNA would run two hours of x-division action.

They run quite a lot of it.

I don't know when they will, but because average ratings are increasing you have to consider Angle/Sting draws. Of course Sting especially is a proven draw, and although Angle never drew brilliantly for WWE he is a big fish in a little pond so to speak so can still draw for them.

Angle not drawing is a myth. Again, don't tell Sly. He'll have his pie chart at the reading.

I agree he is a better talker than in ring wrestler, but his matches are still good.

His talking is bad. It's all incredibly pre-planned and he looks incredibly flustered if the plan goes even slightly awry. Natural talkers like Alex Shelley do a much better job. AJ, too, as a matter of fact.

He is a really good seller

No, he's not.

and a decent storyteller

He's OK.

and because it is very difficult to criticise his style of wrestling when people criticise him like you are doing now without any reasoning to why his matches are bad

Outside of his ones with Joe, Angle or a ladder they're just very unremarkable. He's competent. Good even. But he's not really exceptional in any way.

Btw who is the majority? The IWC? because they only make up a minority of even TNA's fans.

It's called the internet. Seriously, I thought people'd at least have dial-up by this point.