Is WWE losing confidence in their main eventers

[ASKane]

I think WWE have made a few decisions over recent months may prove that their confidence in the main eventers in the company is falling. The crowds are probably the main the reason confidence is being dropped but WWE have made some decisions that I think are proof of this lowering in confidence.

1. TLC PPV has only 1 gimmick match to save all the weapon spots for Cena v Orton so no match can upstage it.

2. Big Show v Lesnar is not a true match because if they knew it would be a be a top level match and didn't want it to be criticised

3. The Shield vs Wyatt's is not in the chamber and I think this is to protect the WWE title match because Shield vs Wyatt's would upstage it

4. Rollins v Reigns v Ambrose will only happen if their is not a triple threat main event because they don't want to risk the main event being upstaged by a mid card match

That is just a few of the reasons I think WWE's confidence may be dropping because I think they are aware that their current main eventers like Cena, Orton, Batista and Lesnar can not put on as good matches as mid carders like the Shield, Bray, Bryan, Cesaro, Ziggler and others.

Do you think their confidence is dropping and if yes are there another others proofs you have seen

 

[Y 2 Jake]

Maybe WWE have just understood the value of their gimmick matches, so they don't want to overload their PPVs with them. Less is more and all that.

Obviously they have doubts over the drawing ability of their full times headliners. That's a given.

 

[ASKane]

Maybe WWE have just understood the value of their gimmick matches, so they don't want to overload their PPVs with them. Less is more and all that.

Obviously they have doubts over the drawing ability of their full times headliners. That's a given.

I think WWE BELIEVE Cena, Orton, Lesnar and Batista can draw huge money but I think they are becoming aware that their wrestling is not the standard the of the guys lower down the card like the guys I have named in the OP. I think WWE's problem is mid carders get 1 PPV to try and draw in a terrible feud and when they don't get big numbers they are straight back in the midcard, they need to give someone like Bryan 6 months as the top guy with good merch and he would become the biggest draw

 

[JoeFromTomsRiver]

3. The Shield vs Wyatt's is not in the chamber and I think this is to protect the WWE title match because Shield vs Wyatt's would upstage it

When has an Elimination Chamber match not been for a title, or for a shot at a title? Never.

Not saying it couldn't work, but it would create some issues with how these matches usually work.

1) They would need to alter the concept so each time a pod opens it has to be someone from the other side. Kind of like a "War Games" format.

2) The EC match is based on 6 opponents all against each other, where anyone can be pinned by anyone else. And if one guy is about to pin another guy, nobody else in the match would want to stop it.

Shield vs. Wyatts doesn't fit into that, you'd constantly have guys trying to prevent their teammates from getting eliminated.

 

[ASKane]

When has an Elimination Chamber match not been for a title, or for a shot at a title? Never.

Not saying it couldn't work, but it would create some issues with how these matches usually work.

1) They would need to alter the concept so each time a pod opens it has to be someone from the other side. Kind of like a "War Games" format.

2) The EC match is based on 6 opponents all against each other, where anyone can be pinned by anyone else. And if one guy is about to pin another guy, nobody else in the match would want to stop it.

Shield vs. Wyatts doesn't fit into that, you'd constantly have guys trying to prevent their teammates from getting eliminated.

To answer point 1 you start with a guy from each team in the ring and have the other 4 guys in the match in pods waiting to come in just like the regular match. Having guys break up pins is far better than having someone kick out of a finisher because when someone like Cena kicks out of about 5 finishers a match it buries the finisher. If there was only about 3 pin break ups per team in the match it would make it great

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I think it's possible that they have doubts about some of their younger main eventers though, personally, I think a good deal of those doubts are misplaced. When I see Bryan, Reigns, Rollins, Ambrose, Langston, Rhodes and a few others, I see TONS of potential that only seems to be growing when you consider how over these men have been. Daniel Bryan's popularity right now has become something of a phenomenon, one that's pretty damned unexpected, but haven't some of the most positive angles, factions, storylines and pushes come about as a result of happy accidents? Unexpected or not, his popularity is solidified among fans, the "Yes Movement" if you will has crossed over into mainstream sporting events, so I say take advantage of it before its too late.

Over the past few months, if anything, I think that lack of confidence should be placed more on some of their established main event talent rather than the younger, fresher faces. If the crowd reactions suggest anything, it's that they want fresher talent elevated into the main event spots. Orton & Cena have both been consistent presences in the main event scene for the better part of a decade, yet WWE has them feud again not only for a title but to unify the two existing World Championships, Dave Bautista has been gone for nearly four years but waltzes right back into the company as if he hasn't been gone a day and finds himself in the title match at WrestleMania and fans have vehemently voiced their disinterest in both these ideas. Why? Because fans have seen these feuds & matches many times over. Cena vs. Orton, while they can have good matches, has simply been done to death. Orton vs. Batista is a snoozefest that fans have also seen lots of times in the past. In short, fans are tired of seeing these guys go at it and want someone different. It also doesn't help that Batista simply isn't nearly as big of a star as WWE tries to hype him as.

I'm not saying that WWE should just scrap all those guys and immediately force them out of the main event scene altogether, but some people look at their continued reliance on Orton & Cena and bringing Batista back into the mix as a step backwards. It's a perception that has merit, in my opinion, because fans have been very much behind guys like Bryan, Rhodes, The Shield, Dolph Ziggler, etc. Some fans are thinking along the lines of: "These guys are really over. They're entertaining to watch. People are invested in 'em and whatever they're doing. So what's the problem? Why cram another feud from 5 or 6 years ago up our asses?"

As far as gimmick matches go, WWE generally doesn't just toss out gimmick matches just for the hell of it. Less is more when it comes to gimmick matches. Several years back, when I was watching TNA, they'd have some sort of gimmick match almost every week for quite a while. The result was a number of lame, forgettable 5 minute matches that obliterated the novelty that make such matches interesting. Also, when you consider WWE's intense touring schedule, not having gimmick matches on a regular basis is much easier on the wrestlers themselves. Hell, they get banged up enough in standard matches as it is.

 

[Mustang Sally]

.... I think they are aware that their current main eventers like Cena, Orton, Batista and Lesnar can not put on as good matches as mid carders like the Shield, Bray, Bryan, Cesaro, Ziggler and others.

Looking at the individuals you're naming, it seems to be another way of saying the older performers can't put on as good a match as the younger guys, which I dispute.

I don't think WWE is losing confidence in their main eventers as much as they're continually striving to find the right product mix. It's an ongoing, never-ending process and the only way to evaluate the job they're doing is by monitoring fan reactions and sales of PPVs and merchandise which, obviously, management is going to be doing, anyway.

As it is, my guess is that WWE might have learned from things TNA did incorrectly 4 years ago; bringing in a bunch of old-time names in pro wrestling and largely pushing aside their younger talent to cater to the old ones. (Ironic that the younger company chose to function in that manner). But WWE is featuring both old and new, letting the Cenas and Ortons do what they do best while giving the younger guys a lot of quality time to make their way up the ladder. No problem with the established guys; they're tried and true, which is as it ought to be.

I think the company is on the right track because they're positioning themselves for the future even as they continue to use the main eventers as......well, main eventers.

 

[ASKane]

I think the company is on the right track because they're positioning themselves for the future even as they continue to use the main eventers as......well, main eventers.

How are they positioning themselves for the future when the top 5 guys in the company based on what I see in terms of booking had their first major title win atleast 8 years ago (top guys are Cena, Orton, Lesnar, Batista and Undertaker). WWE has part time veterans as their biggest stars and that will be clear in the Wrestlemania card. If WWE were building for the future they would not have buried Ziggler, Sandow and others and held back Bryan and Punk just to let Cena, Orton and Batista contest for the title. The main event scene should feature the most talented wrestlers in the company and they are Bryan, Punk, Ziggler, Cesaro, Wyatt, Rollins, Reigns, Rhodes, Ambrose and Sheamus. They are my top 10 for talented guys in the company and they would create a fresh main event scene which is truly the most anticipated part of the show and would have them on the right track for the future but instead its Cena and Orton as usual and people are so uninterested in what they do that they get booed before the bell rings and the booing and chanting against the match never stop

 

[H33LTurn]

WWE always gets cold feet in regards to their current roster close to Wrestlemania, due mainly in part, because of their inability to effectively push promising talent. Between Reigns, Langston, and Bryan there is a tremendous amount of potential and it seems, until now, those careers are being crafted carefully. Remember not too many years ago Cody Rhodes and Dolph Ziggler were slated to be young main eventers, with Del Rio and CM Punk at the helm of their respective brands as upper card veterans. Things can change in the blink of an eye for the company, but I think once WWE realizes they can no longer depend on older talent such as the likes of Undertaker who could possibly be gearing up for his last Wrestlemania, things will begin to change. Look how quickly Cena was pushed when WWE realized lesnar was out of the picture during the Ruthless Aggression era. The reason people like The Rock and Batista are brought back during Wrestlemania season, has in large part, to do with Wrestlemania's ties to WWE's stock and media coverage. Wrestlemania means undeniable media exposure, and the company wants to place its greatest foot forward, even if it means fooling non-regular viewers about who's main eventing WWE's programming.

 

[L@RISANO]

How are they positioning themselves for the future when the top 5 guys in the company based on what I see in terms of booking had their first major title win atleast 8 years ago (top guys are Cena, Orton, Lesnar, Batista and Undertaker). WWE has part time veterans as their biggest stars and that will be clear in the Wrestlemania card. If WWE were building for the future they would not have buried Ziggler, Sandow and others and held back Bryan and Punk just to let Cena, Orton and Batista contest for the title. The main event scene should feature the most talented wrestlers in the company and they are Bryan, Punk, Ziggler, Cesaro, Wyatt, Rollins, Reigns, Rhodes, Ambrose and Sheamus. They are my top 10 for talented guys in the company and they would create a fresh main event scene which is truly the most anticipated part of the show and would have them on the right track for the future but instead its Cena and Orton as usual and people are so uninterested in what they do that they get booed before the bell rings and the booing and chanting against the match never stop

Didn't agree with the quotes before, but THIS here above is what is happening.


WWE has let this obviously talented Mid-Card become stagnant and have failed to build any decent New Long-Term Main Event potential superstars properly.

Thus, at this time, there is the usual John Cena and Randy Orton and now their partner,Batista has returned,which means we have been taken back to 2005 and told that there has been nothing new.

Only saving grace has been Daniel Bryan and his rise. However, from what I have seen, he has gotten his popularity in spite of WWE, and has forced them to recognise that popularity and push him accordingly.


Admittedly, the WWE are trying to push the likes of Bray Wyatt and Roman Reigns as future Top guys of the company. However, what happens if they don't get instant response from the crowd? They might also be thrown back into the dumps and go the way of the likes of Sandow, Barrett, Ryback and Ziggler.


As you said; it is not that the WWE has lost confidence in their Main Eventers and their abilities to put on a worthwhile match, it is merely that people have gotten tired of seeing the same 3 guys who were there and in the Main Event in 2005, still doing so almost ten years later.


Personally, those 3 guys can still Main Event, they still have loads of experience and star power, but WWE has to realise that new guys have to be put forward as opponents for these guys, and also these opponents have to be guys not forced down our throats but guys who are popular with the WWE Universe.

John Cena vs the Wyatt family is a rumour, and an encouraging match-up for us as fans. It is new and will go a long way in legitimising Bray Wyatt,especially for the future.


That kind of pairing is the way to go. People want freshness now, and with the roster available, there is no excuse such as,"We don't have stars!" They have to built up and exposed and allowed to grow, because, the current guys won't be around forever, and people won't keep responding to Part-Timers the same encouraging way every year.

 

[Kidpolean]

How are they positioning themselves for the future when the top 5 guys in the company based on what I see in terms of booking had their first major title win atleast 8 years ago (top guys are Cena, Orton, Lesnar, Batista and Undertaker). WWE has part time veterans as their biggest stars and that will be clear in the Wrestlemania card. If WWE were building for the future they would not have buried Ziggler, Sandow and others and held back Bryan and Punk just to let Cena, Orton and Batista contest for the title. The main event scene should feature the most talented wrestlers in the company and they are Bryan, Punk, Ziggler, Cesaro, Wyatt, Rollins, Reigns, Rhodes, Ambrose and Sheamus. They are my top 10 for talented guys in the company and they would create a fresh main event scene which is truly the most anticipated part of the show and would have them on the right track for the future but instead its Cena and Orton as usual and people are so uninterested in what they do that they get booed before the bell rings and the booing and chanting against the match never stop

This entire post is just crap. Are you just mad that your favorites aren't the top guys?

1. Why does it matter when they won their first title? Cena, Ziggler, DB, Sandow, Orton, and Lesnar are all just about five years apart and their careers will most likely be coming to an end around the same time. If you're going to argue for them to build for the future, than why would you pick people close to the same age? How is this preparing for the future when Cena will probably be around longer than all of those names? When the hell was Sandow buried? Sandow was NEVER over, IMO you have to be on a serious rise to be considered buried and Sandow has never looked like a top guy. Sandow is barely above average on the mic and the only good match he has ever had was with Cena, who you feel should move aside for guys that are 4 years younger than him and not nearly as popular.

2. Held back Bryan and Punk? So being in every top feud since July of last year, beating Cena clean at the 2nd biggest show of the year, main eventing and being in the opening segment of almost every raw and smackdown for like 5 months straight, being in a class with Cena, Orton, and Brock, that were given a singles match at the Rumble, and feuding with HHH on the road to WM is being held back? umm ok what about Punk...Lets see... so having one of the longest title reigns in wwe history, feuding with The Rock and Lesnar, having a wwe title match at WM, getting a shot at the streak, and main eventing Raw's 1000th episode is being held back? Well if this is the case than I bet you that 99% of the locker room wish they were being held back.

3.The main event scene should feature the most talented wrestlers in the company and they are Bryan, Punk, Ziggler, Cesaro, Wyatt, Rollins, Reigns, Rhodes, Ambrose and Sheamus ??? Give me a freakin break with this CRAP!!! If you want to watch generic, no mic skill having, boring wrestlers than tune in to ROH. Ambrose and Wyatt have done NOTHING to even be given the honor of being called a top 10 talent. Wyatt has had like 4 matches, and Ambrose has been boring in the ring and hasn't cut a memorable promo yet. Rhodes? the guy with some of the worst mic skills ever? the guy that is small as hell and cant do any high flying moves? the one with no personality that is currently being outshined by his much older brother? Cesaro? hahaha
I dont like Cena but the guy is SUPER talented. He is by far, the best balance of in ring ability and promo skills that the wwe has, now that Punk is gone.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Everyone says this is an inability to push new talent... that is not true, people just expect that talent to rise to the top of the card and the "main event" far too quickly...

Bret Hart wrestled a main event in his 6th Wrestlemania and it would have been 7th if the original match at 2 with Steamboat had happened. 6 Wrestlemania cards to grow to that stature from a 6 man tag at Mania 3 to runner up in the Battle Royale at 4 to squashes at 5 and 6 and then his last Tag Title defence at 7... 8 was winning the IC title from the guy who headlined the first Mania and was 2nd main event in the 3rd... Bret finally headlined at 9.... noone thought "he should have been there earlier" even if his talent was such that he could have been. Headlining those other Mania's were the same 4 guys:- Andre, Hogan, Warrior and Savage. Replace Bryan or Punk with Bret and make those 4 Orton, Cena, Batista and Brock and you have the exact same scenario.

Austin headlined his 3rd Mania but it was the right time... Shawn had to wait for 7 Manias and he could have waited one more.

When they rush it, it goes wrong. Yokozuna headlined his first 2 Mania's and it ruined him. Nash/Diesel headlined his first as a wrestler and bombed by the following Mania he was on the outs. All that work done to push him was wasted and benefitting WCW.

Sid headlined his first and bombed...so did Brock...Luger his 2nd and bombed...

Someone like Roman Reigns is headed to his 2nd Wrestlemania, Wyatt his first, Bryan his 3rd...

WWE has created great new talents but there seems a rush to get to the finish and this ridiculous notion that if you haven't gotten there in 2 years from your mid card title you failed. Thus they miss that growth. Bret worked as a headliner because he had grown to that point, proving his worth and ability against increasingly big name opposition and then getting his "test" in the story, could he avenge his loss to Yoko? and he did... and it made him cos now he was a worthy headliner of a Wrestlemania.

Someone like Ziggler or Barrett hasn't had that time to evolve in front of our eyes to be ready to headline a Mania. Arguably Punk hasn't either...

Rightly or wrongly, Cena, Triple H, Undertaker, Batista and Orton, Jericho have all grown that way they may have taken fewer years in some cases but Cena progressed at the right rate as did Batista and their headline value remains intact because they have that mainstream recognition and nostalgia value in Batista's case.

I don't think WWE is losing faith in talent, I do think they are realising they have to re-evaluate how they are measuring that talent against their objectives. Just as they had to do in '92 when the roid scandal hit and Bret was annointed. This time there is no "scandal" other than that the consumers of the product are unhappy at a time when they are focused on big deals for the TV and network... Bryan will probably get his run but it means the rest will remain in place for a while, just as in 92/93 some pushes had to wait while Yoko, Lex and Bret "bedded in" and they found which one was going to take them forward and likewise in 2004/2006 with the OVW class... only one ends up "that guy", Bret, Austin, Cena...TBC

Right now it could be Reigns, Bryan, Wyatt or even still Punk... so it means the others have to hold their place for a while. It doesn't help that fans are now far more impatient and less forgiving of repeated matches as Mania should be about the best/dream matches, not the "best for business" matches

 

[L@RISANO]

Everyone says this is an inability to push new talent... that is not true, people just expect that talent to rise to the top of the card and the "main event" far too quickly...

Bret Hart wrestled a main event in his 6th Wrestlemania and it would have been 7th if the original match at 2 with Steamboat had happened. 6 Wrestlemania cards to grow to that stature from a 6 man tag at Mania 3 to runner up in the Battle Royale at 4 to squashes at 5 and 6 and then his last Tag Title defence at 7... 8 was winning the IC title from the guy who headlined the first Mania and was 2nd main event in the 3rd... Bret finally headlined at 9.... noone thought "he should have been there earlier" even if his talent was such that he could have been.

Austin headlined his 3rd Mania but it was the right time... Shawn had to wait for 7 Manias.

When they rush it, it goes wrong. Yokozuna headlined his first 2 Mania's and it ruined him. Nash/Diesel headlined his first as a wrestler and bombed, Sid and Luger headlined their 2nd and it killed their careers.

Someone like Roman Reigns is headed to his 2nd Wrestlemania, Wyatt his first, Bryan his 3rd...

WWE has created great new talents but there seems a rush to get to the finish and this ridiculous notion that if you haven't gotten there in 2 years from your mid card title you failed. Thus they miss that growth. Bret worked as a headliner because he had grown to that point, proving his worth and ability against increasingly big name opposition and then getting his "test" in the story, could he avenge his loss to Yoko? and he did... and it made him.

Someone like Ziggler or Barrett hasn't had that time to evolve in front of our eyes to be ready to headline a Mania. Arguably Punk hasn't either...

Rightly or wrongly, Cena, Triple H, Undertaker, Batista and Orton, Jericho have all grown that way they may have taken fewer years in some cases but Cena progressed at the right rate as did Batista and their headline value remains intact because they have that mainstream recognition and nostalgia value in Batista's case.

I don't think WWE is losing faith in talent, I do think they are realising they have to re-evaluate how they are measuring that talent against their objectives. Just as they had to do in '92 when the roid scandal hit and Bret was annointed. This time there is no "scandal" other than that the consumers of the product are unhappy at a time when they are focused on big deals for the TV and network... Bryan will probably get his run but it means the rest will remain in place for a while, just as in 92/93 some pushes had to wait while Yoko, Lex and Bret "bedded in" and they found which one was going to take them forward.

Right now it could be Reigns, Bryan, Wyatt or even still Punk... so it means the others have to hold their place for a while.

I do agree that many fans are fickle and expect that the new popular guy should be in the Main Event within a year of becoming relevant. That is also a problem that the WWE have. However, they have also been burying some guys too too quickly for my liking, when they could have persisted with them in order to not have situations such a mass crowd booing of the Main Stars at Royal Rumble.

For Example; Doing the unification using John Cena and Randy Orton was acceptable, but was it sensible to have the rematch at Royal Rumble? It was blatantly obvious that no one really digs Cena vs Orton anymore. How about Cena losing his rematch on RAW the next night instead of Daniel Bryan getting screwed for no reason...
lMO, even putting Batista straight into the title match at Royal Rumble and having a different Royal Rumble winner would have been better more accepted booking,lMO.

 

[ASKane]

This entire post is just crap. Are you just mad that your favorites aren't the top guys?

1. Why does it matter when they won their first title? Cena, Ziggler, DB, Sandow, Orton, and Lesnar are all just about five years apart and their careers will most likely be coming to an end around the same time. If you're going to argue for them to build for the future, than why would you pick people close to the same age? How is this preparing for the future when Cena will probably be around longer than all of those names? When the hell was Sandow buried? Sandow was NEVER over, IMO you have to be on a serious rise to be considered buried and Sandow has never looked like a top guy. Sandow is barely above average on the mic and the only good match he has ever had was with Cena, who you feel should move aside for guys that are 4 years younger than him and not nearly as popular.

2. Held back Bryan and Punk? So being in every top feud since July of last year, beating Cena clean at the 2nd biggest show of the year, main eventing and being in the opening segment of almost every raw and smackdown for like 5 months straight, being in a class with Cena, Orton, and Brock, that were given a singles match at the Rumble, and feuding with HHH on the road to WM is being held back? umm ok what about Punk...Lets see... so having one of the longest title reigns in wwe history, feuding with The Rock and Lesnar, having a wwe title match at WM, getting a shot at the streak, and main eventing Raw's 1000th episode is being held back? Well if this is the case than I bet you that 99% of the locker room wish they were being held back.

3.The main event scene should feature the most talented wrestlers in the company and they are Bryan, Punk, Ziggler, Cesaro, Wyatt, Rollins, Reigns, Rhodes, Ambrose and Sheamus ??? Give me a freakin break with this CRAP!!! If you want to watch generic, no mic skill having, boring wrestlers than tune in to ROH. Ambrose and Wyatt have done NOTHING to even be given the honor of being called a top 10 talent. Wyatt has had like 4 matches, and Ambrose has been boring in the ring and hasn't cut a memorable promo yet. Rhodes? the guy with some of the worst mic skills ever? the guy that is small as hell and cant do any high flying moves? the one with no personality that is currently being outshined by his much older brother? Cesaro? hahaha
I dont like Cena but the guy is SUPER talented. He is by far, the best balance of in ring ability and promo skills that the wwe has, now that Punk is gone.

1) When they won their first title matters because of something called freshness. If someone has been the top guy for about 8 years like Cena chance are he will be incredibly stale and Cena is however Ziggler, Sandow and Bryan are all fresh characters who have can fresh feuds with top guys unlike Cena and Orton. The Royal Rumble crowd agreed with me that freshness is important and that's why they booed Cena, Orton and Batista. It was because they don't want to see them in the main event anymore

When was Sandow buried, that would be when he hit every move in his arsenal multiple times and Cena kept kicking out which basically said to me Sandow is weak and his moves don't do much damage and then to get pinned by a 1 arm AA that looked incredibly weak made it worse. He was beaten by a 1 armed man who he beat down before the match and then hit everything he had and could win. That's what I call burying.

2) Punk was held back because despite having a 434 day title reign very little of that WWE made the main attraction of PPV's. WWE never made Punk the main attraction unless he fought Cena or Rock. Yes Punk was given success but he was still number 2 to John Cena and 3 when Rock was back

Seriously do you understand what a clean win is, a clean win is when 1 man beats another and the loser has no excuses he was just beat by the beater man. When Bryan beat Cena what happened the night on Raw. Cena came out and said look at this massive lump on my arm which is a torn tricep and doctors said I should have had surgery 3 weeks ago. That was not clean that was 1 man beating a seriously injured opponent.

3) Why does everyone fixate on mic skills this is a wrestling show and what should be the decider for success is wrestling ability and all the guys I said have better in ring ability than Cena or Orton. I am aware they haven't done that much yet but when you are not given the opportunity how can you prove yourself. Cena and Orton night after night have the opportunity to prove themselves and they don't they still get booed and no one is interested. All guys I said are good enough on the mic if the promo works for them but the Shield guys haven't done a promo for their character yet just for the group, Wyatt is great, Rhodes and Cesaro haven't had the opportunity, Punk is the best in the company(if he is in the company), Bryan and Sheamus are passable on the mic.

Cena is not super talented, he is just booked to look like Superman but he is an average worker with a limited moveset who cant sell moves well and has weak promo skills but when he talks loudly people seem to think he is amazing. All Cena can is sell merch and tickets he cant actually wrestle. Before anyone says that everyone has a limited moveset I agree but they have perfected the moves they do Cena hasnt

 

[JoeMallard]

Rhodes? the guy with some of the worst mic skills ever? the guy that is small as hell and cant do any high flying moves?

Your points were logical until you stated this. When was the last time you saw a guy jump off the top of the cage? The guy back-flips off the top rope. He can talk on the mic, but he hasn't been given the chance to show his potential.

 

[ASKane]

Your points were logical until you stated this. When was the last time you saw a guy jump off the top of the cage? The guy back-flips off the top rope. He can talk on the mic, but he hasn't been given the chance to show his potential.

You summed up one of my main point. WWE gives Main eventers 20+ minute matches where a guy can show his full potential and only give mid card 10+ minutes if they are lucky and as a result they cant show their full potential but despite this less time I am still far more impressed over the last 6 months with what guys like Cody have done than what Cena and Orton have

 

[THTRobtaylor]

This entire post is just crap. Are you just mad that your favorites aren't the top guys?

1. Why does it matter when they won their first title? Cena, Ziggler, DB, Sandow, Orton, and Lesnar are all just about five years apart and their careers will most likely be coming to an end around the same time. If you're going to argue for them to build for the future, than why would you pick people close to the same age? How is this preparing for the future when Cena will probably be around longer than all of those names? When the hell was Sandow buried? Sandow was NEVER over, IMO you have to be on a serious rise to be considered buried and Sandow has never looked like a top guy. Sandow is barely above average on the mic and the only good match he has ever had was with Cena, who you feel should move aside for guys that are 4 years younger than him and not nearly as popular.

2. Held back Bryan and Punk? So being in every top feud since July of last year, beating Cena clean at the 2nd biggest show of the year, main eventing and being in the opening segment of almost every raw and smackdown for like 5 months straight, being in a class with Cena, Orton, and Brock, that were given a singles match at the Rumble, and feuding with HHH on the road to WM is being held back? umm ok what about Punk...Lets see... so having one of the longest title reigns in wwe history, feuding with The Rock and Lesnar, having a wwe title match at WM, getting a shot at the streak, and main eventing Raw's 1000th episode is being held back? Well if this is the case than I bet you that 99% of the locker room wish they were being held back.

3.The main event scene should feature the most talented wrestlers in the company and they are Bryan, Punk, Ziggler, Cesaro, Wyatt, Rollins, Reigns, Rhodes, Ambrose and Sheamus ??? Give me a freakin break with this CRAP!!! If you want to watch generic, no mic skill having, boring wrestlers than tune in to ROH. Ambrose and Wyatt have done NOTHING to even be given the honor of being called a top 10 talent. Wyatt has had like 4 matches, and Ambrose has been boring in the ring and hasn't cut a memorable promo yet. Rhodes? the guy with some of the worst mic skills ever? the guy that is small as hell and cant do any high flying moves? the one with no personality that is currently being outshined by his much older brother? Cesaro? hahaha
I dont like Cena but the guy is SUPER talented. He is by far, the best balance of in ring ability and promo skills that the wwe has, now that Punk is gone.

As mentioned in my prior post, when someone wins their first title is CRUCIALLY important and can be too fast as well as too slow their age doesn't always come into it...

Diesel was pushed to the moon within 2 years of being Vinnie Vegas, the character had a great thing going and it stalled the moment he got the title. Why? Was it cos he was "too young?" no, Nash was at his physical prime and had some life experience and limited ring experience, but in terms of the WWE the fans had no time to get used to him as Diesel the wrestler because even after that impressive Rumble performance, he was back to being the body guard...then the tag/IC champ which was working that whole angle with Shawn could have gone one more year before putting the belt on Nash and Shawn could have waited a year longer to headline against him. But they rushed it, booked his win and push in general poorly and the excitement he had generated was lost by the time he made it to the next Rumble as Champion. The shortsightedness of not signing him to a new deal at that time, so he could then walk to WCW a year later was terrible but in some ways a blessing because he had bombed, not cos Nash was bad or even particularly how he was booked as champion but cos we never bought how he got there, never got comfy with him before being asked to accept him as carrying the torch, the prior generation had all grown into the role. When Savage won the title, it was fitting, not rushed, likewise for Warrior to a slightly lesser extent.

Contrast that with the rise of Mark Henry... He joined in 1996 with the hopes of being a major star. Vince had so much faith he gave him a Million a year on a ten year deal... 10 years later Mark Henry had not reached that intended slot, but had grown as a worker so we could buy him as ECW champion by then... he was very expensive for that slot however and when he renegotiated it would have been for less, still a great deal compared to others though...why?

Vince still had some faith in him and then lo and behold something clicked with Henry both in the ring and with the fans. He won his first World title after FIFTEEN YEARS on the WWE roster and it fit perfectly, it was almost like it was meant to be that long. sure it didn't last long due to injury etc but that for that 4 months he had the title he was carrying the company in a legitemate sense... he was a true main eventer and remains so as a result. Had they pushed Henry in 1996/97 straight to the title which they could have done in place of Sid for example then it would have bombed.

Some CAN win the title in double quick time, Sheamus won both the ECW and WWE title's in as short a span of Diesel, but the mistakes were learned from and the short time win only fed his momentum rather than hurting it. The only minor flaw was the use of the table gimmick to win the title... but it allowed Cena to lose the title without the pinfall which was important to WWE and no doubt a concession for him putting over the "new guy". Ric Flair won the title 3 months after he debuted on TV but it was the right time for him to do it. He was older than his competitors in Bret, Shawn, Hennig and even Savage but that didn't matter.

The danger of making it about age is that you have to go ever younger... some like Orton, The Rock, Reigns and Bray have that 2nd gen advantage. They have grown up wrestling, with wrestlers in the family, as friends, "play" wrestling with the kids of other wrestlers and having wise and knowledgable veterans "on tap" to help them on their chosen path, even before they sign their WWE deal. They can start and rise younger because their grounding is already done, the respect for the business is there in who their family is so they generally don't "pay dues" in the same way. If it's about age then you're looking at guys being done if they're not champ by 25 as WWE won't let anyone on the roster under 21 and generally won't hire without a college education.

Whether you like the top 6 guys in the WWE right now, they have all paid their dues many times over to be there. Bryan arguably has with that Mania squash, Punk possibly with his performances over the years but none of the others are yet to... Sandow, Dolph, Kofi, Barrett have all put in strong shifts, lost to who they are told to and done their jobs... but they haven't electrified the crowd yet in the way Cena, Batista, Orton, Brock, Taker and Triple H have over the years... the get the honor this year... and the others get to stake their claim for the honor next year and beyond.

 

[Kidpolean]

Your points were logical until you stated this. When was the last time you saw a guy jump off the top of the cage? The guy back-flips off the top rope. He can talk on the mic, but he hasn't been given the chance to show his potential.

Umm..Your point is not logical. A moonsault is one of the most basic high flying moves someone can do. That doesnt make Rhodes a high flyer, he simply took a chance to get a pop in hopes that it will get him more over. I guarantee you that 95% of the roster could do that same spot. It was a simple backflip and if you cant do a simple backflip from that high up than you probably dont deserve to call yourself an athlete. There is a difference between cant and wont, most people wouldnt do that spot because of the possibility of injury but that doesnt mean that they cant.

Rhodes is pretty bad on the mic.There is a reason he doesnt get a chance to talk. Punk, even before he was a main eventer, was given plenty of promo time and thats because he was GOOD at it. Santino is another guy that was given a good amount of time to speak even though he was lower on the card because he was GOOD at it. I really hate this argument of people not getting a chance. Rhodes has been in pretty big storylines and has been around for years. The wwe knows that talking is not something he is good at and that is why he doesn't get alot of promo opportunities.

 

[Kidpolean]

1) When they won their first title matters because of something called freshness. If someone has been the top guy for about 8 years like Cena chance are he will be incredibly stale and Cena is however Ziggler, Sandow and Bryan are all fresh characters who have can fresh feuds with top guys unlike Cena and Orton. The Royal Rumble crowd agreed with me that freshness is important and that's why they booed Cena, Orton and Batista. It was because they don't want to see them in the main event anymore

When was Sandow buried, that would be when he hit every move in his arsenal multiple times and Cena kept kicking out which basically said to me Sandow is weak and his moves don't do much damage and then to get pinned by a 1 arm AA that looked incredibly weak made it worse. He was beaten by a 1 armed man who he beat down before the match and then hit everything he had and could win. That's what I call burying.

2) Punk was held back because despite having a 434 day title reign very little of that WWE made the main attraction of PPV's. WWE never made Punk the main attraction unless he fought Cena or Rock. Yes Punk was given success but he was still number 2 to John Cena and 3 when Rock was back

Seriously do you understand what a clean win is, a clean win is when 1 man beats another and the loser has no excuses he was just beat by the beater man. When Bryan beat Cena what happened the night on Raw. Cena came out and said look at this massive lump on my arm which is a torn tricep and doctors said I should have had surgery 3 weeks ago. That was not clean that was 1 man beating a seriously injured opponent.

3) Why does everyone fixate on mic skills this is a wrestling show and what should be the decider for success is wrestling ability and all the guys I said have better in ring ability than Cena or Orton. I am aware they haven't done that much yet but when you are not given the opportunity how can you prove yourself. Cena and Orton night after night have the opportunity to prove themselves and they don't they still get booed and no one is interested. All guys I said are good enough on the mic if the promo works for them but the Shield guys haven't done a promo for their character yet just for the group, Wyatt is great, Rhodes and Cesaro haven't had the opportunity, Punk is the best in the company(if he is in the company), Bryan and Sheamus are passable on the mic.

Cena is not super talented, he is just booked to look like Superman but he is an average worker with a limited moveset who cant sell moves well and has weak promo skills but when he talks loudly people seem to think he is amazing. All Cena can is sell merch and tickets he cant actually wrestle. Before anyone says that everyone has a limited moveset I agree but they have perfected the moves they do Cena hasnt

You are either a troll or an idiot

1. Dont change the meaning of winning clean to fit your specific argument. DB beat Cena with no outside interference or ref bumps at the second biggest event of the year for the wwe title. That is CLEAN. Who cares about an injury, wrestling is fake and the crowd knows that. BTW the wwe NEVER mentioned Cena being injured as a reason for DB winning. If it wasnt meant to look like a clean win than HHH would have mentioned this when he was destroying DB in promos on raw every weak. Cena's character is one that accepts a lose and doesnt make excuses, so it wouldnt even be in his character to complain about his injury. Cena has made a career off of overcoming ridiculous odds, so this is no different than just about any other Cena situation.

2. Sandow should thank Cena for making him relevant for a night. Cena gave Sandow what will probably be the best match he will ever have. And IMO that match made Sandow look strong, it showed us that Sandow can hang with the "big boys"

3. Punk was held back because he was the number 2 guy in the company? Yea ok guy...so I guess The Rock was held back in the late 90's too right? Cena is the top guy the same way Hogan was, the same way HBK was, the same way Austin was...The company has always revolved around ONE top guy with everyone else playing a specific role. To say Punk was held down because he wasnt made the "face" of the company is just plain DUMB.

4. "this is a wrestling show and what should be the decider for success is wrestling ability" This statement is by far one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. Wrestling is entertainment and always has been. Did you like the AE? That was a era dominated by entertainers NOT technical wrestlers. Without Hogan, there wouldnt be a Wrestlemania for everyone on here to complain about, without Austin and The Rock we would probably be watching WCW...none of these guys were the best in the ring. Like I said if you want undersized, no mic skills having wrestlers that do a bunch of chain grappling, sit in submission holds for 15 minutes, and do 10000 moves in one match than watch ROH and pray that they dont go out of business in the next 5 years.

5. Cena bad on the mic? Im not even going to argue this because it is just so beyond STUPID that it doesnt even deserve a proper response.

 

[CrucifiedRaven]

Everyone says this is an inability to push new talent... that is not true, people just expect that talent to rise to the top of the card and the "main event" far too quickly...

Bret Hart wrestled a main event in his 6th Wrestlemania and it would have been 7th if the original match at 2 with Steamboat had happened. 6 Wrestlemania cards to grow to that stature from a 6 man tag at Mania 3 to runner up in the Battle Royale at 4 to squashes at 5 and 6 and then his last Tag Title defence at 7... 8 was winning the IC title from the guy who headlined the first Mania and was 2nd main event in the 3rd... Bret finally headlined at 9.... noone thought "he should have been there earlier" even if his talent was such that he could have been. Headlining those other Mania's were the same 4 guys:- Andre, Hogan, Warrior and Savage. Replace Bryan or Punk with Bret and make those 4 Orton, Cena, Batista and Brock and you have the exact same scenario.

Austin headlined his 3rd Mania but it was the right time... Shawn had to wait for 7 Manias and he could have waited one more.

When they rush it, it goes wrong. Yokozuna headlined his first 2 Mania's and it ruined him. Nash/Diesel headlined his first as a wrestler and bombed by the following Mania he was on the outs. All that work done to push him was wasted and benefitting WCW.

Sid headlined his first and bombed...so did Brock...Luger his 2nd and bombed...

Someone like Roman Reigns is headed to his 2nd Wrestlemania, Wyatt his first, Bryan his 3rd...

WWE has created great new talents but there seems a rush to get to the finish and this ridiculous notion that if you haven't gotten there in 2 years from your mid card title you failed. Thus they miss that growth. Bret worked as a headliner because he had grown to that point, proving his worth and ability against increasingly big name opposition and then getting his "test" in the story, could he avenge his loss to Yoko? and he did... and it made him cos now he was a worthy headliner of a Wrestlemania.

Someone like Ziggler or Barrett hasn't had that time to evolve in front of our eyes to be ready to headline a Mania. Arguably Punk hasn't either...

Rightly or wrongly, Cena, Triple H, Undertaker, Batista and Orton, Jericho have all grown that way they may have taken fewer years in some cases but Cena progressed at the right rate as did Batista and their headline value remains intact because they have that mainstream recognition and nostalgia value in Batista's case.

I don't think WWE is losing faith in talent, I do think they are realising they have to re-evaluate how they are measuring that talent against their objectives. Just as they had to do in '92 when the roid scandal hit and Bret was annointed. This time there is no "scandal" other than that the consumers of the product are unhappy at a time when they are focused on big deals for the TV and network... Bryan will probably get his run but it means the rest will remain in place for a while, just as in 92/93 some pushes had to wait while Yoko, Lex and Bret "bedded in" and they found which one was going to take them forward and likewise in 2004/2006 with the OVW class... only one ends up "that guy", Bret, Austin, Cena...TBC

Bret actually did wrestle at 'Mania 2 in the battle royal with Andre ^^

But generally I agree with the rest of your post. New stars like The Shield and The Wyatts shouldn't be hot shotted into the main event. They should evolve organically, and they'll have longer lasting power that way. Just look at Ryback. Too much too soon and now he's a jobber.

The problem for CM Punk and Daniel Bryan is that, like you said with Austin, the time was right. For Bryan, the time is right now. For Punk... it was probably 'Mania 28 or 29.

I do think that Cena and Orton are having a bit of a Hogan moment where they're overexposed, been pushed at the top for too long, and fans are getting sick. They can still be used, but not in the title picture, and I think fans would be happier.

 

[kumarjtk]

you doesnt mention Daniel Bryan as a main eventer. He is one of the contender in ec chamber match and triple threat at wm30. according to your point the mid carders outnumbered DB match.

 

[bioshock]

When has an Elimination Chamber match not been for a title, or for a shot at a title? Never.

Not saying it couldn't work, but it would create some issues with how these matches usually work.

1) They would need to alter the concept so each time a pod opens it has to be someone from the other side. Kind of like a "War Games" format.

2) The EC match is based on 6 opponents all against each other, where anyone can be pinned by anyone else. And if one guy is about to pin another guy, nobody else in the match would want to stop it.

Shield vs. Wyatts doesn't fit into that, you'd constantly have guys trying to prevent their teammates from getting eliminated.

Funny.

You do know the Chamber is still based on War Games. Team vs Team. And guys constantly preventing their teammates from being eliminated would make for a damn good 6 man tag match inside a chamber.

 

[JoeFromTomsRiver]

Funny.

You do know the Chamber is still based on War Games. Team vs Team. And guys constantly preventing their teammates from being eliminated would make for a damn good 6 man tag match inside a chamber.

That's fine. I'm just saying that the "rules" of the match would need to be tweaked from what they have been. No "random" pods opening, just have it alternate from team A to team B. I'm not against it. Sounds good actually after thinking about it a bit more.

 

[ASKane]

you doesnt mention Daniel Bryan as a main eventer. He is one of the contender in ec chamber match and triple threat at wm30. according to your point the mid carders outnumbered DB match.

In terms of WWE booking what gives me reason to believe he is a main eventer. Speculation about main event matches doesn't make you a main eventer because if it did we would be calling Roman Reigns a main eventer