Now I remember why I hate college classes...

[Slyfox696]

So in order to get a few graduate credits, I went to a conference and am writing a paper on it. My paper not only requires a minimum page length, but also to log a minimum number of hours on the project. How stupid is that?

A good paper is not determined by how long it is, but rather the quality of the paper itself. Attaching some arbitrary number of pages to a report not only weakens the paper by requiring extra fluff to be inserted along with the relevant information, it is a requirement that should be left in junior high school.

But even more infuriating is a minimum amount of time I have to spend on the project. Apparently, if I don't spend 45 hours on this project, then I could not have possibly done it well. So when I have legitimately only put in 15 hours on the project, it's not because I'm great at writing papers, or because I know what I'm doing when preparing lesson plans, or anything like that, it's only because I'm not working hard enough. Fail me for knowing how to type faster than 10 words per minute.

God I hate college. Think of all the learning that could be done if college classes didn't get in the way.

 

[Harthan]

I had a teacher once who told me college was the art of learning how to jump through sequentially smaller hoops.

What level is the course? i.e. 100, 200, etc.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

I know how you feel. I handed up a 13,000 word assignment on alcohol and its portrayal in both the media and if it was an accurate reflection on society today earlier in the week, and when I did so I asked my lecturer why it needed to be 13,000 words when I felt I could convey what the brief asked in half of what was required, maybe even less. All he did was shake his head and say, "Because you learn more this way", which is bullshit.

The log I have never heard of anywhere though. It makes no sense and is pretty redundant.

 

[Slyfox696]

I had a teacher once who told me college was the art of learning how to jump through sequentially smaller hoops.

It is. It's also a lesson on how to spot companies that try to rip you off, as this college tried to do to me with two parking tickets on the same Wednesday, despite my not being on campus, with the exception of Tuesday night basketball, since I graduated back in December 2007.

What level is the course? i.e. 100, 200, etc.

680

 

[Slyfox696]

I know how you feel. I handed up a 13,000 word assignment on alcohol and its portrayal in both the media and if it was an accurate reflection on society today earlier in the week, and when I did so I asked my lecturer why it needed to be 13,000 words when I felt I could convey what the brief asked in half of what was required, maybe even less. All he did was shake his head and say, "Because you learn more this way", which is bullshit.

The log I have never heard of anywhere though. It makes no sense and is pretty redundant.

Not only redundant, but also a waste of time, since nobodies is going to be accurate.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Not only redundant, but also a waste of time, since nobodies is going to be accurate.

So they basically give you a piece of paper and you have to write down how long you spend on the project, so that by the end it adds up to 45 hours or more? And they have no way of proving you'll have done the amount of time you log?

You'd have thought education would have advanced somewhat seeing as we're in the year 2012, but some are obviously evolving slower than the average bear.

 

[Harthan]

It is. It's also a lesson on how to spot companies that try to rip you off, as this college tried to do to me with two parking tickets on the same Wednesday, despite my not being on campus, with the exception of Tuesday night basketball, since I graduated back in December 2007.


680

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but grad courses usually start at 400, right? So you're pretty damn deep into graduate level courses, and they're still trying to tell you how to work? I mean, a minimum page requirement is one thing, but minimum time investment? That seems like the kind of thing you might pull on freshman or maybe first year grad students to make sure they do the work right, but this seems absurd. Furthermore, isn't this counter-intuitive to the presumed final goal, i.e. working in a company? It seems to me that a company would want you take the least amount of time possible to accomplish your goals with maximum quality.

 

[Slyfox696]

So they basically give you a piece of paper and you have to write down how long you spend on the project, so that by the end it adds up to 45 hours or more? And they have no way of proving you'll have done the amount of time you log?

You'd have thought education would have advanced somewhat seeing as we're in the year 2012, but some are obviously evolving slower than the average bear.

Well, I'm sure the thinking is that to get 3 credit hours as a regular student, you would presumably spend 45 hours in class during the semester. Who knows, maybe this is the university's rule and not the instructors.

Either way, it's silly.

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but grad courses usually start at 400, right?

I'm sure it depends on the University. Where I went to college, 400 level classes were senior level courses.

So you're pretty damn deep into graduate level courses

Nope, first three grad credits I've taken. Why? Because I hated college classes.

I liked college itself well enough, just hated most college courses.

 

[Remy LaCroix]

Are we bashing college here?

Last year I took an entry-level test to determine if I needed to take any "remedial" classes when I start college. I had to write a 2000+ word essay in one hour on whether students living on-campus for the first year was a good thing or not. I bullshitted it by writing how I wouldn't know anything of that sort since I was just starting at a community college and ranted on about how stupid the question was, but I did answer it by saying no and that it was still a stupid question for them to give me as an essay topic. Took me 30 minutes and I used the rest of the time to add more filler AKA shitting over the topic.

I aced it with flying colors, but bombed the math portion badly. I never went back to finish enrolling because I didn't want to pay for remedial classes on a subject I had trouble with since the 7th grade.

 

[shattered dreams]

While I agree with you in principle, I am not sure I agree to the extent you are taking it. Assignment lengths do have a purpose beyond requiring extra fluff. Fluff is a way to circumvent the assignment, not the assignment itself. Sometimes you might think a topic can be adequately covered in a shorter piece but that could just as easily mean you haven't gone into the depth the instructor intended. This could also be a purpose of logging your time. That being forcing you to do more with the topic than the assignment might otherwise suggest.

I do suspect the time requirement is more of a technicality though which is pretty dumb. You are getting credit for a whole class though so requiring 45 hours worth of work seems pretty reasonable even if assuming everyone works at the same pace is dumb. I'd have more sympathy for you if your main complaint didn't seem to boil down to they didn't give me enough work. Most graduate students would kill for that "annoyance."

Are we bashing college here?

Go back to school. The nice thing about college is that once you get the basic requirements out of the way you don't have to take classes that you know you don't like or aren't good at.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

I aced it with flying colors, but bombed the math portion badly. I never went back to finish enrolling because I didn't want to pay for remedial classes on a subject I had trouble with since the 7th grade.

You don't want to pay for a class you know you need?

 

[Harthan]

Are we bashing college here?

Last year I took an entry-level test to determine if I needed to take any "remedial" classes when I start college. I had to write a 2000+ word essay in one hour on whether students living on-campus for the first year was a good thing or not. I bullshitted it by writing how I wouldn't know anything of that sort since I was just starting at a community college and ranted on about how stupid the question was, but I did answer it by saying no and that it was still a stupid question for them to give me as an essay topic. Took me 30 minutes and I used the rest of the time to add more filler AKA shitting over the topic.

I aced it with flying colors, but bombed the math portion badly. I never went back to finish enrolling because I didn't want to pay for remedial classes on a subject I had trouble with since the 7th grade.

So...you didn't want to take remedial courses in a subject that you had trouble with? Not sure I follow the logic. Seems like they would have been helpful.

 

[Slyfox696]

While I agree with you in principle, I am not sure I agree to the extent you are taking it. Assignment lengths do have a purpose beyond requiring extra fluff. Fluff is a way to circumvent the assignment, not the assignment itself. Sometimes you might think a topic can be adequately covered in a shorter piece but that could just as easily mean you haven't gone into the depth the instructor intended.

That's possible, but if you don't go into the depth the professor expects, then you get a lower grade. College students are adults, and they are not forced to be there.

But if I can write everything I need to write in 11 pages (which was the case on this paper), why should I HAVE to make it 15, just to assure my paper won't be disqualified, for lack of a better term?

I'd have more sympathy for you if your main complaint didn't seem to boil down to they didn't give me enough work. Most graduate students would kill for that "annoyance."

That's not my complaint at all. My complaint is the idea that I'm not competent to turn in a quality project, without working for at least 45 hours on it. My complaint is that it forces me to be dishonest about how much time I spent on a project, just to make sure my project gets graded.

 

[klunderbunker]

It depends on the school. At UK a 520 class that I took was a senior class.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Most of my senior engineering classes were 400 classes. I remember doing a semester long project that spanned two different courses.

 

[shattered dreams]

That's possible, but if you don't go into the depth the professor expects, then you get a lower grade. College students are adults, and they are not forced to be there.

But if I can write everything I need to write in 11 pages (which was the case on this paper), why should I HAVE to make it 15, just to assure my paper won't be disqualified, for lack of a better term?

I guess the way I see it from the outside looking in is you wrote 11 pages in 15 hours. See how long it takes you to write at least 4 more pages of non-filler before you can really pass judgment on the time requirement.

That's not my complaint at all. My complaint is the idea that I'm not competent to turn in a quality project, without working for at least 45 hours on it. My complaint is that it forces me to be dishonest about how much time I spent on a project, just to make sure my project gets graded.

I don't see how this doesn't imply that you are supposed to do 45 hours of work but the assignment doesn't provide for that many hours of work. What I was getting at here is that if we assume you are right and the teacher has vastly overestimated the amount of time such a project "should" take then that one assignment should not be the only thing you have to do to get credit for the class. 15 hours is a joke for 3 credit hours. I've probably spent that on any of my 3 credit hours classes in a week before. I see where you are coming from but I think you are looking at this from a have your cake and eat it too scenario. In short, count your blessings.

 

[Slyfox696]

I guess the way I see it from the outside looking in is you wrote 11 pages in 15 hours. See how long it takes you to write at least 4 more pages of non-filler before you can really pass judgment on the time requirement.

No, I did the project in 15 hours. This includes lesson plan preparation, going to the conference that was mandatory to begin the course, presenting the lesson and reviewing it with others.

I don't see how this doesn't imply that you are supposed to do 45 hours of work but the assignment doesn't provide for that many hours of work.

Because you're making the assumption everyone works at the same rate. Surely you've taken an exam where you have "X" amount of time to finish, but some people finished early, correct?

There may be people who need 45 hours to complete the task. I did not.

What I was getting at here is that if we assume you are right and the teacher has vastly overestimated the amount of time such a project "should" take then that one assignment should not be the only thing you have to do to get credit for the class.

Well, there are many elements to the project. It's not simply being given a topic and write 15 pages.

15 hours is a joke for 3 credit hours.

Why? This is the type of thinking I have a problem with. Why should amount of time play any part in the quality of work completed?

I've probably spent that on any of my 3 credit hours classes in a week before.

Same here. And it was necessary for that class/assignment. It's not on this one.

I see where you are coming from but I think you are looking at this from a have your cake and eat it too scenario.

And I think you're falling into the same trap the class/university is, that somehow time spent on a project affects the quality of the project. While a lack of quality can sometimes be attributed to lack of time spent on it, there is no rule which says to have a quality project, you have to spend an arbitrarily set amount of time on it.

 

[Bernkastel]

I have been to two Architectural seminars involving the latest fads and trends in the field. While both were interesting they both ran way too long for my taste, and neither presenter had much charisma. Got 6 credit hours for graduate school for listening in though.

 

[shattered dreams]

And I think you're falling into the same trap the class/university is, that somehow time spent on a project affects the quality of the project. While a lack of quality can sometimes be attributed to lack of time spent on it, there is no rule which says to have a quality project, you have to spend an arbitrarily set amount of time on it.

I'd be surprised if the two were not positively correlated. As such it seems a pretty reasonable policy for when you have to define one for everyone. You can't really create policy in such a situation based on the exceptions to the rule. If you do then everyone thinks they are the exception and the overall quality suffers. However, I get why being the exception is frustrating here so I won't exceed my quota

 

[Tastycles]

I'm so with you. Every single piece of advice that you are given about writing outside of education is to keep it concise and get your point across without boring the reader. However, for some reason, you have to reach pointless word targets when at School or University. At school, I get it, because you will have a lot of people that write nothing and are crap if they aren't forced to write a fair amount, but by the time you get to University, people are there by choice, so they should know how to get a point across without having a strict framework.

 

[Moon Knight]

Don't deal with that anymore, all my papers now say no more than an x number of words.

 

[Slyfox696]

I'd be surprised if the two were not positively correlated.

I could spend three days painting on a canvas and still not have near the quality of painting as Bob Ross could do in 25 minutes.

Enforcing some arbitrarily set amount of time and saying a project cannot be of acceptable quality unless that time is met is ridiculous.

As such it seems a pretty reasonable policy for when you have to define one for everyone.

So...just don't define one? Just say "Here are the things you need to do for your project, and here are the things you need to include in the paper about your project. Be detailed, be thorough and satisfactorily address the following prompts."

It's not hard at all.

However, I get why being the exception is frustrating here so I won't exceed my quota

Good, because you're becoming dangerously close.

I'm so with you. Every single piece of advice that you are given about writing outside of education is to keep it concise and get your point across without boring the reader. However, for some reason, you have to reach pointless word targets when at School or University. At school, I get it, because you will have a lot of people that write nothing and are crap if they aren't forced to write a fair amount, but by the time you get to University, people are there by choice, so they should know how to get a point across without having a strict framework.

Exactly.

 

[Bernkastel]

It is. It's also a lesson on how to spot companies that try to rip you off, as this college tried to do to me with two parking tickets on the same Wednesday, despite my not being on campus, with the exception of Tuesday night basketball, since I graduated back in December 2007.

Just about the only thing that you could do would have been to try and challenge the tickets; but then you'd need irrefutable proof that you weren't in the wrong. 90% of the time you wind up bending over and taking it anyway.

I work for Parking and Transportation at my college and management as said that people are almost always in the wrong when it comes to parking tickets.

 

[Slyfox696]

Just about the only thing that you could do would have been to try and challenge the tickets; but then you'd need irrefutable proof that you weren't in the wrong. 90% of the time you wind up bending over and taking it anyway.

I work for Parking and Transportation at my college and management as said that people are almost always in the wrong when it comes to parking tickets.

They waived the tickets. It was a big to-do, which nearly ended with me driving to the campus and making someone feel the size of an insect, but luckily they got it taken care of before I got there.

 

[PlayTheGame]

college, in my opinion, makes things challenging just to do so for the hell of it, as a method of handling difficult real-life problems.

word counts in high school are there for development.

word counts in college are there to try to meet a hard goal without messing up your thoughts/paper too much along the way.

critical thinking and all that jazz.