Is Wal-Mart bad for the Country?

[#hamler]

Wal-Mart. It is the biggest American retailer. It has a huge impact not only on the local economy but on the global one as well. The company’s strategy strives to have the lowest possible prices than their competition. With that said, Wal-mart is often a sure sign of America's greed and wealth. Before I go on, I propose the question: Is Wal-Mart good or bad for the country?

Wal-Mart. Is. GOD!

1. Wal-Mart often provides jobs to anyone over the age of 16 and helps America's always growing employment rate. In 2009 alone, Wal-Mart provided the United States with approx. 22,000 jobs. Wal-Mart provides jobs and self-esteem for unskilled and handicapped workers. Wal-Mart regularly employs individuals with no skills as well as handicapped workers, providing them with real work in the economy, not jobs created specifically for them. Not only does this enable many people to begin a financially independent life, it also provides a sense of self worth.

2. Their products and goods are cheap. Any neccessities you need are there for a low price and nearly everyone, poor or not, can afford their products. Wal-Mart has a strong distribution chain that makes it possible for people in a town of 5,000 in the middle of Kentucky to be able to choose between dozens of brands. Forty years ago, this type of freedom of choice did not exist, but thanks (mainly) to Wal-Mart, it does today.

Wal-Mart is Scum

1. Wal-Mart often has horrible working conditions. With nearly two million employees, Wal-Mart has faced numerous lawsuits and issues with regards to its workforce. These issues involve low wages, poor working conditions, bad health care, as well as issues involving the company's strong anti-union policies. Wal-Mart has a high turnover rate. This is evidence of an unhappy workforce. Approximately 70% of its employees leave within the first year.

2. Wal-Mart offers their workers bad employee benefits. In 2005, Wal-Mart's health insurance covered approx. 572,000 of its nearly 2 million workers. Wal-Mart's rival and wholeseller Costco insures approximately 96% of its eligible workers. Wal-Mart spends an average of $3,500 per employee for health care, 27% less than the retail-industry average of $4,800.

3. Wal-Mart ass rapes small businesses. While many argue Wal-Mart may offer low prices, at the same time, these lower prices draw customers away from other smaller businesses, hurting the community. Smaller stores and businesses can't compete with Wal-Mart's low prices and are usually forced to shut down usually forming a ghost town effect.

My Opinion

Wal-Mart operates completely within the laws of the United States. Am I correct? If you believe their wages are too low, you should join the movement to raise the minimum wage. If you think they’re not offered appropriate health care, you should join the movement for universal health care. Wal-Mart's goal is to provide inexpensive products to consumers and they do this phenomenally well, but within what’s allowed in the United States. If you don't like it, go somewhere and pay the extra dollar for the exact same thing.

Is Wal-Mart good or bad for the country?

Discuss my opinion, the pro and cons, or whatever you feel needs to be said.

 

[lenguy]

First off, lol...Wal-Mart. Interesting Topic.

Well, okay, is Wal-Mart good or bad for a country? It really depends on which side you take, the argument can be split and told both ways. For one like you pointed out Hamler, the prices are very low always beating out their competitors. This is good because it makes it easier for struggling families to maintain a living, gives them something to afford. The rang in items you can find is vastly wide, it has a little bit of everything which is also good because it saves you the need to float from store to store and chances are if you can find it then it will be at a lower cost than another retail store, but it does not carry everything and does not specialize in one area but more so diversifies in many..which can be a disadvantage.

Wal-Mart does in fact create a lot of jobs and is a good starting place for that first time jobs. But for every job it creates the turn over is almost equal. Working conditions can be down right repugnant at times. At at My local Wal-Mart, there are a lot of employees that aren't treated with very much respect and the higher ups can be very demanding and difficult to work with. With that said, the money can be sometimes depressing, especially if your trying to sustain a living. You would need to put in a lot of hours just to make a decent pay cheque plus with little to no benefits, it will exhaust your wallet pretty fast albeit. An area they need to improve on if they want employee loyalty to improve.

Then, as you so bluntly put it, Wal-Mart ass rapes small businesses lol. Its true, in the small town I grew up it, we pretty much relied on those small family own business for all our needs and they relied on each other to make a livable income. Then news spread that we were to get a Wal-Mart and well, half the tow was ecstatic and the other half were rather concerned(namely those who owned those small businesses). When the opening day arrived, people flooded the store for weeks, then months, then years. Eventually, these small business owners had to concede to the retail giant. Many had to close down and those ones that did, moved away in order to maybe start up again somewhere else. Its a sad effect and many residents are fighting to counter this and protest the arrival of Wal-Mart in order to keep their business alive and thriving.

My opinion.: Wal-Mart is both good and bad in many aspects. Whether you love it or hate it you can't deny the presence it brings. The prices are always a bargain and it helps the struggling families to maintain and afford some kind of living. It diversifies in many area,food,clothing,automotive,medicine,recreation, electronics,home improvement, you name it, Wal-Mart has it. On the objective side, employment turn over is large and employment satisfaction is low. Lack of decent wages to any benefits will hurt employment. Then there is the overall fact the Wal-Mart overtakes the community on dominates over the small guy and kills them off. It creates jobs, but then it can also take them away. So Wal-Mart is good in some aspects and bad in others, depending on how you look at it.

This was a cool thread, next time you should create one on the fast food restaurant chains and make a case for how they are a leading cause in obesity or make an opposing casing. I might be mistake but I think the topic might have been done before but if you did the same type of layout that you did for this thread I think it would be much more sophisticated, get that shit done!

 

[vpjl96]

I say both because walmart helps our ecomnic problems & helps with food & all that yet the working conditions can be harsh or it stops small business from
opening that's how I feel about wal mArt

 

[SalvIsWin]

Wal-Mart is bad, as is almost any business that becomes very, very large. There's a couple reasons why it's bad:

• Wal-Mart doesn't help the economy. Wal-Mart creates job, and Wal-Mart also takes away jobs. Wal-Mart doesn't make the majority of its goods in the USA for example, so all the manufacturing jobs are going elsewhere.
• Wal-Mart is so big at this point that it can strongarm government into getting its way. You want to tax Wal-Mart? They'll just pack up and go to a cheaper country and import the goods, now you still have no competition, and you have none of the manufacturing jobs.

Wal-Mart is beneficial for the people who own Wal-Mart and that's it. Wal-Mart creates few jobs, but takes away so, so, so much more by funneling all the business to itself, and then having all the high-demand products created in the cheapest possible place. Wal-Mart is only beneficial if you think of it's impact in the simplest of terms.

 

[Mac Attack]

Walmart is bad for the country.

Which country you are referring to, I don't know however it is bad for countries in general. Walmart generally placed in a rural area decreases the amount of specialized home stores. The problem with this is that we lose specialization which has been key to any country for all eternity and it also doesn't allow for market competition, which in a free market makes for a better economy. However Walmart also provides a lot of workers, except for the majority of the manufacturing plants are in the wonderful partially communistic China. Which doesn't necessarily have good rules on product standards which in turn allows for faulty products. As I am assuming we are talking about a Northern American country in reference to the thread title I will aslo say that Walmart does help the economy as their is taxation on every product that Walmart sells and these taxes go directly to the government, However as mentioned before specialized stores theoretically allow more money to be sent to government.

Now don't get me wrong there are the benefits to Walmart.

If anyone actually wants more actual economical reasons as to why Walmart harms a country feel free to ask, as there are many reasons as to why Walmart hurt economy.

 

[SavageTaker]

I could have swore I made a thread about Wal-Mart in the CL at some point, I guess not.

Anyways, is Wal-Mart bad for the country? Hell no. Yes, it usually does drive small businesses out because they can't compete with prices and whatnot. But other than that, I don't really see many more negatives. They employ tons of people to work in their stores and they are pretty cheap. With the economy the way it is, most people are probably looking towards purchasing cheaper items and Wal-Mart is able to provide those items at very low prices. Also, I don't know how much taxes Wal-Mart pays but I'm sure some of the money they make goes into the local economy which is always a good thing.

Wal-Mart is bad, as is almost any business that becomes very, very large. There's a couple reasons why it's bad:

• Wal-Mart doesn't help the economy. Wal-Mart creates job, and Wal-Mart also takes away jobs. Wal-Mart doesn't make the majority of its goods in the USA for example, so all the manufacturing jobs are going elsewhere.

I will agree that they take away jobs because they drive smaller businesses out of town but they do create more jobs than they take away. So they basically make up any jobs lost by creating a lot more by hiring people to work in their stores.

• Wal-Mart is so big at this point that it can strongarm government into getting its way. You want to tax Wal-Mart? They'll just pack up and go to a cheaper country and import the goods, now you still have no competition, and you have none of the manufacturing jobs.

Yeah, because it's so easy to just pack up a giant business like Wal-Mart and move to another country. Please spare me that argument. If the government decided to impose larger taxes on them they would most likely just accept them but as a result might lay off a few people which just sucks but that's how things work, in this country at least.

Wal-Mart is beneficial for the people who own Wal-Mart and that's it. Wal-Mart creates few jobs, but takes away so, so, so much more by funneling all the business to itself, and then having all the high-demand products created in the cheapest possible place. Wal-Mart is only beneficial if you think of it's impact in the simplest of terms.

So, creating about 1.4 million jobs in America is “few jobs?”

Source: http://www.businessinsider.com/walmart-employees-pay

They employ about 1% of America, it may seem like a small percentage but once you see how many people that is it becomes a huge number. Furthermore, not only does Wal-Mart employ a plethora of people therefore other people who don't own Wal-Mart benefit, they also provide much cheaper items than small businesses most of the times. As a result it helps low income families save some money by not having to pay high prices for everything they purchase. I don't know about you, but I'd rather get something for $5 at Wal-Mart than for triple that in some other place. So yeah, there are many more people that benefit outside of the people that own Wal-Mart.

 

[HBK-aholic]

We have this same debate in England in regards to Tesco. I've always loved the argument 'it's bad for communities because small shops can't afford to sell things that cheap' Um, so? These big stores are bad for allowing me to get my shopping cheaper? The only people who use that argument are those who are friends with the people who own the 'local store'. Well, guess what? The whole point of competition between stores is that prices come down and benefit us, the shopper. If your local store can't do that, that store loses, and the big supermarket wins. You don't take out the big supermarket and continue making everyone pay a lot more for their shopping.

Also I'm very sure opening a new Tesco, or Wal-Mart, will employ more people than your small local store does, and give me more choice, and value for money. This is a no-brainer.

 

[SalvIsWin]

Anyways, is Wal-Mart bad for the country? Hell no. Yes, it usually does drive small businesses out because they can't compete with prices and whatnot. But other than that, I don't really see many more negatives. They employ tons of people to work in their stores and they are pretty cheap. With the economy the way it is, most people are probably looking towards purchasing cheaper items and Wal-Mart is able to provide those items at very low prices. Also, I don't know how much taxes Wal-Mart pays but I'm sure some of the money they make goes into the local economy which is always a good thing.

You're looking at the pros and cons of Wal-Mart in the simplest terms, "They make jobs, they sell cheap goods, and they drive up surrounding land value. Sure a few small businesses go under, but so what." You're completely ignoring the broader sociological implications of Wal-Mart, which is that they are beginning to have a monopoly on goods, they are big enough to wield considerable political power and influence, and the only interest they have is the profit margin - which can be said for a lot of people/businesses, but when they are this large it's a problem.

I will agree that they take away jobs because they drive smaller businesses out of town but they do create more jobs than they take away. So they basically make up any jobs lost by creating a lot more by hiring people to work in their stores.

No, I disagree. With small businesses, the manufacturing of goods stays in the country, it's not feasible or worthwhile for a business to import in small amounts of goods, whereas for a large company, it is well worth it to import large amounts of bulk goods from overseas. Everything in Wal-Mart is made in China, so while they hire cashiers, stockers, managers, etc - which are jobs that would exist with smaller businesses, they take all the manufacturing of the goods that they sell, and put them in a country where they can pay people very, very little money. We don't tax their imports very much, so it's completely profitable for them to do this.

Yeah, because it's so easy to just pack up a giant business like Wal-Mart and move to another country. Please spare me that argument. If the government decided to impose larger taxes on them they would most likely just accept them but as a result might lay off a few people which just sucks but that's how things work, in this country at least.

Everything is made in China, so they've already packed up and moved elsewhere. It's not a matter of opinion whether or not Wal-Mart makes their goods elsewhere and imports them in, it's a fact that they do. They do this because it's cheaper to make their goods elsewhere, where they won't be taxed or have to pay much for labour. They don't lose any business because they still sell their goods in their stores and the country doesn't do anything about it.

So, creating about 1.4 million jobs in America is “few jobs?”

Source: http://www.businessinsider.com/walmart-employees-pay

They employ about 1% of America, it may seem like a small percentage but once you see how many people that is it becomes a huge number. Furthermore, not only does Wal-Mart employ a plethora of people therefore other people who don't own Wal-Mart benefit, they also provide much cheaper items than small businesses most of the times. As a result it helps low income families save some money by not having to pay high prices for everything they purchase. I don't know about you, but I'd rather get something for $5 at Wal-Mart than for triple that in some other place. So yeah, there are many more people that benefit outside of the people that own Wal-Mart.

The same goods being sold by small businesses would have the same jobs here, and would have the manufacturing in the same country because it's not feasible to import in all your goods when you're not a big corporation. Wal-Mart is a huge company so it can afford to have it's manufacturing elsewhere and import in all of it's products.

That's besides the point though because it's not all about jobs. Wal-Mart has interests, and these interest groups lobby to politicians, fund their campaigns, and make donations. In return, politicians look out for Wal-Mart instead of looking out for the middle class and the poor. So they don't mind Wal-Mart taking all the manufacturing out of the country and importing in their goods with very little taxes. They don't mind have a system where it's more lucrative for a business to take jobs elsewhere, except for the essential jobs needed to shovel more of their products into American households.

This is why Americans get fucked in the ass on their education, on their health-care, and their taxes. Politicians give more and more breaks to corporations that help them get elected, and they have to make up for it somehow, and that comes at the expense of the people - by any means necessary. This isn't to insinuate that Wal-Mart is the main cause of this, but they contribute their share.

To summarize, Wal-Mart has created a scenario where they employ a larger, and larger amount of American non-unionized workers. The more people buy Wal-Mart goods, the larger demand there is. The larger demand there is, the more manufacturing Wal-Mart needs, but Wal-Mart cares about money, so they produce their goods in China, or other countries where they are barely taxed and have to pay small wages. Then when they ship over their goods, the government doesn't tax them enough, so it's cheaper to send more and more manufacturing jobs out of the country. All this does is create a scenario in which jobs like cashiers, clerks, stockers, managers etc - which would be here for small businesses or large businesses - are maintained, but everything else is done elsewhere.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Wal-mart. The only way you'd think Wal-mart is bad is if you watched that absolutely horrendous Robert Greenwald documentary. The only glaringly bad thing about Wal-mart is how little they pay their employees and how (relatively speaking) poorly they treat them. If one wants to make a career for themselves in Wal-mart, I'd advise them to instead think about making a career for themselves in big-box retail and only see Wal-mart as a stepping stone; you can do the same job at places like Wegman's, Costco, and Home Depot but get paid at least twice as much. So, if you're currently working at Wal-mart, work hard, get good recommendations, and look for a similar job with another company.

 

[Hyorinmaru]

As someone who works for Walmart let me say a few things.

The only thing I'm not happy with is how much I make. I don't make near enough for all the work I do. The people I work for and with are awesome as are the working conditions.

There are still plenty of businesses in in Ithaca (small & otherwise0 so I'm not seeing where they are shutting down everything else.

I'm officialy part time so I don't get the option of health insurance yet but if you don't like the insurance Walmart provides then get your own. yeah it'll be more expensive but it will have everything you personally need in a Health insurance plan.

In closing there is nothing wrong with Walmart. They not only provide jobs here in the states but around the world.

 

[SalvIsWin]

These big stores are bad for allowing me to get my shopping cheaper? ... The whole point of competition between stores is that prices come down and benefit us, the shopper.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Wal-mart.

In closing there is nothing wrong with Walmart. They not only provide jobs here in the states but around the world.

Are you three comfortable with more and more manufacturing jobs, which typically pay much higher wages, are backed by unions, and often have full pensions being sent overseas? Even if Wal-Mart created jobs on a 1:1 basis, which is to say, even if for every job they shut down, they created a new one, it still wouldn't be even close to equal because the jobs that they take away have benefits, higher wages, pensions, etc. Wal-Mart employees don't make very much at all, certainly not enough to live on.

Americans are so impressed with their cheap goods that they don't realize they are shopping themselves into a hole and out of good jobs.

 

[SavageTaker]

You're looking at the pros and cons of Wal-Mart in the simplest terms, "They make jobs, they sell cheap goods, and they drive up surrounding land value. Sure a few small businesses go under, but so what."

And what is so bad about that? You put a Wal-Mart in any town and a bunch of jobs are instantly created. Believe it or not, that's actually a good thing and ends up helping out tons of people all over America and the world. So with Wal-Mart coming in and creating tons of jobs for Americans, it gets people of their asses at home where they weren't doing anything worthwhile and it gets them working therefore they earn a living. Sure, you won't be earning $20 an hour but at least you'll be working and you'll be making money which allows you to provide for yourself and a family if you have one.

You're completely ignoring the broader sociological implications of Wal-Mart, which is that they are beginning to have a monopoly on goods, they are big enough to wield considerable political power and influence, and the only interest they have is the profit margin - which can be said for a lot of people/businesses, but when they are this large it's a problem.

Their only interest is them having a profit margin? Good for them then, I'm glad they are smart enough to realize that as a business they're supposed to be making a profit. EVERY single business has one main goal in common and that goal is to make money from products or services offered to consumers. There's absolutely nothing with that.

No, I disagree. With small businesses, the manufacturing of goods stays in the country, it's not feasible or worthwhile for a business to import in small amounts of goods, whereas for a large company, it is well worth it to import large amounts of bulk goods from overseas.

You're right, with small businesses the manufacturing of goods usually do stay in the country. But even then, it's not like they are really making a huge difference, economically speaking, by having small businesses manufacture goods here.

Everything in Wal-Mart is made in China,

As is a bunch of products you and I purchase. If everything was made right here in America, then you and me would be paying much more for simple, everyday items. I'd rather things keep getting made in China so I can buy them cheap here.

so while they hire cashiers, stockers, managers, etc - which are jobs that would exist with smaller businesses, they take all the manufacturing of the goods that they sell, and put them in a country where they can pay people very, very little money. We don't tax their imports very much, so it's completely profitable for them to do this.

I won't disagree with mom and pop businesses needeing cashiers, managers and all of those other roles however the main difference between a mom and pop and business and a company like Wal-Mart when it comes to things like that is that Wal-Mart hires more people. In a small business that's family ran you'll only need like 1 or 2 managers. In Wal-Mart, they need a lot more managers than that since they are much bigger. So yes, small businesses need cashiers and managers too, but they don't employ anything close the amount of people Wal-Mart does.

Everything is made in China, so they've already packed up and moved elsewhere. It's not a matter of opinion whether or not Wal-Mart makes their goods elsewhere and imports them in, it's a fact that they do. They do this because it's cheaper to make their goods elsewhere, where they won't be taxed or have to pay much for labour. They don't lose any business because they still sell their goods in their stores and the country doesn't do anything about it.

They've moved all of their manufacturing factories elsewhere, but that's not where they get their profit from. They profit because of the stores where they sell those goods that are manufactured elsewhere. It would cost them possibly billions to really just pack up their stores and close down their stores here. Then on top of that, they'd have to pay even more to have new stores built in other countries. Wal-Mart is already established here and make billions here, there is really no reason for them to all of a sudden decide to go somewhere else just because of a raise on taxes.

The same goods being sold by small businesses would have the same jobs here, and would have the manufacturing in the same country because it's not feasible to import in all your goods when you're not a big corporation. Wal-Mart is a huge company so it can afford to have it's manufacturing elsewhere and import in all of it's products.

I think I already argued this point before. Yes, they hire the same jobs but not nearly the same amount of people a Wal-Mart does. As a result, it's better to have a Wal-Mart than a small business because they offer much more job opportunities.

That's besides the point though because it's not all about jobs. Wal-Mart has interests, and these interest groups lobby to politicians, fund their campaigns, and make donations. In return, politicians look out for Wal-Mart instead of looking out for the middle class and the poor. So they don't mind Wal-Mart taking all the manufacturing out of the country and importing in their goods with very little taxes. They don't mind have a system where it's more lucrative for a business to take jobs elsewhere, except for the essential jobs needed to shovel more of their products into American households.

I actually disagree with you on a certain point. Yes, politicians do look out for the big corporation more often than they do us, the average American people. However, if you look in a little deeper, whether the politicians realize it or not, they are in a way helping out the American people, specifically the middle class and poor. Since they don't impose huge taxes on imports and such it means Wal-Mart can save some money and as a result pass on some savings to its consumers by offering cheaper items for the people to purchase.

To summarize, Wal-Mart has created a scenario where they employ a larger, and larger amount of American non-unionized workers.

You make it seem like Wal-Mart is giving people a death ultimatum. Either you work with them and not have a union or you die. People know that once they are employed by Wal-Mart they become non-unionized workers. If they don't like it that way, then simply don't work for them. If they don't like it that way but still need to make a living, then suck it up for the time being until you can find a better much higher paying job.

The more people buy Wal-Mart goods, the larger demand there is. The larger demand there is, the more manufacturing Wal-Mart needs, but Wal-Mart cares about money, so they produce their goods in China, or other countries where they are barely taxed and have to pay small wages. Then when they ship over their goods, the government doesn't tax them enough, so it's cheaper to send more and more manufacturing jobs out of the country. All this does is create a scenario in which jobs like cashiers, clerks, stockers, managers etc - which would be here for small businesses or large businesses - are maintained, but everything else is done elsewhere.

I don't really care where those manufacturing jobs go to be honest. It's not like I'm working in a factory so I have no big reason to care. As long as I get my shit cheap, even if it's made in China, then I'll be a happy camper and you won't hear me complain about jobs that I'm not employed in going overseas.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Are you three comfortable with more and more manufacturing jobs, which typically pay much higher wages, are backed by unions, and often have full pensions being sent overseas? Even if Wal-Mart created jobs on a 1:1 basis, which is to say, even if for every job they shut down, they created a new one, it still wouldn't be even close to equal because the jobs that they take away have benefits, higher wages, pensions, etc. Wal-Mart employees don't make very much at all, certainly not enough to live on.

Americans are so impressed with their cheap goods that they don't realize they are shopping themselves into a hole and out of good jobs.

Do you have even the slightest understanding of how international trade works? China has an abundance of cheap, unskilled labor and America doesn't. It only makes sense that the production of manufactured products would flow to that country.

Your beef should not be with American consumers but with American executives, particularly the Walton family. The savings that come from outsourcing Wal-mart's manufacturing jobs shouldn't wholly go into the pockets of the Waltons but should instead be at least partially used for severance and re-education purposes for those who were laid-off as a result.

If you're going to come into a thread preaching liberal, ignorant dogma, at least have a clue about what you're talking about. I see that you haven't changed whatsoever since you mocked someone on here for wanting to wait until marriage to have sex.

 

[Dagger Dias]

Wal-Mart is not bad for the country. The obvious con's of the situation are that they put other stores out of business. The pro however, is that Wal-Mart makes a TON of money and offer great deals during reasonable times. If you need something at that very moment but the time is 4 AM and you don't have more than a couple of dollars on you, where are you gonna go? Wal-Mart. They know exactly what they are doing and are making so much money, which is money that the country too is making. Therefore, Wal-Mart is not bad for the country because they are helping the economy.

 

[Calderownz]

Truthfully, Wal-Mart is great.

It has it's bad aspects, but all businesses do. The fact of the matter is that they tend to be below the average price on most of it's products and they do this in a number of ways.

1. They intend to sell more and do this with a lower price. They make less profit off the top on each item because they hope to sell more of the object. It works for the company they are selling from, the comsumer and themselves in the long run.

2. The employees aren't receiving huge checks. They pay the minimum wage and they don't offer much benefits. While this seems unfair, it's not. It's legal. If someone doesn't like it, they should seek other employment. The fact of the matter is that no one forces anyone to work anywhere.

3. The make more money, so they have more money for advertisement. They've reached a level that is truly incredible. If they never spent another dollar on advertisement, we'd all still know about it and most would still use it for their goods. Incredible. Why? Because they did it by offering up legit deals on legit items.

The problem comes from people thinking that it's unfair to it's workers. Simple fact of the matter is that it's not. They know the deal going into the job and they shouldn't expect things to change just because they got hired.

You want change? Blame the government. Not the company that is simply doing everything within their legal rights to make as big of a profit as possible. You could make a case that lobbyists are trying to ensure that they CAN do these things. Fair enough. The government should still be the ones taking the blame as they're the ones taking the "bribes."

 

[Positivity]

And what is so bad about that? You put a Wal-Mart in any town and a bunch of jobs are instantly created. Believe it or not, that's actually a good thing and ends up helping out tons of people all over America and the world.

More citizens getting jobs and working is a great thing and I cannot argue with that fact. However what I can argue with is the fact that it is helping people. Is it really? Does anyone truly gun for getting accepted there? It's a last resort for people who can't get a job anywhere else. What about the people who will die without having nothing more than a cashier spot there? To me it simply shows how many people aren't investing in education. And if you're a kid or an adult? How much is minimum wage going to help you? Most people working there barely have anything when they start, nobody is benefiting and it is simple stupidness exerted by many a people with no direction in life. And really, how is it helping the world? People are being pushed over lines and very few are even having fun, so I'm guessing Earth just loves having a bunch of sad and depressed people inhabiting it right?

So with Wal-Mart coming in and creating tons of jobs for Americans, it gets people of their asses at home where they weren't doing anything worthwhile and it gets them working therefore they earn a living. Sure, you won't be earning $20 an hour but at least you'll be working and you'll be making money which allows you to provide for yourself and a family if you have one.

The thing is, it isn't usually just the average person sitting at home that decide to work there. And do you know why? Because they know they can get better, they know that there are many better places that they can lend their hand too. It is almost always men and women who have no money, no support, nothing. Those are the type of people who join Walmart, not willing to try for anything better. They don't mind if they don't have any health insurance or anything, they're so oblivious. So is taking advantage of helpless people such a good thing? Is it?

Their only interest is them having a profit margin? Good for them then, I'm glad they are smart enough to realize that as a business they're supposed to be making a profit. EVERY single business has one main goal in common and that goal is to make money from products or services offered to consumers. There's absolutely nothing with that.

But you can have both! That is what he was trying to point out and I agree. Look at what the original post said. Look at how much more people Costco insures compare to Walmart, and look at how much they pay towards health insurance compared to the retail industry. Everyone brings up how many jobs they create but we don't focus on how many people leave in their first year, seventy percent. So that means after each year, only 30% of people actually stay for longer than a year. So while they do give opportunities to some, they spit a bunch of others out too. Think about it! Everyone may have the same goal when it comes to money and making it, but it all comes back to small businesses. Many of them are much more flexible, and pay a lot more attention to their workers needs, yet they are completely hid by the size of Walmart. It may be about how much money they bring in, but the jobs that people should work for, also focus on their own employee's too.

You're right, with small businesses the manufacturing of goods usually do stay in the country. But even then, it's not like they are really making a huge difference, economically speaking, by having small businesses manufacture goods here.

You'd be surprised. People overlook them easily but as even a small manufacturer, you're going to be still bringing in at least just as much money as Walmart would ever give you, and at least you're doing something fun and it isn't under such awful conditions. With the amount of small businesses, and the amount of things that they need or want, it isn't like they would ever lose work either.

As is a bunch of products you and I purchase. If everything was made right here in America, then you and me would be paying much more for simple, everyday items. I'd rather things keep getting made in China so I can buy them cheap here.

But sometimes you need to overlook the fact that maybe you're paying a little more for things. You need to think of the many more people that are working, you need to think about the fact that whoever manufactured whatever you just bought, was happy. Happy because they're being respected, happy because they know that they are going to be bringing even more money home. Do you ever think about others? It comes down to Human Rights when talking about this sort of stuff and if I had had the chance, I would easily spend a little more if I knew that what I spent money for wasn't made by a Chinese man or woman who was payed literally nothing.

I won't disagree with mom and pop businesses needeing cashiers, managers and all of those other roles however the main difference between a mom and pop and business and a company like Wal-Mart when it comes to things like that is that Wal-Mart hires more people. In a small business that's family ran you'll only need like 1 or 2 managers. In Wal-Mart, they need a lot more managers than that since they are much bigger. So yes, small businesses need cashiers and managers too, but they don't employ anything close the amount of people Wal-Mart does.

They might not hire as many people, but they care for the ones they do a heck of a lot more. I know a friend who has parents who run a small business, and I've even worked for them for a while, and they treated me and a few others like absolute gold. They let us take breaks, fed us, everything. And we got a couple bucks more than minimum wage, but at least we weren't treated like absolute garbage. And that's what frustrates me when I do occasionally walk through the doors, I know that most of the employee's haven't seen all of their options. And it's sad, Walmart is not doing any more good than a small business by tricking the people they hire, not in the slightest.

You make it seem like Wal-Mart is giving people a death ultimatum. Either you work with them and not have a union or you die. People know that once they are employed by Wal-Mart they become non-unionized workers. If they don't like it that way, then simply don't work for them. If they don't like it that way but still need to make a living, then suck it up for the time being until you can find a better much higher paying job.

That's what you don't understand, very few do know. Most of the employee's are vulnerable, very close minded. They don't realize what they are getting themselves into, and it doesn't help that a lot of them are young. They don't understand that kind of stuff, they just want money, of course they also don't realize that what they'll be getting is minimum wage that you could probably beat as a dish washer. And one more thing, most of them can't just go out and get themselves a better job. A lot of the time, Walmart is all they can get. They're desperate, and they can't leave. They're trapped and most of them won't even have much of an education, something that just about any high paying job requires. You seriously overestimating the brainpower of most Walmart employee's.

I don't really care where those manufacturing jobs go to be honest. It's not like I'm working in a factory so I have no big reason to care. As long as I get my shit cheap, even if it's made in China, then I'll be a happy camper and you won't hear me complain about jobs that I'm not employed in going overseas.

Of course, it doesn't affect you so you could care less. Just like most people nowadays, you're very selfish when it comes to things like this. Because while you might not, there are still tons of people who do work in factories. And the people who do, are having more and more jobs dragged out from under them and sent to China. I know it's easy and you are not the only one but people need to open their eyes and learn to care about things that maybe don't involve you so much.

This was fun, I'll be waiting for a reply and I know I may have shot out some insults but it's more of a "heat of the battle thing" more than anything and I still do respect you as a poster.

 

[SalvIsWin]

And what is so bad about that? You put a Wal-Mart in any town and a bunch of jobs are instantly created. Believe it or not, that's actually a good thing and ends up helping out tons of people all over America and the world. So with Wal-Mart coming in and creating tons of jobs for Americans, it gets people of their asses at home where they weren't doing anything worthwhile and it gets them working therefore they earn a living. Sure, you won't be earning $20 an hour but at least you'll be working and you'll be making money which allows you to provide for yourself and a family if you have one.

First of all, it's a bad thing because it's looking at the issue in its simplest terms and ignores the intricacies. Wal-Mart creates its own jobs by taking away workers from other businesses via shutting them down. If there's a town with a population of 100, and all 100 work at a store A, and then store B comes and sets up a store, and 50 of the 100 workers from store A move to store B, you can say store B created 50 jobs, but that's misleading. In that scenario, store B didn't employ any additional people, it simply shuffled around the workplace. The same thing happens with Wal-Mart, it takes jobs from other businesses and adds them to itself. It would be good if it were providing jobs for people who are unemployed, or if it didn't unemploy as many people as it hires, but that's not the case.

Secondly, you don't make enough at Wal-Mart to provide for a family. If you work full-time at Wal-Mart and receive average salary, you receive far below the poverty level for a family of four. If two parents both worked at Wal-Mart, you would have an income that is around $30,000 - $35,000 a year - that's nothing, you're poor, and you have shit benefits. This is even worse when you consider the jobs that Wal-Mart takes away.

Their only interest is them having a profit margin? Good for them then, I'm glad they are smart enough to realize that as a business they're supposed to be making a profit. EVERY single business has one main goal in common and that goal is to make money from products or services offered to consumers. There's absolutely nothing with that.

When you're a large corporation that has considerable influence and power, it is a problem. Are sweatshops not a problem? Is slave labour not a problem? All of that occurs when there's a monopoly and you have to take whatever is given to you.

You're right, with small businesses the manufacturing of goods usually do stay in the country. But even then, it's not like they are really making a huge difference, economically speaking, by having small businesses manufacture goods here.

Yeah it does. Manufacturing jobs traditionally have good benefits, high wages, and pensions. It's estimated that approximately 1.5 million manufacturing jobs have been displaced elsewhere due to the growing trade deficit with China. Wal-Mart is approximately responsible for 10% of the trade deficit with China (all of this information can be found here: http://www.uscc.gov/pressreleases/2005/05_01_11pr.htm). Not a huge difference? The number of 'created' jobs you quoted earlier was 1.4 million. 1.4 million reshuffled jobs that produce wages under the poverty line for a family, and only moderately above for a family where two parent work there.

As is a bunch of products you and I purchase. If everything was made right here in America, then you and me would be paying much more for simple, everyday items. I'd rather things keep getting made in China so I can buy them cheap here.

You would pay more. However you would also be keeping high paying manufacturing jobs in your country, and you would stop the reshuffling of jobs into low-wage Wal-Mart jobs. Buying from Wal-Mart helps Wal-Mart and hurts the US economy by further contributing to the trade deficit. You're hurting your own country and its economy by buying good from Wal-Mart. You're contributing to putting people out of work so that you can buy some cheaper sneakers.

I won't disagree with mom and pop businesses needeing cashiers, managers and all of those other roles however the main difference between a mom and pop and business and a company like Wal-Mart when it comes to things like that is that Wal-Mart hires more people. In a small business that's family ran you'll only need like 1 or 2 managers. In Wal-Mart, they need a lot more managers than that since they are much bigger. So yes, small businesses need cashiers and managers too, but they don't employ anything close the amount of people Wal-Mart does.

Completely disagree. Wal-Mart doesn't put one small store out of business and then bring in ten times that amount in new jobs, it puts piles of small businesses out of work and hires.

They've moved all of their manufacturing factories elsewhere, but that's not where they get their profit from. They profit because of the stores where they sell those goods that are manufactured elsewhere. It would cost them possibly billions to really just pack up their stores and close down their stores here. Then on top of that, they'd have to pay even more to have new stores built in other countries. Wal-Mart is already established here and make billions here, there is really no reason for them to all of a sudden decide to go somewhere else just because of a raise on taxes.

I'm not saying they will move their actual stores - they move where they make goods. The North American market is huge for Wal-Mart, and they would never leave, but what they will do is move all the manufacturing (which is becoming a larger, and larger amount of these jobs that they control) out of the country because it's cheaper. They employ the minimum number of American people they can in order to successfully run their business because it's 'too expensive' for them to do anything other than that.

I actually disagree with you on a certain point. Yes, politicians do look out for the big corporation more often than they do us, the average American people. However, if you look in a little deeper, whether the politicians realize it or not, they are in a way helping out the American people, specifically the middle class and poor. Since they don't impose huge taxes on imports and such it means Wal-Mart can save some money and as a result pass on some savings to its consumers by offering cheaper items for the people to purchase.

Wal-Mart sells cheap goods, yes. You pay less than you would if Wal-Mart wasn't around. However jobs are being moved elsewhere, and the jobs that are being replaced are low wage, lower hours, and with less benefits - it's a bad situation for the American people, maybe not every American individual.

You make it seem like Wal-Mart is giving people a death ultimatum. Either you work with them and not have a union or you die. People know that once they are employed by Wal-Mart they become non-unionized workers. If they don't like it that way, then simply don't work for them. If they don't like it that way but still need to make a living, then suck it up for the time being until you can find a better much higher paying job.

That's right, don't work for them. Open up your own business - until Wal-Mart opens up in your town and puts you out of business. Go work in a factory - until Wal-Mart moves that job overseas. Wal-Mart is a growing business and is just getting larger. More and more people are affected everyday by Wal-Mart's influence and it's the individualistic, "Suck it up!" attitude that so many American's have that polticians count on and tap in to. Why help others? Wal-Mart isn't inconveniencing me (yet). Maybe Wal-Mart doesn't affect you that much, maybe you're a doctor and you make a good wage, and you save money by shopping at Wal-Mart, but those costs come at a hefty price to the American people. Until people start giving two shits about anyone other than themselves, the better the country will be.

I don't really care where those manufacturing jobs go to be honest. It's not like I'm working in a factory so I have no big reason to care. As long as I get my shit cheap, even if it's made in China, then I'll be a happy camper and you won't hear me complain about jobs that I'm not employed in going overseas.

Exactly.

------

Do you have even the slightest understanding of how international trade works? China has an abundance of cheap, unskilled labor and America doesn't. It only makes sense that the production of manufactured products would flow to that country.

I'm not saying it's not a good business strategy. Wal-Mart obviously does very well, I'm not arguing their logic if it's based entirely on profits.

Your beef should not be with American consumers but with American executives, particularly the Walton family. The savings that come from outsourcing Wal-mart's manufacturing jobs shouldn't wholly go into the pockets of the Waltons but should instead be at least partially used for severance and re-education purposes for those who were laid-off as a result.

No, I have full right to criticize a population that is perpetuating their own demise (to be theatrical). It's not like American consumers are sitting idle as this giant corporation is fucking them in the ass, they are contributing to it by making that company stronger and more influential.

Wal-Mart isn't interested in putting savings and profits into the pockets of anyone except themselves. Wal-Mart is a greedy corporation, but it's the shopping habits of their consumers that allow them to get away with what they do.

If you're going to come into a thread preaching liberal, ignorant dogma, at least have a clue about what you're talking about. I see that you haven't changed whatsoever since you mocked someone on here for wanting to wait until marriage to have sex.

You've not made one compelling point. You've told me why Wal-Mart moves jobs to China, and you've made a statement saying that I shouldn't criticize Americans for contributing to a situation that is currently fucking them over. Regardless of the fact that your last point is irrelevant to this conversation, I highly doubt I mocked anyone. I seem to recall the discussion you're referring to, and I was merely inquiring - I never mocked.

You also said I was ignorant. Hilarious.

 

[Minnesota Connection]

You can guess how I feel about Wal-Mart after one statement.

I drove passed the library that was across the street from my Grandparents the other day. The place i'd spent age 1-13 growing up around on weekends, holidays and whenever my parents were away... They were my sitters.

After I drove passed the library I stopped in what WOULD be there house.

Although, it is now the Wal-Mart "Yard." The tree me and my brothers climbed over and over, now is where the electronics department and the K-Mart I use to walk to every day, has now been bulldozed to make way for the parking lot.

Personal reasons conflict. Wal-Mart fought my grandparents for nearly two years before the city slammed them with that imminent domain bull crap. If I saw a protest outside Wal-Mart, for whatever reason, small or large, i'd grab a picket.

I despise Wal-Mart for taking over small businesses, such as the Drive-Inn in my city... Again, bulldozed to make way for a Wal-Mart. That Drive-Inn was just about the biggest thing my small town had, now its a fricking Wal-Mart.

I've had friends that have worked there... I forget what serious illness they had, but it required them to be out of action for a month and a half WITH a doctors note explaining everything. They counted on that job along with their spouse to pay their car payments, rent and essentials. What they didn't count on is that they don't care about their employees and she was canned before that 1 1/2 months was up. Perhaps it was just that one store, one bad apple or one bad manager... Still does not matter. Why?

Wal-Mart IS bad for the country... Because they throw senior citizens from their homes, close small-town businesses and treat their employees like shit. Statistics, aside.. Wal-Mart can go to hell. It can go to hell and Die! [/South Park][

 

[HBK-aholic]

I hope to God NONE of you preaching against Wal-Mart have ever shopped there, and never will. I'd be willing to bet most of you have though. I also love that maybe you guys have enough money to spend them at stores that cost more - but not everyone does. And there is nothing wrong with people wanting more value for their money, especially in these tough times.

Now, you all seem to be going on about how bad Wal-Mart is for taking some manufacturing jobs overseas. What if there was no Wal-Mart? Do you think these jobs would magically re-appear in the U.S.? Somehow, I doubt it. It'd lead to a loss of even more jobs. And stop blaming Wal-Mart for all these stores closing down - there is an economic recession going on! Many would have closed down regardless.

More citizens getting jobs and working is a great thing and I cannot argue with that fact. However what I can argue with is the fact that it is helping people. Is it really? Does anyone truly gun for getting accepted there? It's a last resort for people who can't get a job anywhere else. What about the people who will die without having nothing more than a cashier spot there? To me it simply shows how many people aren't investing in education. And if you're a kid or an adult? How much is minimum wage going to help you? Most people working there barely have anything when they start, nobody is benefiting and it is simple stupidness exerted by many a people with no direction in life. And really, how is it helping the world? People are being pushed over lines and very few are even having fun, so I'm guessing Earth just loves having a bunch of sad and depressed people inhabiting it right?



The thing is, it isn't usually just the average person sitting at home that decide to work there. And do you know why? Because they know they can get better, they know that there are many better places that they can lend their hand too. It is almost always men and women who have no money, no support, nothing. Those are the type of people who join Walmart, not willing to try for anything better. They don't mind if they don't have any health insurance or anything, they're so oblivious. So is taking advantage of helpless people such a good thing? Is it?



But you can have both! That is what he was trying to point out and I agree. Look at what the original post said. Look at how much more people Costco insures compare to Walmart, and look at how much they pay towards health insurance compared to the retail industry. Everyone brings up how many jobs they create but we don't focus on how many people leave in their first year, seventy percent. So that means after each year, only 30% of people actually stay for longer than a year. So while they do give opportunities to some, they spit a bunch of others out too. Think about it! Everyone may have the same goal when it comes to money and making it, but it all comes back to small businesses. Many of them are much more flexible, and pay a lot more attention to their workers needs, yet they are completely hid by the size of Walmart. It may be about how much money they bring in, but the jobs that people should work for, also focus on their own employee's too.



You'd be surprised. People overlook them easily but as even a small manufacturer, you're going to be still bringing in at least just as much money as Walmart would ever give you, and at least you're doing something fun and it isn't under such awful conditions. With the amount of small businesses, and the amount of things that they need or want, it isn't like they would ever lose work either.



But sometimes you need to overlook the fact that maybe you're paying a little more for things. You need to think of the many more people that are working, you need to think about the fact that whoever manufactured whatever you just bought, was happy. Happy because they're being respected, happy because they know that they are going to be bringing even more money home. Do you ever think about others? It comes down to Human Rights when talking about this sort of stuff and if I had had the chance, I would easily spend a little more if I knew that what I spent money for wasn't made by a Chinese man or woman who was payed literally nothing.



They might not hire as many people, but they care for the ones they do a heck of a lot more. I know a friend who has parents who run a small business, and I've even worked for them for a while, and they treated me and a few others like absolute gold. They let us take breaks, fed us, everything. And we got a couple bucks more than minimum wage, but at least we weren't treated like absolute garbage. And that's what frustrates me when I do occasionally walk through the doors, I know that most of the employee's haven't seen all of their options. And it's sad, Walmart is not doing any more good than a small business by tricking the people they hire, not in the slightest.



That's what you don't understand, very few do know. Most of the employee's are vulnerable, very close minded. They don't realize what they are getting themselves into, and it doesn't help that a lot of them are young. They don't understand that kind of stuff, they just want money, of course they also don't realize that what they'll be getting is minimum wage that you could probably beat as a dish washer. And one more thing, most of them can't just go out and get themselves a better job. A lot of the time, Walmart is all they can get. They're desperate, and they can't leave. They're trapped and most of them won't even have much of an education, something that just about any high paying job requires. You seriously overestimating the brainpower of most Walmart employee's.

Stop treating people who work at these big stores like idiots! They're not all ******ed idiots who can't think for themselves. And they should be applauded for putting up with arrogant people like you, and actually attempting to get a job regardless of what it is as opposed to sitting down all day doing fuck all like so many people seem to do nowadays.

And as someone who works in retail for close to minimum wage I assure you it helps a lot more than you'd like to argue. Is it ideal? No, but it's a start in life, gives people experience, makes them work hard, and gives them some amount of money, whether you could use that amount to fund your lifestyle or not.

 

[SalvIsWin]

I hope to God NONE of you preaching against Wal-Mart have ever shopped there, and never will. I'd be willing to bet most of you have though. I also love that maybe you guys have enough money to spend them at stores that cost more - but not everyone does. And there is nothing wrong with people wanting more value for their money, especially in these tough times.

Now, you all seem to be going on about how bad Wal-Mart is for taking some manufacturing jobs overseas. What if there was no Wal-Mart? Do you think these jobs would magically re-appear in the U.S.? Somehow, I doubt it. It'd lead to a loss of even more jobs. And stop blaming Wal-Mart for all these stores closing down - there is an economic recession going on! Many would have closed down regardless.

I boycott Wal-Mart to be honest.

In regards to your point though that people don't have a lot of money, and thus they have to shop for low prices - Wal-Mart created that situation! Wal-Mart pays it's employees very little, so where are you going to shop? Somewhere where prices are cheap - Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart ships good paying industry jobs overseas where they can pay slave-labour prices, so people lose their good jobs, have to work somewhere else that isn't as good. Those people now have less money, they need to save money, where do they shop? Wal-Mart.

What has contributed to the shitty American economy? The trade deficit with China. Who is responsible for 10% of that trade deficit? Wal-Mart. You're describing a situation where you're relying on Wal-Mart to help you in a situation that Wal-Mart put you in. Now obviously I am exaggerating some of my points, I'm not suggesting that Wal-Mart takes away all jobs, caused the terrible US (and thus, world) economy or anything like that - but it has contributed and that's the point.

In regards to what you said about shipping jobs overseas - no, those jobs wouldn't just re-appear, but they would start to re-appear. Small businesses can't import goods from China, they don't sell that much to begin with to make it worthwhile, or have the money to open up industry - only big corporations can do that. That's why when small businesses are thriving, the economy thrives, because all the jobs stay here. If everyone stopped shopping at Wal-Mart tomorrow, small businesses would begin to thrive and re-appear, and that means there would be demand for domestic goods, which would create good jobs.

 

[SavageTaker]

So it looks like I now have two people to debate me. I'll reply to Salv first since I was debating with him first and I'll reply later to Positivity.

First of all, it's a bad thing because it's looking at the issue in its simplest terms and ignores the intricacies. Wal-Mart creates its own jobs by taking away workers from other businesses via shutting them down. If there's a town with a population of 100, and all 100 work at a store A, and then store B comes and sets up a store, and 50 of the 100 workers from store A move to store B, you can say store B created 50 jobs, but that's misleading. In that scenario, store B didn't employ any additional people, it simply shuffled around the workplace. The same thing happens with Wal-Mart, it takes jobs from other businesses and adds them to itself. It would be good if it were providing jobs for people who are unemployed, or if it didn't unemploy as many people as it hires, but that's not the case.

Yes, they do hire people that worked in other businesses therefore taking away people from other jobs. That's still considered creating jobs because they are still hiring all sorts of people, not just people that previously worked elsewhere but also job opportunities are created for unemployed people too.

Secondly, you don't make enough at Wal-Mart to provide for a family. If you work full-time at Wal-Mart and receive average salary, you receive far below the poverty level for a family of four. If two parents both worked at Wal-Mart, you would have an income that is around $30,000 - $35,000 a year - that's nothing, you're poor, and you have shit benefits. This is even worse when you consider the jobs that Wal-Mart takes away.

I can agree to disagree with you here because a lot of it comes down to the way people live. If you want to have a luxurious lifestyle then clearly you're not going to survive from a paycheck from Wal-Mart. But if you really just focus on the essential needs it's possible to survive.

Also, you're completely wrong about people being poor just because people make between $30,000 - $35,000. Together my mother and gradma make about 45 grand a year sometimes a little more, so it's very close to what two parents make in a Wal-Mart. Yet we still survive. We live in a nice neighborhood, own a car, have nice clothes, have cable, e.t.c. and still have money left over. Like I said, it's possible to survive it all depends on where you live and how you live.

When you're a large corporation that has considerable influence and power, it is a problem. Are sweatshops not a problem? Is slave labour not a problem? All of that occurs when there's a monopoly and you have to take whatever is given to you.

I never claimed those things aren't a problem, but you brought up the point that they only worry about their profit margin and that's alright with me because they are a business and their main goal should be to make a profit.

Yeah it does. Manufacturing jobs traditionally have good benefits, high wages, and pensions. It's estimated that approximately 1.5 million manufacturing jobs have been displaced elsewhere due to the growing trade deficit with China. Wal-Mart is approximately responsible for 10% of the trade deficit with China (all of this information can be found here: http://www.uscc.gov/pressreleases/2005/05_01_11pr.htm). Not a huge difference? The number of 'created' jobs you quoted earlier was 1.4 million. 1.4 million reshuffled jobs that produce wages under the poverty line for a family, and only moderately above for a family where two parent work there.

I don't care about what manufacturing jobs pay and their benefits, I don't work in that industry. But even then, those 1.5 million jobs help make my life easier because I don't have to worry about paying much more for every day items. What fucking type of consumer are you if you'd prefer paying $10 for something made here when you can just pay like $2 for the exact same fucking thing only difference is it was made elsewehere.

Also, where exactly is your prove that every single one of those 1.4 million jobs I quoted earlier are “reshuffled” jobs.

You would pay more. However you would also be keeping high paying manufacturing jobs in your country, and you would stop the reshuffling of jobs into low-wage Wal-Mart jobs. Buying from Wal-Mart helps Wal-Mart and hurts the US economy by further contributing to the trade deficit. You're hurting your own country and its economy by buying good from Wal-Mart. You're contributing to putting people out of work so that you can buy some cheaper sneakers.

I honestly don't care if I'm hurting my country because I'm sure me alone buying goods from Wal-Mart doesn't make a huge difference at the end of the day. Sure when you add everyone who shops there it might end up hurting, but a lot of those people have the same mindset as me: Who gives a fuck? It's cheaper at Wal-Mart so I'll just buy it there. Like I said earlier, what type of consumer are you if you'd prefer paying much more for something that you can get cheaper if it's simply made in China.

Completely disagree. Wal-Mart doesn't put one small store out of business and then bring in ten times that amount in new jobs, it puts piles of small businesses out of work and hires.

It depends on where it's located, but even then it usually does bring in more than enough jobs to make up for the ones lost and they still have extra ones for the unemployed people.

I'm not saying they will move their actual stores - they move where they make goods. The North American market is huge for Wal-Mart, and they would never leave, but what they will do is move all the manufacturing (which is becoming a larger, and larger amount of these jobs that they control) out of the country because it's cheaper. They employ the minimum number of American people they can in order to successfully run their business because it's 'too expensive' for them to do anything other than that.

Not really. They employ about 2.1 million people worldwide, 1.4 million of those being right here in America. So even if they do move all of their manufacturing elsewhere, there majority of the jobs they provide are still here.

Wal-Mart sells cheap goods, yes. You pay less than you would if Wal-Mart wasn't around. However jobs are being moved elsewhere, and the jobs that are being replaced are low wage, lower hours, and with less benefits - it's a bad situation for the American people, maybe not every American individual.

How many times do I have to say it, even though those jobs are being move elsewhere the majority of them are still here so there's no problem with that. If we don't have those manufacturing jobs elsewhere and instead put them right here in our homeland then a lot more people suffer than they benefit because goods would raise in price dramatically.

That's right, don't work for them. Open up your own business - until Wal-Mart opens up in your town and puts you out of business. Go work in a factory - until Wal-Mart moves that job overseas. Wal-Mart is a growing business and is just getting larger. More and more people are affected everyday by Wal-Mart's influence and it's the individualistic, "Suck it up!" attitude that so many American's have that polticians count on and tap in to. Why help others? Wal-Mart isn't inconveniencing me (yet). Maybe Wal-Mart doesn't affect you that much, maybe you're a doctor and you make a good wage, and you save money by shopping at Wal-Mart, but those costs come at a hefty price to the American people. Until people start giving two shits about anyone other than themselves, the better the country will be.

The reason those businesses are put out of business is because they refuse to maintain competitive prices, which I can't blame 'em for since they too need to make a profit. But why should I go to a small business and pay for something I can get cheaper at Wal-Mart? Please give me a good reason aside from the “you're hurting your country if you don't” one because that one is bullcrap.

Exactly.

Exactly what?

 

[HBK-aholic]

I boycott Wal-Mart to be honest.

In regards to your point though that people don't have a lot of money, and thus they have to shop for low prices - Wal-Mart created that situation! Wal-Mart pays it's employees very little, so where are you going to shop? Somewhere where prices are cheap - Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart ships good paying industry jobs overseas where they can pay slave-labour prices, so people lose their good jobs, have to work somewhere else that isn't as good. Those people now have less money, they need to save money, where do they shop? Wal-Mart.

What has contributed to the shitty American economy? The trade deficit with China. Who is responsible for 10% of that trade deficit? Wal-Mart. You're describing a situation where you're relying on Wal-Mart to help you in a situation that Wal-Mart put you in. Now obviously I am exaggerating some of my points, I'm not suggesting that Wal-Mart takes away all jobs, caused the terrible US (and thus, world) economy or anything like that - but it has contributed and that's the point.

In regards to what you said about shipping jobs overseas - no, those jobs wouldn't just re-appear, but they would start to re-appear. Small businesses can't import goods from China, they don't sell that much to begin with to make it worthwhile, or have the money to open up industry - only big corporations can do that. That's why when small businesses are thriving, the economy thrives, because all the jobs stay here. If everyone stopped shopping at Wal-Mart tomorrow, small businesses would begin to thrive and re-appear, and that means there would be demand for domestic goods, which would create good jobs.

Oh please, Wal-Mart is NOT the only company to pay a small wage to their employees so stop acting like it is. It's currently very obvious you're going to blame them for everything you can. I mean, Wal-Mart CREATING the situation of people not being well-off? That's pathetic. Many people weren't well off WELL before Wal-Mart was ever created and will continue to be if/when Wal-Mart ends.

Also, I'm not going to attempt to get into the whole economy and deficit business, because there are politicians and economists with much more experience and information than us who still can not work out how things got so bad and how to fix the problems the world has economically - so we don't have a chance regardless of how sure you seem about Wal-Mart's part in this. What I will say is that you seem to believe closing down Wal-Mart would be a big step in making things better - yet I don't see how losing millions of jobs - directly and indirectly - will help the economy. There will never be as many local stores employing as many people as Wal-Mart currently do, and certainly not in the forseeable future.

I will agree Wal-Mart's working conditions aren't great, but unless the government increases minimum wage, and makes certain benefits compulsary, and healthcare a national, free for all service, it's just one of those things. People for the most part should feel lucky to have a job regardless of what it is.

 

[Kenny Powers]

I don't have time to get into a huge debate, but I'll make it short and sweet. I don't know where the myth came in that Wal-Mart is so cheap. There are lots of smaller stores and even stores like Target that have a decent selection and see merchandise as cheap or cheaper then Wal-Mart. I will go to Wal-Mart if possible since there aren't many stores where I live, but my store is so over populated with customers.

There are a few employees trying to handled hundreds of people and it is impossible for employees to work all departments. I worked as a cashier and helped out in many departments for 2 years and only got a 50 cent pay raise. I didn't have a problem with my coworkers, but anyone that has worked there knows its a demanding job. It is really stressful for everyone involved considering how demanding it is to take care of so many customers.

I don't think it is bad for the United States or any other country. Wal-Mart isn't the only company that uses cheap labor overseas to make products. People can boycott them all they want to, but Wal-Mart will still be built. The job sucks, but that is the only way a lot of people can try to make a living.

 

[Hyorinmaru]

That's what you don't understand, very few do know. Most of the employee's are vulnerable, very close minded. They don't realize what they are getting themselves into, and it doesn't help that a lot of them are young. They don't understand that kind of stuff, they just want money, of course they also don't realize that what they'll be getting is minimum wage that you could probably beat as a dish washer. And one more thing, most of them can't just go out and get themselves a better job. A lot of the time, Walmart is all they can get. They're desperate, and they can't leave. They're trapped and most of them won't even have much of an education, something that just about any high paying job requires. You seriously overestimating the brainpower of most Walmart employees

thanks for calling me a ****** asshole. I'll have you know ALL of the people I work are just trying to survive with any job they can get in this shit economy. Some of them are going to college, most others are in the process of looking for another job that they'll like more. This one guy I know who works in the meat department has worked in the resaurant industry as either a manager or owner since the late 70s and just wants a job where he isn't in charge anymore. There are a few couples working with me that have a kid or 2 to support and between the 2 of them make enough money at Walmart to do it.

Me personally I'm a college graduate with a AS degree in Restaurant Management. Would I rather have a job where I can use the degree I spent 3 years getting? Yes i would but if any facet of American Industry has suffered because of the reccesion it would be the Restaurant industry. Not to many people want to spend what little disposable income they have on going out to eat all the time when buying groceries (at Walmart most of the time) and making food at home is easier and more than likely cheaper in the long run.


Any other assinine comments I can call you out on? I would like to up my post count a bunch tonight.

A couple more things I just remembered. There is both a Pharmacist & Optometrist working in the Pharmacy & Vision Center respectivly. I'm beging you to tell me how they don't have much in the way of education.

 

[SalvIsWin]

Oh please, Wal-Mart is NOT the only company to pay a small wage to their employees so stop acting like it is.

I know this, which is why I said...

Now obviously I am exaggerating some of my points, I'm not suggesting that Wal-Mart takes away all jobs, caused the terrible US (and thus, world) economy or anything like that - but it has contributed and that's the point.

I mean, Wal-Mart CREATING the situation of people not being well-off? That's pathetic. Many people weren't well off WELL before Wal-Mart was ever created and will continue to be if/when Wal-Mart ends.

No, contributed to the situation. I'm aware that poor people existed before Wal-Mart.

Also, I'm not going to attempt to get into the whole economy and deficit business, because there are politicians and economists with much more experience and information than us who still can not work out how things got so bad and how to fix the problems the world has economically - so we don't have a chance regardless of how sure you seem about Wal-Mart's part in this. What I will say is that you seem to believe closing down Wal-Mart would be a big step in making things better - yet I don't see how losing millions of jobs - directly and indirectly - will help the economy. There will never be as many local stores employing as many people as Wal-Mart currently do, and certainly not in the forseeable future.

Economists know Wal-Mart's contribution to things like the trade deficit. The link I gave with the data was from the US governments US-China economy and security report. Politicians also know everything I am describing, but like I said, there are political interest groups that influence legislation. It's the exact same thing as what happens with oil companies. Legislation isn't passed that would tax these companies or have them more accountable (read: lower profits) because that isn't in the interest of the politicians or the oil companies as long as the public remains ignorant.

People need jobs. If there was no Wal-Mart to employ the people currently employed by them and there were small businesses instead, that's where they would go. Are you suggesting that before Wal-Mart came along there was a large contingency of people just sitting around with no work because there wasn't a super-store to employ them?

One thing you are right about is that nothing will be done in the forseeable future because of the nature of public opinion. Most people are ignorant and there's only ever change when people become truly fed up, and then there's a social movement.

I will agree Wal-Mart's working conditions aren't great, but unless the government increases minimum wage, and makes certain benefits compulsary, and healthcare a national, free for all service, it's just one of those things. People for the most part should feel lucky to have a job regardless of what it is.

The government wouldn't do that because Wal-Mart interest groups fund campaigns and help politicians get elected in a, 'you scratch my back, i'll scratch yours' situation. Also, with the public happy to have Wal-Mart, regardless or whether or not they should be, there's no incentive for a politician to try to make a difference because the people don't want it.

--------

Yes, they do hire people that worked in other businesses therefore taking away people from other jobs. That's still considered creating jobs because they are still hiring all sorts of people, not just people that previously worked elsewhere but also job opportunities are created for unemployed people too.

Small businesses do the exact same thing. I don't feel you've made a compelling argument that Wal-Mart creates jobs that wouldn't exist because of small businesses.

I can agree to disagree with you here because a lot of it comes down to the way people live. If you want to have a luxurious lifestyle then clearly you're not going to survive from a paycheck from Wal-Mart. But if you really just focus on the essential needs it's possible to survive.

Also, you're completely wrong about people being poor just because people make between $30,000 - $35,000. Together my mother and gradma make about 45 grand a year sometimes a little more, so it's very close to what two parents make in a Wal-Mart. Yet we still survive. We live in a nice neighborhood, own a car, have nice clothes, have cable, e.t.c. and still have money left over. Like I said, it's possible to survive it all depends on where you live and how you live.

Yes, I agree that it depends on how you live, but my point was actually more than jobs that paid much higher are being replaced with ones that only pay $15,000 - $19,000 a year. I know people can survive on Wal-Mart wages, but it's a shittier living compared to industry jobs, which are the ones that Wal-Mart sends elsewhere, where they don't have to pay those high wages with benefits.

Also, $45,000 'or more' is substantially higher than $30 - 35,000.

I never claimed those things aren't a problem, but you brought up the point that they only worry about their profit margin and that's alright with me because they are a business and their main goal should be to make a profit.

Yes, but when you have a company that wields the influence and power like Wal-Mart does, the things that I mentioned become realities. Slave labour for example is contributed to by large companies who have the funds to set up industry in other countries where they have access to people who have no other options. Small businesses couldn't do that even if they wanted to.

I don't care about what manufacturing jobs pay and their benefits, I don't work in that industry. But even then, those 1.5 million jobs help make my life easier because I don't have to worry about paying much more for every day items. What fucking type of consumer are you if you'd prefer paying $10 for something made here when you can just pay like $2 for the exact same fucking thing only difference is it was made elsewehere.

Also, where exactly is your prove that every single one of those 1.4 million jobs I quoted earlier are “reshuffled” jobs.

All of this comes back to affect you. It doesn't matter if you're in the industry of making goods or not, trade deficits with China, which is largely contributed to because of Wal-Mart moving all the American jobs over there and then importing the goods at low, low prices causes a shitty economy, which fucks you over as an American.

I don't have proof that every job is reshuffled, and I wouldn't even make the case that every single job was, but simple logic can deduct that those 1.4 million jobs are not all created jobs, and that a very large proportion (if not all) are jobs that would exist regardless of Wal-Mart.

I honestly don't care if I'm hurting my country because I'm sure me alone buying goods from Wal-Mart doesn't make a huge difference at the end of the day. Sure when you add everyone who shops there it might end up hurting, but a lot of those people have the same mindset as me: Who gives a fuck? It's cheaper at Wal-Mart so I'll just buy it there. Like I said earlier, what type of consumer are you if you'd prefer paying much more for something that you can get cheaper if it's simply made in China.

The logic that, "My personal shopping doesn't make a difference" is such a tremendous fallacy. You even pointed out the flaw in your thinking, which is that if everyone thought that way, it makes a difference. Who should give a fuck is you, because you're an American and your countries trade deficit is increasing in large part to Wal-Mart, good jobs are being shipped elsewhere, your economy is shit right now, and Wal-Mart is contributing to all of it.

It's not a case of, "This shoes are $40.00, and these are $15.00", which is my entire point. There's so much more going on here and it's costing you a lot more than twenty five fucking dollars.

Not really. They employ about 2.1 million people worldwide, 1.4 million of those being right here in America. So even if they do move all of their manufacturing elsewhere, there majority of the jobs they provide are still here.

I don't think you understand what is meant when I say they ship jobs overseas. That 2.1 million are people who work in Wal-Mart stores, the place where goods are sold. Wal-Mart doesn't own the factories that make the good that they sell, other companies do. Wal-Mart purchases it's goods from places other than the United States, thereby moving the demand away from the USA and towards wherever they buy their goods from. If they purchased the goods that American companies made, they would be creating jobs here, because there is demand, but if they buy exclusively from China for example, there's no more jobs here that make those goods because Wal-Mart doesn't buy from here.

The point is that the 2.1 are all Wal-Mart store employees. The number of manufacturing jobs wouldn't be on a Wal-Mart website because they aren't Wal-Mart employees.

How many times do I have to say it, even though those jobs are being move elsewhere the majority of them are still here so there's no problem with that. If we don't have those manufacturing jobs elsewhere and instead put them right here in our homeland then a lot more people suffer than they benefit because goods would raise in price dramatically.

I explain above that the numbers don't also explain what you think they explain. Those numbers refer to Wal-Mart store employees and that is it. Wal-Mart doesn't employ the slave labour that make their goods, other companies do.

You would pay more, yes, but the economy would be better, the trade deficit with China would be lower, and there would be more jobs here for everyone. It would be better than it would be worse.

The reason those businesses are put out of business is because they refuse to maintain competitive prices, which I can't blame 'em for since they too need to make a profit. But why should I go to a small business and pay for something I can get cheaper at Wal-Mart? Please give me a good reason aside from the “you're hurting your country if you don't” one because that one is bullcrap.

OK. You're hurting your country, which also hurts you even if you don't immediately realize it. Better?