Is the IWC ruining pro-wrestling today?

[ABC123]

Now don't get me wrong, I go on all the sites (mostly Wrestlezone of course); I check all of the news, spoilers, results etc but recently I've been thinking... am I enjoying wrestling less because of this?

Easy solution, obviously, is to stop going on these sites and avoid any related wrestling news but at the same time I'm curious and if I see a headline advertising "BIG NEWS" I want to read. Who doesn't?

My second point is how much influence does the IWC have over the industry? I think the biggest part of the IWC's influence is indirect. I guess the WWE doesn't go out of it's way to provide the IWC with what it wants but, are they adjusting their story-lines because news has been leaked? Take for example the recent Jericho story line; did we miss out on the whole "end of the world" due to numerous sources predicting it would happen?

So, who is to blame for the drastic and sudden story line changes? Is it creative's/Vine's indecisiveness or the IWC?

 

[dman1373]

i think that it has help the buisness more than it has hurt it. It has made the buisness more healthy because of indys getting more support. And now we have three national wrestling promotions, and a lot of indies that are growing(like chikara and dragongate usa.)

It does hurt taped shows and everything, but also if the shows are really good, more people change the channel to them.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

Like Hobo King said above me there are many groups that make of the collective IWC.

Now if you go by what I think most people assume to be the generic definition of the IWC, mostly made up of smarks, people who read spoilers, look for story leaks, analyze every match, give crap to workers who don't deserve pushes, ect.. Then I would say no. Sometimes we make predictions and instead of dealing with the reality that we were wrong we instantly label it as a swerve and a sudden storyline chance. We aren't always right, I mean how many stories do you see on the main page that turn out to be wrong?

Granted by reading spoilers and taking a lot of the suspense and shock of tings totally ruins the experience. Like at the Rumble, it was already common knowledge who the surprise entrants would be for the most part but overall I don't think we are ruining it

 

[sjdigitall]

yes. dirt sheet sites are like a drug, they're bad for you but they're just something that can be addictive. trying to find out backstage news, stories inside the wrestling world but it comes at a cost in that things wont be as shocking if you know (or think you know) everything.

 

[Headman]

I don't believe the IWC has as much influence over the industry as they think they do. All in all the membes of the IWC that make the most noise are the same as any fanboys on any other type of website. They are self centered and demand to be catered to even when it's not in the best interests of the company they're a fan of. They are actually too demanding and will never allow themselves to be pleased. So to answer your question, is the IWC ruining wrestling? Yes, they're ruining it for themselves.

 

[kabby420]

people were never designed to have so much access to so much information at one time...in my opinion that defies logical thinking...humans are creatures of logic....the internet has ruined alot of things (including marriages) and yes it has ruined wrestling as well...if "dirt sheets" were up and running as they are now... back in the 90's...the biggest heel turn in wrestling history probably wouldnt have happened or would have been totally different..no one saw hogan turning ahead of time....that was soo huge it was world wide news...i have always been loyal to wwf/wwe but when that happened....i was ordering wcw ppv's and recording nitro and thunder on a regular basis....if i had a "dirt sheet" to go look at i would have just by passed watching it and just read about it (probably a big problem for TNA) theres no such thing as a surprise anymore...people can find out the suprises with a couple of mouse clicks.

on the flip side of human nature...we are also creatures of habit... hense why i always comeback to wrestlezone.

there was a very good reason the government never intended for the internet to be used by civilians

 

[THTRobtaylor]

I don't think the IWC in terms of fans ruin wrestling... There is an element from within who talk to sites and leak information to the sheets. They are doing far more damage to wrestling than we are by speculating and giving opinion. If it's a footballer and they talk about that kind of stuff, they get banned... Yet WWE seems to allow a certain amount of leakage... If they wanted it watertight it would be...

Recently I have gotten back into just watching live, spoilers and reports meant I only selectively watched for a while... I sat up til 4 for the rumble and even though I was pissed at the ending, I enjoyed it. If Sheamus was the intended winner, great... If they changed it just to swerve then not great...

 

[justinept]

.if "dirt sheets" were up and running as they are now... back in the 90's...the biggest heel turn in wrestling history probably wouldnt have happened or would have been totally different..no one saw hogan turning ahead of time....

Well, you win the award for "I've already forgot what it was like 15 years ago."

Hulk Hogan's heel turn wasn't leaked to the dirt sheets because Eric Bischoff told exactly ZERO people - outside Hogan - what the plan was. The lack of a leak had nothing to do with the dirt sheets not being prevalent. Internet dirt sheets existed in 1996 ... and while they weren't as frequented as they are now ... there were still the hotlines and magazines that gave away story lines and behind the scenes information. Seriously. I can't believe how many people believe that dirt sheets are f'ing new to the wrestling industry in the past 10 years.

I honestly think the dirt sheets give themselves WAY too much credit when it comes to story lines being changed due to "leaks." Every time something doesn't go as the "leak" suggested, we're told that plans were changed last minute - or my favorite line, "Raw was being re-written until the last minute." Seriously. Every f'ing time!

Hell, take the Royal Rumble last week. The WWE decided that Brodus Clay or Kofi Kingston were going to enter the Rumble 2nd. Then, Alex Riley entered the Rumble at number 2. Instead of just saying they got bad information or that their source was wrong, we got the obligatory "plans changed" line. I guess Vince was soooo f'ing worried about the dirt sheets scooping his big secret on the 2nd entrant that he had to change course.

To answer your question. The IWC is nothing but a blip on the radar for Vince McMahon and the WWE. I'm sure he gets upset when a big secret is revealed early, but I've never been a believer that he changes course just to "swerve" us. Consider the last two big returns that were "spoiled" by the dirt sheets: Jericho with 1/2/12 and 'Taker with 2/21/11 ... Were either of those changed last minute because the sheets picked up on who the returning star would be?

 

[M3420]

The so called 'IWC' seems to take itself too seriously, has an overly negative slant, and should stop throwing in words like 'smark'

I don't really think they're 'ruining' wrestling though. WWE may have gotten a bit lazy by not sending Jericho in on a private jet, but then again this whole Jericho thing needs to get its act together and GET TO THE POINT ALREADY!! One picture of him seen by the ten percent probably only added to what seemed like a pretty hot crowd during his return.

The thing about the Hogan heel turn is intriguing though. It's definitely more of a challenge to keep things under lock and key, but then again I'm a pretty active wrestlezone reader and was totally shocked at the Cena royal rumble return a few years back, so the possibility of surprising the audience still exists

In closing, the 'IWC' could also do everyone a favor and remind themselves that while they are loud and can boo as many heels as they would like, they should try to remember that most of the show is catered to a younger audience and parents of those youngsters who buy the merch and the pay per views while us 'smarks' or IWCers team up and watch for free at a bar or at a friends house, so it makes much more business sense to cater to the kids. However, I'm realistic enough to say that the whole PG thing has gone a bit overboard and those of us who fondly remember the attitude era and ECW are left rolling our eyes at some of this new stuff.

Bottom line: LIGHTEN UP!!!! Enjoy the show!!!!!!!!

 

[Azane]

I'm nearly 100% sure a swerve was done here or there because of the internet, but I don't think anything Huge has ever been done.

I know WWE has changed angles when a superstar leaked info on twitter or facebook or whatnot, but I don't think the IWC has made anything too huge.

Zack Ryder, he's the internet's mascot. He embodies social media's influence on the stories, and he grew from the IWC to the live crowds, I think most of Ryder's recent success (ignore the Embrace the Hate storyline) has been a direct result of the IWC and social media's influence.

As far as the internet ruining wrestling.... you ruin it for yourself, this site does a good job of criminlizing spoilers, I've only had 1 story spoiled for me from the forums, and I know that person was future endeavored soon around then. The front posts, I stopped reading unless I was in a really curious mood, because they sensationalize a lot, but the real stories I don't want ruined.

 

[MistaSynista]

the IWC was in the beginning stages around Hogan's heel turn because I remember searching on AOL for wrestling news when i came across a site, don't remember the name too long ago, but and I quote said "look for the third invader to be none other than HH"...boom instantly spoiled. Then looking at the spoilers for RAW and Heat every other week. It took the gullible lil fan out of me and turned me into a smark, so much I had my own dirt sheet in 2000, made of other dirt sheets, for my high school newspaper. Most of it hit the nail on the head. So I think the IWC isn't ruining wrestling, because the C of course stands for community and that is our place to share news and ideals such as this...I just think Internet Wrestling News is what spoils all of the fun and mystique.

 

[Honkey_Kong]

people were never designed to have so much access to so much information at one time...in my opinion that defies logical thinking...humans are creatures of logic....the internet has ruined alot of things (including marriages) and yes it has ruined wrestling as well...if "dirt sheets" were up and running as they are now... back in the 90's...the biggest heel turn in wrestling history probably wouldnt have happened or would have been totally different..no one saw hogan turning ahead of time....that was soo huge it was world wide news...i have always been loyal to wwf/wwe but when that happened....i was ordering wcw ppv's and recording nitro and thunder on a regular basis....if i had a "dirt sheet" to go look at i would have just by passed watching it and just read about it (probably a big problem for TNA) theres no such thing as a surprise anymore...people can find out the suprises with a couple of mouse clicks.

on the flip side of human nature...we are also creatures of habit... hense why i always comeback to wrestlezone.

there was a very good reason the government never intended for the internet to be used by civilians

There were dirt sheets in the 80's. Scoops posted newsletters that ended up getting posted on the Fidonet wrestling forum well before the internet got big. Hogan's heel turn wasn't known to anybody besides Hogan and Bischoff.

 

[kabby420]

if you re read what i wrote maybe you will understand... i was saying if dirt sheets were as readily available back in the 90's as they are now....to clarify that once again....this means i know dirt sheets were around back then, and i know there were 900 numbers to call Oakerlund promoted the hell out of em because you had to pay to use them, and i would imagine that added up to alot (not nearly as accessible as wrestlezone.com is it) i appologize if i wasnt clear enough

 

[DeathClutch]

No the IWC isn't hurting wrestling, if anything we're hurting ourselves, allowing us to get the storylines and then when something happens we don't like we come on and vent, WWE isn't listening, but we know Vince hates spoilers.

Like I said in a previous post, we're fickle and pick up on WWE's faults with crystal clarity yet the positives we rarely highlight. If Wrestling is as bad as we make it out we wouldn't watch it, I'll admit I only watch RAW due to it being live and the occasional ppv if there's a match or two I really want to watch if not I don't watch the product. The last times I've watched Smackdown in the last 5+ years have been the live shows, but I use the dirt sheets to keep up with the current product, so in some respect the dirt sheets are handy but if you want enjoy WWE and want everything to be a surprise than don't come online and enjoy what they put out.

 

[PeaceAndLove]

I am going to say yes, they busted the whole jericho thing because they wanted shock value (im actually for sheamus, push a young guy like him instead of HOF first year jericho) but what the dirt sheets really spoiled was the rocks return....just imagine if you guys had no idea in hell who it was coming back? then the dirt sheets spoiled him coming back for ss....i say those dickweeds need to stop talking to bloggers/journalists over spoilers. it makes it really hard not to check this stuff out when you see as a headline :MAJOR SPOILER! on raw this monday...you know you go and think hey ill check this out to see if lesnar is coming back or some crap like that then i find out the title is changing hands. its not ruining it as a whole i think its just driving casual fans away because of all the bitching that goes on on these websites. thats just my opinion though

 

[Derf]

Claiming the internet is ruining Pro Wrestling is like a porn star beating his meat before shoooting a scene and being upset at the lack of "payoff", if you know what I mean. You do it to yourselfs, and I'm just as guilty. 5-6 years ago, before I had the internet, everything was exciting. I was one of the few that watched WMXX and had NO idea why the Lesner/Goldberg match was being boo'ed, but it was still interesting.

Had I not been a member of the ICW, several of the last few years storylines would have been legit shocks. Rocks return, both of Jerichos returns, can you imagine if you DIDN'T see those coming? Shocks like this are what kept wrestling alive, but there were always a handful of people that would know about them. Now that everyone knows, WWE has to book carefully. If someone is so much as spotted at a local airport, an entire angle is destroyed. If someone cancels an indy boooking the same night as a WWE broadcast, we end up in a frenzy. We were only upset at Jericho losing the Rumble because he didn't interfere in Punks match, yet a non ICW fan wouldn't have ever made the connection, and thus had nothing to complain about.

We ruined it ourselves, and the only way we can fix it is ICW Detox.

 

[MMK]

The internet has definitely played an overwhelmingly negative role in wrestling's decline. But it's not alone. Lack of any real competition, stale product, no major new stars being developed, and older stars outstaying their welcome have all played a role in wrestling's downturn.

Although I dislike the term IWC. I think it's pretentious. I don't think it really exists. People act as though it's this new entity separate from wrestling fans when of course it isn't. The IWC has always existed. Only instead of communicating via the internet, hardcore fans of the 80's and 90's read wrestling magazines, hotlines, etc. So the "IWC" has always existed, it's just never had a platform as easily accesible as the internet.

And since we hardcore fans have always existed, we can't possibly be to blame. BUT, the internet itself definitely is. I don't believe sites such as this one should EVER under any circumstance post spoilers, leaked exclusives, or anything of that nature. It's irresponsible. It's amazing watching the wrestling pundits of the web and radio, hosting programs and criticizing the product that they've helped water down via their constant spoiling everything. Just because you CAN post spoilers, exclusives, doesn't mean you SHOULD.

And to those who say, "no one is forcing you to read those stories", I say that is a big red herring. Last year the Kevin Nash thing was tainted by some people (eh em) posting videos of Nash arriving in Boston. And it wasn't listed under the vague title of "BIG NAME arrives in Boston". They specifically used Nash's name on the link, so even if, like me, you never click on those spoilers, in that particular case you didn't need to click on it because Nash's name was right there in the headline.

I like to be able to come on sites like this for the same reason I read PWI and all the other wrestling magazines back in the 80's and 90's, but what I don't like is when sites like this give away storylines, returns, spoilers, etc.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I think that a healthy sized portion of the IWC is runing pro wrestling for themselves more than anything else. Like the rest of the world, there is no one particular voice or opinion among the IWC as a whole, but far too many internet fans are more concerned with watching a program for the purpose of nitpicking at it and just to generally bitch about it rather than even try to enjoy it. That doesn't mean that there aren't going to be some things that pop up sometimed that's justifiable in disliking, but these same people seem to have this impossible and often contradictory standard as to what they want.

For instance, people have complained about how "predictable" wrestling is. At the same time, how many of those same internet fans spend time searching the net for spoilers to upcoming wrestling broadcasts or for leaked information as to a potential feud, storyline or ending of a current running program between two wrestlers? It's hard to be "unpredictable" when people are busy scouring the internet for the purpose of finding out what's going to be taking place next. As for a contradiction of that, there was a thread created a day or so ago in the WWE section asking if people thought WWE was trying "too hard" to be unpredictable. The WWE gets grief for being "predictable" and gets just as much when they're unpredictable. For instance, people didn't expect Daniel Bryan to cash in MITB at TLC but he did and, over the course of the past 6 weeks or so, has become one of the hottest young heels on the WWE roster. People were expecting Brodus Clay to pop up as this lame, one dimensional monster heel but he popped up with his Funkasaurus character that's already getting pretty over with fans, it shows a lot of charisma on Clay's part, he's connecting with the audience and that will ultimately help his career out more in the long run. Kane returned with a different twist on being a monster, namely being a monster that has a brain. People were expecting, and many were wanting, Kane to come back as this silent, one dimensional, near unstoppable beast rather than to have him come back with an intriguing character and an interesting storyline with John Cena. People were expecting Chris Jericho to win the Royal Rumble but Sheamus won it instead. A lot of them were acting as if someone like Santino Marella or Jinder Mahal had won the Rumble.

These are a few examples of unexpected happenings that WWE has put out over the past several weeks and they're all currently working out. A huge problem, however, is that heathy sized portion of the IWC fancy themselves as great bookers that have far better ideas than the current WWE writing staff. As I said in a somewhat similar thread, that is the sort of arrogance breeded from the fact that there are no real negative consequences to those ideas. Nobody in the IWC has anything to lose, so there's no risk. They want EXACTLY what they want to see happen and tend to piss all over anything that doesn't match up with the ideal scenario that they have running through their minds. In short, if it ain't what they would have done, then it sucks. They're more worried about continuously stroking their own egos and convincing themselves that they could do a better job, without the benefit of even the least shred of experience working in pro wrestling, that they don't want to enjoy a company's product. They want what they want, whether what they want makes sense or not. Again, that is a by-product of that arrogance.

 

[Paralyzer Z]

The so called 'IWC' seems to take itself too seriously, has an overly negative slant, and should stop throwing in words like 'smark'

"Smark" is usually seen as a derogatory term that IWC member use on each other. Not something that a casual fan would really refer to us a such.

I don't really think they're 'ruining' wrestling though. WWE may have gotten a bit lazy by not sending Jericho in on a private jet,[/QUOTE]

What do you mean by "sending him in on a private jet"? Are you being figurative or literal. Are you saying that they should have made him speak and win the Royal Rumbe? Most importantly:

but then again this whole Jericho thing needs to get its act together and GET TO THE POINT ALREADY!! One picture of him seen by the ten percent probably only added to what seemed like a pretty hot crowd during his return.

What does this have to do with anything?

The thing about the Hogan heel turn is intriguing though. It's definitely more of a challenge to keep things under lock and key, but then again I'm a pretty active wrestlezone reader and was totally shocked at the Cena royal rumble return a few years back, so the possibility of surprising the audience still exists

Of course it still exist, most of the audience doesn't read spoilers and in turn are shocked when a return happens. Hell even if you read spoilers you could still react with a lot of emotion.

In closing, the 'IWC' could also do everyone a favor and remind themselves that while they are loud and can boo as many heels as they would like, they should try to remember that most of the show is catered to a younger audience and parents of those youngsters who buy the merch and the pay

So we can't voice our opinion on the product because it is catered to another demographic? Don't get me wrong I'm not a "BRING BAK DA AtiTUDE ERA AGAIN, PG FUCKIN SUCKSS!!!!" but others can voice opinions as they like,

per views while us 'smarks' or IWCers team up and watch for free at a bar or at a friends house, so it makes much more business sense to cater to the kids.

Once again you're generalizing us.

However, I'm realistic enough to say that the whole PG thing has gone a bit overboard and those of us who fondly remember the attitude era and ECW are left rolling our eyes at some of this new stuff.

Bottom line: LIGHTEN UP!!!! Enjoy the show!!!!!!!!]

Contradicting yourself I see.

Do I think the IWC ruins wrestling? No because I can't speak for everyone in that uses the internet to discuss wrestling, I can only speak for myself. I look up spoilers and new stories because I have a desire too, if someone else doesn't want to do that well then good for them. An entire community does have identical ideas as others in the same community, some may like to watch with no spoilers and some don't. It's as clear cut and concise as that.

 

[kdk5680]

I talk to my friends about what we think will happen on wrestling. Been doing it since i was a kid(20+years now). If I would be on the play ground and say that x is coming back and he did, did that ruin it for them? No, because they took it with a grain of salt and, the next day at the playground, would say i guessed right.

I KNEW Jericho was wining the Rumble, was going to somehow get the WHC from Bryan(or whoever was champ) and that way the belt would be unified at WM when the two "best wrestlers in the world" found out who truly was the best. If this happened would it have been a "spoiler", would it have ruined WRM for me if that happened? NO, because the story would have still played out, the match would have still gone on, and i would have still enjoyed the show.

As many others have stated, the IWC takes itself too seriously. We are all just people talking about what we think will happen and want to happen. And as long as we take it with a grain of salt, dont scream "swerve" everytime somethimg we want to happen doesnt play out the way we want, it still just friends talking on the playground.

So has the IWC ruined wrestilng, no, as long as you remember to enjoy the show.

 

[Rayne]

Ten percenter, smark, IWC, and various insider internet terms.

This is directed at more than the person who posted it. If these three terms are part of your vocabulary for debate on these forums, pay attention.

I can't believe this conversation is going to happen again on this board, but fuck it. If it's still being brought up, it means people still have learning to do. I'm a firm believer that humanity can always make it from point A to point B, even if the journey can take a really, really long time.

Let's start with "IWC", or "Internet Wrestling Community". What this means is anyone who has an internet connection and wishes to discuss professional wrestling using it. By posting here, you are a member of the "IWC". Folks often act as if there's some "pure" fan in existence, that doesn't know about the internet, spoilers, in fact, a person that apparently never used google to look up anything about professional wrestling. (This non-internet using fan must be terribly uninterested in the product.) There are no more fans who are having wrestling ruined for them by that evil internet. What people usually mean to say when they mention "the IWC" is "the portion of the internet in this discussion that disagrees with me", the subtext being that "my opponents are obsessive wrestling fans who are so anal-retentive they have forgotten what's good, where as my opinion, not being from "the IWC", is as pure as virgin pussy."

I've never seen the term "IWC" used in any kind of factual basis. It's a weasel word that people around here- average debating skills being around Larry the Cable Guy- for some reason think is relevant to any argument, ever. (That's an average, not a generalization.)

"Ten percenter" falls into the same category. People seem to have forgotten where this term comes from, thanks to the very successful spin campaign waged by Eric Bischoff. Originally, "ten percenter" meant, "the people who watch wrestling and use the internet". Eric, being an Old Media guy, probably legitimately thought that until demographics demonstrated that just about everyone who watches professional wrestling also has an internet connection. The next thing you know, it's now "the fans on the internet who don't like my product and talk about it", which was arbitrarily called "ten percent". (For those without the benefit of the education to catch that ploy, that's a psychological move intended to proclaim to your prospective supporters that by agreeing with Eric Bischoff, you are part of the majority, and that people who disagree with him are an outcast minority.) With the argument framed like that, it's small wonder that small-minded people keep repeating "ten percenter".

A "smark" is any fan who wishes to discuss wrestling beyond what they see on the television, and imagine insights into the business based on information they've received from actors. Hi, smark! So Jericho's return should be done differently, you say?


The argument always comes down to "I don't agree with your opinion", but instead of being able to handle this like mature adults who can say "I disagree with you, will always think you're wrong, but will hear your argument", it's "you're a brainwashed slob who doesn't appreciate wrestling in the correct fashion."

 

[Khalifa]

Ofcourse it does. It's impossible to have a good feud for the midcard or the tag team division will never be as good as what it was because of the IWC. The attitude era is claimed to be so much better than the PG era because of the IWC and storylines are adjusted because of the IWC.

The IWC can't get over the fact that it will never be the attitude era again and all dwell on the past saying everything is shit. "Cena is so bad! His character is so old! How is he even the top face!" are just a few things that most of the IWC say. Cena is a great wrestler believe it or not guys. He puts on awesome matches and awesome fueds but because he isn't The Rock or Stone Cold he 'sucks'.

A midcard feud will never be good because of how high the IC title was back in the attitude era. People seem to be forgetting though that there wasn't another world title or a U.S title back then. The IC title was the second most important thing in wrestling back then. MVP vs Matt Hardy is a classic example. I see a lot of people on here saying "it was an okay feud but it went on for too long. It got boring". Was I watching something different? If this was in the attitude era it would have been gold. It should of made the U.S title more credible to you guys but all it did was bore you. Arguably it was when both Matt and MVP were in their primes and they put on some wicked promo's as well as matches. You guys just didn't appreciate the beauty of this feud.

"Tag team titles suck. They mean nothing now." Um hello! We had the same 3 teams fighting for the titles for almost 3 years! Sure there were a few different teams here and there like APA, Brothers of Destruction and the Two Man Power Trip, but mostly the tag team division revolved around The Hardyz, E&C and the Dudleys. Yet we complain about how there are a lack of teams here and how the tag team titles don't mean much.

I will admit that the midcard titles and tag team titles do need a bit of adjusting here and there but for the most part it is pretty good. Cody Rhodes who is going to be a star one day has held the title for a very long time. Dolph Ziggler recently had the U.S title and every IWF loves him. Jack Swagger who was looked upon as a god in 2010 now has the title. The tag team division is lacking variaty but it always has. Even back in the attitude era random wrestlers were placed together just to make up the numbers.

The IWC look at the attitude era as such a great era but people seem to forget that now the WWE has more titles to account for and more people to build because of the IWC. If there wasn't two world titles people would complain about the crowded main event. It would also mean that some people would have to go down. Like Randy Orton wouldn't of been in the main event as early as he was. We might of not seen Christian up in the main event etc. That would of also got people complaining about Orton and Christian not being in the main event, same goes for Mark Henry and heck probably even CM Punk. Nothing is ever good enough for the IWC.

The IWC need to realise that it's not the attitude era and just because the PG era doesn't involve Rock and Austin doesn't mean it's not good. IWC also need to realise that what happened back then doesn't mean it was so fucking good and that stuff that happens now is actually pretty darn good.