The marks who compare TNA and wCw are right, but not in the way they think, also the people bitching about the influx of former WWE talent in TNA need to remember something. THIS IS THE EXACT SAME THING WCW DID IN THE 90'S the only difference is that the pocket book isn't bottomless so it's harder (not impossible just look at christian, jeff hardy the first time) to buy people over in the utmost prime of their careers. So don't go complaining about what TNA does with former wwe talent when wCw used to do the same thing. If this was the 90's or wrestling was still a socially relevant form of entertainment TNA would most likely have replaced ECW as the number 3 promotion (assuming they had the current talent base of former wcw/wwe wrestlers). no real question here just an opinion, feedback is welcome tho i assume i will get flamed like a mofo for stating my opinion on a public forum.
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My Opinion on the WCW/TNA Argument
- Thread starter famous
- Start date
TNA is running with most the same creative team as WCW, and even most the same stars.
The major difference besides the pocket book, is that TNA has experience being WCW, and should know from its predecessor what not to do, things like calling out WWE for things put a lot of butts in the seats. Bischoffs one of my favorite wrestling geniuses, and Vince Russo is the devil, so seeing them both work together again makes me love and hate TNA, much like I loved WCW, until the band got back together.
The major difference besides the pocket book, is that TNA has experience being WCW, and should know from its predecessor what not to do, things like calling out WWE for things put a lot of butts in the seats. Bischoffs one of my favorite wrestling geniuses, and Vince Russo is the devil, so seeing them both work together again makes me love and hate TNA, much like I loved WCW, until the band got back together.
My Couch Pulls Out But I Don't
I am a WZ *****...GOD!
It isn't really fair to compare TNA's former WWE aquisitions to that of WCW's former WWF aquisitions.
You can't compare TNA picking up the likes of Jeff and Matt Hardy, Ken Anderson, Whoever the Pope was in WWE, Brian Kendrick...etc...
When WCW's major talent steals were Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, Hulk Hogan, Macho Man, Lex Luger...and so on....
When WCW was aquiring old WWF talent, they at least were capable of ratings and had fans. The ones TNA are taking, they are hoping will thrive off of the fact they were once in WWE.
Different as day and night.
As for the people running TNA....they are the same that were running WCW in its downfall so take that as you will...I do love Bischoff though...creative genius right there, second to Paul Heyman of course.
You can't compare TNA picking up the likes of Jeff and Matt Hardy, Ken Anderson, Whoever the Pope was in WWE, Brian Kendrick...etc...
When WCW's major talent steals were Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, Hulk Hogan, Macho Man, Lex Luger...and so on....
When WCW was aquiring old WWF talent, they at least were capable of ratings and had fans. The ones TNA are taking, they are hoping will thrive off of the fact they were once in WWE.
Different as day and night.
As for the people running TNA....they are the same that were running WCW in its downfall so take that as you will...I do love Bischoff though...creative genius right there, second to Paul Heyman of course.
Well why wouldnt TNA be like WCW, they did rise from the ashes of WCW and is the main reason why we have TNA today is cause of the Downfall of WCW. And the reason why TNA was created was for all the ex WCW guys who didnt sign to WWE a place for them to work and do what they love on a larger stage then the indys.
Plus look at TNA they have also given new life to Ex WWE guys who,
1. Wasn't what Vince liked, Eg Christian an ex 3 time World Champ and main eventer in TNA, Pope who is an entertaining performer.
2. Never got their chance to shine due to backstage crap, .. MR Anderson.
3. Just couldnt take the WWE life style but can still put on one hell of a match .. Eg Kurt Angle.
Plus look at TNA they have also given new life to Ex WWE guys who,
1. Wasn't what Vince liked, Eg Christian an ex 3 time World Champ and main eventer in TNA, Pope who is an entertaining performer.
2. Never got their chance to shine due to backstage crap, .. MR Anderson.
3. Just couldnt take the WWE life style but can still put on one hell of a match .. Eg Kurt Angle.
Mr. Artistic guy
Better Off This Way
Ah you see here's the difference. WCW at that time was able to pry away some of the major stars from the WWF with massive salaries, prospects and the like. TNA now waits until a talent has been let go and then acts as fast as they can to pick them up, even if they were quite clearly released for a very good reason, ie Jeff Hardy - Drug problems, Mr Anderson - Injuries, etc..
In short they are just a bottom feeder picking off the scraps WWE don't want which automatically makes them look desperate. The problem is TNA comes across as a WWE C show. TNA ought to be concentrating on pushing their home grown talent OVER the ex-major promotion ones, that would have the adverse effect. Hence why AJ looked like THE MAN when he was beating Kurt Angle back in '09. 'The WWE's highest paid superstar at a time who walked away on his own whim losing to some small time promotion guy? This I have to see!' But that may be showing signs of intelligence and TNA may as well be Jupiter in that respect right now.
So I'm not flaming you, but it isn't the same.
In short they are just a bottom feeder picking off the scraps WWE don't want which automatically makes them look desperate. The problem is TNA comes across as a WWE C show. TNA ought to be concentrating on pushing their home grown talent OVER the ex-major promotion ones, that would have the adverse effect. Hence why AJ looked like THE MAN when he was beating Kurt Angle back in '09. 'The WWE's highest paid superstar at a time who walked away on his own whim losing to some small time promotion guy? This I have to see!' But that may be showing signs of intelligence and TNA may as well be Jupiter in that respect right now.
So I'm not flaming you, but it isn't the same.
kingjaekob
Occasional Pre-Show
McCoy101 Kinda had it there for a minute!
First of all, the talent TNA is getting from WWE today, is not the same level talent WCW bought from WWF. Jeff Hardy, Anderson, Chrisitian, RVD etc... These guys have no talent, or if they do, they are not complete superstars, something is missing, either ring work, mic skills etc.. Hogan, Hall, Nash, Savage, etc... were complete Superstars in WWF. TNA is NOTHING! Never has been, and never will Be! WCW in its late stage was better than the Crap Bishcoff and The other guy put on Tv today for TNA! This Tna video library is Trash. WWF/WWE #1, NWA/WCW #2, AWA, WCCW, UWF, Stampede, Memphis, Florida fca and many old promotions were good! TNA is just plain crap! No talent, no nothing! Waste of everything!
First of all, the talent TNA is getting from WWE today, is not the same level talent WCW bought from WWF. Jeff Hardy, Anderson, Chrisitian, RVD etc... These guys have no talent, or if they do, they are not complete superstars, something is missing, either ring work, mic skills etc.. Hogan, Hall, Nash, Savage, etc... were complete Superstars in WWF. TNA is NOTHING! Never has been, and never will Be! WCW in its late stage was better than the Crap Bishcoff and The other guy put on Tv today for TNA! This Tna video library is Trash. WWF/WWE #1, NWA/WCW #2, AWA, WCCW, UWF, Stampede, Memphis, Florida fca and many old promotions were good! TNA is just plain crap! No talent, no nothing! Waste of everything!
Spidey Revivey
Porn is okay here long as it ain't dudes.
I don't quite follow this statement. Are you adressing upon how TNA buys talent previously acquired by the WWE like WCW did in its hey day, and how no one should scoff at this? I can understand that. But you go from making the above statement about how marks are right, but not in the way they think, to sayin:
So you're talking about two things that are unrelated, or so I would assume. I'm not bashing you in any way, I just don't quite get the point of the first thing you said as compared to the rest of the subject.
Well, there is a difference in what TNA is doing and what WCW has done. A few already remarked on how TNA has aquired WWE talent only when they have been released, as opposed to WCW flat-out buying their talent. So I won't go there. But I will say that since the 90-Day No-Compete Clause was made because of WWE talent jumping ship, whether or not wrestling was still a socially relevant form of entertainment TNA would not have replaced anybody. WCW's downfall is pretty much what created TNA. Are you saying if WCW didn't fall we would still have TNA? I don't think so.
Maybe another wrestling promotion would replace ECW, but TNA was founded on the same people that ran or at least were involved with WCW. Why do you think there are so many WCW veterans making appearances there compared to WWE? Jarret, Nash, DDP, Savage, Hall, Steiner, etc were All in TNA way before Hogan and Bischoff came around.
Everyone risks getting flamed for posting thoughts and ideas. What seperates the men from the boys is if you can take the heat.
TNA vs WCW = Same backstage crews, same commentry, same production style/crew, same bookers different funder, different network, same TV style, same overall approach.
Where do you think people always got the comparison from?
Had little to do with who they were picking up from WWE. It was what they started as and continued to put forth.
They even started with the NWA title which was the title WCW used b4 it became WCW.
and now more then ever, you have the people who ran WCW during it's arguably strongest period are trying to recreate the war with WWE and failing miserably. Most of that comes from the aquistions of average stars that WWE got rid of due to there personal issues or they left WWE because they didn't want them anymore, and even then not using them and pissing on people who actually have talent.
Pretty much what WCW did. spend all there money on "stealing" talent and short term gains, not enough on making a profit and puting forth content that people could really get into on a long term basis, and in the process they got rid of people that went on to WWF and became legends which ultimately lead to WCW dying
If WCW didn't have the backing of Ted Turner they never would've beaten WWF at any period and there would never have been a Monday Night Wars imo and they'd probably still be going today as a second tier company to WWE. TNA management should just worry about being the best they can be and forget about trying to recreate the past.
Where do you think people always got the comparison from?
Had little to do with who they were picking up from WWE. It was what they started as and continued to put forth.
They even started with the NWA title which was the title WCW used b4 it became WCW.
and now more then ever, you have the people who ran WCW during it's arguably strongest period are trying to recreate the war with WWE and failing miserably. Most of that comes from the aquistions of average stars that WWE got rid of due to there personal issues or they left WWE because they didn't want them anymore, and even then not using them and pissing on people who actually have talent.
Pretty much what WCW did. spend all there money on "stealing" talent and short term gains, not enough on making a profit and puting forth content that people could really get into on a long term basis, and in the process they got rid of people that went on to WWF and became legends which ultimately lead to WCW dying
If WCW didn't have the backing of Ted Turner they never would've beaten WWF at any period and there would never have been a Monday Night Wars imo and they'd probably still be going today as a second tier company to WWE. TNA management should just worry about being the best they can be and forget about trying to recreate the past.
Go figure- when two companies compete in the same industry, there are going to be parallels to other times where two companies competed in the same industry. Especially when the same people were operating the companies in question.
The most popular (concerning these forums) comparison of TNA and WCW is that TNA will fail in the way WCW did, and that's just an ignorant statement completely avoiding anything factual. Whereas WCW had a bottomless bank account, TNA has been extremely frugal (perhaps even too frugal) in their efforts to expand.
What TNA is currently is the result of the lessons learned from WCW. Every cycle is merely a reaction to the cycle immediately before it. Because of WCW, the WWE and TNA now have the familiar 90-day no compete clauses and place all wrestlers under copyrighted character names. (Unless, of course, the wrestler owns a name which would be worth more then one you could create, like Rob Van Dam or Hulk Hogan.) Because of WCW, TNA isn't spending loads of money upfront and creating the impression amongst TNA management that money will always be available for whatever their whims desire.
Some parallels are just natural. ROH is playing the role of ECW; a 3rd company who is constantly having its talent raided in order to fuel the competition(ish) between the two major companies. Talent's gotta come from somewhere, and there is much, much more to wrestling than the top two. It's not the Monday Night Wars, although some people love to read into a fireman's carry suplex and make a five act drama over it. But it's competition between two companies. There are bound to be similarities.
The most popular (concerning these forums) comparison of TNA and WCW is that TNA will fail in the way WCW did, and that's just an ignorant statement completely avoiding anything factual. Whereas WCW had a bottomless bank account, TNA has been extremely frugal (perhaps even too frugal) in their efforts to expand.
What TNA is currently is the result of the lessons learned from WCW. Every cycle is merely a reaction to the cycle immediately before it. Because of WCW, the WWE and TNA now have the familiar 90-day no compete clauses and place all wrestlers under copyrighted character names. (Unless, of course, the wrestler owns a name which would be worth more then one you could create, like Rob Van Dam or Hulk Hogan.) Because of WCW, TNA isn't spending loads of money upfront and creating the impression amongst TNA management that money will always be available for whatever their whims desire.
Some parallels are just natural. ROH is playing the role of ECW; a 3rd company who is constantly having its talent raided in order to fuel the competition(ish) between the two major companies. Talent's gotta come from somewhere, and there is much, much more to wrestling than the top two. It's not the Monday Night Wars, although some people love to read into a fireman's carry suplex and make a five act drama over it. But it's competition between two companies. There are bound to be similarities.
The problem with what you're saying is that sometimes a talent in one organization might not be appreciated and yet they go somewhere else and become stars. Have you ever heard the saying one mans garbage is another mans gold?
1. Kevin Nash was a WCW talent first before he became Diesel he was Vinnie Vegas and Oz in WCW but they let him go.
2.Undertaker was Mean Mark Enis in WCW before he was let go and WWE picked him up.
3.Stone Cold Steve Austin was Stunning Steve of the Hollywood blonde's along with Brian Pillman. Both let go by WCW.
4.Triple H was Hunter Hearst Helmsley the RIngmaster in WCW before they let him go.
5.Mick Foley was Cactus Jack in WCW first but let go.
Throw in Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit and Eddie Guerrero whom were all let go by WCW before they went to WWE/F.
Get the picture yet? If TNA were to use The Pope, Mr. Anderson and the likes right they could end up with a goldmine. Just because one organization didn't want them doesn't mean they can't be good as any one of them is capable of catching on and suddenly becoming a star. A lot of former guys WCW didn't think had what it took ended up being stars in WWE. Who knows when someone will get extremely popular.
I don't get why people are always complaining about TNA hiring former WWE guys when basically that's the history of wrestling. As far as old ones like Hulk Hogan, I don't like that either, but then again I never liked Hogan and never will. As for younger guys who didn't get over in WWE for one reason or another I don't mind that because that's what all wrestling organizations do.
jaceynightheat
Pre-Show Stalwart
Wrestlers jump promotions all of the time. They gotta put food on the table & pay their bills like everyone else.
TNA should mostly get different writers, less PPVs ( I'd say around 4 a year ).
My main grievance with TNA is the lack of build up in storylines & random gimmick matches. There is no mental foreplay with the storylines. Think back to when Kurt Angle showed up, within the first few months all "dream" matches had been done. They could have easily built up Angle vs Joe for a few months before they got in the ring together. Their love/hate relationship with Tag Team Wrestling drives me insane. A while ago Samoa Joe held the tag titles by himself - while The Steiner Bros, The Dudleys & New Age Outlaws were all fighting. Why not give The Steiners & Outlaws a World Tag Team Title run? It'd been nice for the record books.
The Television Title could be a great tool but I have no idea what they are doing with it. Who is Gunner & why is he the TV Champ? Can't Pope, Joe, Daniels be feuding over it?
TNA should mostly get different writers, less PPVs ( I'd say around 4 a year ).
My main grievance with TNA is the lack of build up in storylines & random gimmick matches. There is no mental foreplay with the storylines. Think back to when Kurt Angle showed up, within the first few months all "dream" matches had been done. They could have easily built up Angle vs Joe for a few months before they got in the ring together. Their love/hate relationship with Tag Team Wrestling drives me insane. A while ago Samoa Joe held the tag titles by himself - while The Steiner Bros, The Dudleys & New Age Outlaws were all fighting. Why not give The Steiners & Outlaws a World Tag Team Title run? It'd been nice for the record books.
The Television Title could be a great tool but I have no idea what they are doing with it. Who is Gunner & why is he the TV Champ? Can't Pope, Joe, Daniels be feuding over it?
Once again, here we go with the HOME GROWN talent. Well, to be honest, there is none for TNA. Most of their stars are from NWA/WCW, WWE, ROH, etc. I used to watch TNA, and sometimes I will come back to see what is going on, but other than that, nothing. Yes, we know Vince could care less about TNA, and Hogan wants to get out there, but like someone said, TNA doesn't have the money like Billionaire Ted did. Them taking baby steps will, eventually work, but for one, they need to get out of the impact zone, but again, it comes down to money. Also, Russo is crap and everyone knows this. Why he is still there, is beyond me. Anyhow, TNA will get it, if not, they will shut down and get bought out, but not anytime soon
Zeven_Zion
King Of The Ring
In the end, the whole WCW/TNA argument, or even the WWE/TNA argument is nothing but unnecessary bitching and moaning. That's all it is. The people who spew that crap are desperate for negative ammo. Period.
If you expect any wrestling company to not sign the people TNA signed, then you're an idiot, and if the company doesn't sign them - they're idiots. This argument is obsolete, it's not valid, it's absolutely stupid.
It would be stupid on TNA's part if they signed freakin' Jamie Noble and made him Champion, but look at the guys they signed and kept.
Hogan, Bischoff, Jeff Hardy, Anderson, Pope, Kendrick, Team 3D, Christy Hemme, Kaz, MATTHEW, Angle, Morgan, Mickie James, Tara, Ric Flair, RVD, Winter, Dreamer.
The only person out all of those guys that sucks is Dreamer. Everybody else can and has contributed to the overall quality of the product in a positive way, sometimes more than "home grown" talent. In the end, you can't compare home grown talent to former WWE wrestlers because they're both pretty much even, some of the home grown talent are better, some are not, some of the WWE guys are better, some or not, but they all help the product no matter where they worked and in the end that's all TNA cares about.
As far as the comparison to WCW goes, well they do resemble it in terms of the way things are handled creatively, and who said that's a bad thing?
See, when any company is compared to WCW people immediately think it's an insult because WCW went out of business. Now, it would've been a REAL insult if WCW went out of business because of how crappy their product was, people lost interest and the show was taken off the air. However, as we all know, that's not what happened. There were a lot of other factors that led to the death of WCW which didn't come about until Vince McMahon bought it. We don't know how WCW would've turned out if McMahon never bought it, we could still have it around these days and the business wouldn't suck. That's one option.
So when someone says "TNA is like WCW", people immediately take it as an insult, but I don't. WCW is the only company that was able to knock the WWF on their rainbow colored asses, came in, raised hell, broke all the unwritten laws of wrestling, introduced a completely new way to look at pro wrestling and if it wasn't for WCW we would've never gotten the best era in the business that we all love. Don't forget that if there was no WCW, there would be no Attitude Era, and without an Attitude Era there's a high possibility WWF wouldn't have had their Triple H's, Austin's, Rock's and the people who really made that company into something different.
TNA is my favorite company, and it's being compared to a company that embodies everything TNA is striving to be. How the fuck is that bad? If irony decides to play with TNA, have it grow to a giant, beat WWE and then go out of business but lead to a new era of awesome kick-ass wrestling I'd be fine with it. In the end, all I care about is watching some awesome product every Thursday or Monday. The only way we'll all get to have two companies produce something exciting is for TNA to grow. Bitching about it won't help. Supporting it even though you're not a huge fan will. It's not like the IWC has helped TNA's reputation. You really love the business? Stop acting like you know everything about it and somehow turn into a fan again.
If you expect any wrestling company to not sign the people TNA signed, then you're an idiot, and if the company doesn't sign them - they're idiots. This argument is obsolete, it's not valid, it's absolutely stupid.
It would be stupid on TNA's part if they signed freakin' Jamie Noble and made him Champion, but look at the guys they signed and kept.
Hogan, Bischoff, Jeff Hardy, Anderson, Pope, Kendrick, Team 3D, Christy Hemme, Kaz, MATTHEW, Angle, Morgan, Mickie James, Tara, Ric Flair, RVD, Winter, Dreamer.
The only person out all of those guys that sucks is Dreamer. Everybody else can and has contributed to the overall quality of the product in a positive way, sometimes more than "home grown" talent. In the end, you can't compare home grown talent to former WWE wrestlers because they're both pretty much even, some of the home grown talent are better, some are not, some of the WWE guys are better, some or not, but they all help the product no matter where they worked and in the end that's all TNA cares about.
As far as the comparison to WCW goes, well they do resemble it in terms of the way things are handled creatively, and who said that's a bad thing?
See, when any company is compared to WCW people immediately think it's an insult because WCW went out of business. Now, it would've been a REAL insult if WCW went out of business because of how crappy their product was, people lost interest and the show was taken off the air. However, as we all know, that's not what happened. There were a lot of other factors that led to the death of WCW which didn't come about until Vince McMahon bought it. We don't know how WCW would've turned out if McMahon never bought it, we could still have it around these days and the business wouldn't suck. That's one option.
So when someone says "TNA is like WCW", people immediately take it as an insult, but I don't. WCW is the only company that was able to knock the WWF on their rainbow colored asses, came in, raised hell, broke all the unwritten laws of wrestling, introduced a completely new way to look at pro wrestling and if it wasn't for WCW we would've never gotten the best era in the business that we all love. Don't forget that if there was no WCW, there would be no Attitude Era, and without an Attitude Era there's a high possibility WWF wouldn't have had their Triple H's, Austin's, Rock's and the people who really made that company into something different.
TNA is my favorite company, and it's being compared to a company that embodies everything TNA is striving to be. How the fuck is that bad? If irony decides to play with TNA, have it grow to a giant, beat WWE and then go out of business but lead to a new era of awesome kick-ass wrestling I'd be fine with it. In the end, all I care about is watching some awesome product every Thursday or Monday. The only way we'll all get to have two companies produce something exciting is for TNA to grow. Bitching about it won't help. Supporting it even though you're not a huge fan will. It's not like the IWC has helped TNA's reputation. You really love the business? Stop acting like you know everything about it and somehow turn into a fan again.
Jack-Hammer
YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
There are certain parallels between WCW & TNA, at least on the surface, that can't be brushed aside as irrelevant simply because one doesn't like it.
For instance, it's true that TNA does aquire a lot of released WWE talent. It's also true that the major storyline in TNA for the past several years, namely the big faction takeover of the company, has primarily been woven around factions comprised mostly of former WWE & WCW wrestlers. Or at least the primary wrestlers involved, the ones that cut all the promos & whatnot, have been former WWE & WCW wrestlers. Also, like WCW, the majority of the main event spots have been dominated by former WWE & WCW guys. Since 2002, there've been 15 different wrestlers to win a World Championship in TNA. Of those 15, 11 of them became stars in either WWE, WCW, ECW or some combination of all of the above before their arrival in TNA. The top heels in TNA right now, I should say the ones who are easily the top heels, are Hulk Hogan, Eric Bischoff & Ric Flair, all former WWE/WCW talent. The head of TNA Creative right now is Vince Russo and Russo has used a lot of storylines & general ideas in TNA that he used in WCW, the most notable I think being the fact that TNA keeps doing the same big faction storyline over and over. Even the commentators for TNA, Taz & Mike Tenay, became well known in WCW & WWE as commentators. With so much emphasis placed on talent that were stars long before they came to TNA, there are times in which TNA looks to rely on already established stars rather than trying to create stars of their own. It's true that the likes of AJ Styles & Samoa Joe are stars in TNA but they seem to be the exception rather than the rule. And since the influx of established stars to TNA, beginning with Kurt Angle about 4.5 years ago, TNA hasn't really created any stars, which is similar to what we saw take place in WCW at least to some degree. Most of the stars in WCW were guys that came from the WWF or were older WCW wrestlers that had already been stars for a long time. Not all of them, but most of them.
However, I believe that one reason why many compare TNA to WCW is because they're expecting TNA to go tits up like WCW did or, unfortunately, they want to see that happen. While I'm not particularly fond of most of what's going on in TNA, TNA's not going anywhere anytime soon. I don't want to see TNA go out of business, I want to see it get better. WCW's failure was a combination of things. For one, WCW was beyond abysmal the last couple of years it was around. Quality programming in WCW was a thing of the past. Secondly, the honchos at Time Warner simply didn't want WCW on their channel. Even during the time of the Vince Russo era in WCW, Nitro still drew pretty good sized audiences. Even at their worst during this time, they outdrew TNA by a large degree. TNA is in no danger of going anywhere at this time. They have a devoted 1.5 million viewers that tune in each week and there's a lot to be said about that.
For instance, it's true that TNA does aquire a lot of released WWE talent. It's also true that the major storyline in TNA for the past several years, namely the big faction takeover of the company, has primarily been woven around factions comprised mostly of former WWE & WCW wrestlers. Or at least the primary wrestlers involved, the ones that cut all the promos & whatnot, have been former WWE & WCW wrestlers. Also, like WCW, the majority of the main event spots have been dominated by former WWE & WCW guys. Since 2002, there've been 15 different wrestlers to win a World Championship in TNA. Of those 15, 11 of them became stars in either WWE, WCW, ECW or some combination of all of the above before their arrival in TNA. The top heels in TNA right now, I should say the ones who are easily the top heels, are Hulk Hogan, Eric Bischoff & Ric Flair, all former WWE/WCW talent. The head of TNA Creative right now is Vince Russo and Russo has used a lot of storylines & general ideas in TNA that he used in WCW, the most notable I think being the fact that TNA keeps doing the same big faction storyline over and over. Even the commentators for TNA, Taz & Mike Tenay, became well known in WCW & WWE as commentators. With so much emphasis placed on talent that were stars long before they came to TNA, there are times in which TNA looks to rely on already established stars rather than trying to create stars of their own. It's true that the likes of AJ Styles & Samoa Joe are stars in TNA but they seem to be the exception rather than the rule. And since the influx of established stars to TNA, beginning with Kurt Angle about 4.5 years ago, TNA hasn't really created any stars, which is similar to what we saw take place in WCW at least to some degree. Most of the stars in WCW were guys that came from the WWF or were older WCW wrestlers that had already been stars for a long time. Not all of them, but most of them.
However, I believe that one reason why many compare TNA to WCW is because they're expecting TNA to go tits up like WCW did or, unfortunately, they want to see that happen. While I'm not particularly fond of most of what's going on in TNA, TNA's not going anywhere anytime soon. I don't want to see TNA go out of business, I want to see it get better. WCW's failure was a combination of things. For one, WCW was beyond abysmal the last couple of years it was around. Quality programming in WCW was a thing of the past. Secondly, the honchos at Time Warner simply didn't want WCW on their channel. Even during the time of the Vince Russo era in WCW, Nitro still drew pretty good sized audiences. Even at their worst during this time, they outdrew TNA by a large degree. TNA is in no danger of going anywhere at this time. They have a devoted 1.5 million viewers that tune in each week and there's a lot to be said about that.
There are a lot of problems with how TNA does things but one thing is that when TNA now or WCW back then grabs a WWE talent they basically have them play the same character they played in WWE. There is always that feeling that they could not "make it" in the big time any more so here they are in this new place.
Kurt Angle is about the only one with the talent and charisma to overcome this. He is great and people know it. There was nothing different in the character Jeff Hardy, Christian, Ken (Kennedy) Anderson, etc. played when they came from WWE to TNA.
You look at the Dudleys amazing change in creative direction going from one being named "Bubba Ray" to being named "Brother Ray" and generating the kind of excitement of a quilting bee.
That gives them the feeling of seeing "Scotty Too Hotty" wrestle an independent show at a high school as he still does the same stuff he did back in the day.
That is why Kharma has already created more buzz than Awesome Kong ever did (she is the same person) but is already making an impression.
WWE for the most part does not even treat guys who come from other places like they had a career before coming in. Until TNA has the confidence that they can have ideas of their own they will just be looked on as small time.
Kurt Angle is about the only one with the talent and charisma to overcome this. He is great and people know it. There was nothing different in the character Jeff Hardy, Christian, Ken (Kennedy) Anderson, etc. played when they came from WWE to TNA.
You look at the Dudleys amazing change in creative direction going from one being named "Bubba Ray" to being named "Brother Ray" and generating the kind of excitement of a quilting bee.
That gives them the feeling of seeing "Scotty Too Hotty" wrestle an independent show at a high school as he still does the same stuff he did back in the day.
That is why Kharma has already created more buzz than Awesome Kong ever did (she is the same person) but is already making an impression.
WWE for the most part does not even treat guys who come from other places like they had a career before coming in. Until TNA has the confidence that they can have ideas of their own they will just be looked on as small time.
Mr_Ratings
Pre-Show Stalwart
Not complete superstars? Jeff, Anderson, and RVD were main eventers in the WWE. Jeffs popularity was BARELY 2nd behind Cena. Oh and lets not forget Kurt Angle everybody. Those guys were complete superstars. And remember Scott Hall like Anderson, never won the world title in WWE either.
Mr_Ratings
Pre-Show Stalwart
Theres no difference between Kong and Kharma. She created a buzz in TNA, but the ONLY reason why shes creating a giant buzz right now is because she has a larger fanbase.
Zeven I love your posts but I do need to clear one thing up cause I remember it very well. Ted Turner while getting divorced from Jane Fonda Sold off His Media outlets to AOL making it AOL Time Warner. Now AOL announced right after the media buyout that They would no longer be broadcasting WCW on their stations and WCW was for sale. Bishoff and a group of investors were first out to purchase it but his investors saw how much money it was loosing....income verses expenses for the high salaries...and said nope never mind. So Vince came along and said HEY I will buy WCW along with all media associated with it aka the Library. So AOL/TW sold it to him. That is how it went down
As for TNA it was a creation of Jerry and Jeff Jarret to do a PPV type show only for wrestling as they BSed during a fishing trip and thats how it came to be. Later on Jerry sold it to Panda Energy and thats how it goes.
As for ECW Heyman admitted that for years VKM had been slipping him cash to help ECW keep going but he just couldnt make ends meet then WCW took his top stars and even Vince helping under the table and sending stars to INVADE ECW it help and so he asked Vince if he would just buy it and all the tape library. End of ECW
TheLoneLegend
Dark Match Winner
These are some of the WORST...NO...These are the WORST possible comparisons I have ever seen. Hmmm where to start....
1. Kevin Nash in his first stint in WCW was Vinnie Vegas, Oz, and Master Blaster Steel. Nash never got over with any of those gimmicks at all. Nash was still a nobody when he arrived in the WWF. Thus making Nash a WWF made star.
2. I hope you mean"Mean" Mark Callous; not even sure where you pulled the last name out of that you posted, cause that's what his name was in WCW. His stint in WCW was also less then 6 months. Again this is a WWF made star.
3. Austin and Pillman could of been Main Eventers in WCW and should of been. Hell Pillman basically was during his stint in the Horsemen, but the thing that killed them both was Eric Bischoff. He didn't think either of them could put people in seats. Funny how Austin went on to become the biggest superstar ever in wrestling history, under the tutelage of Vince McMahon and the WWF. Pillman unfortunately left us all to soon...RIP.
4. Again where the fuck do you come up with the names? Hunter Hearst Helmsley the Ringmaster ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS?! First off he was known as Terra Ryzing and Jean-Paul Lévesque in his one year stint in WCW. He came into the WWF as a nobody just like Taker and Nash, and like both of them was made in the WWF.
5. Foley I'll give you credit on, it's the ONLY wrestler that you mention that you even happen to manage to get right.
Now you can argue and say "Oh well they were in WCW orginally!" Yeah and none of them were anything but card fillers. They were nobodies during their time there and it took a GENIUS like Vince McMahon to find a niche for these guys and to make them into something.
Honestly, other then a few internet "stars" and a few exceptions like AJ Styles, Sting, Ric Flair, Robert Roode (I can name maybe a dozen more) almost every big name in wrestling in the past 20 years is thanks to Vince McMahon.
There definitely are a lot of similarities in the two companies, mostly because of the large number of former WCW wrestlers in TNA currently, and because the of the way the show is produced/run. No need to restate those points any further since many others have already said what needs to be said there.
Two things that I found to be great points though:
1. Zeven is right on the money about comparing any company to WCW. It immediately raises a negative connotation. "Since WCW ultimately failed, anyone who compares anything to it is saying that thing is going to fail as well." That type of thinking. As he said, though, WCW was the only company to challenge and knock off WWF/E, if only for a short time. All our favorite memories, the Attitude Era came about as a result of that competition. So it shouldn't be a bad thing to be compared to WCW. They were the best for a period of time.
2. Like others have said, if you want the overall state of wrestling to improve, don't hope for TNA to fail, hope for it to succeed, expand and get bigger. If TNA can get to a level close to where WCW used to be, it will be better for everyone. There is a lot that they do wrong, for sure, but try to focus on some of the things they do right, and hope they can do more of those things.
Two things that I found to be great points though:
1. Zeven is right on the money about comparing any company to WCW. It immediately raises a negative connotation. "Since WCW ultimately failed, anyone who compares anything to it is saying that thing is going to fail as well." That type of thinking. As he said, though, WCW was the only company to challenge and knock off WWF/E, if only for a short time. All our favorite memories, the Attitude Era came about as a result of that competition. So it shouldn't be a bad thing to be compared to WCW. They were the best for a period of time.
2. Like others have said, if you want the overall state of wrestling to improve, don't hope for TNA to fail, hope for it to succeed, expand and get bigger. If TNA can get to a level close to where WCW used to be, it will be better for everyone. There is a lot that they do wrong, for sure, but try to focus on some of the things they do right, and hope they can do more of those things.
ray kidman
Dark Match Winner
there are many thing that reminds me of wcw the fact that they wrestle sting hogan many of the stars vince let go i just feel if they bring in the crusier wieghts and i would to see a big mane star leave the wwe and cross the line
I forgot his last name and didn't remember HHH 's name there and it was early in the morning and sorry if I messed them up. I never paid attention to either of them so I guess it goes to show how much they did in the WCW..
But your answer back to me is making the same point I was making so what's your point? The first line in my post was about wrestlers who weren't appreciated in the WCW and became stars elsewhere. Thus why I asked if they ever heard the saying one mans garbage is another mans gold. I never said any of them got over in the WCW actually I said quite the opposite.. With the exception of Benoit, Jericho, Eddie Guerrero and Mick Foley whom I think WCW fans liked but the company let them walk which was a shame.
What I'm saying is I don't mind TNA signing people like Elijah Burke, Matt Morgan and Mr. Anderson as even though WWE gave up on them who knows when one of them might end up getting over. As for old WWE stars past their prime I prefer they stay away from them.
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
They're similar, but TNA is in far better shape than WCW in its dying days were for a multitude of reasons that I'm not going to get into other than one: TNA has a coherent story.
I rarely agree with what TNA does, but the show makes sense for the most part. There's a (mostly) logical path from thing A to thing B, and that is what makes TNA a better thing than WCW from say 1999 on. In WCW people retired about 4-5 times a year and the Commissioner would literally be changed more than one time a week and people were randomly around with no explanation at all to their storylines and the titles were completely worthless. That's a second big thing TNA has done: the title reigns mean something for the most part. Anderson whines most of the time, but he wants the title no matter what. That's very important and it's a big thing that sets TNA apart.
There are obvious similarities to them, but if you think TNA is making the same mistakes you're very mistaken I assure you.
I rarely agree with what TNA does, but the show makes sense for the most part. There's a (mostly) logical path from thing A to thing B, and that is what makes TNA a better thing than WCW from say 1999 on. In WCW people retired about 4-5 times a year and the Commissioner would literally be changed more than one time a week and people were randomly around with no explanation at all to their storylines and the titles were completely worthless. That's a second big thing TNA has done: the title reigns mean something for the most part. Anderson whines most of the time, but he wants the title no matter what. That's very important and it's a big thing that sets TNA apart.
There are obvious similarities to them, but if you think TNA is making the same mistakes you're very mistaken I assure you.
Unless I'm in the bizzaro world, Hunter Hearst Helmsely was always a WWF name, and The Ringmaster was Stone Cold before he became Stone Cold.
Now back to topic, one of the similarites I can't stand with TNA and WCW was bringing that no talent, rip-off hack that makes all the Intro Music. Are you kidding me? He/They are even ripping off thier own rip-offs now.
Sorry dude, but that's totally asinine.
You don't think WCW was banking on what Hogan, Savage, Hall, Nash, Bret Hart, and others accomplished as WWF talent when they signed them? The Outsiders may have changed gimmicks when they came to WCW but the shock value of seeing "Razor and Diesel" in WCW was still the driving force in the early hype they gained. How is that any different from TNA trying to bring in guys who had WWE exposure?
It's not like Stone Cold and The Rock were available to be signed, dude. Comparing what TNA's done to what WCW did is so unfair because the same opportunities haven't been there. But that said, I find it funny you left Kurt Angle, Christian, RVD, Bobby Lashley, and even Mick Foley off your list of TNA's talent acquisitions. Your argument sounded so much better with just the likes of Pope and Kendrick, didn't it?