Is TNA's problem simply that there are no more wrestling fans out there?

[Bobby B]

Ok, just my thoughts on this. But does anyone think that the reason TNA aren't getting many more viewers is that there is no more new wrestling fans to be had (ie the only people left are the ones who watch WWE)?

It strikes me that there isn't a large demographic of people that like wrestling, but don't watch either TNA or WWE. And therefore the people that TNA could get either already watch the show, or watch WWE. And therefore the only people left for them to get already watch the opposition product?

Sorry if that was confusing, it sounds right in my head

 

[Optimist Prime]

Ok, just my thoughts on this. But does anyone think that the reason TNA aren't getting many more viewers is that there is no more new wrestling fans to be had (ie the only people left are the ones who watch WWE)?

It strikes me that there isn't a large demographic of people that like wrestling, but don't watch either TNA or WWE. And therefore the people that TNA could get either already watch the show, or watch WWE. And therefore the only people left for them to get already watch the opposition product?

Sorry if that was confusing, it sounds right in my head

I understand you loud and clear and I agree to a certain extent. It's hard to categorize "new" wrestling fans because young kids who have parents who grew up watching the WWE where the kids would then follow suit - could be technically called a "new" wrestling fan...but they were heavily impressionable and odds are they didn't make their decision on their own.

The lack of competition caused a lot of former wrestling fans to either stay and stick with WWE or just outright stop watching it all together. I know the majority of my friends just stopped watching it after the decline of WCW happened. Because instead of your choices being WCW or WWE...you have WWE or you just simply didn't watch wrestling anymore. That was it. And those people find it hard to get back into it...they don't understand the storylines...they don't recognize the wrestlers anymore...the ones they do recognize look like their parents or grandparents now...which in turn makes them feel old. So they just continue not to watch it. This isn't everyone...but a lot for the most part.

And everything has been done in the wrestling business that can be done on a cable television station. It's almost impossible to one up the glory years of the past. Nothing is new anymore so nobody feels they're really missing much either.

That being said, it's difficult to be out of the game or having never been in the game...and get into something that's been done before and isn't really anything new. There's really nothing there to grab the viewer. Especially when the majority of the newer wrestlers lack the personality that is suppose to grab the viewer in the first place.

 

[Schizophrenic]

I think (as it's been stated before) TNA's problem are internal. They need to relyon their young guns and bring up some new and exciting concepts and stories and not rely on things that have been around for years. I am a huge TNA fan but I will admit that TNA's creative team or neither creative or originl right now. I'm starting to see a change in the way they are doing things but I don't think it's a matter of no more fans. If TNA was providing a great alternative and a fantastic show week in and week out with grat stories and fantastic matches their ratings would be at the level (or better) than WWE facoring in the TNA fans, WWE fans, ROH fans, indie fans ect.

 

[jbarilla]

This is an interesting question. It could very well be a supportable theory. Entertainment in general has become so diversified, there just really may not be that many people interested in the core product of professional wrestling. I think UFC and MMA altogether is actually one of the biggest reasons your theory may be true. I think TNA attempting to reach out to that crowd with Bobby Lashley was a smart move but poorly managed. WWE had to reach out to boxing's biggest mainstream name to get Stone Cold over with the mainstream. Lesnar's success in UFC has me intrigued as to whether or not WWE has it in them to pull the trigger on a deal to work a storyline with a popular pure MMA guy. With the proper storyline, it can be something that may draw some attention from the MMA audience.

 

[info62]

I think I get what you are saying. WWE turned a lot of people off with the way they started changing their programming, I know some people will defend PG to the death but the fact is that some other people just don't enjoy the way WWE is now. And then after they gave up on WWE they didn't bother seeing if any other promotion out there was any better, they just quit watching wrestling altogether.

That would have happened to me as well if I hadn't found out about TNA in 2007. I already preferred it to WWE by 2009. If I never discovered TNA back then I wouldn't be watching wrestling anymore.

So all we have left are the people already watching TNA, WWExclusive fans (ha I just made that up), and the people who refuse to watch any wrestling that is on US television. The people who only watch indy feds / foreign wrestling will not ever be won over, and it will take something big for a WWExclusive fan to give TNA a chance.For example, once WWE fired over half the guys I watched the damn program for, I finally started to watch TNA with an open mind and I was surprised at how much I ended up enjoying it. Some people are just stubborn like that I guess.

Though this isn't to say that this is the ONLY problem TNA has. A few of their storylines are kind of a mess right now IMO and I'm not trying to defend that with my post.

 

[Gansher]

There's nothing stopping people from watching both shows on television, especially now that TNA are back to Thursdays. I think that TNA's problems are more complicated than this. Now the following points are simply my opinion on what might be hurting the product so feel free to disagree

1) TNA had a big advantage going in with a superior tag team and women's division. The tag division is still dominant and TNA are destroying WWE here. However Knockout division has gone to a really bad state mainly because I believe they push the wrong knockouts. I believe Hamada should have been champ already. But really fans these days don't really care about tag teams I believe so they prefer to turn their attention to singles action. So this brings me to my 2nd point.

2) TNA has no solid mid card. I don't even know what the Global Title means and what it is there to accomplish. It is currently being held by a main-eventer who shouldn't be holding it. Meanwhile I also consider X division to have been centered way too much around Williams and Kendrick the last months and the others have not had time to shine really. This brings about yet another point.

3) TNA needs to rearrange its roster cause it's in a very confusing state. They need to establish a valid mid card as mentioned before otherwise they won't be able to push enough guys. Remember TNA has a lot of veterans and they need to push some guys up there before it's too late. WWE are already ahead of the game here. Another aspect here is the focus on ECW which is also throwing away another PPV for the young guns.

4) Finally TNA's stroylines are way too confusing. There is way too much drama then is needed sometimes. Impact usually makes my head hurt.

I think it is these factors mostly. Remember people like comparing TNA and WWE and when you do that, you'll be watching TNA for some Tag action but nothing more.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

No, thats not true at all (at least from what I've seen).

I know alot of people who USED to watch wrestling and don't anymore and also a couple who started watching it recently (most are casual, but a few are/were hardcore fans) and the #1 reason I'm given isn't because there aren't new fans (or former fans for that matter) to be had its just that they don't like what wrestling has become over the last while. Now the funny thing about these people is when something garners their interest (most recent example was when Bret Hart came back), they will turn on wrestling to see whats going on, which tells me that the fans are in fact out there, they just don't have enough reason to watch wrestling.

Now I'm not going to sit here and badmouth TNA and WWE because I understand the need for change (especially in WWE's case) but the fact of the matter is wrestling isn't nearly as intriguing as it was about 12-13 years ago. Most of these fans who watched in the late 90's early 2000's aren't watching anymore, but its not because they don't like wrestling anymore, its just because wrestling doesn't offer them anything.

A hardcore fan like myself judges wrestling on many different levels (in ring work, promo work, storylines, building of characters, main event, mid card, lower card, backstage, ect.), but your average fan judges it on 1 thing and 1 thing only "am I being entertained?". People found it entertaining to watch the nWo, people found it entertaining to watch Austin/McMahon, but your average fan is not entertained by the recent Nexus angle. Why? because they've seen it all before, and there is nothing about Nexus that is especially intriguing to the average fan. Even though the Nexus angle is being done very well IMO, your average fan sees it as nWo version 2, they don't care about building the roster or the future of the WWE, they just wan't to be entertained plain and simple.

If TNA finds a diamond in the rough and finds something the fans want to see, they will come, same goes with WWE, if they find that next Austin or Rock, there will be more fans to watch the product and the ratings will increase. Over the last 7-8 years ratings have been pretty stagnant with no HUGE jumps or drops in ratings (I'm talking about 1.0 jump in a week or something fairly significant), which shows the average fan isn't watching wrestling because they are more entertained by a show like the Big Bang Theory, but if either organization gives these people a storyline or a character they want to see, they will come back and they will stay until they get bored.

 

[rondiesel2005]

wrestling fans are always confusing nowadays.. see look at back in the 90s everybody was on Hogan's brand, now going into the future looking at TNA it seems like the problem is wrestlers are having trouble trying to get the fans attention. You know how WWE you have the kids looking up to Cena, TNA who are the fans looking up to??? I also think some people just gave up wrestling around when WCW went out of business and some find other wrestling company to watch, then you got TNA some of the fans liked it some of them don't. Also those who liked TNA for a while, they could just simply started not to like the company because maybe no sense of direction of where the company is going it it just plain boring. I think people just grew out on wrestling.

I have some friends that i know who use to watch wrestling, but they say they rather play the video game rather than watching it on tv because they are tired of seeing the same people going against each other every week so instead they play the wrestling game... Put it this way some of the fans just find wrestling boring they just simply grew out of it

 

[AttitudeAJM]

Hardcore wrestling fans are a lot smaller than you may think. WWF/WWE became as big as they are by appealing to casual fans. Many times casual fans will catch the easier wrestling show to watch. Many times they won't even consider watching another show strictly because they feel that they don't have the time. If there was a bigger hardcore community than I doubt we'd be talking about TNA as competition to the WWE. Instead we'd be talking about ROH as serious competition.

 

[onemandynasty08]

I think that wrestling goes through continuous cycles and right now wrestling is in the lower part of that cycle. There is a point in time when some wrestling fans come to the point where they feel that they have outgrown it. As I was growing up, some of the people who liked wrestling as kids began to stop watching as they grew older. Now with WWE's PG rating, they are targeting kids again. Soon these kids will grow up, and they will began demanding another attitude like era. Alot of the kids who outgrew wrestling now have UFC. A big reason that fans stopped watching wrestling, was because they see it as fake. Even though wrestlers really do get hurt, they see it all a show and they also don't view it as a sport. I personally enjoyed wrestling more before I began following the internet. I enjoyed it more when I didn't know about all the politics backstage, the spoilers, who's backstage at this taping, and the list continues. UFC is viewed as real, with alot of aspects of wrestling. The fans are out there, they just have to find a way to draw them in.

Even though alot of people despise seeing celebrities appear on wrestling, it does work if used correctly. The Donald Trump edition of RAW got the show one of it's highest ratings in years. Even though they might not be some of the best moments in wrestling, they are memorable. I can probably put money that if they put someone like Lebron James in a wrestling match and advertised it correctly that people would watch just to see that match.

 

[MB1025]

I think it is a combination of a few things. For the record I still stand by my point that for every confusing thing or bad booking decision that is made by TNA I can turn around and match you with something in WWE. I think there are a lot of fans who just refuse to watch TNA. I go back to what I said about TNA and WWE making all the same mistakes every week and the only thing that separates them is money and longevity. It really is a simple formula that just hasn't stuck with fans. The more you watch BOTH products the better the wrestling industry will be. Since WCW went under there was non stop complaining about needing more competition because WWE got stale. Well people need to understand that if TNA goes under just because of people hating or not watching because it is the cool thing to do then it will only take longer for the WWE's product to get better and the monopoly will continue. So those same fans who have wanted another company to come along since 2001 are the same fans who just flat out refuse to watch TNA. Now I understand those who just don't like it and that is cool, but for every one of those fans there are 5 more who don't watch it because it is fun to hate TNA and that doesn't help the business you are supposed to be a fan of. I also think it has to do with just a lack of wrestling fans in general. Many people have moved on to MMA and wrestling just isn't cool anymore. I feel like we are stuck in 1993 and the Lex Express is on a non stop tour.

 

[LokiCobain]

I've posted to this point literally thousands of times on here and never get responses, so kudos for starting the thread.

People use ratings as a way of determining TNA's success, but ratings IN GENERAL have decreased dramatically for WWE. They're not pulling in the 3.5+ they were in the 90s. PPV sales aren't what they were back then either. Wrestling has been given a negative stigma over the past decade.

Need proof? Linda McMahon's senatorial campaign. It's the only thing ever addressed in her commercials. The only thing people criticize her for is her affiliation with WWE. So what do they say? It's a soap opera. That's not a compliment.

This, plus the directing the product towards kids, means that as the fans grow up, they stop being fans. They "grew out of it". Long term, this is going to KILL WWE. They may be reaping the benefits now, but as someone mentioned above, the parents of the kids now were fans their whole lives. They grew up with Hogan running wild and the Attitude Era. What happens when the next generation of parents go, "oh wrestling, that kid thing?" They won't have the passion or even the nostalgia. I see it now with guys my age (25), they're embarrassed that they know anything at all about wrestling.

WWE had a monopoly for so long that the product suffered. TNA tried restoring that product, but it'll never compare to what it was 10+ years ago. WWE now can't even compare to WCW 10+ years ago. It's a product that is losing appeal.

To revitalize the product, there needs to be a company that doesn't worry about making as much money as possible, but rather worries about making enough money to continue. Yes, wrestling is a business, but if the way things are going means there won't be any business in the future, it's an awful business plan to get into wrestling. There needs to be options, and competition. That's was what made the 90's so great. That's what made the territories so great.

TNA isn't enough to do it. ROH needs to get out there. Companies need to offer something that isn't aimed at making money, but bringing honor and respect back to a failing industry.

 

[shattered dreams]

The shrinking wrestling audience does TNA no favors but I think the bigger issue is that it is quite hard to market directly to the former wrestling fans to get them to come back and watch just TNA. TNA has troubles with marketing anyway but they are in a tough place as even finding who to market to let alone figuring out how to convince them. Marketing to current WWE fans does not do them a lot of good. Partially because PGWWE and TNA have some striking differences and partially because for whatever reason people have become ridiculously brand loyal to WWE. I might guess the people that stuck with it through the downfall rationalized it to themselves so many times that they became brainwashed by the product. Since the former wrestling fans have gone many directions it is hard to reach out to a large group of them at one time. Couple that problem with TNA not having much money for such marketing and that is a big part of their problem.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

It's been pointed out in numerous threads before that TNA's problems are primarily internal. The problems with TNA Creative and TNA Management are legitimately there no matter how much some try to pretend that they're not.

Wrestling does tend to have cycles in which it's hot and cold. For a few years, wrestling becomes extremely popular and trendy to watch and then most of those viewers move onto different things. It's happened time and time again throughout wrestling history.

There are more wrestling fans out there, TNA simply isn't able to draw them in. Raw tends to do roughly around 5 million viewers in the United States on a weekly basis. It drew 5.2 million this past week while Smackdown generally draws around 3 million viewers each week. Sometimes it's a little more, sometimes its a little less. TNA iMPACT! is currently drawing around 1.3-1.4 million viewers each week, so there's a lot of room for growth. For the most part, TNA has managed to recapture viewers that it lost after its move to Monday nights and that's a good thing for them. Are there some fans that simply refuse to watch TNA out of blind loyalty to the WWE? I'm sure there are. Are there some fans that have given TNA a chance and it just hasn't been able to suck them in? Sure, most likely.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Several folks posting in this thread are advising TNA how they can improve their product, but that just avoids the subject at hand.

The thing is, there is still room for small wrestling companies who put on shows in the local high schools and other small regional promotions. TNA's problem is there isn't really much room for growth for a company that wants to go national and "take down" WWE. If a fan likes the glitz and glamour of an international wrestling organization, WWE gives them all they need. A lot of the people who like TNA are fans because they hate WWE. You can tell that by reading the posts of many TNA fans on this forum. There are lots of people like that, but possibly not enough on which to build a national promotion.

And yes, there are less wrestling fans today than there were during the Attitude Era, but I submit that many of them weren't really fans, anyway. It's just that wrestling was a hot ticket back then and those people wanted to watch what they figured everyone else was watching. Even today, you can spot them at arena shows, talking on their cell phones rather than watching the action in the ring. Most of the real fans of wrestling are still around.

 

[CuddleBuns84]

I think they are plenty of wrestling fans out there right now. In fact, when WCW came into the picture, after the big 80's boom, they really weren't nearly as big and WWF. So, it took some time, but, the nWo angle happen, and boom, WCW vs. WWF. It was great television, and it created a lot of fans.

TNA's problem, is they aren't relying on good wrestling and great promos, but big name vets to make them popular. If you start an ECW blog, or check them out on YouTube, they have tons of comments and people missing them. Not too many main event names there. But people loved it.

TNA needs to be about opportunity for a career, not an opportunity to make a lot of cash. I mean, you still have to pay guys pretty well. What I mean by that, is, If they could find someone like the Rock, or HHH, and work with them, they can turn the company around. Not the actually Rock or HHH. But people in the independent circuit.

Not also that, but wrestling fans aren't stoked about Kevin Nash or Hogan anymore. Hogan left his career at a good note at Summerslam 06. It was a decent match against Orton, and it helped someone else boost their career. He doesn't need to be helping TNA gain ground on WWE.

Wrestling fans can return, if something new and big can come back. Maybe the Return of the Rock. That would help wrestling. A rival promotion, that can compete with WWE. New stars that the WWE didn't create. That's the big one right there. Does the WWE do a good job creating stars... Yes, but can anyone else make them? If another company can do that, then wrestling might change again.

 

[hatehabsforever]

With all due respect to the OP, I think his idea is total bullshit.

There have always been alternatives for wrestling fans, or potential wrestling fans, to watch. There is Monday Night Football, playoffs in various pro sports, prime time TV, movies, whatever. A successful wrestling product is able to draw some of these fans away from these other distractions and entice them to watch their product. WWE is able to do so and always has been. TNA is not.

Back when WCW threatened WWE in the days of the Monday Night Wars, they drew wrestling fans away from the WWE and convinced viewers to change the channel. TNA has not been able to convince today's WWE fans to do the same.

Granted there are factors today that weren't there before. MMA and their PPV's, combined with larger numbers of WWE PPV's, and tougher economic times, have given TNA more obstacles to overcome. But the fans are out there if TNA can entice them to cross the line. But thus far, they haven't been able to do so.

 

[Kenny Powers]

There are fans out there, but most of them watched WWF, WCW, or even ECW when they were young kids or teenagers. Now they are grown ups with families of their own. Even the young single adults are probably into reality shows, sports, or MMA more then anything. Most wrestling fans have grown up and have no idea that TNA exists. They know WCW and ECW aren't around. WWE has catered to a new audience, leaving the majority of the old behind and picking up new ones.

Wrestling maybe more mainstream now with the internet and more media opportunities for wrestling companies. Most people only know of WWE and have no clue about TNA or ROH. Some don't even know that Hulk Hogan, Sting, Ric Flair, Kurt Angle, and RVD are still wrestling. I think watching wrestling was a guilty pleasure for a lot of people in the 90s, kinda like watching Jerry Springer. Even if people knew about TNA and ROH, I still doubt they tune in. Most people just tuned in to see The Rock, DX, and Steve Austin.

John Cena, Randy Orton, AJ Styles, and Samoa Joe aren't household names to many people despite how popular they are to wrestling fans.

 

[GameOver]

haven't read every comment but it's probably b een stated b4, there problem is an overall one.

1) Wrestling's been stale for years, everything has been done hundreds of time over so nothing is really fresh, other than who faces who in a given month

2) TNA seems to have nfi when it comes to booking talent. and change there minds too often

3) constant inadvertant or otherwise references (advertising) how great WWE is in trying to bag them "that's the place where legends come from" for instance is something that Ric Flair stated not that long ago, but as a group they've been doing it for years

4) Every new person who comes in, is the greatest acquisition in wrestling history. BLAH BLAH BLAH. Also on that note too many people getting hired then not used or used in preference over the originals who if they aren't worth of a push why do they keep them on.

5) PPV's are uttterly horrible period. Why would anyone wanna pay $25+ to watch something that was better on Impact for free.

6) WCW going belly up killed off the competitive aspect of the Attitude era. But you can't blame WWE fot that, prior to WCW going head to head with WWE, atleast in Australia WCW was virtually unknown other than on a dialup information line.

Meanwhile WWE was already a global company and WCW were doing there own thing fine. They killed themselves off.

7) TNA started off basing around a different style of "wrestling" in the X'Division which although it was purely spot fest, it was entertaining, which is what got me enticed but that was years ago, now it's just another bland mixed show that offers nothing in any area. to coin a phrase - Jack of all trades, Master of nothing

could go on an on, about poor production values, crap commentry, useless storylines, crappy arena.

 

[jamaal mayes]

I wish people know what ratings are I work in the news business in in the year 2000 there was only about 100 cable stations so there was not that many options on tv. now there are about 300 to 400 plus online tv so the ratings share goes down, that's why you don't see the 6.5 ratings anymore and never will. even American idol ratings have falling cause of.that there is more of an option.

 

[jamaal mayes]

wwe is a brand like NFL, pepsi, and Ford the name alone is worth billions wcw never had that, every time a fight happen in sports comentators refer it to wwf style fighting and name wwf or wrestlemania was always spoke of in movies or tv wcw never had that and tna will never and wwe will never die even if they never do another show there catalogs are so big and rich in history that they can make tons of money off dvd sells alone.

 

[Otsegolectric]

TNA needs to get out of that small arena and take their show on the road to gain exposure. I was a hardcore WWF fan in the 90s and once I stumbled on WCW I watched that because I liked wrestling and both had things to offer. Then I saw ECW and loved that too. A decade later I flip on tv and say WTF is TNA? It's like wrestling with nothing but cruiserweight spot fests! Sweet!

Now I am not a teen but still love wrestling. So what are my options?

1) Watch WWE. What happened to gimmicks? Costumes? Unique looks? Great promo work? These new guys are generally boring and lack what the older guys had in terms of individuality. You used to be able to watch any promotion and no matter if Cactus Jack was WCW or ECW you could see his crazy ass matches and great promos. Now it seems these new characters lack... character. Identity. It shouldn't be about the promotion, but the wrestlers.

2) TNA. I want to like them so much! They are allowing me to live my nostalgia. Privately, that's ok. But business wise, trouble. They need to stop trying to cash in on easy money and establish their own stars. I think the wrestling on TNA is loads better than WWE. AJ Styles, Somoan Joe, etc are all great talents who were going full force. Why aren't they getting bigger?

Competition was key for Attitude era. Not only that, but it was great to see stars jump ship and see what they could offer the other promotion. I see nothing wrong with wrestlers switching companies. It was way too frequent in the 90s, but it helped them build character. Now if a wrestler goes from WWE to TNA, he is a left over. If he goes from TNA or WWE we know we are going to get a dumbed down version with no character.

My biggest complaint is lack of stars. I remember after not watching WWE for a while, I flipped on the tv and said WTF IS MARK HENRY DOING IN THE MAIN EVENT? Are you serious! He was a freaking joke in the Attitude era. What did they do to Jericho? He is like a dumbed down version with no charisma! He had some of the best and funniest promos ever. Sheamus main event? Test had more ability and sounded better on the mic.

I spend more time on the wrestling boards than I do watching it. I don't want another Attitude Era or Monday Wars. I just want wrestling. I don't care what brand. I don't care if it's the old guys or Nexus. I want good stories with character and memorable moments. That means good promos, great matches, and stories I can tell my friends about. The Attitude era best identifies this but I hope we can get something similar someday soon before I grow up too much. MMA is cool, but I like my male soap operas.

 

[DangerousDave]

I'm one of the hardcore fans that came back to wresling when Hogan went to TNA and brought in the 4 sided ring. I lost intrest when WCW went out and WWE aimed their wrestling at kids. The final nail in the coffin was Doink the Clown. The WWE is so full of shameful gimmicks I can't stand it. Iv'e tried watching WWE lately but never made it past the 20 minute mark without turning it off.
I like TNA because it isn't aimed at kids, juicing is ok, and they arent afraid to say the word "asshole" on tv. The wrestler's gimmicks and personalities are at least beliveable for the most part. The guys put on a hell of a show in my opinion especially guys like AJ Styles & Beer money. Yes, I know some of the story lines are inconsistant and there are other problems, but I have seen improvement since I started watching. I've been to the Impact Zone several times and always have fun.