North Koreans to launch controversial rocket

[LSN80]

Because they need it to put a weather satellite in orbit, of course. Yet surprisingly, no other nation is buying that.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/12/world/asia/north-korea-launch/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

The North Korean government has promised to launch the aforementioned rocket into orbit between the hours of 7 a.m. and noon Thursday and Sunday, which actually translates to between the hours 6pm(EST) and 11pm Wednesday and Saturday United States time. Pyongyang, the capital of the People's Republic of North Korea has been warned by South Korea, the United States, and Japan alike. The United States through Washington D.C., which had brokered a deal to send food aid to Pyongyang, has suspended the deal indefinitely in order to get North Korea to back down. Both they and their neighbors to the south, the South Koreans, have been vocal that they believe the launch to not be for the purposes of launching a weather satellite, but as a guise under which to conduct a ballistic missiles test. Current U.S. Security Council President Susan Rice said the following regarding the proposed launch:

"The wise thing would be for North Korea to avoid this provocative and ill-considered action, which is in blatant violation of international law and their international obligations,"

South Korean officials have stated that intelligence gathering reports have indicated that the launch site is where North Korea has previously staged atomic blasts. The report also notes that the previous two rockets the North Koreans have launched from this area, in 2009, have been under false pretenses as well. In those cases within a few weeks to a few months have resulted twice in staged atomic blasts when the satellites have been in orbit. South Korea has stated that they will deal with this with "appropriate countermeasures" if this "grave provocation" does indeed take place. While South Korea has not noted what those countermeasures are, Japan has been direct about it's intentions should the rocket be launched. Japanese Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda said the following:

''We would like to call (on North Korea) for restraint until the very end. We are fully prepared to deal with any contingency, and if the rocket appears to be threatening our territory, we will shoot in down. "

Still, North Korea remains non-plussed, and despite the warnings from the US, Japan, South Korea, and the United Nations, they continue to assert that they will launch the rocket as planned. Part of me says that this is a country we send relief supplies and food to, and for what? Them to defy and essentially bite the hand that feeds them? But on the other hand, I fully believe after the time spent in Afghanistan and Iraq, we need to take a hands off approach in trying to "force" another country to do anything, unless provoked to do so. For now, I think the best course of action is to continue to indefinitely suspend sending supplies and food to them, and if they remain obstinate, let their neighbors take care of them if it comes to that.

Thoughts on this?

 

[Bernkastel]

The North Koreans have never had a good track record about these types of activites. I remember the uprising when Kim Jong Il announed North Korea's nuclear power programs. The first nuclear test of theirs I believe was condemned by the UN because it violated North Korea's non aggression pact with the US.

I do not blame the US, Japan, and especially South Korea for calling bullshit on this; with the knowledge that North Korea is capable of developing successful nuclear weapons, combined with the fact that no one really knows what Kim Jong Un is going to do with his power makes this an extremely combustable situation.

If North Korea is going to be sending anything into space, they really should have another country do it for them. Russia's space program is still alive and well; I'm sure they'd have no qualms about launching a satellite for them.

 

[Peoples_Champ]

The US should never have taken their foot off of North Korea's neck. Now that they have the power to send a missile that could hit Los Angeles, Hawaii or Seattle, its time to start using forceful diplomacy.

I'm tired of the US not throwing their weight around any more. Part of the reason I wanted the troops home from Iraq & Afghanistan is that there was no point in being there any more. Building schools and mosques in Afghan villages will not make a difference to a agriculturally-based society. But putting troops on the South Korean side of the border and threatening to attack will force North Korea's hand.

I absolutely agree with LSN80, the aid needs to stop immediately. If it doesn't advance the American agenda of regional peace, then trade the food for bombs.

 

[Lee]

My thoughts on this?

The rocket was launched before you made this thread, the rocket failed before you made this thread.

The problem with the rocket failing is that this could be a huge embaressment for the North Korean leadership which could cause one of two things:

1) Further upheaval in leadership in an already hostile situation is not good.

2) Another launch to say "yup we've still got it". If any country is going to launch a nuclear weapon it's them.

 

[Mustang Sally]

The US should never have taken their foot off of North Korea's neck.

Yes, we're supposed to learn from history so we don't repeat mistakes made in the past but, years ago, who could have foreseen all these countries that were aggressive, yet essentially powerless, looking to develop nuclear weapons? Sure, it's easy to see now that they're doing it, but the concept was unheard of in the mid-20th century. We knew these people held human rights in low regard; else why would people like the North Vietnamese be so willing to send their young men to their deaths with no restraint? We've seen the U.S. try to destroy another country's ability to make war while attempting to not hurt their private citizens, but the leaders of these countries don't feel the same way: ask the ghost of Osama bin Laden if he cared about our non-military citizens when he hit the World Trade Center. How do you fight people like this? How do you stop them before they strike?

So, what to do? The U.S. says it doesn't want to be policeman to the world, then we go and do it anyway. We don't want to force our way diplomatically into their countries to monitor what they might be doing because the world will criticize us for that, but if we sit back and wait until North Korea drops a bomb on whomever they're holding a grudge that week, the world will then criticize us for not acting and, paradoxically, accuse us of waiting until it was too late.

For now, we use diplomacy. Stop sending them aid if they persist in their behavior. That might not help since the leaders of North Korea might not care if their citizens starve or not, just as long as the leaders are well-fed. Still, short of threatening, what do we do?

 

[Davi323]

With great power, comes great responsibility.
All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

These two quotes, one from Spider-Man, one commonly attributed (but not verified) to Edmund Burke fairly accurately summarize my position on foreign policy. I don't like the fact that the US has to be the policemen of the world either. However, if nobody is willing to do it, the US kind of has a duty to do it. Not because we want to, but because we are the only country left with not only the means to do it, but the willpower to.

Sally, you hit the nail on the head, it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of situation. But, I would rather be damned for taking an active role in trying to prevent atrocities than to be damned by sitting back, doing nothing, and allowing them to happen. If Iran develops a nuclear weapon and uses it against Israel, because we did nothing to stop them, if we had a chance to stop North Korea from launching an attack, and did nothing, I would view that as being a much bigger failure than having people mad at the US for "meddling".

Essentially, if you see two kids fighting on the playground, as the adult, you have a duty to break it up.

 

[Davi323]

Update to the story:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/04/26/north-korea-missile-analysts-fake.html

A half dozen ominous new North Korean missiles showcased at a lavish military parade were clumsy fakes, analysts say, casting more doubt on the country's claims of military prowess after its recent rocket launch failure.

The weapons displayed April 15 appear to be a mishmash of liquid-fuel and solid-fuel components that could never fly together. Undulating casings on the missiles suggest the metal is too thin to withstand flight. Each missile was slightly different from the others, even though all were supposedly the same make. They don't even fit the launchers they were carried on.

"There is no doubt that these missiles were mock-ups," Markus Schiller and Robert Schmucker, of Germany's Schmucker Technologie, wrote in a paper posted recently on the website Armscontrolwonk.com that listed those discrepancies. "It remains unknown if they were designed this way to confuse foreign analysts, or if the designers simply did some sloppy work."

Soooooo...It's possible that this was all one large sham to begin with, that North Korea is nowhere near possessing the capability to launch any kind of nuclear missile. If true, than it's possible that Kim Il Jong could provide the world with even more amusement than his perfect golfer father did. LULZ at the attempted fake out.