More Birther Fun

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

I cut up a poem called "The Grandeur of God" and turned it in to a poem about slavery. It was originally going to be "The Grandeur of Breasts", but Mrs. Krause made sure to tell us that they had to be school-appropriate. :/ Wait, what are we talking about?

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Black≠African American. You can be African American without being black, and you can be black without being African American.

Uh, I think that's what I just said.

Just because he doesn't meet your standards of what being "African-American" means, that doesn't mean he isn't black. And moving past all that, there are plenty of things that Obama does that one might classify as culturally black, like his love of basketball, rap music, etc.

Are you fucking kidding me?! Do you get your ideas of what black people are like from watching the NBA and reading Vibe? I didn't make a single reference to what forms of entertainment and sport black people prefer. I was referring to the struggles many of them have faced throughout American history, not to mention the struggles that they still do face (except the struggles they now face arise more from economic inequality and lack of opportunities than from being black).

But when you're talking about race in particular, you're talking about skin color, and his skin color is definitely black.

Dude, black can refer to either race or ethnicity. I probably should have made myself clearer, but this is something that we learn in like tenth grade. It's quite obvious from the context I used it in that black was meant to mean ethnicity and not race.

And who are you to say he doesn't understand the historical struggle of the blacks in America? This seems very presumptuous, and I wonder where you're getting this idea from.

Hmm...let's see:

1) He was primarily raised in his Hawaii by his white grandparents; he attended private school all throughout his upbringing.

2) He attended a private liberal arts college before transferring to an Ivy League school.

3) He's never been in anything more than an executive capacity in any community organization that he's worked for.

Immersion is necessary to understand and and empathize with any ethnic group. Clearly this is something that Obama has failed to do. I understand why you fail to see this, though, since basketball and rap music are the first things that came to your mind when you thought black.

 

[JGlass]

Uh, I think that's what I just said.

Not really, but I could see why you think you did. I guess when you said "When I think black, I think African-American" that's what you were getting at? Fair enough.

Are you fucking kidding me?! Do you get your ideas of what black people are like from watching the NBA and reading Vibe? I didn't make a single reference to what forms of entertainment and sport black people prefer. I was referring to the struggles many of them have faced throughout American history, not to mention the struggles that they still do face (except the struggles they now face arise more from economic inequality and lack of opportunities than from being black).

So are you going to sit here and tell me that basketball and rap music aren't part of black culture? It's worth bringing up when you're discussing someone's "blackness", even if it's not what you're getting at.

Dude, black can refer to either race or ethnicity. I probably should have made myself clearer, but this is something that we learn in like tenth grade. It's quite obvious from the context I used it in that black was meant to mean ethnicity and not race.

Once again, fair enough.

Hmm...let's see:

1) He was primarily raised in his Hawaii by his white grandparents; he attended private school all throughout his upbringing.

2) He attended a private liberal arts college before transferring to an Ivy League school.

3) He's never been in anything more than an executive capacity in any community organization that he's worked for.

So because he had a few good opportunities (many of which he worked hard for) we can automatically assume that he doesn't understand the struggle black people face in America? He's also talked about struggling with multiracial heritage which, while very different from the historical black struggle we're talking about, is still an issue many black people face today.

As for the community organizer bit, let's not pretend that he sat in an office all day as he had lower level employees do all the street level work. Obama got out on the streets and helped the people himself.

And finally, he worked as a civil rights attorney. If he didn't have to deal with any form of black struggle before, he got to see it first hand there. At the very least he understands the plight, even if he never felt it himself.

Immersion is necessary to understand and and empathize with any ethnic group. Clearly this is something that Obama has failed to do. I understand why you fail to see this, though, since basketball and rap music are the first things that came to your mind when you thought black.

One could argue that being a community organizer and civil rights attorney is immersion, but whatever. And the first thing I think of when I think black people is black skin, then basketball and rap.

It's a touchy issue because I HATED when during the election racist pricks would try to convince themselves, "He's not the first black president, he's mixed race." However, I don't think that's what you're trying to say. What you're saying is he's not black like Wayne Brady isn't black, which is less offensive.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Not really, but I could see why you think you did. I guess when you said "When I think black, I think African-American" that's what you were getting at? Fair enough.

This is what I said:

When I think black, I think African-American. You could only call Obama African-American in the most literal sense

Here's what you said:

Black≠African American. You can be African American without being black, and you can be black without being African American.

I agree with this because I don't think Obama's black yet I can't deny that he's African-American. The miscommunication here is my fault though since I use the term "African-American" in two completely different ways in my first post: first as something synonymous with "black" and then as something that refers specifically to one's nationality.

So are you going to sit here and tell me that basketball and rap music aren't part of black culture? It's worth bringing up when you're discussing someone's "blackness", even if it's not what you're getting at.

I'm not arguing that rap and basketball aren't a part of black culture; I'm arguing that liking rap and liking basketball aren't sufficient enough to identify someone as black. As an example, had you said, "like other black people, Obama wasn't raised in a two-parent home and he constantly resisted the temptation to partake in the criminal activity surrounding him," I would have given more weight to the point you were trying to make.

So because he had a few good opportunities (many of which he worked hard for) we can automatically assume that he doesn't understand the struggle black people face in America? He's also talked about struggling with multiracial heritage which, while very different from the historical black struggle we're talking about, is still an issue many black people face today.

As for the community organizer bit, let's not pretend that he sat in an office all day as he had lower level employees do all the street level work. Obama got out on the streets and helped the people himself.

And finally, he worked as a civil rights attorney. If he didn't have to deal with any form of black struggle before, he got to see it first hand there. At the very least he understands the plight, even if he never felt it himself.

I never said that Obama didn't work hard for his opportunities (although I still think the environment in which he was raised was much more conducive to success than the environments in which most blacks are raised) or that his success takes away from his blackness. Additionally, you are right in saying that I don't know for sure whether or not Obama's jobs didn't entail that he do actual fieldwork. That being said, his doctrinaire social policies lead me to believe that he has had very little practical experience with people that are impoverished (black or non-black), hence why I stressed his executive positions.

It's a touchy issue because I HATED when during the election racist pricks would try to convince themselves, "He's not the first black president, he's mixed race." However, I don't think that's what you're trying to say. What you're saying is he's not black like Wayne Brady isn't black, which is less offensive.

You got it, homey. This has nothing to do with the color of Obama's skin.

 

[JGlass]

I agree with this because I don't think Obama's black yet I can't deny that he's African-American. The miscommunication here is my fault though since I use the term "African-American" in two completely different ways in my first post: first as something synonymous with "black" and then as something that refers specifically to one's nationality.

Glad to see we're on the same page. I suppose a better argument would be which people think of when they hear African-American, black people or people from Africa? But that's another discussion entirely.

I'm not arguing that rap and basketball aren't a part of black culture; I'm arguing that liking rap and liking basketball aren't sufficient enough to identify someone as black. As an example, had you said, "like other black people, Obama wasn't raised in a two-parent home and he constantly resisted the temptation to partake in the criminal activity surrounding him," I would have given more weight to the point you were trying to make.

I know that enjoying rap and basketball doesn't make someone understand the black identity, but it's definitely a part of it and something I thought needed to be mentioned.

I never said that Obama didn't work hard for his opportunities (although I still think the environment in which he was raised was much more conducive to success than the environments in which most blacks are raised) or that his success takes away from his blackness. Additionally, you are right in saying that I don't know for sure whether or not Obama's jobs didn't entail that he do actual fieldwork. That being said, his doctrinaire social policies lead me to believe that he has had very little practical experience with people that are impoverished (black or non-black), hence why I stressed his executive positions.

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You got it, homey. This has nothing to do with the color of Obama's skin.

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We have been able to resolve a potentially volatile argument within 6 posts (including this one). I don't know about you, but I'm slightly proud of ourselves.