Loser's Bracket #26: DirtyJose -vs- The Rattlesnake

[D-Man]

What era was more important to professional wrestling: The Attitude Era (1997-2001) or the 2nd Golden Era (Early 1980's - Early 1990's)?​

This is a fourth round, Loser's Bracket debate in the 2012 Wrestlezone Debater's League Tournament.

DirtyJose won the coin toss and will be the home debater. He's earned the right to choose EITHER which side of the debate he wants to argue OR who provides the opening statement. He can also defer this choice to his opponent. (The home debater has 24 hours to make this decision otherwise it is automatically deferred to his opponent.)

After these choices are made, the first post of the debate must be posted within the first 24 hours otherwise it will affect the starter's Punctuality portion of the judging. Debaters have 24 hours to respond to their opponent's post and the faster the response, the better chance you have to score higher point totals.

There is no maximum amount of posts for debaters in this round. Debaters can create unlimited replies until the allotted time of the debate runs out.

This thread is for DEBATERS ONLY and will end on Thursday at 2pm EST where judging will immediately begin. Judging must be finished no later than Saturday at 10pm EST.

Anyone that posts in this thread besides the debaters, league admins, and judges will be infracted!

Good luck to the participants.

 

[DirtyJosé]

I choose to debate that the Attitude Era was more important to Professional Wrestling.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

I choose to go second.

 

[DirtyJosé]

Why the Attitude Era is more important to Professional Wrestling​

The Monday Night War, which sparked up in the mid-90's, would become a full flame in 1997. By the time the war was won, four years later, professional wrestling had evolved into something new. The innovations of what would be known as "The Attitude Era" would become the bedrock for the business for years after.

During this chaotic growth period for Professional Wrestling, three men literally had their hands on the reigns. Their actions, and their ideas, would change the industry going forward. These men have helped define modern professional wrestling as we know it today.

Crash TV

Love him or hate him, Vince Russo's legacy in Professional Wrestling reaches deep into the successes and failures of this era. Crash TV meant making more time for out of the ring shenanigans. Extended backstage segments. Videos. Humor. Sexuality. Russo, aware of the growing base of "insiders" following dirtsheets online, believed in courting these fans with gimmicks and promos which played upon the concept of "kayfabe". His "New Blood" angle concept, in which a faction of disgruntled rookies rise to challenge established stars, has been replicated numerous times.

Russo's legacy is in the flavor of Professional Wrestling. He created a sense of "edginess" which promotions strive to replicate to this very day. And he was a critical part of the Monday Night War, helping shape the future of the industry.

Barely Legal​

In February of 1997, WWF viewers were likely introduced to ECW for the very first time. Due to an interpromotional crossover, Paul Heyman's grungy, dirty, visceral style of professional wrestling got to flirt with the mainstream viewing audience. The result? The people loved it...and they wanted more.

ECW would by 2001 proven to be a key player in the Monday Night War. Heyman's in-ring vision of high-octane performances mixed with ultra-violence would prove successful enough that the competition would end up emulating it, even hiring Heyman's own talent away. Heyman himself had a hand in a few different developments, ultimately landing in with the WWF and bringing his vision with him.

Heyman's legacy was in making wrestling "dangerous" again. His work is the definition of "Hardcore Wrestling" in this day and age, and is seen shows like WWE's recent "Extreme Rules" PPV. His work during the Attitude Era cemented his place in Professional Wrestling's history.

The Higher Power

Vince McMahon had already redefined the game before. Now he was under pressure. It's one thing taking daddy's company and buying up the competition aggressively; it's another thing entirely when someone else is picking you apart, and you are on the ropes, so close to seeing it all fall away.

McMahon went into 1997 backed into a corner and forced to think up a game plan. McMahon came out of 1997 focused and reborn, eager to evolve the game once again. This time, he was out for blood.

While guys like Russo and Heyman brought new concepts and new ideas into wrestling, it took a guy like McMahon to season it just right, to balance it, and to craft the perfect product out of it. With Russo lighting the fire under his ass, so to speak, McMahon helped forge a new identity, not only for the WWE but for Professional Wrestling in general. His new plan was to evolve the industry into "Sports Entertainment". His backroom dealings with ECW and Paul Heyman lead to WWE adapting to the "hardcore" style. With Russo's edgy content in Heyman's dangerous style, McMahon re-solidified WWE as the number one in the industry, and the gold standard for what televised wrestling should be.

The Attitude Era is more important wrestling than the 2nd Golden Era​

The Attitude Era is McMahon's true finest hour, where he was able to adapt and evolve to overcome the competition. In the process, the concept of televised wrestling was changed, and had become more inline with modern times. The Monday Night War was the final act in McMahon's vision of being the number one provider of "sports entertainment". The events of the time between 1997 and 2001 forever changed the way the industry worked and the product presented to us ever since. There is a reason the Attitude Era is still one of the hottest topics in wrestling discussion; it is quite simply one of the most important eras in the history of Professional Wrestling.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

The 2nd Golden Era was more important to professional wrestling than the Attitude Era

"He probably would have said, Vinny, what are you doing? You're gonna wind up at the bottom of a river" Vince McMahon from the documentary The UnReal Story of Professional Wrestling.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980s_professional_wrestling_boom

These are the words that Vince McMahon feels that his father would have said had he told him what he intended to do with the company. It was the younger McMahon's dream to make wrestling more about entertainment than it had ever been before and WWF the colossus in the world of professional wrestling but these were tasks that were easier said than done. The things that Vince McMahon set out to do when he purchased the company from his father on June 6, 1982 were percieved to be impossible, and with good reason.

Pro wrestling may have always been fake but till that point it had been promoted more as a sport than as an entertainment show. Furthermore, even though WWF and AWA had both broken away from the NWA, the territory system remained unchallenged thus far. Wrestling promotions had to be content promoting their shows in their own territories which prevented any wrestling promotion from breaking out of the pack.

Today WWE is a million dollar industry broadcasting it's shows in 30 different languages across 145 different countries. A large part of this staggering success that WWE was able to achieve in the intervening years was due to the wrestling boom that happened in the two eras that were seperated by a gap of roughly 6 years, the 2nd Golden Era and the Attitude Era. Ever since these two boom periods have happened, a debate has raged on, on the subject as to which era was more important to pro wrestling. In regards to this subject, I have always felt that the 2nd Golden Era was the more important one as during that period, both WWF and WCW achieved successes that the future eras would find, not only hard, but impossible to replicate. The Attitude Era was entertaining, exciting and profitable but it was in no shape or form more important to pro wrestling than the second golden era.

The reasons are as follows.

1. Eliminating the competition, going national and becoming a television phenomenon

Pro wrestling territories of US and Canada before the 2nd Golden Era​

The first thing that Vince did towards fulfilling his dream was syndicating WWF television shows to stations across the US in areas that were controlled by other territories. He also started selling videotapes of WWF shows outside the northeastern territory that the WWF controlled through his coliseum video company. By doing this, Vince broke the laws of regionalism that governed wrestling.

Vince then used the revenue generated from television deals and tape sales of his unique product to poach talents from other wrestling territories. He was able to get the one and only Hulk Hogan from the AWA and he would turn out to be the man that Vince would use as the face of his gimmicky and colorful form of pro wrestling. Other talents that he bought out were the likes of Roddy Piper, The Iron Shiek, Randy Savage, Andre The Giant and many more. It was also during this time that WWF started touring nationally.

Although, his gimmicky form of pro wrestling was met with opposition from some parts initially, it caught on after a while. One big moment which firmly established WWF was this:

[YOUTUBE]9psdw86uAUg[/YOUTUBE]​

The victory of the All American babyface Hulk Hogan over the nefarious foreign heel in Iron Sheik made Hogan a national hero and in the subsequent years he was to become the biggest celebrity that wrestling had ever seen.

Riding on the success of their gimmicky product and the demolition of the territory system, WWF managed to put as many as three TV shows on cable television by the end of 1983. They were All Star Wrestling, WWF Wrestling Challenge and Tuesday Night Titans. By the end of 1985, WWF was able to put Saturday Night Main Event on NBC which marked the first time since the 1950s that wrestling had been telecast on network television. SNME was a tremendous success with the March 14, 1987 version drawing a rating of 11.6, the highest rating till date for it's time slot. The success of SNME also led to Friday Night prime time specials called The Main Event. The first show of this telecast on February 5, 1988 drew a rating of 15.6 to make it the highest rated TV show in the history of professional wrestling till date. WWE also started off Prime Time Wrestling in 1985 which was a precursor to Monday Night Raw.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_WWE_programming

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWE_Saturday_Night's_Main_Event

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWF_Prime_Time_Wrestling

I ask you judges, has the Attitude Era been witness to such a huge leap made by the wrestling industry? No, it hasn't because frankly that is impossible. That is so because the 2nd Golden Era had firmly established WWF as a powerhouse in the world of wrestling by the time the Attitude Era came rolling by. The Attitude Era may have helped beat another equally big wrestling company but it was the 2nd Golden Era that helped WWF stand out from about 30 other territories who were operating at the same level with the WWF at that time. If you were to compare where the industry was before the 2nd golden era started to where the industry stood once the golden era was over, you would have to say that there has been no era as important to pro wrestling as the 2nd golden era.

2. Mainstream Popularity​

[YOUTUBE]5kMi9tvuuZY[/YOUTUBE]​

The above video is just one of the many examples that I can talk of to show you just how popular WWF had become in the 80's. This was possible due to the Rock n' Wrestling connection, a crossover between the popular music industry and the pro wrestling industry. It was the popularity of singer Cyndi Lauper that WWE utilized to the fullest. WWF superstars appeared in her videos while WWF booked her in a storyline with Lou Albano, who appeared in the video for the song, Girls Just want to have fun. Lauper appeared in WWF shows such as The Brawl to End it All, The War to Settle the score and the inagural WrestleMania.

But it wasn't just about Cyndi Lauper or Mr T and Muhammad Ali, all of whom appeared at the initial WrestleMania. It was during this time that Hulk Hogan, the All American hero whom Vince built his empire around became one of the most popular figures in the US. He appeared on the cover of several magazines like:

Sports Illustrated​

This isn't just where his popularity ended. He also had an animated series after himself.

[YOUTUBE]fu9TbilwhOw[/YOUTUBE]​

You could say that wrestling had not been as popular before and nor has it been so popular ever since. Yes, even the attitude era attracted some mainstream attention but you would have to say that the mainstream attention the WWF attracted during the second golden era was more pivotal to it's success. WWF were promoting an entirely new product as compared to what pro wrestling has been promoted as before the second golden age. The mainstream success guaranteed that what the WWF was promoting was what the people wanted to see.

3. WrestleMania and other Pay Per Views​

Let us now talk about the flagship show of the WWE. WrestleMania. It was another on of those things that was conceptualized during the 2nd golden era and became really big. The wrestling supercard had been around for a while with both NWA and WWF having put on a supercard earlier, but this was no ordinary supercard. This was a supercard on which the future of McMahon's vision of "Sports Entertainment" rested. Through his gimmicky and colourful product as well as the celebrity appearances, McMahon was targeting an audience that were not wrestling fans.

At the end of it WrestleMania was a resounding success with 19,121 fans attending the event and a million more watching it on closed circuit television. The success of WrestleMania not only brought mainstream success to the WWF but also gave them the confidence to promote their events in a PPV format. The first PPV wrestling event that WWF put out was "The Wrestling Classic" which featured a one night tournament and it was also a resounding success. Later, the same concept of a one night tournament was not only utilized for WrestleMania 4 but also for a PPV which became known as King Of The Ring which was a part of the WWF for years. I remember something significant happening at KotR 1996. Something related to the Attitude Era possibly.

Other big PPV's like Royal Rumble, SummerSlam and Survivor Series, all got conceptualized in the 2nd Golden Era of wrestling and continue to run strong to this date. Is there any doubt left as to which era was the most important one in the history of professional wrestling?

4. Pro wrestling changed forever and the change continues to show even in today's product.​

The 2nd Golden Era of Wrestling changed wrestling forever. Before the second golden era, pro wrestling did not use to feature so many gimmicks. Faces were guys who played to the rules while heels were the ones who broke them. Charsima was not a huge factor. The biggest faces preceding Hogan had all been very good technical wrestlers. In fact, let us have a look at the guy Hogan succeeded.

Bob Backlund. A soild technical wrestler if there ever was one but he was not this guy.

Hulk Hogan. Primarily a brawler. A guy who fought the good fight and fought till the last drop. A guy who was a hero among children and someone who was all about promoting the right message. Colourful, charismatic and righteous. Much like this guy.

These were not the only changes. The entire structure of a match changed. Gone were the days of technical slow paced bouts which would last an hour. An emphasis was placed on speed and strength rather than technical ability, two things which continue to attract the attention of wrestling fans even to this day. Wrestling had become a spectacle and it continues to be the same even to this day. Don't believe me, have a look below.

Hogan Bodyslamming Andre

John Cena at WrestleMania 25​

Want more? Quick what was the main event of WrestleMania this year. Oh yeah, John Cena vs Rock. The superstar of the past taking on the superstar of the present times. That reminds me of:

And finally, let us talk about one of the greatest matches of modern times. Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker at WrestleMania 25. A match that featured nearfall after nearfall after nearfall. That reminds me of.

[YOUTUBE]Tv3OBWwxX_0[/YOUTUBE]​

Blood, boobs and curses, three things that defined the attitude era are no longer a part of today's product but the things that the golden era defined, are. There is no doubt as to which era has influenced wrestling more and is thus more important.

To sum up, the 2nd golden era was the one which defined wrestling as it is today. Before the second golden era, WWF operated at a regional level. But with the help of a cartoonish and a gimmicky product centered around entertaining the fans and giving them their money's worth, WWE rose in prominence and was able to become a global juggernaut in the world of professional wrestling. The things that happened in the 2nd Golden Era continue to influence wrestling to even this day, much more than the Attitude Era. The things that were created in the 2nd Golden era continue to be a part of the WWE even in the present day. When we consider where WWF was before the start of the second golden era and what became of the WWF by the end of it, there is no doubt about the fact that the second golden era was more important to professional wrestling.

 

[DirtyJosé]

1. Eliminating the competition, going national and becoming a television phenomenon​

I ask you judges, has the Attitude Era been witness to such a huge leap made by the wrestling industry? No, it hasn't because frankly that is impossible. That is so because the 2nd Golden Era had firmly established WWF as a powerhouse in the world of wrestling by the time the Attitude Era came rolling by. The Attitude Era may have helped beat another equally big wrestling company but it was the 2nd Golden Era that helped WWF stand out from about 30 other territories who were operating at the same level with the WWF at that time. If you were to compare where the industry was before the 2nd golden era started to where the industry stood once the golden era was over, you would have to say that there has been no era as important to pro wrestling as the 2nd golden era.

In here I read only your misunderstanding of the political environment leading into the Attitude Era. The WWF wasn't the top dog it thought it would be forever following the end of the 2nd Golden Era. Hulkamania was not contagious, it seems, and beyond a few other big names the WWF had not much to stand on. On top of this, the wholesome mainstream image McMahon cultivated throughout the previous era failed him.

WWF was cutting pay across the board, and the rise of WCW as a serious contender in the mid 90's placed McMahon's dream in great peril. WWF managed to usher in the era of promotion on a national level, but his "Rock n' Wrestling" formula proved ineffective in the long run. McMahon set out to dominate the national scene, yet by 1997 he faced a challenge greater than any he had faced before.

WCW wasn't just "another equally big wrestling company". WCW was the closest rival the WWF had. For the longest time, WCW sat in second place, unable to make ground against a WWF juggernaut. But as the WWF lost steam, WCW started the path towards modernization. By 1997, WCW had WWF against the wall. WCW had long been the largest obstacle to McMahon, whether it was racing Jim Crockett Promotions in establishing a national scene or having his veteran stars signed away for better money by Ted Turner is much the same way he himself had poached on the territories. 1997 is when WCW came the closest to dethroning WWF permanently.

2. Mainstream Popularity​

You could say that wrestling had not been as popular before and nor has it been so popular ever since. Yes, even the attitude era attracted some mainstream attention but you would have to say that the mainstream attention the WWF attracted during the second golden era was more pivotal to it's success. WWF were promoting an entirely new product as compared to what pro wrestling has been promoted as before the second golden age. The mainstream success guaranteed that what the WWF was promoting was what the people wanted to see.

Except when those winds left it's sails by the early 90's. "Hulkamania" never caught on with anyone else the way they hoped it would. While they still possessed amazing talent, the WWF way of doing things was clearly not working. On top of this, it faced legal troubles which did significant damage to Professional Wrestling's reputation with the mainstream media.

What's clear above all else was that people just didn't want what WWF was selling anymore. McMahon's moves and growth during the 80's is important, but what's also important to remember is that everything went their way back then. By 1997, McMahon had real competition, with real stakes, and the resulting "war" defined what modern televised wrestling would be for years to come.

3. WrestleMania and other Pay Per Views​

Let us now talk about the flagship show of the WWE. WrestleMania. It was another on of those things that was conceptualized during the 2nd golden era and became really big. The wrestling supercard had been around for a while with both NWA and WWF having put on a supercard earlier, but this was no ordinary supercard. This was a supercard on which the future of McMahon's vision of "Sports Entertainment" rested. Through his gimmicky and colourful product as well as the celebrity appearances, McMahon was targeting an audience that were not wrestling fans.

And while Wrestlemania has somewhat retained that "big time" aura, the rest of the PPV line up never really took form until the late 90's. It is then when WCW and WWF settled on the concept of monthly PPV shows. The awkward infrequent "WWF In Your House" shows of the mid-90's were replaced with regular monthly shows. This development maximized the money a promotion could bring in.

Developing and promoting PPV events on such a scale is certainly important, but I feel what was more important was the development of the PPV cycle. This brought in the income necessary for any modern wrestling promotion to survive on a national scale. The Attitude Era may not have pioneered the business of Pay-Per-View, but it revolutionized it in a way not even McMahon could have foreseen in 1985.

4. Pro wrestling changed forever and the change continues to show even in today's product.​

The 2nd Golden Era of Wrestling changed wrestling forever. Before the second golden era, pro wrestling did not use to feature so many gimmicks. Faces were guys who played to the rules while heels were the ones who broke them. Charsima was not a huge factor. The biggest faces preceding Hogan had all been very good technical wrestlers.

Charisma has ALWAYS been a big part of what made any performer a draw, and to think otherwise is foolish. Also foolish is to beat about hinting that Hogan was the first big muscular guy with a boat load of charisma to reach the top in wrestling. Those traits aren't unique to the 80's; have you never heard of Bruno Sammartino?

Sammartino holds the record of the longest World Championship Reign in Professional Wrestling at over 7 years. He is known as a living legend, and his work with the WWWF was certainly an inspiration to "Hulkamania". Anyway, the point is that Sammartino, one of the biggest wrestling stars ever, is widely remembered for making up for a lack of technical training (as compared to peers like Lou Thesz) with his brawling style, power moves, and astonishing charisma.

Does that sound like "changed forever"? Sounds more like aping the past to me.

Hulk Hogan. Primarily a brawler. A guy who fought the good fight and fought till the last drop. A guy who was a hero among children and someone who was all about promoting the right message. Colourful, charismatic and righteous. Much like this guy.

Oh, how McMahon tried to get Hulkamania to strike again. Ultimate Warrior wasn't it. Savage wasn't it. None of them could replicate what Hogan did. In 1997, McMahon found the new top babyface superstar in Steve Austin. Austin was everything Hogan wasn't; dark, broody, violent, and vulgar. Above all else, what drew people to Austin was his "realism": he wasn't an over-grown boy scout. He wasn't a cartoon character. He was real and visceral. He was believable. He was easy to relate to.

And there it was; one of the many revelations of the 90's was that you didn't need a "Hogan" gimmick or monster gimmick to get over. You could be more human. That was the formula. And suddenly, guys like The Rock, Mick Foley, and HHH became overnight legends.

You can point out the similarities between Cena and Hogan all day long, but the argument doesn't really lend itself towards the Hogan gimmick (and really much of anything on the creative side of things from that era) holding much of a legacy into the future when it took around 20 years for anything resembling "Hulkamania" to pop up again, and even then he has as much in common with Hogan as he does with The Rock, an Attitude Era superstar often classified in the same level as Hogan.

These were not the only changes. The entire structure of a match changed. Gone were the days of technical slow paced bouts which would last an hour. An emphasis was placed on speed and strength rather than technical ability, two things which continue to attract the attention of wrestling fans even to this day. Wrestling had become a spectacle and it continues to be the same even to this day. Don't believe me, have a look below.

Want more? Quick what was the main event of WrestleMania this year. Oh yeah, John Cena vs Rock. The superstar of the past taking on the superstar of the present times. That reminds me of:

And finally, let us talk about one of the greatest matches of modern times. Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker at WrestleMania 25. A match that featured nearfall after nearfall after nearfall. That reminds me of.

Spoiler

Feats of strength in ring had long been a part of wrestling, going back to the carnival days. Hogan was hardly the first man to body slam Andre to get over.​

Spoiler

El Canek, a 6 year veteran and rising star of Lucha Libre defeated "retired" wrestling legend Lou Thesz. Oh hey, he also body slammed Andre before Hogan did.​

Spoiler

Throughout the entire build for that WM match, the tagline used was "End of an Era". That is how people remember it, and why it was a success. Of course, that "Era" mentioned happens to be The Attitude Era.​

Blood, boobs and curses, three things that defined the attitude era are no longer a part of today's product but the things that the golden era defined, are. There is no doubt as to which era has influenced wrestling more and is thus more important.

In 2010, WWE launched an angle featuring younger superstars who felt betrayed by the system. Their group, the Nexus, was a play lifted straight out of the Vince Russo "New Blood" play book. Bits of the concept were developed in the WWF's D-Generation X faction, but the real juicy bits came with Russo's work in WCW and the New Blood angle proper. Even when many remember Russo with scorn, his legacy on the business can still be felt.

Long after the closure of the original ECW, Paul Heyman's Attitude Era creation still influences the wrestling of today. WWE and TNA both have promoted "hardcore wrestling" in the vein of what Heyman brought to television in the late 90's. Note that in the case of the WWE, the influential nature of Heyman's work is plainly visible in the use of the word "Extreme" as an obvious reference to "Extreme Championship Wrestling". TNA has even gone a step further and created PPV events as disguised ECW reunion shows.

[YOUTUBE]eVLve3KxNSc[/YOUTUBE]​

Even in a time where WWE is swinging to a more kid-friendly nature, they slip in the naughty language from time to time. They know it excites some people. I mean, I'm not gonna argue that cursing is somehow super important to success, but I will call you out on being wrong again. Still a part of the product, despite what you think.

WWE rose in prominence and was able to become a global juggernaut in the world of professional wrestling. The things that happened in the 2nd Golden Era continue to influence wrestling to even this day, much more than the Attitude Era. The things that were created in the 2nd Golden era continue to be a part of the WWE even in the present day.

The boom of the 80's was not enough to keep wrestling in the spotlight forever. McMahon stumbled through the early 90's. JCP spent themselves into ruin trying to compete with McMahon. Tools like PPV events had been realized, but their full potential as a revenue source still hadn't been utilized. It was the changes of the late 90's which set wrestling on the course it is now.

 

[D-Man]

Ok, this debate has concluded. Judges may begin their scoring.

 

[CH David]

Clarity - It's a toss up. Rattlesnake did what he does in his open. It was excellent. I'm giving him this point based on that. I liked both from Jose though.

Point - The Rattlesnake

Punctuality - While Jose was indeed late, Rattlesnake missed his chance to reply in the time after Jose's second post. Be it work or what not, but still. Gotta give credit to the guy with more posts in this situation.

Point - DirtyJosé

Informative - I like both use of pictures and videos from both. I think Rattlesnake had more, and he had a few links in there to help his argument.

Point - The Rattlesnake

Persuasion - I'm going with Jose on this one. While the 2nd Golden Era was huge for professional wrestling, Vince wasn't able to sustain that success after Hogan left. WCW was kicking his ass in ratings and Vince was potentially close to going out of business. Coming back from that deficit with a new huge face in Stone Cold was what he needed to keep the WWF alive at the time. If they go under, WCW buys them out, and we probably get more shitty quality wrestling that we saw from them in '99 and '00.

Points - DirtyJosé

CH David scores this DirtyJosé 3, The Rattlesnake 2.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

Clarity: Going to go with Jose here. Similar styles but I felt Jose presented his stuff better overall with more stuff fitting in also.

Punctuality: Jose for posting twice really.

Informative: Rattlesnake had more at his disposal and used them well overall.

Persuasion: I agreed with Jose more and felt the argument about rebuilding an empire being more difficult, especially with a bigger, more wealthy competition was superior though Rattlesnake's efforts were solid.

FunKay Scores It: DirtyJose 4, Rattlesnake 1

 

[Dagger Dias]

Clarity: Rattlesnake. That opener had everything a strong opening statement could need and it was very well put together.

Punctuality: Jose. Both had problems in this category but Jose at least got a response in before time ran out.

Informative: Rattlesnake. He brought in excellent sources of information. Jose did a good job here too but Rattlesnake's info was superior.

Persuasion: Jose. This could have been much closer if Rattlesnake had gotten his response in on time. His opening was very strong, but without any responses, it goes to Jose who had a rather convincing response to his opponent's opening statement.

I score it as.... Rattlesnake 2, Jose 3.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Clarity- I like Rattlesnake's opener a little better. That's literally all I can go by.

- Rattlesnake

Punctuality- Jose, I suppose. Though both guys could have done better.

- DirtyJose

Informative- I think Snake's information was more tangible, though once again, both were pretty good.

-DirtyJose

Persuasion- Jose gets it. Snake did really well, but he only got the one post in and never had the chance to offer a rebuttal. Things could have gone either way, but there just wasn't enough from Rattlesnake.

-DirtyJose

Nate scores it Rattlesnake 2, DirtyJose 3.

 

[D-Man]

Congratulations to DirtyJose who defeats The Rattlesnake by a score of 13-7. He will move onto the Loser's bracket semi-final #28 to face hatehabsforever. The winner of that match will move onto the Loser's bracket championship to face Stormtrooper.

Unfortunately, we must say goodbye to the Rattlesnake. We thank you for your efforts and wish you the best in all your future endeavors.