Lesnar VS ?

[Jack-Hammer]

Since Brock Lesnar defeated Roman Reigns at WrestleMania, an outcome that nobody was really expecting, it basically leaves Lesnar without any viable challengers for the WWE Universal Championship. Reigns has another shot at the title at the Greatest Royal Rumble event in Saudi Arabia in a few weeks and the match will be held inside a steel cage; while it's possible that the title might change hands there, it's not all that likely. So if Lesnar retains in Saudi Arabia, what's next for him?

I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks this but off the top of my head, the only possibly logical answer is Bobby Lashley. As we saw, Lashley made his debut on Raw last night in what may have been the official Christening of Elias as a comedy jobber going forward, seeing as how it was the second night in a row for it to happen. Lashley is one of the handful of guys the past several years to leave Impact a bigger star than when he first arrived and everything about him screams alpha male, which is a characteristic that gives Vince McMahon round the clock wood.

Like Lesnar, Lashley has had success in mixed martial arts but their successes have been for different reasons. Lesnar's career took place in the UFC while most of Lashley's success came in much smaller companies like Super Fight League, Titan Fighting Championships, Shark Fights and Strikeforce. Since late 2014, Lashley's competed exclusively for Bellator, which is sort of looked upon as the WCW of MMA here in the states. Lesnar made a ton of mainstream headlines in the UFC and generated a ton of controversy while garnering a mixed win-loss record of 5-3-1 while Lashley has a stellar record of 15-2. Lesnar made huge sums of money while Lashley, probably not so much if you compared the two as UFC's revenue is just simply on a much higher plane.

At any rate, Lesnar vs. Lashley has the sort of alpha male vs. alpha male feel that Vince strives for. Personally, I think I'd rather see Strowman be the guy but, for whatever reason, Vince just hasn't pulled the trigger on the guy and that's unfortunate considering he's one of the most over stars in the entire company.

 

[d_henderson1810]

Since Brock Lesnar defeated Roman Reigns at WrestleMania, an outcome that nobody was really expecting, it basically leaves Lesnar without any viable challengers for the WWE Universal Championship. Reigns has another shot at the title at the Greatest Royal Rumble event in Saudi Arabia in a few weeks and the match will be held inside a steel cage; while it's possible that the title might change hands there, it's not all that likely. So if Lesnar retains in Saudi Arabia, what's next for him?

I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks this but off the top of my head, the only possibly logical answer is Bobby Lashley. As we saw, Lashley made his debut on Raw last night in what may have been the official Christening of Elias as a comedy jobber going forward, seeing as how it was the second night in a row for it to happen. Lashley is one of the handful of guys the past several years to leave Impact a bigger star than when he first arrived and everything about him screams alpha male, which is a characteristic that gives Vince McMahon round the clock wood.

Like Lesnar, Lashley has had success in mixed martial arts but their successes have been for different reasons. Lesnar's career took place in the UFC while most of Lashley's success came in much smaller companies like Super Fight League, Titan Fighting Championships, Shark Fights and Strikeforce. Since late 2014, Lashley's competed exclusively for Bellator, which is sort of looked upon as the WCW of MMA here in the states. Lesnar made a ton of mainstream headlines in the UFC and generated a ton of controversy while garnering a mixed win-loss record of 5-3-1 while Lashley has a stellar record of 15-2. Lesnar made huge sums of money while Lashley, probably not so much if you compared the two as UFC's revenue is just simply on a much higher plane.

At any rate, Lesnar vs. Lashley has the sort of alpha male vs. alpha male feel that Vince strives for. Personally, I think I'd rather see Strowman be the guy but, for whatever reason, Vince just hasn't pulled the trigger on the guy and that's unfortunate considering he's one of the most over stars in the entire company.

Having Strowman come across as all "cuddly" by teaming with children doesn't exactly scream "Alpha Male!"

 

[Spidey Revivey]

Sure it does, it shows he can do anything on his own, which was sorta the point while also giving kids at home that feeling that if they go to a wrestling show, maybe they'll get picked by a wrestler and fulfill their dreams. That and it was for less than a day. Not a huge hit to Braun's manhood.

But anyways I think it's very likely Roman Reigns walks out of Saudi Arabia as the champion. Maybe there is something to him being liked more outside of the states. Maybe WWE want to make it an event to remember. Who knows? I don't really see anyone stepping up to face Brock except Lashley or Strowman. Either one are good choices but I just got that feeling they want to see if the crowd reacts positive over there.

 

[Logisticalbooker86]

I know your thread is predicated on the "if" of Lesnar retaining in Saudi Arabia, but I really think Roman Reigns is going to win the title in that cage match. I didn't think there was any chance until Samoa Joe cut that scathing promo on Reigns, but it just screamed redemption to me.

If I am wrong, I think Lashley is the correct answer by default. If online reports are accurate, Lesnar is set to go away again for a while after "The Greatest Royal Rumble" so maybe Strowman wins that abomination and he is positioned to finally take down Brock Lesnar at a later date.

Lesnar is an attraction, but as a fan, I am tired of the Universal Championship being off of TV.

EDIT - boo, I just said literally the same thing as Spidey. Oh well.

 

[stingray11214]

Since Brock Lesnar defeated Roman Reigns at WrestleMania, an outcome that nobody was really expecting, it basically leaves Lesnar without any viable challengers for the WWE Universal Championship. Reigns has another shot at the title at the Greatest Royal Rumble event in Saudi Arabia in a few weeks and the match will be held inside a steel cage; while it's possible that the title might change hands there, it's not all that likely. So if Lesnar retains in Saudi Arabia, what's next for him?

I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks this but off the top of my head, the only possibly logical answer is Bobby Lashley. As we saw, Lashley made his debut on Raw last night in what may have been the official Christening of Elias as a comedy jobber going forward, seeing as how it was the second night in a row for it to happen. Lashley is one of the handful of guys the past several years to leave Impact a bigger star than when he first arrived and everything about him screams alpha male, which is a characteristic that gives Vince McMahon round the clock wood.

Like Lesnar, Lashley has had success in mixed martial arts but their successes have been for different reasons. Lesnar's career took place in the UFC while most of Lashley's success came in much smaller companies like Super Fight League, Titan Fighting Championships, Shark Fights and Strikeforce. Since late 2014, Lashley's competed exclusively for Bellator, which is sort of looked upon as the WCW of MMA here in the states. Lesnar made a ton of mainstream headlines in the UFC and generated a ton of controversy while garnering a mixed win-loss record of 5-3-1 while Lashley has a stellar record of 15-2. Lesnar made huge sums of money while Lashley, probably not so much if you compared the two as UFC's revenue is just simply on a much higher plane.

At any rate, Lesnar vs. Lashley has the sort of alpha male vs. alpha male feel that Vince strives for. Personally, I think I'd rather see Strowman be the guy but, for whatever reason, Vince just hasn't pulled the trigger on the guy and that's unfortunate considering he's one of the most over stars in the entire company.

Do not be surprised if Brock drops the belt in Jeddah. The Saudis shelled out a great deal of cash to make the Greatest Royal Rumble happen. Do not be surprised if a little of that cash winds up in Lesnar's account to drop the belt.

As for Stowman: That match he had was absolutely stupid. Not only did you damage The Bar, but Strowman took a hit as well. Granted, I always saw Strowman as a "Mighty Igor-type" wrestler. Teddy bear-ish, warm and cuddly with a little bit of a mean streak. Pulling out Nicholas Cone, whose only connection to the business was that his Dad was a ref, not only cheapened the match, but cheapened the tag straps as well. Now, before anyone screams about Kenny Omega, you need to remember this: the BIG difference between Nicholas Cone and Haruka is that Haruka was a Trainee for Stardom. Haruka was an actual Joshi. She was not some kid from the audience. And if you think people are going to forget, they have YouTube to remind them.

 

[Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.]

Seth Rollins. It's about time to start building someone else. Seth Rollins is the closest thing they got to face of the company material. In ring skills, mic skills, age, look. He has all the potential in the world. Roman Reigns has competed in four Wrestlemania main event failures in a row. Lesnar-Reigns is memorable mostly because of Rollins. HHH-Reigns was a snoozefest. Undertaker-Reigns was horrible. Lesnar-Reigns II had the crowd not caring. What does Vince want? Fans to walk out before the main event begins?

The whole Attitude Era lasted four years. That's how long this Roman thing has been going on. Even Cena didn't face so much apathy. Cena was a made-legend in 2008-2009. Four years after the start of his face push.

That's why, Seth Rollins has to be the one to dethrone Lesnar. Nobody else. Lesnar goes over Reigns in their cage match. Rollins takes the belt either at MITB or Summerslam. Champion vs Champion. It will be good for Roman's character, it will be good for the fans, the company and Rollins himself.

 

[Sexcellence of Sexecution]

Well it seems likely that we will get Bobby Lashley vs. Brock Lesnar at some point, but to me the money match is Brock Lesnar vs. Daniel Bryan.

Bryan and Lesnar would be the ultimate David and Goliath story. Bryan is one of the few true babyfaces the WWE has, and he's really the best at being an underdog babyface. Against Lesnar, he's a fucking underdog. You've got the size difference for one, with Lesnar throwing Bryan around the ring like he did to Styles. But then there's also the history of Bryan's neck injury's and how Lesnar has been built as this killing machine. Heyman could hype up that Bryan would literally be risking his career and his future with his family by stepping into the ring with Lesnar and it would be 100% believable. That's how shit takes off in wrestling. The angle for this match would be the hottest thing on the show, and the blueprint for the match itself already exists because we've seen Lesnar wrestle a smaller, faster opponent in AJ Styles and they had a great match. One of Lesnar's best.

So I'm all in on Bryan vs. Lesnar and I think we will get this match eventually. It would be the ultimate feel-good moment for the underdog Bryan to overcome the odds and slay the beast to win the Universal Title.

Or Reigns will just beat Lesnar in Saudi Arabia.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Do not be surprised if Brock drops the belt in Jeddah. The Saudis shelled out a great deal of cash to make the Greatest Royal Rumble happen. Do not be surprised if a little of that cash winds up in Lesnar's account to drop the belt.

As for Stowman: That match he had was absolutely stupid. Not only did you damage The Bar, but Strowman took a hit as well. Granted, I always saw Strowman as a "Mighty Igor-type" wrestler. Teddy bear-ish, warm and cuddly with a little bit of a mean streak. Pulling out Nicholas Cone, whose only connection to the business was that his Dad was a ref, not only cheapened the match, but cheapened the tag straps as well. Now, before anyone screams about Kenny Omega, you need to remember this: the BIG difference between Nicholas Cone and Haruka is that Haruka was a Trainee for Stardom. Haruka was an actual Joshi. She was not some kid from the audience. And if you think people are going to forget, they have YouTube to remind them.

First off, the Strowman/Nicholas thing did NO such thing to the Bar... It was a match designed to play around Sheamus' increasingly serious neck injury... you could see when they did the shoulder spot how much agony he was in. He is pretty much done, they are winding him down so they don''t have 2 go down at the same time with neck problems... Paige was last night, Sheamus goes to perhaps Summerslam and loses a career match to Cesaro. Sheamus would have likely enjoyed that he got to do an unusual and memorable match like that.

As for the main question, realistically they're setting up Brock v Lashley for next year... they'll want to build it over time, based on their MMA history as much as their WWE history. They won't just "push" Bobby straight to the title, as he'll have to serve some "penance" like Brock did and perhaps lose a match to someone.

Reigns isn't cut and dried to win... it's equally possible he goes to Smackdown as RAW is now top heavy with big guys and names. Remember Zayn and Owens may well be moving as well as guys like Orton and Roode who could move to RAW and balance things out. Reigns going to SD and facing Bryan and AJ would be more interesting to fans than him holding the Red belt...

The bizarrely logical person to actually beat Brock in the short term is... Broken Matt.

Sounds crazy, but if somehow he is able to pull it off, with the assist from Bray, Jeff and the whole thing... or from Roman on his way out the door to SD. it plays into Brock "walking out" for a while... Lashley of course destroys Matt... but it solves a problem, moving from Reigns as your top guy to Lashley without having to job Roman out... Matt gets a token run of a month or so before the era of Lashley begins and him losing in that way won't hurt him in the slightest. Let's face it, is Broken Matt with the belt as a transition any worse than it being off TV on Brock's couch or around Roman's waist getting booed into oblivion.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Bryan and Lesnar would be the ultimate David and Goliath story. Bryan is one of the few true babyfaces the WWE has, and he's really the best at being an underdog babyface. Against Lesnar, he's a fucking underdog. You've got the size difference for one, with Lesnar throwing Bryan around the ring like he did to Styles. But then there's also the history of Bryan's neck injury's and how Lesnar has been built as this killing machine. Heyman could hype up that Bryan would literally be risking his career and his future with his family by stepping into the ring with Lesnar and it would be 100% believable.

Don't forget about Lesnar opening guys up like Orton and Reigns. Imagine how this scene could play out with Bryan. It was a vicious moment with Reigns. The sympathy and emotion of seeing Lesnar open up Bryan could be magnificent. Bryan overcoming those shots and blood to defeat the beast and send him packing.

Maybe Lesnar cutting open Reigns was strictly to make Reigns more sympathetic and tougher looking but I'd like to think it is part of a bigger story. Maybe involving Bryan.

 

[Mr.Maikeru_Sawyer]

TWO WORDS

Bobby Lashley

nothing else needs to be said. MMA VS MMA for the Universal Title - Summerslam

 

[wwe fan2009]

Bobby Lashley, pretty much a lock, but it needs to happen this year and not wait until WM 35

 

[Kodo Sawaki]

Word around is that after Wrestlemania match Vince was unhappy with Lesnar and after verbal altercation Lesnar threw Universal Championship to the wall and left. And that Shane stood up to Lesnar and wanted to fight. Now, that could be just dirtsheets but if its true Lesnar could lose to Saudi Arabia and Samoa Joe vs Samoan Joe is next title feud.

Lashley this soon for the title, just cant see it. Strowman may be the answer considering he just threw Tag Team Championship away but who knows what they plan to do with him now.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Having Strowman come across as all "cuddly" by teaming with children doesn't exactly scream "Alpha Male!"

No, but it does show that Strowman can make a diamond out of a dog turd. What I mean by that is that it shows that Strowman is someone that can do a broad variety of roles and retain his popularity, that he has layers to who and what he can actually be. Stuff like having a grade school kid as your "tag team partner" and winning the Tag Team Championship with him is something that most wrestlers just can't really pull off without the majority of fans just rolling their eyes at how idiotic it is. I'm not at all happy what they did with the tag titles, it might've been different if it was a terminally ill kid getting a really special wish fulfilled instead of it being the kid of one of the referees. I mean, I could at least understand the why even if I still didn't agree with it but that wasn't the case. However, the fans at WrestleMania and Raw last night ate it up so I may very well be in the minority on it. Considering the "monstrous" things we've seen Strowman do, this wasn't any sort of big shot to his manhood and I don't think that'll be a worry if they keep things like this few and far in-between.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I agree with the Daniel Bryan sentiments, there's real potential in it if they build it up over a long period of time. There's a lot of fantasy booking here so just bear with me.

Let's say for the sake of argument that it's a plan they have in mind for Survivor Series but they start the build for it this summer. Bryan and Lesnar have a confrontation in the ring, a verbal one, though Lesnar brushes off Bryan's challenge, maybe even laughs it off, and leaves the ring. They keep it short and sweet so as not to take too much focus off the current title program that Lesnar would have. Bryan confronts Lesnar again the next time he appears and things get a bit more heated, maybe with Bryan saying some things that get under Lesnar's skin and things get physical. It doesn't last long, just long enough for Bryan to take a few minor shots from Lesnar but deliver enough of his own to knock him out of the ring and as he's about to climb back in, the locker room empties to keep them back. The next time Daniel Bryan has a match scheduled, whether at a ppv or on TV, Lesnar shows up despite not being advertised ahead of time and jumps Bryan from behind and delivers a hellacious, vicious beatdown. Anyone who attemps to pull him off Bryan takes a trip to Suplex City before Lesnar goes right back to pounding Bryan. In order to avoid the risk of suffering a concussion, maybe Lesnar doesn't go off with the punches like we saw with Roman Reigns but Bryan could blade at some point. If it's a ppv, Lesnar F5's Bryan through all the announce tables, maybe on the steel steps as well, etc.. Basically, Bryan is beaten half to death and is kept out of action for a while to be medically evaluated. I was thinking that maybe a month after the incident, they could show a video on Raw of Bryan undergoing an evaluation at the WWE Performance Center and Lesnar appears and beats up Bryan again. Maybe every week for the next month, we get another brief video package of Bryan recovering, maybe in the midst of a "deep depression" due to being "hurt" and being "set back" because of Lesnar's attack until he shows up on Raw and challenges Lesnar again only for everyone from Cena to Reigns to whomever to try to talk him out of it. Lesnar eventually accepts, there's maybe one more physical altercation between them that comes out more even this time and we set it up for Survivor Series.

I get that some people aren't into Daniel Bryan but the simple fact of the matter is that he's insanely popular, his popularity has never really died down so this is something that could potentially work. The potential for a great match with a great story coming off of a great build featuring a beloved babyface against a vicious heel is all there.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Worrying part is if Lashley was signed as a "ploy" on Brock... kind of "I can replace you with Ronda and Lashley" could backfire...

The big problem Lashley faces (no..not that...) is the Trump connection... a lot of people will hold that match and his being on Team Trump against him unfairly... people are idiots and I can see some backlash on him for it.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

First, i see Reigns winning the belt at the saudi arabia show because from what i've read, the plan at mania was to change the title at mania but vince called a audible when he realize that the fans couldn't cares less about the match. So by doing so, he just postpone Reigns title win for a few week until he didn't have to deal with a crowd full of hardcore fans that would have shit all over Reigns wins.

So what's next for lesnar after dropping the belt, i fell, he might just disappear for a while. Deal with whatever he has to deal with to come out of retirement and enter the USADA testing pool and serve what's left of his suspension, then comeback around summerslam to start a feud with Lashley and then leave again until he can get back in the UFC for one more match and probably go and comeback for mania season.

 

[enviousdominous]

The WWE is in a creative rut it seems.

It seems like they desperately wanted to tell the story of Roman Reigns beating Brock Lesnar for the Universal Championship without any shenanigans or heel turns. Why they didn't just do that at WrestleMania, I don't know. The crowd would have gotten mad and fussed, sure. It's not like that hasn't happened before with Roman's previous Universal Championship reigns. I think they should have just gotten it over with.

I'm thinking that the decision to have Brock win at WrestleMania was due in part to knowledge of the show in Saudi Arabia coming up. Saudi Arabia is apparently investing hundreds of billions of dollars in their 2030 social reform program, so I imagine that the WWE is wisely choosing to save a title win for Roman for a show that looks to make a shit ton of money for the WWE (hint, hint, buy WWE stock) and yet have limited exposure to the smarks who boo him at every opportunity. I imagine that fans in Saudi Arabia will be wanting to see someone of Roman's apparent ethnicity take down the pasty looking muscle-head from the west.

If Roman doesn't win at The Greatest Royal Rumble, then the only option in my opinion would be to have Brock lose the Universal Championship in a triple threat or something like that. Having Bobby Lashley just stomp up and beat him doesn't make much sense to me. Lashley is a legit badass, but his accomplishments don't hold a candle to Brock's accomplishments. Unless the WWE plans to build Lashley for the better part of a year, I don't think it would be wise to put him over Brock.

 

[XXJJ]

Its still got to be Reigns, right? I mean the whole point of all these matches is one day for Reigns to conquer the beast and become champ. Otherwise it doesn't make sense to keep feeding Reigns to Brock. Lol

BobbyLashley makes the most sense. Let these two kill each other in the ring!

Bryan/Brock would be the classic underdog babyface vs monster heel angle, but idk with DB injury history I'm not sure Brock is an ideal opponent. Let him do his thing with the guys on the blue brand imo.

 

[Glacier]

It could be Braun Strowman.

 

[sulfureo]

no one think about Finn Balor? He was UNiversal Champion. He never loose his title. He never fight against Lesnar. I agree that the really dream match is Lesnar vs Bryan, but even Balor is a very good chance

 

[kwig2121]

Reigns wins in Saudi Arabia. The seed was set with the Samoa Joe promo. No need to go back to that feud without the title being on the line. This will allow a more meaner, tweener Roman to take flight in physical feud with Joe.

I believe that's what Lesnar was mad about. The fact the crowd was so terrible towards his match with the beach balls, this is terrible chants, and then the audible. Lesnar had the same situation with his 1st Goldberg match many years ago and while he only cares about money he still knows to promote himself as a big MMA returning star, he needs good press. So having a bad "fake" match on the biggest PPV show of the year is bad for business for Brock.

That said. He loses to Reigns because he doesn't have to get pinned in the steel cage. Reigns just escapes. Roman goes on to feud with Samoa Joe, Braun Strowman, Kevin Owens, and builds towards eventual feuds with a heel Ambrose.

Lesnar just becomes an attraction, that has a big Summer Slam match with Lashley which he will win and use that to springboard for a UFC fight early 2019.

If you haven't learned Vince will never put outside talent, see Asuka, Shinske, over his creations. ( I know AJ from TNA but he is way more over with the WWE machine).

So Lesnar will never just put guys over. Reigns wins where he won't get booed out of the building because of the excitement of having a big wrestling card out of the country.

 

[Vintage Punk]

Brock is gonna drop the title to Reigns at the Saudi Arabia PPV. Why? Because Vince knew, since he had no plans for Reigns to turn heel, if Reigns won at WM he would've been booed even more so than he already did. Reigns probably won't receive as many boos from the audience over there and since it would be a title changing hands, he would probably receive more cheers than normal. #theydoitforRoman

 

[Starkist]

Lesnar vs Lashley. The Beast Incarnate vs The Destroyer it simply sells itself. Putting the title on Reigns, the man that couldn't retire the Undertaker even though he claims he did, makes no more sense. Reigns should go to Smackdown and let Lesnar keep the belt until Summerslam where the Destroy takes the title off the waist of Lesnar.

 

[adam]

Bobby Lashley is going to be the man but not right away..

One problem with putting the belt on Roman now is that he just got creamed by Lesnar at WM. If Brock has gotten over by the skin of his teeth like the match he had with CM Punk it would be one thing but hitting all of those f-5's and busting him up screams more of the same. Likely that was the problem Vince had afterward for its now hard to sell Roman as a serious challenger after the beating he got at WM.

 

[Radical]

Firstly, you gotta think with this Greatest Royal Rumble first ever in Saudi Arabia like this, there's gonna be something huge happen!

Other than the rumble, a Universal Title change would be the big, historic thing that could happen. So, it likely will.

More shocked than ever if Lesnar still beats Reigns after this Greatest Royal Rumble. I know that Lesnar signed a new deal like 3-years I think and that surprised me too, because I thought this would be the year for Lesnar to part ways finally with WWE, but apparently not.

So going with the premise that Reigns becomes Universal Champ at GRR and Lesnar moves into a part-time 'special attraction' fighter for WWE then the question can be asked: Lesnar vs ???


I have no real interest in Lesnar as Universal Champ anymore. I don't even think he serves much purpose in WWE in general anymore, but I guess I could be in the minority on that opinion. To be honest, I'd probably loosen up my thoughts on Lesnar a little bit more if he at least expanded his move-set a little more in matches. I mean, if he's gonna be Suplex City... couldn't he at least use a variety of different types of suplexes? Not just Germans? Maybe bring back a few more MMA holds?


But, the reality of Lesnar being in WWE longer with part-time "special attraction" appearances does open the question of who would be the best "money" match opponents for him?

Most obvious choices: Strowman and Lashley.

Strowman could work on the more short-term timeline. And on the off-chance that Lesnar is still Universal Champ after Greatest Royal Rumble then I think it's time to pull the trigger on Strowman as Universal Champ and have him defeat Lesnar at whatever the next PPV Lesnar is contracted to perform at.



Sidebar: I think it's damn stupid how Reigns has been built up and how Lesnar's finisher has been subsequently damaged by their WM match. When two performers are built up to be like 5 times better than ALL others on the roster it just makes everyone else look like chopped liver.

And I know Vince loves the fans to get the history of matches and number of finishers used so that any match-up means 'anything can happen' but the reality is it does hurt the credibility of a show that people already have a hard enough time investing in.



Anyway... Strowman is still believable as a guy to defeat Lesnar in a decisive fashion to become Universal Champion.

Lashley could be too, but he has to have time to grow into that with the WWE audience, because really, he's been gone long enough that even many hardcore fans don't remember all that much about him.


Any others to face Lesnar other than Strowman and Lashley are possible but the storyline has to be REALLY, REALLY strong or it will be hard to invest in.