Kalisto's Potential

[OYDK]

Ever since his debut Kalisto has been compared, in one way or another, to another small, masked luchadore that highly overachieved in his career- Rey Mysterio. Whether or not you think Mysterio deserved his championships or his main event spot in WWE, it's hard to argue the fact that he is indeed a legend in this sport. Who would ever have thought that somebody who stands at 5'4 and wears a mask, would one day go on to fight for World titles at Wrestlemania? Who would have thought that same man would become one of the most popular figures of the era? Not many, but it happened. And you'd think that something like this would show WWE that wrestlers of all shapes and sizes have the potential to become household names.

However, rumors (and I stress the word for a reason, people) have recently popped up suggesting that despite the Lucha Dragons, and specifically Kalisto's, fast-rising popularity, the WWE has no real plans for Kalisto in the future. One quote states, "not only do they not plan on pushing him, but there are apparently no plans to do anything significant with him at all." It has been mentioned that this is primarily due to his size, as they feel somebody like ADR had a much better chance of appealing to the Hispanic market because of his stature.

Now while I don't think Kalisto necessarily deserves a main event push or anything right away, I've always felt that he had the potential to be a much bigger version of Rey Mysterio if just given the chance. He seems to be pretty fluid on the mic despite rarely having it in his hands, his Lucha wrestling ability is unmatched by anybody on the roster, and similar to Rey, he has a great, unique look with the mask that sets him apart from the rest of the roster. I legitimately thought that his Salida del Sol off the top of the ladder would have been his breakthrough moment, where he or his team finally started getting more exposure. But it hasn't really happened yet, and judging from the reports, it's not likely to happen soon. Honestly, I have no problem believing a story like this as WWE has been synonymous with doubting their wrestlers based on size DESPITE seeing what guys like Jericho, Benoit, Michaels, Mysterio, etc. have done for them over the years. It's like a brain that can't learn no matter how many undoubtable facts and figures have been pumped into it. It's ridiculous to be honest.

So a two-pronged question:

1. What potential do you see in Kalisto?

2. How archaic is it for WWE to still judge on size after all these years?

 

[KromyD]

He probably will have a title run, maybe 1 or 2 but nothing more. An underdog storyline where his 'moments' in matches speak for him. After his last ladder moment, could see WWE running with him winning a MITB ladder match after another stunt than successfully cashing in.

 

[J.J.]

I see Kalisto staying in the tag division and having no more than a mid card run. Rey was popular by time he got to WWE because WCW had many luchador wrestlers he could matchup with, where as WWE has none on main roster(Los Matadors?). His style in WWE has a ceiling. I only felt Rey got his title run for obvious reasons - right place at right time, Eddie Guerrero death.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

I think Kalisto has potential to be a good upper midcard face for a while. I don't think they will ever find the next Rey Mysterio. Rey had the fortune of being the guy who benefited, if you want to call it fortune, the most from Eddie's untimely death. I'm not sure if Rey would have ever gotten to the level he did without the WWE playing the sympathy card with him and pushing him to the top. I digress though, this is about Kalisto and not Rey.

Like I said, he has the potential to be a good upper midcard face, much in the same vein of what Kofi has been the last few years. He will always be moderately over thanks to his in ring work and fan friendly persona. He will likely never hold the big title, but I could see him with a couple of IC or US title runs. He will be good to put in multi-man matches for big spots as well.

As for your other point, I hate that WWE still judges people based on size. It used to work. Much like boxing, the heavyweights are always going to be the big draw, but boxing recently has seen a big shift away from heavyweight stars to smaller weight classes. Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquio are the most famous boxers in the world right now, and both guys only run about a hundred and forty pounds each. Pro wrestling is all about larger than life personas, and it is easy to achieve that when you are a big muscular guy. It is also achievable through actions though. Smaller guys like Kalisto and Neville do things that look next to impossible in the ring, and it gets fans excited. That Salida del Sol was a larger than life moment, and I still think it has potential to push Kalisto to a higher level.

Ultimately I think Kalisto will be fine. He is in an okay spot right now. He has the misfortune of being stuck behind The Usos in the face tag team pecking order, but he is still moderately over and putting on solid matches, even managing to pick up some wins here and there. I just want to see what he is capable of on his own. He was a fairly big star before WWE for a reason and after a shaky start he is getting his WWE legs under him.

 

[J.J.]

Pro wrestling is all about larger than life personas, and it is easy to achieve that when you are a big muscular guy. It is also achievable through actions though. Smaller guys like Kalisto and Neville do things that look next to impossible in the ring, and it gets fans excited. That Salida del Sol was a larger than life moment, and I still think it has potential to push Kalisto to a higher level.

Ultimately I think Kalisto will be fine. He is in an okay spot right now. He has the misfortune of being stuck behind The Usos in the face tag team pecking order, but he is still moderately over and putting on solid matches, even managing to pick up some wins here and there. I just want to see what he is capable of on his own. He was a fairly big star before WWE for a reason and after a shaky start he is getting his WWE legs under him.

What is defined as a larger than life wrestlers? WWE has always had that belief but the territories have had countless workers that weren't 'larger than life' that went on to be champions. Hell a lot of them didn't have the chiseled physiques. I never looked at Harley Race as a larger than life worker. He was a skilled worker just like Kalisto is now.

Harley Race, Carlos Colon and Ricky Steamboat I never viewed as WWE's perception of a superstar. Yet they were extremely successful in the territories. Unfortunately they never achieved success in WWE as they did in territories because it of that whole perception.

Kalisto needs people around him that can help showcase his matches more. I wish WWE would hire some more luchador wrestlers instead of emphasizing so much on ADR as the big draw for Hispanics. I got bored of Rey because he was much more entertaining to see him go against someone that could match his speed and style than to see him against someone like Kane. Rey was over by time he got to WWE because he had people that could match him.

 

[Navi]

I like Kalisto and I like Mysterio, but size in the WWE does matter. If we still had a Cruiserweight division then Kalisto would be holding the title no problem, but he just isn't believable against the bigger guys, like Mysterio wasn't.

In saying that though, I don't understand the WWE's fascination with Alberto Del Rio. If you've ever been to Mexico you know that Del Rio with the elitist gimmick, would only represent a small portion of the population. Most are poor and while they might aspire to have what he does, they will never have it. So you would think the WWE would push Kalisto over Del Rio, as most Latino's would identify more with him.

And quite honestly in my opinion Del Rio is boring. Once he lost his announcer and the flashy cars, he became just another guy on the roster with nothing to set him apart from anyone else.

But some would say Vince McMahon knows what he's doing so let him do it. Kalisto will most likely always have a spot on the roster but if he ever does hold the title, it will only be once and probably for not very long. There are much better people in front of him.

 

[OYDK]

I like Kalisto and I like Mysterio, but size in the WWE does matter. If we still had a Cruiserweight division then Kalisto would be holding the title no problem, but he just isn't believable against the bigger guys, like Mysterio wasn't.

I think it's more size matters in wrestling to some people. I mean, didn't the original Sin Cara kick the crap out of Sheamus? Didn't Jericho take down Goldberg (in real life)? The size and looks of somebody should not determine how "tough" they are or how high they can go in my opinion. A lot of people wouldn't have a problem seeing Brock Lesnar vs Daniel Bryan while others think, like you I'm assuming, that it's just not a believable enough match-up. I just think that argument greatly limits WWE and the fans. If your statement were a true fact, we never would have seen Daniel Bryan as WWEWHC, only Cruiserweight, and wouldn't that suck?

There are much better people in front of him.

This would be a fact if the WWE title picture worked as a ladder ranking system, with 1 through 10 being listed and each guy getting a title match in order. But we've seen it tons of times before. Somebody can pop up out of nowhere and win the Rumble or MITB. Swagger, Del Rio, Mysterio, Benoit, and tons more have all done it. It's not impossible that years down the line, Kalisto is in a better position than guys like Ambrose, Wyatt, Balor, and others. Is that likely? Probably not, but you can't just assume what's going to happen in the next 4-7 years.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

However, rumors (and I stress the word for a reason, people) have recently popped up suggesting that despite the Lucha Dragons, and specifically Kalisto's, fast-rising popularity, the WWE has no real plans for Kalisto in the future. One quote states, "not only do they not plan on pushing him, but there are apparently no plans to do anything significant with him at all." It has been mentioned that this is primarily due to his size, as they feel somebody like ADR had a much better chance of appealing to the Hispanic market because of his stature.

I'm guessing that this is no more than a planted rumor in order to get the smarks more invested. WWE probably doesn't want to jump the gun on Kallisto but there is no denying his potential. My expectation is that they push Del Rio for as long as they can and then use him to get Kallisto over in the singles world. From there who knows? He most likely gets the Rey treatment with a couple of short title reigns in November, maybe even the WWE WHC.

The guy is still young and there is no reason to rush him in to anything. Seeing him do his thing in singles competition feels pretty special at this point. I was pretty shocked just to have seen him in the WWE WHC tournament.

 

[J.J.]

I think it's more size matters in wrestling to some people. I mean, didn't the original Sin Cara kick the crap out of Sheamus? Didn't Jericho take down Goldberg (in real life)? The size and looks of somebody should not determine how "tough" they are or how high they can go in my opinion. A lot of people wouldn't have a problem seeing Brock Lesnar vs Daniel Bryan while others think, like you I'm assuming, that it's just not a believable enough match-up. I just think that argument greatly limits WWE and the fans. If your statement were a true fact, we never would have seen Daniel Bryan as WWEWHC, only Cruiserweight, and wouldn't that suck.

That's not a fair assessment. Chris Irvine and Chris Jericho the worker and chatacter are two differences. If you're going to base this off whose toughest in real life then guys like Kurt Angle, Brock Lesnar, Ken Shamrock and Dan Severn to name a few would be at the top in this profession. Amateur wrestlers like Jack Swagger and Cody Rhodes wouldn't lose to an average mat worker.

I find it better when guys are matched up with people that can match them. Kalisto vs Brock Lesnar for example would be boring in comparison to a Kalisto vs Sin Cara where their styles mesh well together in the ring. Would I believe in a shoot fight Daniel Bryan could beat Lesnar? Hell no.

Regardless if WWE is a fantasy world of it's own I don't want nor ever see Kalisto headlining a WM or winning the company's richest prize. Regardless, there is a fine line between kayfabe and real life in terms of matchups.

Regardless of him being an underdog and winning the belt, I was never for a Rey mysterious title run because Rey against the likes of a Kane or Big Show is not entertaining to me at all. It's not that theyre terrible workers it's that their styles are totally different.

 

[BuriedByCena]

He even sounds like Rey. I don't know why WWE hates making money so much.

 

[OYDK]

That's not a fair assessment. Chris Irvine and Chris Jericho the worker and chatacter are two differences. If you're going to base this off whose toughest in real life then guys like Kurt Angle, Brock Lesnar, Ken Shamrock and Dan Severn to name a few would be at the top in this profession. Amateur wrestlers like Jack Swagger and Cody Rhodes wouldn't lose to an average mat worker.

How am I not making a fair assessment? I'm arguing that the real life abilities, size, "toughness", of a wrestler shouldn't matter. Aren't you saying the exact same thing? The point that I responded to said that it's not believable for smaller guys to beat bigger guys in wrestling. How is not believable when there are tons of instances of muscle-freaks getting their asses kicked by smaller guys in real life? Hence the Goldberg-Jericho comparison. If a guy like Jericho can beat a guy like Goldberg in reality, who are we to say that it's not believable enough for that to happen in fake wrestling? Yes, yes I know the styles, but this argument has tons of flaws in it man. Primarily the fact that everybody in the main event would be a strongman, while the high fliers and Lucha wrestlers make up the mid-card. THAT would be boring.

I find it better when guys are matched up with people that can match them. Kalisto vs Brock Lesnar for example would be boring in comparison to a Kalisto vs Sin Cara where their styles mesh well together in the ring. Would I believe in a shoot fight Daniel Bryan could beat Lesnar? Hell no.

All depends on how those wrestlers make that match work. I personally find, Lucha vs Lucha, strongman vs strongman, etc. style matches to be kind of repetitive. Mysterio was so good BECAUSE he could have a good match against anybody, no matter the size. Were his matches with Show and Kane as good as his matches with Guerrero or Jericho? Of course not. Does that mean he should never get a chance to face those guys? Of course not.

Regardless if WWE is a fantasy world of it's own I don't want nor ever see Kalisto headlining a WM or winning the company's richest prize. Regardless, there is a fine line between kayfabe and real life in terms of matchups.

Rey Mysterio vs The Great Khali would disagree with you.

Again, like I said, some people care about size and some don't. Just because you take this line, does not make it a fact. Consequently, I understand that my taking a side does not make my point fact either. The difference is I can enjoy all the matches put in front of me because I don't have to worry about size difference or whatnot bugging me. Can you?

By the way, I'm finding the discussion on this to be pretty stimulating. Keep it coming boys (and gals).

 

[J.J.]

Mysterio's better 5 star quality matches were against Juventud Guerrera and Psicosis. Similar styles, look at his feud against Psicosis in ECW or WCW. He didn't have to limit himself. WWE's version of Rey as a worker was slightly watered down in comparison to what he was doing in WCW and ECW. You could contribute that to his injuries. Had he got to go against Sin Cara I strongly believe it could've been the best work of his WWE career.

I look back to when Konnan came in as Max Moon years back. Granted he was getting over in Mexico they had to bring in people that could work with him that was familar to his style.

 

[stingray11214]

The key for Kalisto's success lies not with Vince McMahon and Kevin Dunn, but with Robert Rodriguez and Mark Burnett. If Lucha Underground can get a significant deal with someone like Spike AND get a rise in popularity, VKM will either push Kalisto right to the Main Event at WM, or, at the very least, create a significant Cruiserweight division that has a lot of creative firepower to try to bury LU. They can do this by transferring the US Title to NXT, so Creative has one less nuisance.

However, as it stands now? Dunn and VKM worship body size and a "look" too much to give Kalisto anything more than a tag push, or wallow in the midcard. Kalisto is too small to be of any significance the way WWE is currently constituted.

EDIT: LU is now on UniMas, Univision's sister network.

 

[J.J.]

The key for Kalisto's success lies not with Vince McMahon and Kevin Dunn, but with Robert Rodriguez and Mark Burnett. If Lucha Underground can get a significant deal with someone like Spike AND get a rise in popularity, VKM will either push Kalisto right to the Main Event at WM, or, at the very least, create a significant Cruiserweight division that has a lot of creative firepower to try to bury LU. They can do this by transferring the US Title to NXT, so Creative has one less nuisance.

However, as it stands now? Dunn and VKM worship body size and a "look" too much to give Kalisto anything more than a tag push, or wallow in the midcard. Kalisto is too small to be of any significance the way WWE is currently constituted.

EDIT: LU is now on UniMas, Univision's sister network.

This is a valid point here. This is the only way I could see Kalisto getting a good push. As it stands I am a firm believer that not every gifted worker is destined for the main event. I can see him getting the Kofi treatment as a singles worker at best. Even then that is being modest, honestly.

WWE needs solid mid card performers. At the end of the day he's getting consistent time on TV. Definitely don't think his talents are going unnoticed - especially after his performance at TLC.

 

[The Samoan Heritage]

He probably will have a title run, maybe 1 or 2 but nothing more. An underdog storyline where his 'moments' in matches speak for him. After his last ladder moment, could see WWE running with him winning a MITB ladder match after another stunt than successfully cashing in.

Kalisto winning the WWEWorld championship by cashing in MITB would be the best/(probably the only) way for him to win it. I just don't see him actually winning it in a regular championship build.

IMO Kalisto will never be as good as Mysterio was. Rey was charismatic. Rey was unique(in wwe). And Rey had the chance to work with just about every legend out there.
Someone mention somewhere that Kalisto is the same age as Rey was when he debuted in wwe. But the thing is by the time Rey debuted in wwe he had had matches/feuds with Benoit, Guerrero, Jericho, Nash&Hall, Flair, etc due to working in ECW AND WCW. He also had gained a huge fan base in Mexico.

The one thing I think Kalisto has over Rey is that there aren't as many big guys in wwe now as there were during Rey's time. If Rey can beat or come close to beating guys like Show, Nash, Kane, Bigelow, etc. Kalisto can beat guys like Sheamus and Rollins without much doubt.
With that said though, Kalisto has other people his size that has more potential than he does like Balor and Neville. I can see him gaining popularity similar to Mysterio's but I don't see him getting a push before those two get one.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

Getting a push depends on the whims of WWE. He could be a mid level sensation. But so could a lot of people.

Personally I'd put the tag titles on him and Cara and build them up throughout the year. Eventually they split and feud and then you can gauge where he needs to go next.

 

[Azane]

I don't see him breaking the mid card, EVER.

He has talent, but size + the style he wrestles is only there for that mid card spot, tag team or singles.

I don't think we need more workers who spend 20 minutes getting destroyed, then land a lucky finisher and win, A lot of Rey's later matches boiled down to that until RANDOMLY his opponent trips over the 2nd rope and gets 619'd, similarly, "SUPER MAN PUNCH, SPEAR" etc... We've got plenty of underdog gimmicks, and they're getting so stale.

I said something similar about Rey, Rey wouldn't of ever broken the midcard level either if it hadnt been for Eddie's passing and a feel good moment that WWE was trying to push at the time.

Sorry, but WWE wrestling is closer to a body building contest than it is to Luchadore wrestling.

 

[YatesA]

I like him and think him and Neville should be showcased and be aloud to produce some of the best matches the WWE has seen in years?

 

[Jack-Hammer]

1. What potential do you see in Kalisto?

Well, it's hard to say that he could be a main eventer because there's not a whole helluva lot to go on in regards to his personality. He does the "Lucha, Lucha" chant and all that though, to be fair, it's not really any less than I saw out of Rey Mysterio. I have no problem seeing Kalisto as a tag team champion, I could see him as possibly a mid-card champion somewhere down the line. As far as a main eventer goes, it's too early to say though I think no unless there's a major creative shake up.

2. How archaic is it for WWE to still judge on size after all these years?

The thing about the WWE main roster is that the final decisions made on who to push, who not to push and the creative decisions on everything under the sun are made by Vince McMahon. In some ways, I do believe that Vince is out of touch with modern fans and his reluctance to recognize the true main event value in smaller guys is a reflection on that. Fans are no longer as dazzled or awe inspired by Herculean physiques or massive displays of strength to anywhere near the same degree as 25 to 30 years ago. One of the chief reasons, though not the only one of course, for the shift in fan perception is that probably a good 7 or 8 out of every 10 of the best guys in wrestling to debut in the last 15 years have been in the 5'8" to 6'0", 185 to 225 pound height and weight ranges.

Vince McMahon and some top officials, such as Kevin Dunn as an example, are hung up more on the look and/or physical stature of a wrestler than is necessary in modern times. Now that isn't to say that just because you're a big guy doesn't mean you don't have talent or don't deserve to be pushed, it's complete bullshit and there are some fans who do seem almost prejudiced against those sorts of guys. However, they have to have more than an impressive physique, large physical stature, movie star good looks and/or legitimately immense physical strength to get over with fans these days. If a guy has the charisma to make that connection with fans, then that's what ultimately matters the most; without that, it just ain't gonna happen.

In Kalisto's case, bringing back the Cruiserweight Division isn't the answer, nor is it the answer for any other smaller guys for that matter. The change that has to be made involves a more up to date, progressive perspective when it comes to making creative decisions. Bringing back the Cruiserweight Division with Vince still making the final calls will almost certainly result in wrestlers being limited because of their weight; it happened in WCW and it'd happen in WWE. I'm not saying that Triple H is the end all-be all of bookers or anything like that but if NXT is a genuine reflection of WWE under his command, then he obviously is concerned a great deal less about a wrestler's physical size/look than what he/she brings besides or instead of size.

 

[KromyD]

He even sounds like Rey. I don't know why WWE hates making money so much.

WWE changing networks probably proves they want money but i get where your getting at with that tho. WWE probably dont like investing so much into 1 star (Bret Hart, Razor, Lesnar (to some extent), Punk etc).

If anything Vince probably has a "give to the company rule" where to him thats more than a "handshake"deal and thats probably long term service before a big push is probably given.

 

[Heartbreak_Kid_707]

Never ever was a fan of Mysterio. He was very overrated. And I love Kalisto, but unless they bring back the light way title he shouldn't own a single title. Which is ironic cause I love Neville. The lucha style is awesome but not a serious world title contender.

 

[ShinChan]

Never ever was a fan of Mysterio. He was very overrated. And I love Kalisto, but unless they bring back the light way title he shouldn't own a single title. Which is ironic cause I love Neville. The lucha style is awesome but not a serious world title contender.

So you love Kalisto but he shouldnot own a single title
but you love Neville and he should own a single title
Quite contradictory buddy.....

Back on the OP.. I see a lot of potential in Kalisto! I am gonna say an unpopular opinion that i think Kalisto is better than Rey Mysterio! I maybe wrong but i just feel it... For me He should be atleast an upper midcarder.... Might be in the World Title but for a short time.... Although i would surely want him to be World Champion and he is talented enough to become it, Yet i dont trust Vince & Co giving him a main event push anytime..... Maybe Triple H but Vince = No Chance!