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Knives in TNA… Signs of a Company Jumping the Shark?

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wwefan0405

Dark Match Jobber
For the past two weeks on TNA Impact, Samoa Joe (one of the best talents in all of pro wrestling) has taken a knife and placed it near Scott Steiner's throat. Such actions are beyond provocative or offensive. TNA's decision to force Joe to commit such an act of public indecency is disgraceful.

In the tradition of pro wrestling, certain things have been off limits. For example, wrestlers don't kick other wrestlers in the face with the toe of their boots (the bottom of the foot is usually used). Even Randy Orton's punt kick is done in a way that the brunt of the force is from the top of Orton's foot. Wrestlers also tend to not kick in the shins. Other moves that are not used are the act of grabbing a wrestler's head and slamming it against the top of one's knee. And of course, professional wrestling (at least in the mainstream) has never adopted the habit of male wrestlers striking female wrestlers. Yes, female wrestlers have taken wrestling maneuvers from men, but not violent punches to the body (and more specifically, the face). And no, Jericho's punch to Michaels' wife is not in the same category. It was staged to appear as though Jericho's punch was an accident. However, if Jericho went ballistic and just started punching Michaels' wife on the ground, that would have been unconscionable on a wrestling program.

As far as weapons go, wrestling has historically never used guns or knives. In the public's conscious, guns and knives bring to mind images of murder, death, and grotesque violence. It is not the same as chairs, ladders, tables, ring bells, and weapons of that variety. Those are common wrestling weapons that would hardly ever be used for a real life assault. And though sledgehammers and baseball bats might be pushing the envelope, professional wrestlers have found ways to use those weapons in safe and inoffensive ways. For example, Triple H never swings the sledgehammer to a wrestler's head and makes contact. He usually lightly grazes a wrestler's head with his hands clearly covering the metal part of the hammer.

The blame for the Impact segment involving Joe falls squarely on TNA's shoulders. Sure, it would be great if Samoa Joe had the courage to stand up to TNA and tell them that he won't use a knife in any angle. Then again, it might also be possible that Samoa Joe supports the idea of using the weapon. But that is not at issue here. TNA (headed by Dixie Carter and Jeff Jarrett) approved of a knife being shown and used in a provocative way on their programming.

Now, let's take this a step forward…

Joe is a fan favorite, revered by many young people. What kind of example is he being to his younger audience? An argument might be made that wrestlers don't need to be role models for children. Heck, a close examination of many wrestlers of the last two decades reminds us that many of our heroes on-screen were quite cruel, villainous, and confused off-screen. However, it is morally upright and honorable for wrestlers to take seriously the images they portray. Joe's use of a knife to threaten a rival might legitimize such a practice in the minds of some impressionable individuals. If Joe is seen as cool to a large segment of the TNA fan population and he uses a knife to settle disputes, the possibility of a fan imitating Joe is real and a cause for great concern.

But it gets worse…

Mike Tenay

During this past week's edition of TNA Impact, Mike Tenay justified Joe's actions to put a knife near Steiner's neck. He said of Samoa Joe's actions, "…and when it comes to dealing with the Main Event Mafia, I have to tell ya, I don't blame Samoa Joe." Those words were the worst I've ever heard uttered by a commentator. With that very comment, Mike Tenay has flushed his credibility as a commentator right down the toilet. During one of the worst wrestling segments ever produced in North American wrestling history, we heard the most inappropriate and mind boggling comment ever heard on a wrestling program. I am not trying to speak in hyperbole for effect. That segment and Tenay's comment were as low as it gets.

I am not even going to get into my newfound disdain for Jeff Jarrett's TNA. It's not like I even enjoyed it that much before anyway. But here's something I'm personally hoping for. I hope Kurt Angle gets out of there the second his contract expires. Kurt Angle is way above the garbage TNA is producing. Hanging around in such a wrestling promotion does nothing but taint Kurt Angle's legacy. Christian exited TNA at just the right time. He could see the go-nowhere, sinking ship before him. Good for Christian. I hope Angle displays similar wisdom, or retires altogether.

I don't want to dislike TNA. I really don't. Competition is a good thing and anything that keeps McMahon on his toes is a positive for fans. The problem is that TNA presents too many obstacles for wrestling fans to enjoy their shows. They give us an annoying six-sided ring. They give us horrible commentators. They produce lame storylines. And when they attempt not to be lame, they become downright offensive. And lately, TNA has jumped the shark to a point where there is seemingly no return.

TNA would show goodwill by publicly apologizing for the use of a knife on its programming. For some reason though, I doubt that'll happen.

Hopefully ROH will emerge as a dignified and successful promotion. That way, they could serve as a viable company for wrestlers to jump to when they tire of TNA's nonsense.
 
I find it funny that people don't have problem with racism, gangs, violence against women, sex and nudity, but bring a knife into the equation, then all of a sudden it's terrible.

Please. It's a TV show. You see knives and guns on TV shows all the time, wrestling should be no different.
 
Do you get offended if a show like Prison Break or Lost uses knives or guns? TNA are a TV show aswell so why should it be any different.
 
I think it's funny when people who obviously HATE TNA continue to watch it. If you don't like TNA then stick to your wwe shows. As far as joe using a knife, I don't like joe and wish he would go away.
 
If I recall correctly, and I'm pretty sure I do, didn't McMahon get ridiculed for allowing Stone Cold to use a gun during the infamous McMahon / Austin feud ?? It was viewed by many pundits, not just wrestling fans, as crossing a line.

That being said, it didn't take long for us to discover that it was just a toy gun, but TNA and Samoa Joe aren't exactly downplaying the legitamacy of the knife.

It does cross a line when murder is implied in such a fashion.

Now before everyone gets up in arms and references the Undertaker, Mankind or Kane, let the part of your brain which distinguishes common sense from wrestling sense kick in and determine if what TNA is doing can actually be portrayed as "acting".

We all know that the wrestling in 2009 reaches a much broader audience than wrestling did in 1995. Back then, kids were just becoming wrestling fans. Now, the majority of a wrestling audience is kids (just look at the reaction Cena or Jeff Hardy generates). Parents believe it's o.k. to let their kids watch Raw or Impact, and then Vince Russo and the minds that be in TNA do something stupid like this !!

There's no place in professional wrestling... and life for that matter... where the imitation of murder is permissable.

If you want to argue the movie aspect or shows like Prison Break or Lost, seriously, grow up ??!! Kids don't necessarily believe Lost or Prison Break is real. Unfortunately, kids CAN, DO and WILL believe wrestling is real.

If you don't believe that, just think back to when you were a kid and ask yourself if you believed that Hulk Hogan was real ??
 
The whole knife gimmick is ridiculous because wrestling isn't about killing people, it's about winning and losing and holding titles, but I think you're making too big of a deal about it.
 
It's impossible for me to agree with you. You listed tables, ladders, chairs, and ring bells. and "weapons of that variety". Does that include staple guns, tacks, fire, beer bottles, and barbed wire? Steve Austin broke into Brian Pillman's house and "shot" him. Vince McMahon blew himself up. As Bischoff wrote, Controvery Creates Cash. This isn't new. You're making a huge deal out of something that kicked off the era of wrestling that fans today regard as the greatest (the Attitude Era). Remember when See No Evil came out, and Kane started throwing around that spike?

Here's what I think. You, for no reason whatsoever, don't like TNA. So any reason you get, no matter how awful it is, is good enough for you to take the liberty and try to bash an entire company. A company that provides in 2 hours more actual matches than both Smackdown and Raw combined. A company that actually cares about the product more than the bottom line. And because Joe, who you wrongfully claimed as a fan favorite, used a knife, TNA isn't about wrestling. When has WWE been about wrestling? The fact of the matter is that "wrestling" these days isn't about wrestling, nor does it even pretend to be. This is why Bruno Sammartino can't stand the sport anymore. TNA has to compete with WWE, and when Austin tried to murder Pillman, that was a ratings boost. Austin became the fan favorite that Samoa Joe can only dream of becoming. But seriously, think before you write something. Just a little.
 
Knives have no place in the business what so ever.

Even mainstream media such as movies, portray knives as malicious beyond guns. You've got kids in the UK stabbing each other, and I don't doubt the US has problems with Knives.

TNA has a responsibility to it's audience, that it has spectacularly failed. WWE steps over the mark sometimes (Jeff Hardy's recent off air moments), but not to this scale.

Not that I'm going to stop watching, i don't pay the TNA upper mid card all that much attention anymore.
 
Pillman used a gun with Austin/ Austin with Vince.. but a knife?.....thats a no no mabey TNA should add a E to there name

This post just makes me cringe for so many reasons but, besides the obvious ones, how can you possibly say that a knife is worse than a gun? I have never heard anyone say that before. A gun was used in the 90's by Pillman in the Austin/Pillman feud. Yes, it was controversial, but controversy can be good, as it gets people talking nonetheless. I don't see the problem with TNA, a company that's still developing, utilizing a knife in a storyine in 2009 it was somewhat acceptable in the 90's. Now, I see what you're saying about Tenay agreeing with Joe's actions, but still, that shouldn't make you disheartened about the real issue at hand here. The knife usage was fine. It's just for TV, let it go.
 
TNA.... Crossed the Line.....

Haha, anyway, I can see why lots of people are upset about this, and I'm pretty sure its not just pure hate for TNA. Implying that Average Joe would slit scott steiners throat with a machete on national T.V is a little over the top. A little messy a well!

There is a reason they use the word K-fabe, because its not a fox drama series, or a multi million dollar movie, and all though thats what it is when comes down in the end, its supposed to be seen as real wrestling with real outcomes, rather than making the movie or tv show analogy, why not the sports analogy.

Your not going to see a pitcher take a knife out of his back pocket and slit the batters throat because he's pissed off, and I understand that wrestling is fake, but its portrayed as real, and the Joe/machete angle is a cheap and tacky attempt to re create the attitude era in TNA.
 
If I recall correctly, and I'm pretty sure I do, didn't McMahon get ridiculed for allowing Stone Cold to use a gun during the infamous McMahon / Austin feud ?? It was viewed by many pundits, not just wrestling fans, as crossing a line.

That being said, it didn't take long for us to discover that it was just a toy gun, but TNA and Samoa Joe aren't exactly downplaying the legitamacy of the knife.

It does cross a line when murder is implied in such a fashion.

Now before everyone gets up in arms and references the Undertaker, Mankind or Kane, let the part of your brain which distinguishes common sense from wrestling sense kick in and determine if what TNA is doing can actually be portrayed as "acting".

We all know that the wrestling in 2009 reaches a much broader audience than wrestling did in 1995. Back then, kids were just becoming wrestling fans. Now, the majority of a wrestling audience is kids (just look at the reaction Cena or Jeff Hardy generates). Parents believe it's o.k. to let their kids watch Raw or Impact, and then Vince Russo and the minds that be in TNA do something stupid like this !!

There's no place in professional wrestling... and life for that matter... where the imitation of murder is permissable.

If you want to argue the movie aspect or shows like Prison Break or Lost, seriously, grow up ??!! Kids don't necessarily believe Lost or Prison Break is real. Unfortunately, kids CAN, DO and WILL believe wrestling is real.

If you don't believe that, just think back to when you were a kid and ask yourself if you believed that Hulk Hogan was real ??

Though i understand what you mean i'm pretty sure jumping the shark is not the correct term to explain what you are trying to convey. jumping the shark is more so when the general consensus of viewers feels a show is past it's prime so i think that both not enough episodes have past since and veiwership is increasing for TNA.

first there is a big difference between a gun and a knife. since you want to tell people to "grow up" i'll assume that you are a capable adult so i won't go into the differences.

i will agree that mike tenay seemingly condoning joe's actions the way he did was one of if not the worse moment in commentary history.

maybe you are a fan of old school wrestling with the super kid friendly characters and things of that nature. you saying this is disgraceful is just a matter of taste. in you list of weapons used in wrestling i think you left out things like barbed wire, thumb tacks, and broken glass. all of those things carry the same dangers as knives do.

as for your paragraph of things that wrestlers don't do because they are "off limits" i'm not sure that is why these things aren't seen. As far as kicking with your toe i played soccer for a few years most coaches i know in any sport that involves kicking (including some martial arts) advise against kicking with your toe because you can injure yourself that way. Also imho wrestlers don't "usually" kick other wrestlers in the shins (even though i could be wrong i thought mick foley used to do it) is because it doesn't appear to the viewer to be very effective. as far as the kneeing in the head i could again be mistaken but isn't what you are describing basically a knee lift? one of HHH's signature moves and two of CM Punk's signature moves (GTS and the one in the corner)

also i'm not sure that wrestling reaches a broader audience these days than in the past. obviously you have the fact that wrestling was doing 8s back then and now the highest for a tv show is about a 4.1 but even still just about every child i knew back then talked about wrestling.

as far as kids thinking it's real or not. first it is parents responsibility to monitor what their kids watch. second i'm pretty sure that kids that will think wrestling is real will indeed think some of these movies and tv shows are real.
 
Big deal, so they had a knife, Triple H brings a sledge hammer into the ring, you'd call THAT less dangerous ? If I'm not mistaken, he tried to brain Orton with it a few times, what's that teaching the kids ?
 
But it gets worse…

Mike Tenay

During this past week's edition of TNA Impact, Mike Tenay justified Joe's actions to put a knife near Steiner's neck. He said of Samoa Joe's actions, "…and when it comes to dealing with the Main Event Mafia, I have to tell ya, I don't blame Samoa Joe." Those words were the worst I've ever heard uttered by a commentator. With that very comment, Mike Tenay has flushed his credibility as a commentator right down the toilet.

I just want to point out that Mike Tenay never had any credibility as an announcer. This angle hasn't really had anything to do with it...
 
TNA.... Crossed the Line.....

Haha, anyway, I can see why lots of people are upset about this, and I'm pretty sure its not just pure hate for TNA. Implying that Average Joe would slit scott steiners throat with a machete on national T.V is a little over the top. A little messy a well!

There is a reason they use the word K-fabe, because its not a fox drama series, or a multi million dollar movie, and all though thats what it is when comes down in the end, its supposed to be seen as real wrestling with real outcomes, rather than making the movie or tv show analogy, why not the sports analogy.

Your not going to see a pitcher take a knife out of his back pocket and slit the batters throat because he's pissed off, and I understand that wrestling is fake, but its portrayed as real, and the Joe/machete angle is a cheap and tacky attempt to re create the attitude era in TNA.

i get your point and agree to an extent it is extremely edgy and reminds you of the attitude era but seeing as though vinny roo is a booker in
tna that isn't a surprise. also any child that would think this is real and would imitate it isn't looking at tv shows and movies and saying "o this cost millions of dollars to put together so it must be fake." also your sports analogy is just stupid. no one would expect to see that in baseball because it has nothing to do with the point of baseball. though i agree that TNA is definitely walking a fine line it is sheer stupidity to compare using a weapon in a ball based sport to using a weapon in a combat based sport in which weapons are used frequently.
 
This fucking stupid, they're obviously trying to copy the infamous Pillman/Austin gun incedent, only with a knife instead, who cares if Joe is running around with a knife, he's putting it to Steiners throat, and Steiner sucks donkey dick, I would love for Joe just to do us all a fucking favor and slit Steiners worthless throat already, but in all seriousness, who really cares anymore, we'e seen wrestlers pull guns on each other 3 times in WWE alone (ironically all 3 times involved Austin, 1-Austin/Pillman, 2- Austin pulled a fake gun on Vince, who ended up pissing himself, and 3- when Austin was feuding with the nWo he pulled a gun on Nash, it olny shot a stupid fucking net), we've seen wrestlers run eachother over, throw people off titan trons, hit people with sledghammers bricks, and flaiming barbwire bats, among many other things I don't have time to mention, after all that a knife seems pretty lame really
 
Ok i dont think them using a knife is offensive or anything, ya its a bladed weapon, no one gives a fuck. But i still think is riciculous and lame. Samoa Joe is trying to be this badass so he shows up with a face tatoo and a dagger and i laugh, hes sitting there knife to steiners throat spitting all over the place and it looks stupid. The choppy choppy pee pee thign was supposed to be funny so it worked. This time with Samoa Joe it didnt work.
 
i get your point and agree to an extent it is extremely edgy and reminds you of the attitude era but seeing as though vinny roo is a booker in
tna that isn't a surprise. also any child that would think this is real and would imitate it isn't looking at tv shows and movies and saying "o this cost millions of dollars to put together so it must be fake." also your sports analogy is just stupid. no one would expect to see that in baseball because it has nothing to do with the point of baseball. though i agree that TNA is definitely walking a fine line it is sheer stupidity to compare using a weapon in a ball based sport to using a weapon in a combat based sport in which weapons are used frequently.

Yeah, the sports analogy is on the weak side, but its tough to compare wrestling to anything, from a pro sport to a t.v sitcom, pro wrestling is really its own seperate entity

Personally I don't care about the knife angle, but what it comes down to, and what i was trying to express in the sports analogy is that, killing your competition really is not an acceptable way to deal with a problem in what is supposed to be a "real" situation.

With all the weapons that are used in wrestling, even the sledge hammer and the baseball bat, do you ever get the impression that somebody is going to get decapitated and left severed in two pieces in the middle of the ring.

The Serrated machete, maybe it should be left out of wrestling, or atleast untill the point of the wrestling match is to kill your opponent and put his head on one of the spiked poles in the six sided ring... Its only a matter of time before russo busts that one out.
 
Yeah, the sports analogy is on the weak side, but its tough to compare wrestling to anything, from a pro sport to a t.v sitcom, pro wrestling is really its own seperate entity

Personally I don't care about the knife angle, but what it comes down to, and what i was trying to express in the sports analogy is that, killing your competition really is not an acceptable way to deal with a problem in what is supposed to be a "real" situation.

With all the weapons that are used in wrestling, even the sledge hammer and the baseball bat, do you ever get the impression that somebody is going to get decapitated and left severed in two pieces in the middle of the ring.

The Serrated machete, maybe it should be left out of wrestling, or atleast untill the point of the wrestling match is to kill your opponent and put his head on one of the spiked poles in the six sided ring... Its only a matter of time before russo busts that one out.

lol i don't think any of us would be surprised if vinny roo did come up with a head on a pole match.

i don't really agree about the knife being left out tho. i don't feel as tho there is an implication of murder. the segments allow the possibility of murder sure but come on it's scott steiner. the first segment when joe did it he put the knife to scotts neck and said what he said and everything but two or three segments later scott is in the ring with MEM? he doesn't look nervous. he isn't watching his back. he doesn't look as if his life was just threatened. i beg that noone that sees these events happen think they are real as it makes no sense at all.
 
I really don't think that it is the big deal you make out. People have already mentioned the Austin/Pillman gun segment and also the "bang 3:16 Austin/Vince gun segment and I think that the reason WWF didn't get blasted as much as they could have been is because they were targetting a more adult audience. TNA is clearly doing the same at the moment. Take the last 2 iMPACT's for a small example. The word "Prick was thrown out there by West and was not censored and then immediately after the commercial break a replay was shown of him saying prick again. Also the Bubba said "Mother-Fucking" and although the "Fucking part was censored his mouth was not blurred and it was not censored to the point where you wouldn't have know what he said if he didn't say mother beforehand. Anyway my point is I believe using a knife on TNA although it is pushing the envelope, is acceptable considering the companies target audience.
 
just a quick note: Tank Abbot did the same thing on a Nitro.... nobody knew he was going to do it, so the camera pulled back and schiavone had to become the master of improvisation and say, tank was just trying to cut the guy's hair. It's on youtube somewhere. I think Kevin Sullivan threw a fit backstage because it was suppose to be a prop.
 
a knife? so what...how many tv shows have ppl dying, or getting shot, display sex and nudity? how many times has wwe shown ppl getting runned over, limos exploding, guns being drawn, (i.e. brian pillman pointing a gun, austin putting a gun to vince's face) hot lesbian action, sex etc. etc.? several times...putting a knife to steiner's throat is no different than what wwe's done or what other tv shows are doing as of right now. you got ppl on youtube complaining over something as stupid as this. LOL at a knife being worse than a gun. WHAT IS THE WORLD COMING TO?
 
While I agree with most of what you are saying. I disagree on two things that you said. TNA has just as little wrestling as WWE. I recently watched an episode where in the first hour and fifteen minutes there was one match. Also while Joe is no where near the fan favorite Austin was, he still is considered a fan favorite. I just wish people here would take the time to get facts straight before writing.
 
It's a sad, sad attempt at again copying the WWE. Except this time, TNA is using a fat, out of shape fucker in Sloppy Joe to try and be a bad ass. It tries to conjure up feelings of Bang 3:16, or even Pillman's gotta gun, but sadly, it fails.

It makes Joe look weak, and it makes him look like an insufferable prick. Instead of beinga ble to kick someones ass in teh ring, he resorts to sneak attacks and threatening to take someones life with a knife to the throat. It makes people uneasy, and in the end, benefits no one.

It's a terrible angle, and one of the worst thigns I've seen in years.
 
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