Kurt, Karen and Jeff — Jerry Springer Would Be Proud

[Zeven_Zion]

Who gives a shit about heels going over faces? All that matters is the context in which the heel goes over the face. That's ALL that matters. Without the context and the reasoning then there's no f'cking point, idiot.

You want to know the context of a heel going over the face? The context is this - Jeff Jarrett cheated in order to prevail over Samoa Joe. Sounds like a straight up context, right? Reasoning? Kayfabe, the reason is again .. the cheating. Double J has shown time and time again that he cannot win without cheating. That's the story this match told. Samoa Joe could squash him, and he was during the match, but it wasn't until Double J cheated when he got the massive upper hand. It's how heels work, it's how they win, and it's how this storyline ended. You have a problem with it, bitch-boy, go talk to the writers. If you hate TNA so much, and clearly you do since you want it to fail, the only conclusion I can draw is that you are what I say you are - a complete and utter moron. Don't like it, don't watch it, don't comment on it. I don't like WWE, I don't watch it, you don't see me bitching my ass off at the WWE forum, right?

Nope. When a feud ends the two go their separsate ways and start feuding with OTHERS, they don't continue their feud and have another match. You must have a problem with common sense.

And you must have a problem with your brain. After WrestleMania, Shawn was assaulted by Daivari and Hassan, he feuded with them, he was teaming up with Hogan, so on and so forth. That sounds like other people to me, even if they were somehow someway related to Angle.

The fact that there's no proof he's a draw of any kind is proof in itself that he's not a draw. The fact that WCW was at its worse when Jarrett was main eventing is proof. The fact that TNA was nowhere with Jarrett main eventing for years until he stopped being in the spotlight is proof. I'm sure I could even find numbers too, if I wanted to go to that length to prove to obvious.

I told you that if you didn't show me any proof, you should shut the fuck up. You're not shutting the fuck up, you're dodging the question. I still want proof that Double J Jeff Jarret has never drawn. I want it black on white, I want your sources. Please provide them. You must be getting your information from somewhere. Or are you pulling it out of your ass like everything else you say?

Oh no, TNA always does it as a whole. ITs certainly not just this ONE example with Jeff Jarrett. Jeff Jarrett did it time and time again while he was hogging the main event scene for years back in the old days of TNA.

Again I say. Learn to read. I know Jarrett used to be a bitch back in the day, making himself seem like the King of the World because it's his company. That's why I said that he's done it just one time to one guy since he was brought back to TNA by Mick Foley I believe. The Double J days were a LONG time ago, he's no longer in the position he's in I believe. I might be wrong.

What exactly did Jay Lethal get out of the Ric Flair feud? Afterwards they pushed him back down into obscurity and he was doing nothing for months, and now is dwindling along in meaningless X Division feuds with Jersey Shore ripoffs and Kazarian. Sting's done very little for the young guys and lots for already established guys. Angle may be an exception, but really, he ran through the wholoe roster with the whole Top ten ranking shit (or whatever it was) and none of those guys came out looking better or stronger for it. He just ran right through them. He put over AJ Styles, but then TNA has taken Styles and thrown him back down to the mid-card and kept him out of the spotlight.

We're not talking overall continuance and success of their careers. Don't twist this. I'm talking PUTTING SOMEONE OVER, which in most cases means allowing them to beat you in the match. It's what Ric Flair did. He put him over. Since that moment TNA hasn't done anything of importance with him. I like Lethal, and I know his limitations. He's bland, he's uninteresting behind the mic, and is in the spot he should be. Low mid-card. Fun in the ring, and that's about it.

True, Angle did run over all of those guys you mentioned. However, it's not like he completely squashed them all. He had pretty good matches with all of them and was very generous in the ring from what I saw. He made Amazing Red look like pure Gold.

However, how could he NOT go over these guys, even if it wasn't a part of that shitty rankings system? Angle is one of TNA's poster boys. Of course he'll go over them. That's what poster boys do. That's what big stars do. Does Cena ever lose to John Morrisson, Miz and so on? No he doesn't. Kurt Angle did not go over anyone who's better than him in the ring (bar AJ Styles), he went over them in style, had great matches and made them look good. Period. Some of them are out of TNA, and others are in the Main EVent picture, which means that losing to Kurt Angle didn't kill their careers.

No need to get mad and start swearing agitatedly just because you're wrong.

I'm not doing it because I'm wrong, I'm doing it because I hate nimrods. A lot.

Jarrett's doesn't get a better reaction then Joe at all. Booing the guy because they don't want to see him isn't the same as booing him because he's "over", which he's not. Jarrett has the same persona he's had forever, and it was never interesting, it certainly isn't now. It's boring and cliche. Jarrett's not better in the ring then Joe, he's not better on the mic then Joe, nor is he then a great deal of the roster that he's being pushed in the place of. So no, you're full of shit.

You are one pathetic human being, you know that? Everyone and their mother knows that Jarrett is drawing legit heat. The fans are not giving him X-Pac Heat. They're not chanting "boring". They're booing him out of the building. If THAT'S X-Pac heat then any heel heat is X-Pac heat.

Jarrett is not better in the ring than Joe. True. But Jarrett being worse on the mic than Joe? My, my, I guess you people will never get your heads out of your asses, will you? Just eat shit and go watch something else ...

 

[JJYanks121]

Wow, this has been a fun little verbal war to watch. You sure you guys don't want to have it out in the ring? We could run a "worked shoot" angle with you guys just like Angle/Jarrett and I think there would actually be more interest in it given how many come to Wrestlezone forums each day hehe.

In all seriousness, you guys have let your anger get the best of you and have gotten way off topic. Let's try and steer it back towards the topic at hand.

1) Kurt Angle and Jeff Jarrett's story: interesting or not? My answer - IT DOESN'T MATTER!! I said it before and I'll say it again. The worked shoot stuff they are doing may "fit" into the story they are doing between Jeff and Kurt, but it's entirely unnecessary in the grand scheme of things. Kurt Angle should be focused on Immortal as a whole PERIOD. He lost more than ANYONE with the creation of Immortal as he lost his fucking career. That's worse than a title shot and it's worse than just a friend betraying you. That's your fucking job that you've been at for 12 years! Having him caught up in other shit is just plain ridiculous.

2) The Samoa Joe/Jarrett feud SHOULD have been MORE interesting and longer than Angle/Jarret - Yep, I said it. Joe TRUSTED Jarrett, who had been a good guy for quite a while at this point. He was the proud founder of the company and the crowd loved him for it. I remember being at a house show in July where he introduced Angle (ironic huh?) and the crowd loved him! And this is New York!

Back on point, Joe trusted Jarrett and sided with him, thinking he was the good guy. Jarrett walked out on Joe, betraying him and leaving him in a position where he didn't know who to trust. This story could have progressed as part of the greater TNA vs. Immortal story and Joe's hatred for Jarrett could have brought back out the animal in him and really gave rise to the new era of Joe. I'm not the biggest Joe guy, far from it, but a long feud with Jarrett over betrayal and pride in a company that gave him a break could have been good stuff.

Instead, we get Joe vs. Jarrett, but unfortunately, Joe's contract is expiring! This puts a damper on the program right away and if Joe doesn't resign, the bigger picture story can't come close to being achieved. Thus, just like WM 19 which was given as an example, the heel wins because he's sticking around! Now, Joe DID resign and was put in the feud with Pope because Jarrett was now busy, but I contend that Angle should NEVER have bothered with Jarrett so Joe should have been able to come back and resume his feud if that didn't happen.

3) If you want to say that Joe was buried, blame Joe. He wasn't sure if he was going to stick around (and I don't blame him given the constant uncertainty surrounding his spot in the company), so his contract expired and he was buried on the way out. This happened to Batista in WWE as well. Knowing the guy wont' be back changes A LOT about how a feud will go. Let's overlook the end result for that reason.

4) Here's the clincher: you want this Immortal story to work and you want it to be about taking the company from Dixie Carter and her taking it back eventually right? Ideally, that's the story, regardless of how stupid they made her seem in the beginning. Essentially, no court is going to back you for signing away your company without reading the fucking contract! The only way she will get the damn thing back is in a storyline. You have her get together a group of wrestlers. If it's going to be THEY part deux, that's fine. I sincerely hope this group includes RVD, Joe, Anderson, and Angle, who ALL were directly hurt by the group. You could definitely bring back Nash and Sting who "knew all along" to lead the group, but have the younger dudes wrestle for it. The nonsense of settling it in the court and needing all the titles as leverage was a stupid idea, but the group to oppose Immortal is a good one, if done right. Again, you would think the guys who were hurt by this group would ban together, even if they don't love each other, for the common cause to rid their company of this infection. Think Nexus and how faces and heels both felt threatened and fought off that group.

Moreso than anyone, Angle should be the leader here. He lost his damn career and should be the renegade leader of the new group. He could definitely use a Crimson on the inside to deliver his message since he and Dixie (the brains behind the takeback) are out of the company (kayfabe) and thus can't deliver it themselves. This is wrestling, so you'd think ideally an Angle would have guys on the inside run sneak attacks on Immortal (guerrilla warfare) until they give Angle a chance to earn his job back/Dixie a chance to win the company back. You could even show Angle making phone calls to different people to rally the troops per se. This would keep Angle on TV, but out of the Impact Zone since he isn't an active wrestler at this time.

What you shouldn't be doing is having an inactive wrestler engage in a "personal" feud that takes him away from what should be his one and only goal. What is having exhibitions with Jarrett going to prove? Will they get him his job back? They will not, so why waste your time. That's why I don't like the story. It's so far off from what Angle SHOULD be doing and it only pleases the select few marks who like this worked shoot stuff.

The final point I'll make is about heels winning. They can...........for a period of time. They can when someone else retires or leaves a company as it gives them something to gloat about, and they can get the temporary victory. In the grand scheme of things though, wrestling is built for the babyfaces to eventually win. Evil should not actually triumph in the end. If you write stories well, the bad guys could dominate for a long time, but eventually, they need to be destroyed. It's the nature of the beast. Immortal will fall eventually, and you hope it's because some faces banned together to destroy it. If they do, those guys get an ENORMOUS rub for doing it. Think about Austin/McMahon. Vince tried EVERYTHING to keep Austin down but Austin eventually won out..........and then got struck down by a car. He did win the McMahon feud though and that's what we are talking about. How about Cena vs. Nexus? They outsmarted him for 6 months, but eventually he won out. Six months is a damn long time in wrestling and it seemed he might never win, but finally, he beat Barrett. Barrett and his group dominated him for months, but he finally went over. I know he didn't "need the rub", but we're just talking about heels vs. faces here and not specifics.

The point is, Jarrett/Joe probably would have gone differently if Joe's contract wasn't ending. As it stands, he DID get buried. You can't deny that. He had to though, because if he left for good, it would do nothing for Jarrett to be on the losing end. Had he stayed around from the beginning, Joe should have gone over eventually and if he didn't, that would be a major problem from a booking standpoint.

The biggest problem is that all of this is just fodder and distraction from the main story. The Angle/Jarrett stuff shouldn't be monopolizing a broadcast as it shouldn't even be happening. You have a much better story in place.........if you do it correctly. The thing some of us struggle with is that doing things like this and using Karen's tits as a distraction (a pretty good one if you ignore her horse face), you forget that guys are being wasted in the grand scheme of things.

I hope you guys patch up your petty differences. There are greater issues to discuss than whether Jarrett has ever been a draw.

 

[brunorules68]

kurt angle isn't okay with the angle i'm sure that he and jeff don't like each other and for you to speculate otherwise is asinine.

you're wrong just becauuse kurt is engaged to someone else doesn't mean that he isn't angry at jarett jarett took his wife it is REAL! ANYONE WHO SAYS OTHERWISE IS A DUMBASS AND MISINFORMED!

 

[Sting's Bat]

Maybe its because im not a reality TV guy, but I found the whole Jarret mini segments on this last impact to be painfully boring and if not for the Fourtune turn at the end of the night this Impact would have went down as my personal worst Impact of the year.

I dont watch wrestling to see Shrilly wives and Screaming kids highlighted and thats all that segment was. The worst part of this storyline is that nobody will really profit from it, Angle doesn't need to beat Jarrett because he is over enough as it is, It would be nice if they had given it to a younger guy because as built up is he is now as a heel it would be a decent rub for someone young to topple Jarrett.

This is unlikely to happen however due to Jarretts track record of rarely letting younger guys get significant wins over him.

 

[BJM0703]

Karen Angle is a ****e. She has kids with Angle and marry Angle, and then she tells Angle she is divorcing him and raising their kids with another man. If any woman did that to me I would take her to court for full custody of my kids. No woman will ever tell me she is divorcing me and raising our kids with another man.

 

[GameOver]

People have a short memory. They've already done this whole Angle and Jarret fighting with Karen in the middle years ago, which ultimately led to Jarret going offscreen.

How is that new? It's not, it's just an extension

as for a personal thing with Angle, it doesn't seem that intense and real as the Hardy, Edge Lita situation, and in there case there wasn't even a marriage and kids involved.

I doubt Angle would go along with it and be so calm if it really pissed him off.

Angle is dying in his career now, and Jarrett hasn't been a respectable "star" in 20yrs.
and who gives a shit about Karen, seriously!!!! Just drop it altogether and move on to some other crap go nowhere storyline

The storyline would work if it involved people that the majority actually give a shit about. and i know for sure 2 of the people inolved noone in there right mind would give a flying <expletive> about.