John Cena = Bret Hart | WrestleZone Forums

John Cena = Bret Hart

beefthelegend

The Beefiest Legend in all the Land
Okay, first off, this is not an April Fool's joke, and has nothing to do with the fact that today is April 1st, save for the fact that that is when I am posting.

Second, I'm sure i have people foaming at the mouth due to the title. Hear me out.

I am not comparing John Cena in terms of overness, legend status, match quality, technical ability, etc, etc to Bret Hart. I am speaking of them being in similar positions.

After watching Monday's Raw ( I dunno why i put it off so long- it was great) I got goosebumps during Cena's promo. I'm not a Cena guy, quite the antithesis. I am huge Rock fan. But Cena's promo rang true, and i could tell how emotionally charged he was, because was being attacked personally. He attacked the Rock professionally (ish- calling him out for flat leaving the Millions...and millions). But the Rock chose to personally attack him.

At first, Cena made it sound like he was likening it to a Race issue. He danced the line, and made some valid points. But I am not here to rave about Cena's mic skills, or this particular promo. He said a line: "You damn right I do it for the kids" (Paraphrasing-apologies). And immediatly this popped into my head: Bret Hart's feud with Steve Austin.

The quintessential feud that illustrates the passing of the torch from the new Gen to the attitude era, where the bad guy became the hero (or anti-hero) and the man with "good moral values" was always booed, because he was a stick in the mud-no fun. Bret's pops disappeared like a Honeysuckle Ham at an Overeaters Annonymus meeting. At least in America.

And my point is coming, stick with me.

Bret still got pops all over the world, especially anywhere north of the American border. That's not to say that Austin wasn't over as well (except in Canada), but Bret still received the hero's welcome.

And here's the corrolation with John Cena: He is in it for the kids. That is is audience. Much like Bret knew his audience was international venues, and he played up the anti-american sentiment hardcore (and was literally hated here for it-almost to the point of physical violence, if memory serves). And after seeing Cena's actions Monday, and the crowd response, I saw the same thing. Cena still played it up for the kids and women...but he clearly didn't give a shit about any male over the age of 12, his little smirk told me that.

I'll go a step further. Refer back to me referring to the Hart/Austin feud as the "The quintessential feud that illustrates the passing of the torch from the new Gen to the attitude era". Could this be the same type of feud for the Attitude/PG (or whatever era we're in now)?

This isn't a thread about Cena/Rock. You can find numerous other threads about that. This is about Cena's current angle, and the corraltion between that and the Bret Hart "Anti-American" angle and how this feud is similar to Hart/Austin. Please be focused on that, and not the feud with the Rock.
 
Hmmmmm, very interesting perspective you have there. I have never thought of it like that, but now you say it, it makes sense. I really hope it works at "passing the torch" because these are two huge superstars with massive personalities so will be very interesting to see how it all works out.
 
I see the similarities you are suggesting but I don't think it will or is taking the path they took with bret/austin. Sure cena, like Bret now has his own specific fan base and they're making it clear that he is only going to please and represent them but that's where the similarites end. You have to think where his character is going and if hes truly just going to be a kiddie pleaser (ha) then there will be no heel turn, no massive fued with an austin like character simply because to stay over with the kids he has to be the absolute good guy. Sure the kids might eventually grow up and get bored of it but the rock won't be around to bounce off so which mega face to you push against him? It's fine pointing out a few similarities between Anti-America Bret and Cena but it can't go down the same path because the crowd will always be mixes with kids and adults, whether he's in America, Canada or Luxemburg.
 
The only similarity that I can find between the feuds is that both have managed to divide the crowd. Apart from that the two feuds are different as chalk and cheese.

Firstly you have the situation at hand. Bret was the established and popular superstar whose popularity was waning a bit due to wrestling getting a bit extreme. Austin was the up and comer whom the crowd was loving every second of and just needed a push to become a big player. In such circumstances Bret was deliberately heeling things up. His character was becoming more and more heelish by the day as that was the only way to push Austin at that point. I do not think that Hart ever got booed until he turned heel and did the Anti American stuff. Austin got pops as a heel but it was not that Hart got booed as a face.

That is not the case here. Niether Cena nor Rock is going to play a heel here. They both have a set fanbase and that is what each guy is going to pander to. Cena is not going to insult older fans and not is The Rock going to insult younger fans. They are giving the fans a choice to do what they want. It's a battle of identity and what each guy stands for. Austin vs Bret started out in the same vein but it became something totally different once Bret started doing the Anti American thing.

Also, in the case of Cena vs Rock, Cena is at the peak of his popularity while Rock is also very popular. Austin vs Bret was a clear case of one guy's popularity rising and the other guy's popularity waning.
 
Yes, you were right. I was foaming at the mouth but I am glad that I read it through. However, it was very easy to have Bret Hart play to the Canadian fan base and then play the heel to the USA fan base.

The problem with the comparsion for me is this, how can you draw the line on how Cena does this? How can you keep him as a tweener by keeping his women and kid fanbase while trying to piss off the rest of us?

Honestly, most of the reason men over the age of 12 don't cheer Cena is because we are just sick of his character. If you find anyone on here that says they don't like Cena because of his work ethic or because he is a bad person, they will indeed be full of shit.

I love how much he loves WWE, I love how hard he works. I respect him as a wrestler for what he does for the fans BUT I can NOT stand Super Cena. Theres just something about the character I don't like and I never could tell anyone why. I just don't like him and im sure there are many on this board that feel the sameway.

So how could they play on this? You can't have him attack people from behind. Or cheat to win matches because in essence it will turn him full heel.

So to the thread starter, do you have any ideas how to keep that type of tweener character alive?
 
The only similarity that I can find between the feuds is that both have managed to divide the crowd. Apart from that the two feuds are different as chalk and cheese.

Firstly you have the situation at hand. Bret was the established and popular superstar whose popularity was waning a bit due to wrestling getting a bit extreme. Austin was the up and comer whom the crowd was loving every second of and just needed a push to become a big player. In such circumstances Bret was deliberately heeling things up. His character was becoming more and more heelish by the day as that was the only way to push Austin at that point. I do not think that Hart ever got booed until he turned heel and did the Anti American stuff. Austin got pops as a heel but it was not that Hart got booed as a face.

That is not the case here. Niether Cena nor Rock is going to play a heel here. They both have a set fanbase and that is what each guy is going to pander to. Cena is not going to insult older fans and not is The Rock going to insult younger fans. They are giving the fans a choice to do what they want. It's a battle of identity and what each guy stands for. Austin vs Bret started out in the same vein but it became something totally different once Bret started doing the Anti American thing.

Also, in the case of Cena vs Rock, Cena is at the peak of his popularity while Rock is also very popular. Austin vs Bret was a clear case of one guy's popularity rising and the other guy's popularity waning.

I agree on one point that Bret Hart was still getting cheered as Austin was starting to gain steam. Case and point was WM13 when Austin passed out. The fans still gave Hitman a pretty big pop when he won the match. After the match when Hart left the crowd erupted into an "Austin" chant.

The part I disagree with, was Bret Harts popularity was waning. He was still largely popular. Leading up to when the whole screw job happened, he was in the main event. The screwjob was and still maybe the most popular occurance in the history of wrestling. Up there with the likes of Nash and Hall showing up on WCW.

Austin/Hart was simply just a change in times, in eras. Austin blew up big and Bret Hart stayed big. Albeit as a heel most of the finish of his WWE career but his popularity was still big time.

The major difference to me is simple. Cena could turn into the biggest heel this side of Hulk Hogan NWO if the WWE just got the B A double L's to just go through with it. Whereas Hart would get booed in the states most of the time, not all of the time.(I went to an event in Philly when Hart was a "heel" and he got TONS of cheers) and Hart was well over out of the states.
 
If you compared the Rock and Hogan to Rock and Cena, I would be by this hundred percent.

We all know how the Rock and Hogan went. They went to Toronto. Hogan was the heel, and got the cheers. The Rock got the boos.

The Rock gets all the cheers, and Cena got the boos.

When it comes down to it. Cena has exploited almost all the aspects and skills of his character. We have gotten tired of it. The Rock pops in, someone we haven't seen in the ring for 7 years, and we went nuts. His promo was amazing!

Granted, Cena's audience are kids, but... The WWE's audience across the board are kids.

When Bret Hart was in the WWE 12 or 13 years, he wasn't really a big fan of the raunchy ways WWF was going. He wanted to keep with the Saturday Morning cartoon lineup, instead of prime time cable. WWF was going a new direction, and Bret Hart wasn't apart of it.

John Cena was pushed to go towards the kids. He loves doing it, but the whole WWE was doing it. Not just Cena.
 
If Cena wants to draw heel heat for targetting the under 12 demographic, fair enough.

Speaking as a 26 year old, I'll always hate him for that reason, so he may as well just come out and say it.
 
When first reading this you made Cena sound like a petafile lol..

I started watching Wrestling heavily during the Hart/Austin feud and I don't see the similarities

And if there were, there is no way they would allow it to happen to their top star twice.. seein how that turned out for Hart
 

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