Is the devil a "good" creation of God?

Serious Mozzarella

Special Victims Unit
So in the interest of an open-ended post, I'll make this short.

Based on all the literature and philosophy you know about the Christian devil, and what scripture says about literature, do you think it's possible that the devil, if everything recorded about his existence, is a creature of good, rather than evil?

From what I understand, Satan/Lucifer/the Devil roams around Earth, persuading people to sin and "turn to evil." If life is nothing more than a test for God, is the devil not doing God's work and therefore a "good" creature?

Please bring out all the obscure literature of the devil; I'm legitimately interested.
 
You're actually right. The Devil is made into a creature of evil but deep down inside the Devil is actually a creature of good that is made to test followers of God. That explains why the Devil hasn't been destroyed for so long and why Jesus as shown in the Bible has dominion over demons.
 
The devil is an interesting subject. Seeing as in some cases, the devil temps adam and eve and in others, the devil isn't created until Job.

In most instances the "devil" when referenced as an actual being is actually a misinterpretation of the original text (likely made to personify evil for the purposes of th story). "Devil" "satan" etc is mostly just the personification of evil, which is fine.

So do I think that "bad" is good? Yes, I would HATE perfect life. I LOVE struggle. I love the sense of accomplishment, walking away from a struggle knowing you're a better person because of it.

Go back to Adam and Eve, had they never eaten from the apple then we wouldn't have all the wonderful struggles we have today. God meant for that to happen. I'm one of the few who interprets it that way. Most others interpret it as "should listen to god" which basically translates to "should listen to your superiors" which sounds like something those guys who wrote it in Latin a few hundred years ago would say.

In short, yes, it's good that we are tempted and that we struggle. I think there IS a ruler of hell, but that he probably communicates with God about what to do for the best of humanity. Then again, I'm kinda "out there" to most people because I don't think the version we have of the bible is at all what God intended. At least not how we interpret it.
 
The devil is an interesting subject. Seeing as in some cases, the devil temps adam and eve and in others, the devil isn't created until Job.

In most instances the "devil" when referenced as an actual being is actually a misinterpretation of the original text (likely made to personify evil for the purposes of th story). "Devil" "satan" etc is mostly just the personification of evil, which is fine.

So do I think that "bad" is good? Yes, I would HATE perfect life. I LOVE struggle. I love the sense of accomplishment, walking away from a struggle knowing you're a better person because of it.

Go back to Adam and Eve, had they never eaten from the apple then we wouldn't have all the wonderful struggles we have today. God meant for that to happen. I'm one of the few who interprets it that way. Most others interpret it as "should listen to god" which basically translates to "should listen to your superiors" which sounds like something those guys who wrote it in Latin a few hundred years ago would say.

In short, yes, it's good that we are tempted and that we struggle. I think there IS a ruler of hell, but that he probably communicates with God about what to do for the best of humanity. Then again, I'm kinda "out there" to most people because I don't think the version we have of the bible is at all what God intended. At least not how we interpret it.

So you would rather live in a world where people suffer and die on a regular basis from wars, starvation, diseases and natural disaters? In a world where crime and violence is everywhere? That's better than living in a perfect world forever? Strange to say the least.
---

To answer the orginal question, no he's not a good creation. Satan wasn't always Satan. However, when the first human couple was created, He saw all the worship God was receiving and wanted it. So this perfect angel used a serpent to decieve Eve into believing that if she ate the fruit, she could be like God and not need him anymore. (This happens to be the first lie). She ate it and gave some to her husband. God told them the consequences would be death if they ate from the tree, and that's what happened. They were no longer perfect, and so when they had kids, they weren't perfect either.

Move ahead to Job. In the heavens, Stan challenged that Job (and in turn all humans), only serve God because good things are going for them. But if some hardships, some bad things happened to them, that they would turn on him. He challenged that humans did not need God, that they could rule themselves. So God has allowed Satan to prove it.

If you have learned anything about God, you would know that he is a God of love. Why would he create someone to be evil andtest humans? The only test he gave was that in the Garden of Eden to Adam and Eve. All they needed to do was listen to God and avoid that ONE tree, which they failed to do.

Bring it to today. Would God really create someone that would bring about these problems we see today as a test? Absolutely not. Satan is not some creation God made, but rather was once a perfect angel who decided that he wanted something that didn't belong to him, and he is the reason he is what he is today.
 
So you would rather live in a world where people suffer and die on a regular basis from wars, starvation, diseases and natural disaters? In a world where crime and violence is everywhere? That's better than living in a perfect world forever? Strange to say the least.

I don't know about you, but it gets boring after a while in eternity. I'm a Christian and all, but I don't see the benefit of boring yourself to death living in a perfect world for eons and eons.
 
To answer the orginal question, no he's not a good creation. Satan wasn't always Satan. However, when the first human couple was created, He saw all the worship God was receiving and wanted it. So this perfect angel used a serpent to decieve Eve into believing that if she ate the fruit, she could be like God and not need him anymore. (This happens to be the first lie). She ate it and gave some to her husband. God told them the consequences would be death if they ate from the tree, and that's what happened. They were no longer perfect, and so when they had kids, they weren't perfect either.

When doing Bible criticism, do not assume what cannot be proved with reasonable certainty.

Like, for instance, the tale of Satan somehow tempting the serpent to tempt Eve to tempt Adam to eat the fruit giving both of them knowledge of good and evil. It is not mentioned anywhere on any biblical text, period. Stop spinning stuff where stuff don't exist.
 
Satan is not some creation God made, but rather was once a perfect angel who decided that he wanted something that didn't belong to him, and he is the reason he is what he is today.

And isn't an angel created by God?

And where is it said or even implied Satan was once an angel?
 
I don't know about you, but it gets boring after a while in eternity. I'm a Christian and all, but I don't see the benefit of boring yourself to death living in a perfect world for eons and eons.

So tell me what it was like living forever in a perfect world. Oh wait, you haven't? Didn't think so.

A common misconception is that it will be boring living forever. What makes you think we will be nothing forever? Do you have any idea what it will be like to have perfect health, actually using our brains to the fullest? There is still so much we don't know, but will be able to learn when we live forever. I would tthink living forever as perfect humans would be a better option that the way things are now.

When doing Bible criticism, do not assume what cannot be proved with reasonable certainty.

Like, for instance, the tale of Satan somehow tempting the serpent to tempt Eve to tempt Adam to eat the fruit giving both of them knowledge of good and evil. It is not mentioned anywhere on any biblical text, period. Stop spinning stuff where stuff don't exist.

Haha, wow. Do you actually read anything? First off, I never said Satan tempted a serpent, I said Satan used a serpent to tempt Eve.
Now, get your bible out, and read the account of Genesis 3:1-5. Serpents don't talk by themselves. Nowhere else in the bible do you read of an animal talking, outside of God opening the mouth of a donkey Ba'laam was riding found at Numbers 22. So someone had to make that serpent talk.

And notice Genesis 3:4. There is where the first lie was ever recorded. Now turn to John 8:44. Jesus described Satan as a liar and "the father of the lie".

See how a little effort into studying the bible can connect the dots there? So, yea, no assumptions here.

And isn't an angel created by God?

And where is it said or even implied Satan was once an angel?

Again, if you paid attention, I said God did not create Satan, as in the evil spirit he is today. He created the angel, that ended up becoming Satan. Again, study of the scriptures will help you understand this point.

Deuteronomy 32:4 says that God is perfect in his activity. You would agree God is perfect and everything he does is perfect.ould a loving God, who is perfect inevrything he does, make a mistake or knowingly create an evil spirit like Satan? Doesn't make too much sense. Looking at other scriptures such as Joshua 24:15 show us that created his intelligent creatures with free will. The demons are a perfect example. The bible clearly tells us that they were once perfect angels who chose to side with Satan. With all this information, its not hard to understand that Satan was once a perfect angel who chose to go against God, not created evil by God.
 
I believe the devil is the ultimate tempter. He is completely against god, in every single way. I see your point though. The devil strays people off the path of righteousness or purity as a statement to god. That he can go against god's will. That is how i see the devil, as a being trying to prove a point and win a battle against the almighty lord.
 
I personally believe that the devil is not a "good" creation. In Christianity, God created everything and thus that means He created the devil too. The fact that God created him doesn't make him good. There are evil things out there and God created everything, as in all the good things AND all the evil things. The devil is constantly trying to get people to do bad things so that they will not make it into heaven when they die. Now, no human being could possibly know whether God created the devil as part of a test for us or not. That's something we'd have to ask about when we are in the afterlife. The devil is not doing God's work because God loves all of us unconditionally and He wants us to get into heaven, rather than end up down where the devil is. An argument could truthfully be made for either side of this argument whether the devil is helping God test us in this life or not, but it's something we will never know in this life. It's an interesting thing to discuss though. The way I see it, even though God created the devil, that doesn't make the devil a "good" creation due to the fact that the devil is trying to separate people from God when they do bad things that he tempts us to do. You might or might not agree with what I said, but that is just my personal belief.
 
To clear confusion yes the Devil was once an Angel by the name of Lucifer who was the Number 1 Angel In Heaven at that time. Once he was sent down to hell he remained the same beautiful Angel he was on the outside, just with a heart of evil. It's just writers today some for their ignorance and some for their personification want to make Satan seem like a dragon or devil, also if you want to know more about the Devil being a good creation or not read Revelation.Even though The Devil is an advesary of God I do believe that he still answers to God and is still a servant given in the New Testament, Jesus commanded Demons (exorcism)
 
To People's Champ:

I will only say that I erred in putting too much faith in hyperbole in a discussion where I put emphasis on preciseness (i. e. 'Satan tempting a serpent to tempt Eve to tempt Adam').

However, my point stands: nowhere in the Bible does it state that Satan was once an angel, or that his army of demons were fallen angels, unless you stretch Isaiah's words on the morning star to any actual effect.
 
There is no good in Satan. NONE. Satan's entire purpose is to cause as many people to suffer along side him as possible. There is no altruism, no doing God's work to separate the faithful from the faithless, Satan is only interested in causing pain and suffering.

I can see the argument that Satan is a necessary creation, that if God created mankind with freewill that there has to be a "side" other than God's. If there was no evil to act as a foil to God's good, could you really claim we have free will to choose or reject God?

However, whether or not Satan is necessary for free will doesn't mean that he is ultimately a force for good. Satan doesn't care about you. Never has, never will. Satan's entire motivation is "If I have to suffer through an eternity of hell, I am gonna take as many of you down with me as I can". Satan doesn't reward people for rejecting God, they undergo the torments of hell too. Satan is entirely a selfish being, who is only spreading the suffering, so he doesn't have to endure it alone.
 
Suibon said- However, my point stands: nowhere in the Bible does it state that Satan was once an angel, or that his army of demons were fallen angels, unless you stretch Isaiah's words on the morning star to any actual effect.

Revelations

12:7 Then war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But the dragon was not strong enough to prevail, so there was no longer any place left in heaven for him and his angels. 9 So that huge dragon – the ancient serpent, the one called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world – was thrown down to the earth, and his angels along with him.

Also, Venus is the Morning Star and the latin name for Venus is Lucifer. The name derives from the Latin term lucem ferre, bringer, or bearer, of light.
 
So in the interest of an open-ended post, I'll make this short.

Based on all the literature and philosophy you know about the Christian devil, and what scripture says about literature, do you think it's possible that the devil, if everything recorded about his existence, is a creature of good, rather than evil?

From what I understand, Satan/Lucifer/the Devil roams around Earth, persuading people to sin and "turn to evil." If life is nothing more than a test for God, is the devil not doing God's work and therefore a "good" creature?

Please bring out all the obscure literature of the devil; I'm legitimately interested.

The devil, Lucifer, is an angel created by God and just like all of us, Angels have free will as well. Lucifer was neither good nor evil when he was created. He chose to disobey God just like all of us have that option now. Lucifer became evil once his pride got in the way and thought he knew better than God himself. Now he's trying his hardest to bring as many souls to Hell with him as possible because he knows his time is short. You ever heard pride comes before the fall? That is satan in a nutshell.
 
From a layman's perspective, I don't think that an entity which in effect condemns someone to eternal damnation can be classified as an inherently 'good' thing. However, as you alluded to in the opening post and speaking in a broad, general way; one could argue that the Devil is persuading people to act in the name of God by offering an 'evil' alternative to heaven, and therefore giving people an incentive to act in the name of God in order to be accepted into heaven.

But no, in my opinion a creature that causes so much pain in order to get people to side with him can not be described as a good thing.
 
most of the devil being a fallen angel story comes not from the Bible, but from Paradise Lost, by the English poet John Milton. It has become a popular origin story for the devil, but often incorrectly treated as gospel truth.
 
Revelations

12:7 Then war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But the dragon was not strong enough to prevail, so there was no longer any place left in heaven for him and his angels. 9 So that huge dragon – the ancient serpent, the one called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world – was thrown down to the earth, and his angels along with him.

Also, Venus is the Morning Star and the latin name for Venus is Lucifer. The name derives from the Latin term lucem ferre, bringer, or bearer, of light.

Last thing first.

The particular passage where Isaiah mentions the fall of the morning star is a reference to a particular Babylonian monarch, not Satan. Where you got the reference to Venus being Lucifer I do not know.

As for your particular quote, I have my reservations about the book of Revelation (mainly due the lunatic intensity of the visions given, etc.) but I concede anyway, even if the particular thought behind the quote will not be seen in the Old Testament.
 
Where in the Old Testament does it say the snake in the Garden Of Eve is Satan? Just because an antagonist tempts the protagonist in literature doesn't make them The Antagonist. And there are old documents that hint that the snake wasn't The Devil at all, but an even more confusing symbolism for Adam's first wife or so.

Now as for Satan being the "good" creation of God, no. He may perform certain duties to make everything orderly with Heaven and Hell, but that's the universal code for Christianity. Just because the bad guy does something that helps the good guy, doesn't mean in turn the bad isn't so bad. God benefits. That is all.

Satan rebelled against God, and God, being omnicent, made even that work for him. I may not be a believer, but I can see that.
 
Christianity is a ripoff of the Egyptians worship of the Sun and the Pagan tribal sky gods, so theology needs to be taken with a grain of salt. I'd say the devil is a creation of man, just like the "one true God" is a creation of man.
 
TECHNICALLY, if you take things like all mindless Christians do, technically God ultimately controls everything. Everything is God's doing. Any achievement is something to thank him for, right? So, technically there is no such thing as free will, only the idea of such. So technically, the Devil/Satan would only be an extension of God. God controls anything and everything, an inifinite presence that exists in all time at once. So, in closing, Satan isn't good or evil. He's merely another puppet of the Lord himself.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
174,847
Messages
3,300,827
Members
21,726
Latest member
chrisxenforo
Back
Top