MLB Trade Deadline Thread

[Big Sexy]

Inge hasn't been overly spectacular this year defending but I'm going to go ahead and take his career as a whole vs the first half of this season. He is struggling right now but he didn't forget how to defend. He is still a great defender his head just isn't there this season.

Upon further review it does look like he will be released soon and it's probably for the better. He could have been a good backup but there also could have been some animosity if he stayed with the team. Don Kelly is a more then capable backup at third and Inge will get signed somewhere as a utility guy.

 

[MVP12]

Great move by the Tigers, at the very least this adds depth and at best Betemit improves an already great offensive lineup. With Carlos Guillen returning recently at second the offense already was going to have a chance to improve and this just adds to that. Inge is a long time Tiger and a great fielder but he just isn't hitting. Betemit is a solid hitter and a good fielder in his own right. Coming off the bench and not playing every day should also help Inge contribute better. The best part about this was that the Tigers gave up two nothing prospects that were probably never going to make the ML roster in Detroit.

They really don't have a weakness in their lineup as long as Magglio and Guillen keep getting better off their injuries. 1-9 they will be able to hit with Jackson, Boesch, Ordonez, Cabrera, Martinez, Guillen, Pheralta, Avila, and now Betemit. They still need pitching obviously but this offensive lineup is scary and they are also solid defensively with the exception of Magglio in right.

yeah if they keep him as their number 9 they should do very well...with their lineup he needs to be number 9, hes a good player just wish he had more then just one full year under his belt and that was back in 06...as a rent-a-player i deffinitly like it for the tigers just hope he can stay on the field for them...i want to see the tigers make the playoffs them or the indians i like both teams.

 

[Megatron]

Sure he may have been a great defender a few years ago but now with the injuries he's had and the age he's reaching (already 34) it's not surprising his defense has fallen down a bit. And while he may make some spectacular plays once in a while he'll also fuck up on routine throws. He used to be a top 5 3B (back when he made the ASG), but now he's nothing more then average.

And I would be surprised to see someone give him much of a deal. I don't care who you are, a .177 average won't let you get a major league job very often. Especially if you have absolutely zero power, which is what Inge possesses. The only way he's gonna have any chance of being on a big league team later this year is if he accepts a minor league deal and hits decent enough (probably around .240-.250) within the next month and gets placed on the 40 man roster. And he won't be a utility guy since he hasn't played anywhere but 3rd since 2008, and again the injuries got up to him and he's lost any sort of range that he would need to be that defensive OF and catcher would be even worse on his body.

While I don't like to say it, Inge's career as an even productive backup are probably gone. You don't go hitting from .240's to .177 in one season without losing a step and a half.

 

[Big Sexy]

Sure he may have been a great defender a few years ago but now with the injuries he's had and the age he's reaching (already 34) it's not surprising his defense has fallen down a bit. And while he may make some spectacular plays once in a while he'll also fuck up on routine throws. He used to be a top 5 3B (back when he made the ASG), but now he's nothing more then average.

Saying he's average now is a bit of a stretch. The injuries have definitely taken a toll but if he takes some time to recover and gets his head together he still has the skills and abilities necessary to be a consistently good defender for a couple more years.

And I would be surprised to see someone give him much of a deal. I don't care who you are, a .177 average won't let you get a major league job very often. Especially if you have absolutely zero power, which is what Inge possesses. The only way he's gonna have any chance of being on a big league team later this year is if he accepts a minor league deal and hits decent enough (probably around .240-.250) within the next month and gets placed on the 40 man roster. And he won't be a utility guy since he hasn't played anywhere but 3rd since 2008, and again the injuries got up to him and he's lost any sort of range that he would need to be that defensive OF and catcher would be even worse on his body.

While I don't like to say it, Inge's career as an even productive backup are probably gone. You don't go hitting from .240's to .177 in one season without losing a step and a half.

I won't deny he is horrendous as a hitter but Inge has something that teams love, especially in the NL, and that is versatility. He can play almost every position in the field and do it fairly well. He will more then likely never be a starter again in MLB but his versatility will intrigue someone and he will at least be given a chance to prove himself. He isn't exactly a paraplegic and could still play in the outfield with good enough range as well as basically any infield position for a few innings if need be.

 

[Megatron]

Actually, Inge is on the downswing of his career and I'd be surprised if he could even get to 50% of the form he was at even a few years ago. Last year, his UZR was middle of the pack (11th of 19th) among guys with at least 925 innings. This year, it's more of the same. UZRis about as good of a defensive metric as you will find (much better then fielding %) and it's showing Inge is on the decline, which should be happening to a 34 year player that spent a good portion of his early career playing a position most draining on a player in catcher.

And again, no team is signing a .177 hitter with absolutely NO power whatsoever to a big league contract. I know Comerica park isn't the best of power hitting fields, but even guys like Austin Jackson and Ramon Santiago have as many or more home runs then Inge. Sure, he may be able to play some OF, but why let him play and burn 3 or 4 outs a game (you may be making him out as more of a situational player but even then he still may get an AB or two). If I was any of the other 29 MLB teams, I wouldn't touch him. He's old, he gets out too much, and his defense now is average, with little versatility.

 

[Big Sexy]

You again are making him seem like a paraplegic. He still has more then enough versatility to be a utility bench guy. His starting days are over but that doesn't mean his career is. You are taking the shitty first half of this one season and over blowing it a little. His fielding isn't where it once was but it is still substantial for a bench player. He has never hit for average so that isn't a surprise at all. As far as power goes he hit 27 home runs just two years ago in a ball park where it is very difficult to do that. His power is on the decline but he can still hit a few out. You're mistaking a player on the decline for one whose career is over. A high character player with the ability to field multiple positions and who just hit .247 last season can find a bench spot on a roster somewhere. He is nothing spectacular but he can make a team.

 

[Megatron]

But lets not forget 21 of those homers were in teh first half and he has hit a total of 20 since. 20 HR in well over 800 PA (more including the 2nd half but I'm too lazy to add those up) is a terrible HR rate. Once every 40 PA is absolutely no power. His HR have gone down significantly since his injury he had throughout 2009. And his defense isn't worth it since again it's only league average at best. Inge isn't worth peanuts anymore.

If someone needs a bat that has pop go after Willy Mo Pena. He's sitting in Arizona's AAA and hit 5 homers in 46 PA's (once about every 15) and has serious pop.

 

[Big Sexy]

But lets not forget 21 of those homers were in teh first half and he has hit a total of 20 since. 20 HR in well over 800 PA (more including the 2nd half but I'm too lazy to add those up) is a terrible HR rate. Once every 40 PA is absolutely no power. His HR have gone down significantly since his injury he had throughout 2009. And his defense isn't worth it since again it's only league average at best. Inge isn't worth peanuts anymore.

His power has definitely gone down but it isn't completely nonexistent and playing in a smaller ball park would certainly help.

If someone needs a bat that has pop go after Willy Mo Pena. He's sitting in Arizona's AAA and hit 5 homers in 46 PA's (once about every 15) and has serious pop.

Not everyone is just looking for power bats or bats in general. There are teams that need high character veterans with the ability to field multiple positions. I also still think you are underrating his fielding ability on the whole. He isn't what he used to be but certainly not average.

I would also like to point out that things like UZR all have flaws. These formulas are created by mathematicians and always leave out details related to the sport involved. John Hollinger has tons of lists based on mathematics when it comes to the NBA and I'd say he is wrong more then he's right.

UZR is basically the number of balls fielded by a player in different zones that are turned into outs. This formula, however, obviously can't take into account how hard/fast the ball is hit. A routine average speed grounder is treated the same as one going at a high speed and treated the same as a slow roller. UZR also only looks at ground balls and doesn't take into account line drives or a players ability to turn double plays.

I'm not saying these math formulas aren't useful I'm just saying they need to be used as an aid to go along with the naked eye and not just used as the end all be all.

 

[Big Sexy]

You know what, I'll even go as far as to name a team that I believe Inge would fit well with and that is the Arizona Diamondbacks. Arizona is a young team fighting for a playoff spot and they just happen to have a backup third baseman who isn't very good. They started the year with Melvin Mora as the backup but he was released after playing god awful. Now they have Sean Burroughs who was actually placed on waivers last month before being given a second chance a few weeks ago. This season Burroughs, a career minor league guy, has played in 33 games and is hitting .250 with 0 home runs and just 3 rbi's in 48 AB's. He also isn't that great of a fielder.

Inge may be struggling with his hitting this year but in a new situation I could see him turning it around and he certainly is no worse then Sean Burroughs. At least Inge has a ton of experience. You know who the manager happens to be in Arizona? Kirk Gibson. The all time Tiger great who once coached Inge in Detroit. Gibson spent a few years as the Tigers Bench Coach and then Hitting Coach. The Diamondbacks ball park is also much more hitter friendly.

EDIT: This leaving Detroit thing probably isn't happening anyways. The Detroit News is reporting that Inge will accept an assignment to Toledo and return to the Tigers in September.

 

[Megatron]

His power has definitely gone down but it isn't completely nonexistent and playing in a smaller ball park would certainly help.

Yeah...no. He won't top 10 homers for a full season anymore (especially now that he'll be in Toledo). His power IS nonexistent.

Not everyone is just looking for power bats or bats in general. There are teams that need high character veterans with the ability to field multiple positions. I also still think you are underrating his fielding ability on the whole. He isn't what he used to be but certainly not average.

If people need veteran bats with postseason experience there's loads of players that could be better options: Jamey Carroll, Clint Barmes, Melky Cabrera, and Michael Cuddyer (if he is on the market).

I would also like to point out that things like UZR all have flaws. These formulas are created by mathematicians and always leave out details related to the sport involved. John Hollinger has tons of lists based on mathematics when it comes to the NBA and I'd say he is wrong more then he's right.

UZR is basically the number of balls fielded by a player in different zones that are turned into outs. This formula, however, obviously can't take into account how hard/fast the ball is hit. A routine average speed grounder is treated the same as one going at a high speed and treated the same as a slow roller. UZR also only looks at ground balls and doesn't take into account line drives or a players ability to turn double plays.

I'm not saying these math formulas aren't useful I'm just saying they need to be used as an aid to go along with the naked eye and not just used as the end all be all.

It's the best measurement of defense that there is. Better then fielding percentage, because it doesn't' penalize players with more range for making errors. You can try to denounce it all you want, but it shows Inge's defense is dwindling to the middle of the pack.

And the naked eye can tell you that aswell, because I've seen him play this year, he'll go out there and make a play he shouldn't make, then can't make a throw/grounder that is routine. That's average. He'll save a few runs once in a while but he'll make some bad errors that cost a run or two.

You know what, I'll even go as far as to name a team that I believe Inge would fit well with and that is the Arizona Diamondbacks. Arizona is a young team fighting for a playoff spot and they just happen to have a backup third baseman who isn't very good. They started the year with Melvin Mora as the backup but he was released after playing god awful. Now they have Sean Burroughs who was actually placed on waivers last month before being given a second chance a few weeks ago. This season Burroughs, a career minor league guy, has played in 33 games and is hitting .250 with 0 home runs and just 3 rbi's in 48 AB's. He also isn't that great of a fielder.

Teams aren't normally shopping for backup 3rd basemen with a weak bat and average fielding skills right now. They're looking for guys that will make an impact. Inge won't provide much of an impact. There's a reason why people thought he would clear waivers if he didn't accept an assignment to Toledo: he's over the hill.

Inge may be struggling with his hitting this year but in a new situation I could see him turning it around and he certainly is no worse then Sean Burroughs. At least Inge has a ton of experience. You know who the manager happens to be in Arizona? Kirk Gibson. The all time Tiger great who once coached Inge in Detroit. Gibson spent a few years as the Tigers Bench Coach and then Hitting Coach. The Diamondbacks ball park is also much more hitter friendly.

Again, you're leaving out too much hope for a guy that never hit for a high average anyways and has had a significant power decline since his injury in 2009. Sure some guys can turn it around with a change of scenery (such as David Ortiz, Jayson Werth, and Jose Bautista recently) but it normally doesnt happen when they're 34 years old and have had a history of knee injuries.

Inge strikes out too much and doesn't do the little things often (sacrifice bunt, hit to the right side to move runners over, even work the count) enough that Arizona would go after him. Gibby has been trying to get these guys to cut down on the strikeouts, that's why Mark Reynolds was shipped out this offseason. Why would they get a guy that strikes out 25% of his PA even as a backup? They won't/wouldn't.

EDIT: This leaving Detroit thing probably isn't happening anyways. The Detroit News is reporting that Inge will accept an assignment to Toledo and return to the Tigers in September.

Yes I saw that when I woke up. Noble move by him, but he's gonna have to get back to his career averages within the next month and a half if he really expects to have a chance of moving back up to Detroit. Francisco Martinez (their 2nd highest hitting prospect) would be a better option at 3rd right now. The only reason he wouldn't be called up is because he's young and they might not wanna throw him right into a playoff race in September (although Betemit would be getting most of the duties anyways). Inge shouldn't be automatically expecting a call-up once September hits. He's gonna have to show he can at least hit AAA pitching.

 

[Big Sexy]

You continue to base Inge's career being over almost exclusively on the first half of this season. One awful half season can be for a lot of reasons. Inge hasn't been fully healthy and he has been in and out of the lineup but I guarantee he is still more then capable of being a solid backup some where.

Just last season Inge hit .247 with 13 home runs (yes he is still more then capable of hitting over 10), 70 rbi's, and he was solid in the field. Those numbers are more then good enough to be a backup in this league. If Inge had been released before this season you would not have gone into a baseball thread saying his career is over and he can't play anymore. You'd be saying what I am now. Instead of overreacting to a horrendous half season look at Inge's body of work. He had a god awful season in 2008 and then became an all star in 2009. With his age that obviously isn't going to happen but to say his career is over is an overreaction to what you've seen over the course of just a few months.

 

[Megatron]

What has Inge done that has shown you he will turn it around? His track record lately is that he won't hit even .250, strikes out almost 3 times as much as he walks, and that his power is significantly declining. Hell, the Tigers were better off keeping him off the field, since his WAR is in the negatives. He can't run, doesn't move runners over by sacrificing himself, and still thinks he can play in 2006 or 2009 mode. That's just not gonna happen. He's not an everyday player, and he probably wouldn't be the first guy off the bench on 75% of the MLB teams. He has an injury history, and would only be useful as a guy that has playoff experience (even though it was only one year). Inge's day as a productive player are long gone.

And for the record, I wasn't a fan of them giving him such a nice deal. Especially for a .250 hitter (at best). And besides, we aren't talking about 7 months ago when he was actually productive. This year he's been a burden at third and the Tigers did the right thing at getting someone to replace him (although it should've probably happened a few weeks earlier). The Tigers gave him more then enough time to turn it around and he failed miserably. When teams are walking the #8 hitter to get to him and he still gets out, you know you're pretty poor.

The Tigers gave him enough time like they gave other guys who started off in slumps (Jackson, Magglio, Benoit) and he's the only one that hasn't improved. It was time to cut the cord on Inge, his worth in Detroit now is nothing but a motivational player until he can get his shit together.

 

[Big Sexy]

What has Inge done that has shown you he will turn it around? His track record lately is that he won't hit even .250, strikes out almost 3 times as much as he walks, and that his power is significantly declining. Hell, the Tigers were better off keeping him off the field, since his WAR is in the negatives. He can't run, doesn't move runners over by sacrificing himself, and still thinks he can play in 2006 or 2009 mode. That's just not gonna happen. He's not an everyday player, and he probably wouldn't be the first guy off the bench on 75% of the MLB teams. He has an injury history, and would only be useful as a guy that has playoff experience (even though it was only one year). Inge's day as a productive player are long gone.

And for the record, I wasn't a fan of them giving him such a nice deal. Especially for a .250 hitter (at best). And besides, we aren't talking about 7 months ago when he was actually productive. This year he's been a burden at third and the Tigers did the right thing at getting someone to replace him (although it should've probably happened a few weeks earlier). The Tigers gave him more then enough time to turn it around and he failed miserably. When teams are walking the #8 hitter to get to him and he still gets out, you know you're pretty poor.

The Tigers gave him enough time like they gave other guys who started off in slumps (Jackson, Magglio, Benoit) and he's the only one that hasn't improved. It was time to cut the cord on Inge, his worth in Detroit now is nothing but a motivational player until he can get his shit together.

70 games. That's what you continue to base almost your entire argument on. He was still good enough to be a 9 hitter last year and now all of the sudden he's out of the league 70 games later? I'm not buying it. At least give him a chance to get his shit together in the minors before completely dismissing him.

I never said he should be a starter or even the first guy off the bench right now but as a second backup infielder you can find guys who are a lot worse. Inge is struggling and needs to get back on track but I'm not writing him off because of 70 games. Being a backup infielder is MUCH easier and takes a lot less toll on your body then being a full time starter at third does. Inge needs to transition to that bench role not retire.

 

[Megatron]

70 games. That's what you continue to base almost your entire argument on. He was still good enough to be a 9 hitter last year and now all of the sudden he's out of the league 70 games later? I'm not buying it. At least give him a chance to get his shit together in the minors before completely dismissing him.

People age. Their bats get slower and less productive. Normally it doesn't happen this quickly, but it does. Inge was never a great hitter anyways, although it's slightly surprising that he's fallen off this quickly. But yes, 70 games is more then enough to judge him by. Getting only 38 hits in over 200 AB's is simply horrible and the Tigers realized it too that they couldn't win as much with him clogging up 3rd.

I never said he should be a starter or even the first guy off the bench right now but as a second backup infielder you can find guys who are a lot worse. Inge is struggling and needs to get back on track but I'm not writing him off because of 70 games. Being a backup infielder is MUCH easier and takes a lot less toll on your body then being a full time starter at third does. Inge needs to transition to that bench role not retire.

If he doesn't change his mantra to simply moving runners over via hitting to the right, and sacrificing himself, then he doesn't have any use hitting. And his fielding, as I've said before, is dwindling before our eyes.

 

[Big Sexy]

People age. Their bats get slower and less productive. Normally it doesn't happen this quickly, but it does. Inge was never a great hitter anyways, although it's slightly surprising that he's fallen off this quickly. But yes, 70 games is more then enough to judge him by. Getting only 38 hits in over 200 AB's is simply horrible and the Tigers realized it too that they couldn't win as much with him clogging up 3rd.

70 games isn't even half a season. No where near enough time to say a guys career is over especially with how he played last year. He wasn't spectacular last year but he was still good enough to start at third and hit in the 9 spot. He has been horrible so far this year but he has more then enough time left in this season to get back on track ans show he can still contribute in some way to a team.

If he doesn't change his mantra to simply moving runners over via hitting to the right, and sacrificing himself, then he doesn't have any use hitting. And his fielding, as I've said before, is dwindling before our eyes.

Once again, just be patient and let the rest of the year play out. As far as his fielding he is still better then average and like I said, being an occasional bench infielder is much easier then a full time starter at third. Coming off the bench will certainly improve his fielding just because of the fact that he will be fresh and his body won't be taking as much of a beating.

 

[Megatron]

70 games isn't even half a season. No where near enough time to say a guys career is over especially with how he played last year. He wasn't spectacular last year but he was still good enough to start at third and hit in the 9 spot. He has been horrible so far this year but he has more then enough time left in this season to get back on track ans show he can still contribute in some way to a team.

Sure he has a chance to turn it around, but I would put those chances at low. He's not gonna be the starter anymore this year (and may not be next if they resign Betemit or call up Martinez) and isn't even the backup 3rd basemen anymore. He's not moving to the OF, and he wouldn't wanna catch anyways. The Tigers ran out of patience and I can't say I blame him. He's more of a burden offensively then ever, and again, his defense is average.

Once again, just be patient and let the rest of the year play out. As far as his fielding he is still better then average and like I said, being an occasional bench infielder is much easier then a full time starter at third. Coming off the bench will certainly improve his fielding just because of the fact that he will be fresh and his body won't be taking as much of a beating.

I'd like to see some proof of how you think his defense is still better then average. His UZR is basically 0, he makes errors on simple plays, and just isn't the same player he once was. Hell, even judging by fielding %, he's not great. Inge has been, to put it best, put out of his misery by the Tigers. I'd be shocked, absolutely shocked, if Leyland really had enough faith to put a .177 hitter into the lineup even a few times down the stretch when he's fighting for another contract. Just shocked.

Do you believe Raburn should be given more chances to then? Since he has been proven to get hot in the 2nd half, lets just keep giving him chances even though he's hitting below .220. You just can't keep plugging in holes that won't produce, and the Tigers know that. They stuck with those two throughout the 1st half and just failed to show they could turn it around. With a tight playoff race being imminent throughout the season, Inge (and Raburn for that matter) will be phased out due to their lack of production. There's no if's ands or buts about it.

 

[Big Sexy]

I'd like to see some proof of how you think his defense is still better then average. His UZR is basically 0, he makes errors on simple plays, and just isn't the same player he once was. Hell, even judging by fielding %, he's not great. Inge has been, to put it best, put out of his misery by the Tigers. I'd be shocked, absolutely shocked, if Leyland really had enough faith to put a .177 hitter into the lineup even a few times down the stretch when he's fighting for another contract. Just shocked.

Two years ago he was still a top 5 third basemen. Last year he wasn't as good but still a good fielder. This year he has struggled with everything but because of his track record I'm giving him the opportunity to redeem himself unlike you. Being in Triple A will give him a chance to relax and not force things like he was in the Majors. He still has the skills and I know this because I've seen him make plays this year that shows he does. Messing up the routine plays is more psychological then physical.

Do you believe Raburn should be given more chances to then? Since he has been proven to get hot in the 2nd half, lets just keep giving him chances even though he's hitting below .220. You just can't keep plugging in holes that won't produce, and the Tigers know that. They stuck with those two throughout the 1st half and just failed to show they could turn it around. With a tight playoff race being imminent throughout the season, Inge (and Raburn for that matter) will be phased out due to their lack of production. There's no if's ands or buts about it.

Horrible comparison. Inge was an all star two years ago and solid last year. He has struggled for 70 games while battling nagging injuries and sickness. Raburn has always been awful both hitting the ball and in the field. How he still manages to make the roster every year is beyond me.

 

[Megatron]

Two years ago he was still a top 5 third basemen. Last year he wasn't as good but still a good fielder. This year he has struggled with everything but because of his track record I'm giving him the opportunity to redeem himself unlike you. Being in Triple A will give him a chance to relax and not force things like he was in the Majors. He still has the skills and I know this because I've seen him make plays this year that shows he does. Messing up the routine plays is more psychological then physical.

I hope you mean top 5 in the AL, because otherwise that's flat out wrong. A-Rod, Longoria, Chone Figgins (even though he split time at 2nd and 3rd), Michael Young I'd all take over him (back in 09), and that's not even including NL guys like Wright, Zimmerman, and Sandoval (and possibly others). Just because he was an AS that year doesn't make him top 5 that year. He may have cracked the top 10, maybe.

I wanted to give Inge and Raburn as much time as possible to turn it around because they've had histories of at least being productive, but both have been so bad (Inge moreso then Raburn) that a team that has all of the talent to win this winnable division has to stop playing two bums that just hurt your offense and one hurts your D (with the other not helping or hurting). Obviously the Tigers feel the same way otherwise they wouldn't have gotten Betemit and put Don Kelly above him in the depth chart.

Inge got his chances and he blew it. Now he's really gonna have to show something in AAA (at LEAST .250 avg and a decent slug %) to warrant a call up. The Tigers shouldn't give him his spot back just because he's Brandon Inge. Those spots could be given to guys that can help out the team in the stretch run. If Inge can't help with his bat AND glove (because even if he's used as a defensive replacement he'll still get AB's) he's not worthwhile to the team.

Horrible comparison. Inge was an all star two years ago and solid last year. He has struggled for 70 games while battling nagging injuries and sickness. Raburn has always been awful both hitting the ball and in the field. How he still manages to make the roster every year is beyond me.

No, Raburn just was given a role that is too big for him to handle. He's not an everyday player. Leyland should've figured out that he's best off playing him when he's hot and sitting his ass down for 3-4 games when hes slumping. Instead, he kept plugging him into a spot that he isn't completely comfortable with and hoped he'd turn it around. In fact, the last two years he was actually very GOOD for what he was: a bench player that can give a few different guys days off. .291/.359/.533 with 16 HRs and 45 RBI's in 291 PA in 2008 and .280/.340/.474 with 15 HRs and 62 RBIs in 410 PA in 2009. If he would've gave that type of production this year he'd still be getting occasional starts.

And I'd still have Raburn playing everyday then Inge, although they're both best off sitting on the bench and letting guys who are producing play.

 

[Big Sexy]

I hope you mean top 5 in the AL, because otherwise that's flat out wrong. A-Rod, Longoria, Chone Figgins (even though he split time at 2nd and 3rd), Michael Young I'd all take over him (back in 09), and that's not even including NL guys like Wright, Zimmerman, and Sandoval (and possibly others). Just because he was an AS that year doesn't make him top 5 that year. He may have cracked the top 10, maybe.

I'm not talking overall third basemen, I'm talking about just from a fielding perspective. Inge has never been close to a top 5 overall third basemen.

I wanted to give Inge and Raburn as much time as possible to turn it around because they've had histories of at least being productive, but both have been so bad (Inge moreso then Raburn) that a team that has all of the talent to win this winnable division has to stop playing two bums that just hurt your offense and one hurts your D (with the other not helping or hurting). Obviously the Tigers feel the same way otherwise they wouldn't have gotten Betemit and put Don Kelly above him in the depth chart.

Raburn has never been that productive overall. He can be as a hitter off the bench but is a horrible fielder. They are two completely different players.

Inge got his chances and he blew it. Now he's really gonna have to show something in AAA (at LEAST .250 avg and a decent slug %) to warrant a call up. The Tigers shouldn't give him his spot back just because he's Brandon Inge. Those spots could be given to guys that can help out the team in the stretch run. If Inge can't help with his bat AND glove (because even if he's used as a defensive replacement he'll still get AB's) he's not worthwhile to the team.

I've never once said he should be given a job on a main roster. I've said to at least give him more then 70 games. If he fails in Triple A I'll be more inclined to agree with you but goddamn give the guy a shot.

No, Raburn just was given a role that is too big for him to handle. He's not an everyday player. Leyland should've figured out that he's best off playing him when he's hot and sitting his ass down for 3-4 games when hes slumping. Instead, he kept plugging him into a spot that he isn't completely comfortable with and hoped he'd turn it around. In fact, the last two years he was actually very GOOD for what he was: a bench player that can give a few different guys days off. .291/.359/.533 with 16 HRs and 45 RBI's in 291 PA in 2008 and .280/.340/.474 with 15 HRs and 62 RBIs in 410 PA in 2009. If he would've gave that type of production this year he'd still be getting occasional starts.

A little hypocritical there. So Raburn can't be a starter but is fine as a backup yet Inge struggles for 70 games as a full time starter and now he should retire?

And I'd still have Raburn playing everyday then Inge, although they're both best off sitting on the bench and letting guys who are producing play.

Right this second, yes. Every other time throughout their careers, fuck no

 

[Megatron]

I'm not talking overall third basemen, I'm talking about just from a fielding perspective. Inge has never been close to a top 5 overall third basemen.

Alright, that makes more sense. Back in 09, I could agree.

Raburn has never been that productive. The occasional home run does not make you productive. They are two completely different players.

Raburn WAS good the previous two years though. He has been productive. I won't show those numbers again. That's very good for the limited amount of PA's he got.

I've never once said he should be given a job on a main roster. I've said to at least give him more then 70 games. If he fails in Triple A I'll be more inclined to agree with you but goddamn give the guy a shot.

Sure he can play in AAA all he wants. I was just saying that enoughs enough with him as a starter and even on the MLB roster (at the moment). And had he not accepted his spot, I'd have a hard time believing anyone else would've given him more then a minor league contract with how he was playing this year.

A little hypocritical there. So Raburn can't be a starter but is fine as a backup yet Inge struggles for 70 games as a full time starter and now he should retire?

Inge still thinks he can be a starting everyday 3B. While I appreciate his heart, he's a little bit full of himself. And while Raburn thought he could still start as well, the Tigers somewhat forced him into the starting spot when they got rid of Sizemore and sent Rhymes back down. Raburns a good backup because he still has pop in his bat and the last two years were good years for a guy that is competent (probably generous I know) fielding at a few different spots. Inge can't catch or play any IF spot beside 3rd, and would probably only work at RF due to it being the easiest of the OF spots (and even then they have better options then him there for backup).

And for the record, I'd rather have Raburn sent out as well. Right now he's just taking up roster space. Casper Wells should still be up on the team. He didn't deserve the bullshit he got because of Raburn.

Right this second, yes. Every other time throughout their careers, fuck no

These last two years Raburn was far more productive offensively and competent at Defense. And those were his only two years where he has had more then 200 PA's.

And I think we're just going in circles in this, so I'll have my final say on Inge: he was deservedly sent down due to his shitty performance, and if he wants a chance to be back on the Tigers (and continue playing in the MLB) he's gonna have to play significantly better in AAA for the next month or so. Should he not make it back up on the roster this year, I'd either A) release him, or B) give him a chance to make spring training, and if he doesn't make it, release him. No point in letting a 35 year old man flounder in AAA for the rest of his career.

 

[Big Sexy]

Raburn WAS good the previous two years though. He has been productive. I won't show those numbers again. That's very good for the limited amount of PA's he got.

He had two good seasons as a bench hitter but has always been a pretty shit fielder. I'm talking overall production as a player and he has never really done that especially not as a full time starter.

Sure he can play in AAA all he wants. I was just saying that enoughs enough with him as a starter and even on the MLB roster (at the moment). And had he not accepted his spot, I'd have a hard time believing anyone else would've given him more then a minor league contract with how he was playing this year.

In this entire thread I have never once argued that he should still be a starter. I said one 70 game stretch doesn't mean his career is over.

Inge still thinks he can be a starting everyday 3B. While I appreciate his heart, he's a little bit full of himself. And while Raburn thought he could still start as well, the Tigers somewhat forced him into the starting spot when they got rid of Sizemore and sent Rhymes back down. Raburns a good backup because he still has pop in his bat and the last two years were good years for a guy that is competent (probably generous I know) fielding at a few different spots. Inge can't catch or play any IF spot beside 3rd, and would probably only work at RF due to it being the easiest of the OF spots (and even then they have better options then him there for backup).

What is Inge supposed to do? He has been a starter for close to a decade. There are no players that just accept there days as a starter are over. It's a process.

These last two years Raburn was far more productive offensively and competent at Defense. And those were his only two years where he has had more then 200 PA's.

And this year he went to shit. Two years as a good bench player/occasional starter is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

And I think we're just going in circles in this, so I'll have my final say on Inge: he was deservedly sent down due to his shitty performance, and if he wants a chance to be back on the Tigers (and continue playing in the MLB) he's gonna have to play significantly better in AAA for the next month or so. Should he not make it back up on the roster this year, I'd either A) release him, or B) give him a chance to make spring training, and if he doesn't make it, release him. No point in letting a 35 year old man flounder in AAA for the rest of his career.

Where was this earlier in the thread? Like I said, just give the guy a chance and see what happens. Don't just write him off into retirement.

 

[BooCocky]

As a long time Pirates fan this has been a great season. It's been enjoyable and we are exceeding expectations. The Bucco's are winning on pitching and we are in serious need of a power hitter. We also need a reliever but I think Grilli is a reliever that could help.

Anyways, several names come to mind, Carlos Pena, Hunter Pence, Ty Wigginton, and Jason Giambi, yes I just wrote Jason Giambi. The Pirates need some pop at first base or the outfield. Pena may be batting 220 but he provides serious pop. Wiggington can play several positions so that'd be a plus. Pence at the moment is a long shot but who the hell knows. Our minor league system is loaded and something I should note, the Pirates are going to have to add a lot of men to the 40 man roster or we may lose them next year. We have some trade bait with Marte and Hernandez, Lincoln, and Owens. So who knows, the Stro's may bite on a trade like that.

Giambi is a horrendous fielder but he provides good pop. He has like 10 homeruns in 95 AB's or some shit.

As a Pirates fan I hope we acquire a bat but I wouldn't want to hurt the future if we don't have to. Who knows, our solution may be in the Minors. Alvarez returned tonight, and Pearce returned a few days ago. I do want Pena so we could have a lineup like this...

LF- Presley
RF- Tabata
CF- McCutchen
1B- Pena
2B- Walker
3B- Alvarez
Ss- Cendeno
C- McKenry
P-

Whatever we do it's going to be a good business move. I'm really looking forward to the next week. Deadline is approaching!

 

[People's Champ]

So its all but a done deal. Beltran to the Giants for prospect Zack Wheeler. A great trade for the Giants. A lot of fans here are mixed or don't like the deal (Wheeler the best pitching prospect we have), but its a great one. Having seen Wheeler a lot (he's pitching here at Class A San Jose), he's nowhere near the level Lincecum or even Bumgarner were when they were here. He's at least 2 years away from coming up. The Giants sorely needed a bat in this lineup and Beltran gives them that. He'll come in and hit in the 3rd or 4th spot and I'm sure will instantly help this struggling offense and take some pressure off guys like Sandoval, Huff and Ross. Giving up an unknown for a proven bat that can help in the chase for a 2nd World Series title is a smart move.

 

[Rising Savior]

Pretty shocked that The Phillies got Hunter Pence for basically nothing I would of thought they would at least sent Dominic Brown to the Astros. Indians picking up Ubaldo Jiminez surprised me I didn't think the Rockies would actually trade him. Red Sox just picked up Rich Harden from the A's I really hooe that he can stay healthy. I was hoping we could get Kuroda from the Dodgers but he didn't want to leave l.a he pitched really well against us in interleague last year. Should be interesting to see who's spot Harden takes in the rotation either Wakefields or Andrew Millers they've both been god awful for us recently. Wakefield is giving up too many home runs while Miller's control has been absolutely horrendous recently it was bad when we called him up but now he's on a whole different level of bad.

 

[Theo Mays]

While I'm not a fan of Hunter Pence, I am a fan of the move. We lost Cosart and Singleton as the main two keys. Singleton has some great pop and is a youngster, but he really didn't fit in our farm system or future plans. Singleton is naturally a 1B and with Howard he didn't fit into our future plans. So we tried a move to LF and it just didn't work out. Cosart has some good potential and I'm bummed to see him go, but it was worth the cause.

Pence gives us just exactly what we needed and that is a right handed bat. This also sets us up for the future as Pence is only 28 and pretty much set as our RF for awhile. With Raul likely gone next year Dommy Brown will most likely take that spot over. That gives the Phils a nice looking lineup for a few years, especially if Brown can finally fulfill his potential. Great move by the Phils and the offense played well tonight. Pence didn't do much, but it should pay off it the long run. I'm just glad we managed to keep both Brown and Worley.