Mark Madden proud member of The Idiot Zone

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Mark Madden posted an exclusive on Oct 9, 2010 detailing some problems he believes TNA has.
My biggest problem with Mark Madden is that he seems to be completely against TNA. Below are some quotes taken from the article he wrote.

http://www.wrestlezone.com/editorials/article/exclusive-the-idiot-zone-flair-vs-foley-113907

The biggest mistake is listening to the idiotic cretins that populate the Impact Zone. Those people think they matter. They shouldn’t matter. Ratings matter. Buyrates matter. Audiences that aren’t jaded matter. Jerks that get in free and often do their best to ruin the show shouldn’t matter.

Of course ratings and buyrate matter but, what Mark forgets to mention is that TNA rating have increased although slightly it's still an increase.He also fails to mention or remember that WWE PPV buyrates have been doing the toilet bowl swirl.
To think that fans don't matter is an insane comment the WWE doesn't even cater to the casual fan.The little corners of the wrestling world as Madden describes them, are the same ones that don't want to see a company like TNA turn PG.
If your pushing a product and think your fan base doesn't matter than more than likely they will say screw you.People just want to see wrestling not sports entertainment.

Beats the crap out of throwing money away, and out of super-serving nitwits who hurt more than they help. What’s the point of an “enthusiastic” audience that will sabotage a new character in the womb just because they aren’t familiar with it? There’s NO WAY the Impact Zone could have passed fair judgment on the Jersey Shore gimmick in the minuscule amount of time it was on camera.

Is Mark even aware that stone cold started the "What" chant anytime someone talk.Yes Mark Madden it came from WWE.The fans are always engaged in a match which makes watching it more enjoyable.It beats the WWE audiance that sit on there arms and only pop for a finisher or Cena intro.Most of the time when you watch a WWE show the crowd seems dead.Yes TNA should have booked a match with the shore instead they had a promo that is a different story tho.

Fans at WWE TV initially lambasted The Rock with “go away” heat. But WWE stayed the course, The Rock’s character evolved, and he ultimately became one of wrestling’s biggest stars. Even now, marks don’t always embrace John Cena. But WWE stays true to its own creative vision, confident things will come good. If you’re a competent booker, knee-jerk reactions aren’t indulged. You know more than the citizens, right?

The marks as Madden call them blast Cena because like Cole said "Cena with a drop kick?"(How long has he been wrestling on T.V?).There are better wrestlers on the "E" roster but mic skills trump mat skill over at the "E".

They also shove Cena down are throat like they do Orton,Shamus,Nexus etc..
The WWE stays true to Cena 1. Because he is selling merchandise end of story, if he wasn't selling nothing he would jobbing like Even bourne.

Mark Madden also says it takes time to build a wrestler like the Rock yet he is blasting TNA to make a change.Why should they when TNA can stay true to its own creative vision?

Problem is, Foley can’t do what Flair can do. He’s grotesquely out of shape, he was nothing more than a stuntman in the first place, he’s totally immobile and a lazy bastard besides. So to indulge this feud – which was a bad idea from the get-go – Flair has to do what Foley does. Which is reduce himself to a garbage wrestler.

To call Foley lazy makes me LMAO.I guess Mark forgets that Foley had a big part in the attitude era. He was pushing his body and the WWE to hardcore.

The man was thrown of a Hell IN A Cell and crashed on a table! Maybe that and numerous other events is why his body is beaten.Foley taken more bumps than flair Mark Madden who do you think will be in better condition?

I think the Foley Flair match was better than anything on the WWE HITC pay-per view.Atleast Flair and Foley used the whole ring and weapons was a plus.

Did anyone see the WWE HITC? It was basically a covering for the ring because no one used the damn cell. It was just like watching another RAW program.

I for one would like to see wrestling and not sports entertainment. TNA so far is the closest in that department.Yes the X-division is the reason I gained interest.Why? You may ask.Well it's because in a matter of 10 minutes I would see more Wrestling moves than if I watched 3 episodes of Raw.


To the wrestling fans on this board. I would like to get your opinion of the article.Is Mark Madden correct in his assumption or is Mark Madden the biggest "Mark".

 

[The Crock]

Dude, what are you talking about? Madden is absolutely right. Madden doesn't put anything lightly, but he is damn right. What do the iMPACT Zone fans have to do with anything TNA puts out? NOTHING. They ARE insignificant, they don't pay for their tickets, and they most likely don't buy the PPVs either. He's right about Shore too. They were out there for a few minutes before the idiots that are all over the iMPACT Zone started booing them for no reason. They don't allow for any gimmicks to develop, they are completely closed minded and moronic.

Also, the 'E doesn't shove Cena down our throats at all. He is the face of the company, people want to see him, so they put him on camera. Are you even remotely aware of how anything in the wrestling business works, or are you just talking out of your ass?

You have to be delusional if you don't see how little Foley cares anymore! What does the Attitude Era have anything to do with what Madden said? Foley is way out of shape, and he really shouldn't be in the ring. To tell you the truth, the only reason the fans DO love Foley is because of him being a "stuntman" and because he was gold on the mic. Neither, Flair nor Foley have to be doing this, they don't have to be humiliating themselves on TV, but they are... they're reducing themselves to garbage. Their match on iMPACT was terrible. Blood everywhere, and just not generally direction in that match. Also, if you claim TNA has more "wrestling moves" you're obviously not watching the same thing I am. If anything, TNA is 25-times more of a "spotfest" then the WWE is, and they focus on blood and being edgy... not matches.

 

[Mr_Wrestling_Number_7]

The thing I find funny about Madden is, for someone who despises their booking philosophy and seemingly everything about TNA (except the under-used talent)..he spends every single article devoted to every 'episode' and what went wrong in it. I hated TNA so bad, I quit watching. Problem solved. I hated the whole 'Hogan/Eric lending a hand' thing. I despise seeing Hogan take the mic, I hate hearing him speak. Therefore, I wrote that business off a long time ago. I may watch one day again, once it all crumbles and they over haul everything, without Hogan of course.

I don't hate Madden, I rather like his articles and I would be more intrigued to read his views on some of the WWE writing as of late. He occasionally does this but nowhere near the frequency of his TNA bon fires.

 

[flocker]

Madden is right.

Period.

The impact zone fans think they are more important than the actual show. Not ALL of them, I bet the real number is less than 50, but they are there all the time starting chants that are just stupid.

Flair can still "go" and his mic sills are off the hook.
Foleys best offense EVER involved a sweat sock. Foley USED TO do the best mic work in the biz. Now he saves it for his next book.

That backstage interview with Fortune and mostly Flair on the aftershow was awesome. Freaking Awesome.

I want to see Flair v Angle.
I want to see Flair v AJ.
I want to see Flair v Sting.

I want to see Flair cut promos. Forever.

But he needs to WRESTLE a LOT less.

I want to see Flair cut promos on Kendrick while Raven cuts promos on AJ. Sick crazy promos vs arrogant champion programs.

I want to see Flair cut promos on WBTT while Angle cuts promos on Beer Money.

I want Nash to be a heel manager.

And most of all I want Madden to keep writing columns that piss off marks. Nobody WRITES stuff that infuriates the self righteous wrestling mark like Mr Madden.

Nobody.

On a scale of one to four I give him a FIVE.
.
.
.
Maybe.

 

[Mr_Wrestling_Number_7]

So he gets paid to do that? I didn't know that. I just thought he wrote whatever was on his mind and it appeared that there was a pattern going on there. I figured he was just watching a weeks worth of wrestling and writing about it, which always seems to be about torching TNA lol. Which, hey I don't care either way, that show failed in my mind long ago. I'd just be interested in reading more from his pov about WWE. I'd say for 2010 his articles, if weighed in terms of mostly TNA opinion or WWE opinion or if both were mentioned is probably about 95%TNA 4%WWE and 1%Both.

lol whether I get paid or not is lightyears from the issue, please try to keep up.

 

[sTyLnK]

It's quite obvious how much potential TNA actually has as a company and Mark sees this as well, but has just become frustrated with how it's being run year after year.

 

[bringitback]

Who is Mark Madden? lol. Isn't he that fat piece of shit commentator from the late days of WCW? What the hell has he done?

Yeah. He is a commentator from WCW. Which means he has done a hell of a lot more and his opinion is a hell of a lot more educated and relevant that anybody on this forum.

Anyway.

Here's the thing about Madden. He's writing editorials. He uses humour as a way of getting his opinions across. Don't take everything he says to heart because a lot is said with tongue placed firmly in cheek. I like Madden, he's a funny guy who calls it like it is.

First of all, what so may people here forget is that Wrestling is a product that is there for "marks". You are supposed to suspend disbelief. You are supposed to be a child to do this. You are supposed to be an effing mark! You aren't supposed to be a smart or a smark or a smudge or a schmmodle or whatever you want to call it. In the past, when people got to the stage when they weren't marks anymore, they stopped watching because they realised they had grown out of it. These days, what you have are people, like those found in the impact zone. Wrestling is for kids. We are the exception! Wrestling isn't for us. Wrestlings golden age came with the birth of Hulkamania. Aimed at kids and the best thing was, there weren't people there to boo and spoil it for the kids in the first place. TNA's main problem is that they are aiming their product ENTIRELY at people that refuse to suspend disbelief, at people that are not marks, at people you are least likely to make money out of. Don't believ me? how much gate moeny did they receive from there latest show? $0. Great way to run your business there, Dixie! And it's instant suicide, which is coincidentally the reason WWE is still the only company in a decent position right now. Because they have rebranded their product in such a way that in todays climate, it is as profitable as a professional wrestling/sports entertainment/whatever you want to call it can be. Every time Mark Madden laughs at TNA, it is for this (completely valid) reason. TNA is NOT the next WWE. It is the next ECW.

To say that people want "wrestling and not sports entertainment" is ridiculous, because sports entertainment has been much more profitable than wrestling ever was. Sports Entertainment was born the day Vince McMahon invented Wrestlemania and Hulkamania. That is when Professional wrestling realised its potential, the whole point of Pro Wrestling, since day one, has been to make money. Sports Entertainment did that like nothing else had ever done before within the confines of a squared circle.

ANother thing you mentioned was that WWE crowds are dead. Yeah, fair point. BUT the thing is, there's a reason the term is called "pop". That term, believe it or not, came from the sexual innuendo....where to "pop" is to "cum". The idea of a Wrestling event is to build to this pop. Which means that the crowd is only supposed to pop...or cum....at the climax of the action. The moment they have been wating for. Not 25 times in each match. How many times did the crowd ppp during the tag matches between Beer Money and MCMG lately? Which is all well and good, but it killed anything that came after it. How can you build a show around a main event when the crowd has already seen the best part an hour before they were SUPPOSED to pop? Again, a reason TNA's fans and booking staff should be thrown away. It's not what is supposed to happen.

You say you laugh when Madden calls Foley lazy? When he says that he isn't what he used to be? Dude. Stop it. It's the truth. I love Mick Foley, some of my favourite moments from the past 20 years in wrestling have been Mick Foley moments. But c'mon. He's fat, he doesn't put the same amount of effort in as he did. He doesn't care as much as he used to. Okay, Madden went over the top with how he delivered it, but take it with a pinch of salt and see the underlying message. Madden said Foley's past it. And he's right.

As he usually is.

 

[Mr_Wrestling_Number_7]

The only thing I liked was going to the 4 sided ring. And most of what Madden says in those articles I agree with. It's quite comical actually. I just figured he would have gave up on it by now. As long as Dixie is stupid enough to listen to idiots then it's not going to change. I'd rather be forced to watch Grey's Anatomy on Thursdays that sit and watch Abyss act so...fat and childish.

 

[flocker]

Mark has life long friends working at TNA.
Mark is a "heel" and that's not JUST an act.
Mark wants wrestling to be fun and "cool" again. That's never going to happen while Vinnie Mac has sole controll of the E and no real competition.

So he hypes the competition where his buddies work.

Look up the Outsider flu stories.

Check to see who co-wrote Ric Flairs book.

Get a guest list of people who've done appearances on Mark's radio show. Mark takes care of his own. Like a heel. Like a super-genious heel.

 

[Haris.iPac]

Well matches in WWE are totally boring, I fast-forward the matches in WWE. Mark is too harsh on TNA, TNA storylines suck but the matches TNA gives us are awesome.

 

[.]

Of course ratings and buyrate matter but, what Mark forgets to mention is that TNA rating have increased although slightly it's still an increase.He also fails to mention or remember that WWE PPV buyrates have been doing the toilet bowl swirl.

Maybe WWE's PPV buys have slightly dropped but WWE reveals their PPV buys. TNA doesn't(Not that i'm saying that's anything bad or good.) The fans in the Impact zone are the worst thing about TNA and one of the reasons i turned away from the product for a while before getting back to it. TNA's ratings have increased slightly, Big fucking deal! RAW still holds stronger ratings and managed to bounce back after a massive drop. TNA would be WWE's biggest competition by now if only they moved out of Orlando.

To think that fans don't matter is an insane comment the WWE doesn't even cater to the casual fan.The little corners of the wrestling world as Madden describes them, are the same ones that don't want to see a company like TNA turn PG.

Yes, The WWE hates it's casual fans. That's why every week on all three brands we see Hornswoggle defend the World Heavyweight title. Currently the older fans are seeing Paul Bearer back. i doubt any kids would know who he is but i would say the "Casual fan" does. It's also bringing back moments from the past aswell.

If your pushing a product and think your fan base doesn't matter than more than likely they will say screw you.People just want to see wrestling not sports entertainment.

Yes but TNA has more fans that the ********s in the Impact zone.

Is Mark even aware that stone cold started the "What" chant anytime someone talk.Yes Mark Madden it came from WWE.

Except they didn't just chant "What". They chanted "Boring" and i believe "Shut the fuck up", Hell the guy didn't leave a good impression on me but maybe of not for the crowd it wouldn't have been too sour.

It beats the WWE audiance that sit on there arms and only pop for a finisher or Cena intro.

Because Cena is the only guy in WWE who the crowd responds to when he enters.

Most of the time when you watch a WWE show the crowd seems dead.Yes TNA should have booked a match with the shore instead they had a promo that is a different story tho.

It would be much better to introduce yourself to an audience instead of just wrestling a match and saying absolutely nothing.(See: Rob Terry)

The marks as Madden call them blast Cena because like Cole said "Cena with a drop kick?"(How long has he been wrestling on T.V?).There are better wrestlers on the "E" roster but mic skills trump mat skill over at the "E".

True, I suppose.

They also shove Cena down are throat like they do Orton,Shamus,Nexus etc..
The WWE stays true to Cena 1. Because he is selling merchandise end of story, if he wasn't selling nothing he would jobbing like Even bourne.

And they "shove" them to us because they appeal to us and recieve big reactions and can work in the ring and relate to us. But then again i would like to see The Great Khali as the face of the company. If you get over you have a future not if you sell merchandise but that isn't necessarily the case all the time you might not have the backing backstage.(See: Matt Hardy)

Mark Madden also says it takes time to build a wrestler like the Rock yet he is blasting TNA to make a change.Why should they when TNA can stay true to its own creative vision?

Because right now a feud like EV 2.0-Fortune doesn't necessarily make the most sense face/heel wise and Kurt Angle's win or retire thing is a bit too predictable whereas alot of people thought John Cena was gonna beat Wade Barrett at Hell In A Cell but that didn't happen did it? Then again the "They" Storyline is quite interesting but right now that's about it.

The man was thrown of a Hell IN A Cell and crashed on a table! Maybe that and numerous other events is why his body is beaten.Foley taken more bumps than flair Mark Madden who do you think will be in better condition?

Flair has been wrestling for longer, Is older and and at one point was in a plane crash which nearly ended his career. The way i see it Flair should be in worse condition.

I think the Foley Flair match was better than anything on the WWE HITC pay-per view.Atleast Flair and Foley used the whole ring and weapons was a plus.

No. It wasn't. Sure it was a good old fashioned brawl but by far the DBD,Miz and JoMo match was miles better than it at least. Now i didn't see the other matches but that was definantly better than that because at least they used the entire stage and the spots and submissions were well done and there was Total Nonstop Action

Did anyone see the WWE HITC? It was basically a covering for the ring because no one used the damn cell. It was just like watching another RAW program.

Except with a cell. It was used to an extent for certain spots and saying it wasn't used just because nobody bled is just dumb.

I for one would like to see wrestling and not sports entertainment. TNA so far is the closest in that department.Yes the X-division is the reason I gained interest.Why? You may ask.Well it's because in a matter of 10 minutes I would see more Wrestling moves than if I watched 3 episodes of Raw.

The now dead X-Division?

Why is it that every single time Madden writes an article, some dumb TNA mark starts a thread about him? It's his opinion get over it.

 

[snoopy]

He is basicly bashing Tna for what they might do and not for what they have done with the shore! That's some crazy ass forsight if you ask me!

 

[Reverend_Dead]

Its funny Mark Madden talks about being lazy in the ring because I remember in Marks later in-ring career he himself became lazy and sloppy. His opponents would have to carry the match. Oh thats right I forgot, HE NEVER HAD AN IN-RING CAREER. I guess sitting behind a desk at ringside and having your head UP KURT ANGLES ASS FOR THE LAST DECADE AND A HALF allow you to judge a wrestlers in-ring abilities.

 

[EssJay76]

I actually have to agree with Madden. I was never a fan of his while he was in WCW, but I do look forward to reading his columns on WZ. Madden is basically an outspoken fan of wrestling. He criticizes TNA as sort of a reality check to them. WWE won the war with WCW and became the only show in town. There is no longer any competition in the world of wrestling. For WWE to improve TNA has to get better. Madden is pointing out the flaws in TNA to get them to a level where they can compete.

TNA lets their audience in for free. I can’t call them fans when they don’t pay for the product. A fan has every right to cheer and boo who they feel like caring for. A lot of the people in the IMPACT ZONE don’t even know who some of these people are. Some of the people in attendance are there just to cause problems for the show (the cancer crew) and the talent. The real fans of TNA are those who pay for the PPVs and tune in every Thursday night. They are the people that TNA should care about, not the guy who is there cause he just happened to stumble upon a free show while visiting Universal Studios with their family.

Jersey Shore got screwed by the audience on Thursday because they were not able to embrace a new character. TNA allows the audience to dictate who gets the most air time (something the WWE does at times too), but those are the WWE and ECW guys who the audience recognizes. How many TNA originals get significant TV time? A.J. and Abyss are about the only two that come to my mind. WWE is willing to put new guys on TV and let them do their thing. If they don’t get over in New York there is always another chance to get over in Chicago, Kansas, Seattle, and anywhere else the WWE travels to to perform in front of paying fans.

As for Foley and Flair... they need to know when to stop. HBK and now Nash have, without embarrassing themselves or their legacy. There is still a place for them in the wrestling world, but a hardcore, spotfest bloodbath shouldn’t be it. Just because Flair was dumb with his money shouldn’t give him the right to go out there and do garbage matches. Is TNA a charity? Wrestlers need to know when to give it up and get out.

 

[LSN80]

This is just Mark being Mark.

The thing you have to realize, is that living in Pittsburgh, I get to hear Madden 4 hours a day, 5 days a week if I choose. And Madden talks about the things that he is passionate about. Madden talks about the Pirates alot. Its surely not because theyre good, they own the longest season losing streak in professional sports history. But he still talks about them. Its not because he's obligated to, trust me, Madden talks about what HE cares about.

And its the same thing with his writing. He cares about TNA, and has been mentioned above, is friends with some people in TNA. One of them is Kevin Nash. Another is Kurt angle. He's had them both on his show. The third(whose also been on his show), allowed Madden to co-author his autobiography. Just Ric Flair is all. He cares about the product, and moreso, the people involved in it. But hes not going to sit back and say nothing if he thinks something sucks. So when he writes about them, its because he cares, right or wrong. He has a podium, so why not use it?

In this case, he's right. Most of the people who get into the Impact Zone do so for free. Their voices don't matter. Sponsorships, ratings, and PPV's do, as he said. Mark says and does everything he does for a reason. Sometimes he does what he does to piss people off. Seems to have worked in this case.

Finally, he wasn't saying that the fans dont matter. He was saying the fans that get into the Impact Zone for free week after week dont matter. Because in the long term, financial, creative vision, they shouldn't. Madden an idiot? Hardly.

 

[closet_fan]

one of the things i used to love about WZ was madden's editorials. not anymore. it seems to be hate speech 90 percent of the time, with a little snippet here and here about other things while he takes a breath.

i'll still read him, but he isn't as good as he used to be. he really comes off as a guy who wants the E to hire him.

 

[DirtyJosé]

Another Madden thread, another collection of whiners. I love this...how often do you see (supposed) grown men acting like children over mean words someone said about somebody else? Keep it up, kids, you amuse me.

He is basicly bashing Tna for what they might do and not for what they have done with the shore! That's some crazy ass forsight if you ask me!

He's basically giving his opinion, champ. He's not allowed to form an opinion on a gimmick based on a tv show that's already been on the air for a long while? He's not allowed to comment on the bland gimmick that most of us know will be gone in two months anyway? Why do you care so much?

Its funny Mark Madden talks about being lazy in the ring because I remember in Marks later in-ring career he himself became lazy and sloppy. His opponents would have to carry the match. Oh thats right I forgot, HE NEVER HAD AN IN-RING CAREER. I guess sitting behind a desk at ringside and having your head UP KURT ANGLES ASS FOR THE LAST DECADE AND A HALF allow you to judge a wrestlers in-ring abilities.

Bitter much? Let me guess; you're one of the special ******s that thinks only other wrestlers can criticize the industry in any way, aren't you? Remember that time you tried to be relevant in a conversation about Mark Madden? OH WAIT, YOU FAILED AT THAT! I guess sitting in your bedroom all alone and getting butt hurt by an internet editorial allows you to think you can contribute anything to the conversation.

What I enjoy is how simpletons like you and the next guy can't grasp why someone wouldn't sing nothing but TNA praises in his reviews, so you assume there must be some ulterior motive. Only children think in such two dimensional terms. Sorry if life is just a little too complex for you all to understand.

he really comes off as a guy who wants the E to hire him.

Wow, really? This is some grade A ignorant shit right here. If Madden wanted the WWE to hire him, he'd probably have a gig with them already of some sort, seeing as how JR is hot for him. You'd have to be some kind of stupid stupid mark to believe this.

Criticism does not need to be fair nor equally balanced.

 

[LSN80]

one of the things i used to love about WZ was madden's editorials. not anymore. it seems to be hate speech 90 percent of the time, with a little snippet here and here about other things while he takes a breath.

i'll still read him, but he isn't as good as he used to be. he really comes off as a guy who wants the E to hire him.

If you've really read Madden's articles, you would know that used to bash WWE unmercissily in the past. He sounded off against the Undertaker-CM Punk incident, where Taker told Punk to dress more like a champion, and Punk said "what about John Cena?" As an avid "past" reader you surely must remember how much he bashed the Undertaker there.

That's what Mark does. He bashes people, places, and events he doesn't like. He's not a positive guy. He never has been, and I doubt he ever will be. He has a sports talk show here in Pittsburgh, and NONE of the Steelers will come on it, because he bashes all of them personally, from Jerome Bettis, to Hines Ward. It's hi-freakin-larious.

If he really wanted to be hired by WWE, I HIGHLY doubt he would have wrote this.

Originally posted by Mark Madden on 9/15/10 in "My Gripe With TNA."

I am NOT a WWE fan. Grew up in the promotion’s original territory, but never liked it. Formulaic and repetitive, then as now. Hated the Hulkamania era. I’ll never forgive WWE for trying to minimize Ric Flair during his initial run. I’ve respected many WWE performers, but since WCW folded, WWE isn’t giving the people what they want. The people are getting what the McMahon family LIKES. To varying degrees, WWE is a vanity promotion. Lack of competition has made the rot set in.

Does that sound like someone who wants to get hired by WWE?

 

[LSN80]

Its funny Mark Madden talks about being lazy in the ring because I remember in Marks later in-ring career he himself became lazy and sloppy. His opponents would have to carry the match. Oh thats right I forgot, HE NEVER HAD AN IN-RING CAREER. I guess sitting behind a desk at ringside and having your head UP KURT ANGLES ASS FOR THE LAST DECADE AND A HALF allow you to judge a wrestlers in-ring abilities.

Since when did having an in-ring career matter when it came to being able to judge a wrestler's ability, or its product in general? I guess Jim Ross, under your lofty standard, should have no place ever having called a wrestling match, or blogging about them?

As for Kurt Angle, Angle is a Pittsburgh guy who regularly comes on Mark's show. He and Mark are friends. If your friend was great at what he did, wouldn't you talk him up?

 

[kazfan401]

The guys an idiot, why doesn't he go crawl under a rock and have a long hard (That's what she said lol) think about everything, and maybe he will realise that no one gives a crap about his idiotic TNA bashing articles. He is calling Foley lazy? Is he serious? Coming from a guy who sits at a computer all day trying to think of more ways to bash TNA, I think he's the only lazy one, RANT OVER!