Muse: A Lost Cause?

[Barbedwire Ropes]

This thread has been started by request and it has been made to discuss the current state of the band Muse.

Now there is no denying that at one point, Muse was a force in the Neo-Prog Rock world. They had the underground scene in a frenzy not seen in ages and people all over the world were ranting and raving over this three piece from Devon, England. They soon gained exposure and popularity through their constant work ethic and the release of some critically acclaimed albums.

They have released 5 studio albums, along with a handful of demos and live materials. Their studio albums include, 'Showbiz'(1999), 'Origin Of Symmetry'(2001), 'Absolution'(2003), 'Black Holes and Revelations'(2006) and the most recent being this year's 'The Resistance'.

Many, fans and casuals alike, have claimed that Absolution is a masterwork of this generation and it was without a doubt, the album that really pushed them into the spotlight and showcased their talents. But from Absolution onwards they seemed to be starting on a slow downward spiral.

'Black Holes and Revelations' was seen as good, but also a let-down to those expecting a step-up from 'Absolution''s level of quality. Though, people were happy of the effort provided and were greatly anticipating the release of their next album.

To say the hype for 'The Resistance' was massive is an under-statement. Radio stations all over the world were playing short, 30 second clips and the band themselves launched online contests in order to promote the album. Matthew Bellamy (lead vocalist, lead guitarist, and pianist) was also promoting, through interviews, and epic three part song titled "Exogenesis: Symphony" saying it was going to be there "career defining statement". People were on the verge of rioting up until the day of the release. But upon release, a tranquill silence fell over the world of all things Muse.

Its without a doubt that 'The Resistance' was a huge letdown for most fans of Muse. Early reviews pegged the album as a disaster and an abandonment of the loyal Muse fanbase. Gone were the things Muse fans loved most and were in turn replaced with modern pop radio jingles and over-produced blandness.

Where as Muse used to be a staple amongst Progressive Rock junkies they were now nothing more than another radio pop-rock band trying to impress the hipster age. They have not even been able to crack the prestigiuos Prog Archives Top 100 albums of the year list, where as they used to be staples.

Muse are now the main musical focus of the movie series "Twilight", which was another step done in order to abandon thier once loyal, dedicated fans. No longer are they the underground sensations that left the world begging for more.

So what are your thoughts? Is there still anything left to be excited for from this band or are they a lost cause?

 

[Blade]

Ok, let's do this.

This thread has been started by request and it has been made to discuss the current state of the band Muse.

Wahey!

Now there is no denying that at one point, Muse was a force in the Neo-Prog Rock world.

At one point? Muse have yet another sold out show in Wembley Stadium coming up next year. Not to mention playing to huge sold out arenas in Europe which they are currently doing. Also, the debate on whether Muse are New Prog or Neo-Prog... They have the stage shows of a Neo band, yet the music of a New Prog band. Whatever, I think genre labelling is moronic But that's neither here nor there. Muse are still the biggest band in "Prog" unless Radiohead release another OK Computer or Coheed and Cambria suddenly become mainstream.

They had the underground scene in a frenzy not seen in ages and people all over the world were ranting and raving over this three piece from Devon, England. They soon gained exposure and popularity through their constant work ethic and the release of some critically acclaimed albums.

Actually, they garnered their exposure from everyone calling them Radiohead rip-offs. Simply put, they were at a much lower point back in 1999 than they are now.

Many, fans and casuals alike, have claimed that Absolution is a masterwork of this generation and it was without a doubt, the album that really pushed them into the spotlight and showcased their talents. But from Absolution onwards they seemed to be starting on a slow downward spiral.

'Black Holes and Revelations' was seen as good, but also a let-down to those expecting a step-up from 'Absolution''s level of quality. Though, people were happy of the effort provided and were greatly anticipating the release of their next album.

Where are you getting this stuff from? Black Holes and Revelations was loved by fans, loved by critics and nominated for a Mercury Music Prize, widely considered as one of the most prestigious awards in the music industry. Black Holes was more critically successful than Absolution, having 2 more points on aggregate reviews according to Metacritic, which means alot considering Black Holes got more reviews. And it was more commercially sucessful than Absolution.

To say the hype for 'The Resistance' was massive is an under-statement. Radio stations all over the world were playing short, 30 second clips and the band themselves launched online contests in order to promote the album.

The hype for Black Holes and Revelations was actually much bigger. The hype for The Resistance was rather lacking, I found. They did the treasure hunt for one of the album songs is a Muse tradtion, they've done it with every album since Absolution.

Matthew Bellamy (lead vocalist, lead guitarist, and pianist) was also promoting, through interviews, and epic three part song titled "Exogenesis: Symphony" saying it was going to be there "career defining statement". People were on the verge of rioting up until the day of the release. But upon release, a tranquill silence fell over the world of all things Muse.

Exgenesis is considered to be one of Bellamy's greatest works. But continue.

Its without a doubt that 'The Resistance' was a huge letdown for most fans of Muse. Early reviews pegged the album as a disaster and an abandonment of the loyal Muse fanbase. Gone were the things Muse fans loved most and were in turn replaced with modern pop radio jingles and over-produced blandness.

Early reviews were extremely postive, actually. Allmusic called it a "fantastic record." The New York Times called it "apologetically and ambitiously beautiful." But I think Uncut were spot on when their critic said it was "bonkers--hilarious, maddening, ridiculous and slightly shit--yet never dull."

But in terms of supposedly abandoning their fans, that is utter bullshit. Muse's original critical acclaim for Origin of Symmetry, Hullabaloo and Absolution came from their experimentation. Alternate, Metal, Blues, Classical, Eastern music etc etc... What The Resistance was, was Bellamy trying to experiment again. But this time he just didn't do it properly. It was Bellamy trying to give the fans what they wanted, but not being able to deliver this time. He let down fans, but that matters to him. He didn't do it on purpose to sell more records, and if there's anyone who's not about the money or rock star ego, it's Matt Bellamy. The guy spends huge amounts of money on their live shows and website. So, assuming you're implying they made the album full of "modern pop radio jingles" because of the money? Yeah, right.

Not to mention, since when is a 15 minute symphony a radio jingle?

And lastly, I would assume that their catchiest songs are most radio friendly, no? Time is Running Out is easily more catchy than anything on The Resistance.

Where as Muse used to be a staple amongst Progressive Rock junkies they were now nothing more than another radio pop-rock band trying to impress the hipster age.

Wow, where to start on that one sentence. Well firstly, if you consider Uprising and Undisclosed Desires "pop-rock", then you really need your perceptions realigned. Or do you just consider anything that's played on the radio to be "pop-rock"? Anything that's popular? Whatever.

Can we please stop with the genre elitism of this debate? Great music completely obliterates and perception of genre.

They have not even been able to crack the prestigiuos Prog Archives Top 100 albums of the year list, where as they used to be staples.

Err... Right.

Muse are now the main musical focus of the movie series "Twilight", which was another step done in order to abandon thier once loyal, dedicated fans. No longer are they the underground sensations that left the world begging for more.

I'm going to say to you again what I said to you in the Metallica thread. A band cannot sell-out until they mock stuff that is different from them. Muse have never mocked Twilight. They've never mocked any rock bands that are different from them. They, unlike you, actually respect any music that shows creativity. Do you know what selling out is? Going against your principals to make money.
Metallica were able to sell out. They dug themselves into a hole with their metal elitism. They spoke out against playing gigs with bands that weren't strictly metal and they spoke out against music videos. That's what they considered to be selling out and therefore, they sold out when they did those things.
Muse don't care. They want to make music and they want people to hear it. They're not selling out because they've never spoke out on making radio friendly songs. They haven't gone against their principals. They haven't sold out. And they certainly haven't sold out because their The Resistance was different from other albums. Especially considering every Muse album was different.
If Muse's next album was, again, completely different but full of great songs and fans didn't like it just cause it was different, then fuck those fans. If they want to ignore the fact that it's great music just cause it's different then fuck them, that's the kind of moronic elitism that I despise. I'll say it again, truly great music obliterates any perception of genre.

Yes, Muse made a mediocre album. But it wasn't mediocre cause they supposedly "sold out" and made "Radio Jingles." It's cause Matt Bellamy went a bit too far with his experimenting, and he knows it. He's admitted us. But all his fans forgive the bad album. Hell, if they're still putting on live performances like this:

[YOUTUBE]CgX8eF8glCU[/YOUTUBE]

And entertaining their fans like this:

[YOUTUBE]o3T2sOOtNlw[/YOUTUBE]

Who are we to stay mad at them?

 

[Barbedwire Ropes]

Muse are still the biggest band in "Prog"

Well I dont really know about that one. Personally I'd say Queen, or Genesis or Pink Floyd is still much bigger than Muse. Even in thier current states.
So nice try on that one.

Not to mention, since when is a 15 minute symphony a radio jingle?

15 mintutes is short in today's standards of "Prog". Also, its not actually 15 minutes in length, its split up into three seperate tracks. So I wouldnt praise them to much on that front.

Listen to Dream Theater's "A Change of Seasons" which is 23 minutes long, without any track breaks or Dream Theater's "Octavarium" which is almost 25 minutes long. But since we are including long songs that feature track breaks we mind was well mention "In the Presence of Enemies" (26 minutes), "Six Degress of Inner Turbulence" (42 minutes) and even "Metropolis Pt.2" which is a brisk 75 minutes in length. Then we have the band Redmeption which wrote the epic "Sapphire", without track breaks, that runs for about 46 minutes. Then there is also Porcupine Tree whos latest offering "The Incident" is 55 minutes long. I could name another 15 songs or so, but I have already proven my point. Bellamy needs to get off his high horse for writing a 15 minute long song already, especially when the entire things sounds exactly the same from start to finish.


The fact of the matter is, I used to be a fan of Muse...I dont think I was on the absurd, extreme level of "fanboy" that you are but I was a fan. But they let me, and every Muse fan I know personally, down. The Resistance was a massive disappointment and its embarassing. Its also embarassing walking through a supermarket or mall or on the trains and seeing 12 year olds girls who are most likely fans of shit like Britney Spears and The Black Eyed Peas wearing Muse shirts, knowing that I used to be a fan. I wouldnt even call 'The Resistance' mediocre. Its a tragedy.

 

[Shadowmancer]

you want to talk prog, try taking Porcupine Tree with "the Incident" The first song is on the first disc and is 55 minutes long. That is old school style prog.

Is Muse the biggest Prog Band in the world today, I would say yes. Are they the best, I would say no. Because you still have King Crimson running around, Tool is still around, Mastodon are just starting to hit their stride, Porcupine Tree are going from Strength to strength and Opeth are the rumbling juggernaut that will kick most people's arses if they listen to it.

As for the Resistance, what is wrong with it. Not a lot, while yes some fans may be pissed off with it, so what there are those that think it is a well put together piece of work that deserves praise. I see the mention of Dream Theater they cut their epic songs up, most bands do. I can only think of one band off the top of my head where the song is not cut up in recent times and that is Symphony X with the song The Odyssey from the album of the same name.

but to get back on topic, sure Muse releases singles, unfortunately that is the way that the music industry drives in. I know that Britain has severe restrictions on what a single is, being under 5 minutes being the big one.

I can actually say this right now you aren't a fan of Muse full stop you were a passing casual listener, a fan is one that will keep listening and accept that bands change and experiment when you are dealing with prog. 12 year old girls are listening to Prog, good that means they aren't going to be listening to utter shit that brings society as a whole down. ie Lady Gaga, PussyCat Dolls, Chris Brown, Rihanna and most of the other crap that is played on the radio.

 

[Blade]

I though we started this debate on the premise of Muse supposedly "selling out"? But you seemed to ignore everything I said about that in your post... Hmmm.

Well I dont really know about that one. Personally I'd say Queen, or Genesis or Pink Floyd is still much bigger than Muse. Even in thier current states.
So nice try on that one.

In terms of the biggest prog band on the planet right now, yes Muse are. Queen's new line-up has done anything and the other bands you mentioned aren't even together. So, in terms of right now, Muse are easily the biggest prog band on the planet.

15 mintutes is short in today's standards of "Prog". Also, its not actually 15 minutes in length, its split up into three seperate tracks. So I wouldnt praise them to much on that front.

So what if it's split up into 3? Plays and films traditionally have three acts, but that doesn't mean they're 3 different plays/movies.

And it's a symphony. Do you know what a symphony is? Here, I've dug up a definition for you:

"an elaborate instrumental composition in three or more movements"

Listen to Dream Theater's "A Change of Seasons" which is 23 minutes long, without any track breaks or Dream Theater's "Octavarium" which is almost 25 minutes long. But since we are including long songs that feature track breaks we mind was well mention "In the Presence of Enemies" (26 minutes), "Six Degress of Inner Turbulence" (42 minutes) and even "Metropolis Pt.2" which is a brisk 75 minutes in length. Then we have the band Redmeption which wrote the epic "Sapphire", without track breaks, that runs for about 46 minutes. Then there is also Porcupine Tree whos latest offering "The Incident" is 55 minutes long. I could name another 15 songs or so, but I have already proven my point. Bellamy needs to get off his high horse for writing a 15 minute long song already, especially when the entire things sounds exactly the same from start to finish.

Bellamy isn't on his "high horse" because of the length of the song. He's proud of it because it took him 5 years to create and he composed every single instrument himself and it turned out really well. If you did that and weren't extremely proud of yourself, then you have severe severe self esteem issues!

The fact of the matter is, I used to be a fan of Muse...I dont think I was on the absurd, extreme level of "fanboy" that you are

Tut tut, trolling!

but I was a fan. But they let me, and every Muse fan I know personally, down. The Resistance was a massive disappointment and its embarassing. Its also embarassing walking through a supermarket or mall or on the trains and seeing 12 year olds girls who are most likely fans of shit like Britney Spears and The Black Eyed Peas wearing Muse shirts, knowing that I used to be a fan. I wouldnt even call 'The Resistance' mediocre. Its a tragedy.

So what? Do you hate and look down on anyone who has different music taste than you? Or do you just hate and look down upon 12 year olds? I liked Muse when I was 12, hmm, what does that say about me?

Yes, the Resistance was disappointing. I'll be the first to admit that. But they didn't do it on purpose and they didn't do it to sell records. They made a bad record, and they should be forgiven for it. You're drastically overexaggerating how bad the album was, which makes you sound like such a poser, no offense. Cause the "cool" thing these days is to bash The Resistance. But it actually wasn't that bad an album, and they should be forgiven simply because Matt Bellamy still has some good songs in him and their live performances are still the best around.

So unless you come up with an actually decent response, this debate is over.