Is Roy Nelson..

[Y4J]

You know, I can't WAIT for Roy Nelson vs JDS. However, I was just watching the trailer for it and everyone says that Roy Nelson has proved that he's legit.

But has he..? At least yet?

Now I really like Roy.. The dude is tough.. But who has he fought? The Skyscrapper? Brandon Schaub (Sorry for spelling) and in his career, he hasn't beaten anyone highly credible.

The thing is, I really think there really isn't anyone to face JDS right now and with both him and Roy on a roll, that's probably how the fight got put together.. So in a way, I believe Roy is pretty lucky that he's on a roll to face someone like JDS.

Realistically, I thought it would be Roy and Kongo. Or even Roy and Mir..

This is Roy's chance to PROVE that he can put it down. If he loses to JDS, then where does it put him?

If JDS loses, he can easily fight the loser of Mir and Big Nog and still be a contender.

I may be wrong. If Roy wins, then Roy is legit. But the way people say he is, I don't believe it until he beats someone who is a legit contender.

 

[jmt225]

Dude, even if Roy Nelson defeats JDS... he'll still have something to prove.

The out of shape thing just turns people off, and I don't think people will start buying into him until he beats a name like Brock Lesnar (which, if everything works out and those two fight each other for the HW Belt... I think that'll end up being the biggest payday in the UFC's history); only then will people start admitting how good he is.

Besides, in all honesty... there's no reason to believe he's truly one of the best Heavyweights in the World at this point. If he beats JDS, then okay... that's when I'll be a firm believer. But right now... none of Nelson's wins truly impress me. He got his ass kicked against Arlovski (though Nelson did get kind of screwed in that fight), and he was losing the stand-up battler against Kimbo Slice in their fight before taking it to the ground and putting him away. Past that he beat a guy who had literally no stand-up, knocked-out Brandon Schaub (who's still unproven), and beat Stefan Struve, which isn't anything to brag about.

With all that said, there's no denying that Nelson is SUPERB on the ground and has a shit load of power in his hands. With that combination, he's a threat against ANYONE in the Heavyweight Division. However, until he starts beating really good fighters, people, including myself, won't start to buy into his hype.

 

[Minor League Brian]

I think the fact he's just winning has proven he's legit. You can't sleep on him and during the Ultimate Fighter most random's simply thought he'd get rocked in no time. The dude looks like a regular person and he's running through anyone they've put him up against. You can't just look down on him because of his size and he IS winning. He's beaten Mir in a BJJ contest I do believe.

Even then, if he loses to JDS I don't see a problem with it. Others might but JDS has the potential to be the "future" so...no shame in losing to the future. I think he'll be a contender very soon.

The real question oughta be how would JDS' reputation fair if he lost?

 

[Turd Ferguson]

I think that Nelson has gotten such a huge push as a legitimate threat in the UFC's Heavyweight Division because he has been nothing short of impressive since coming into the UFC. From the start on TUF, he showed that he was the heavy favorite. He dominated on the show, taking out Kimbo Slice, Justin Wren, and James McSweeney, before taking out Brendan Schaub in the finals. His knockout of Stefan Struve was also extremely impressive and showed that he should be taken seriously as the threat that he is.

Also, he's the former IFL Champion. He was largely dominant there. And he has quickly risen up the ranks as well, whereas mostly every other heavyweight is on a cold streak. I mean, who else was available to challenge Dos Santos, as a last fight to get him over the hump as being #1 Contender? Mir was too busy failing at cutting down at Light Heavyweight, and he's lost two of his last three anyway. Nogueira got knocked out by Velasquez, and Dos Santos is Nogueira's protege in the first place. The top of the Heavyweight Division right now is Lesnar, Velasquez, Carwin, Dos Santos, Nelson, Mir, and Nogueira.

Big Country is a very big threat to Dos Santos here. There are still questions about how Dos Santos is off his back. Taking on a talent like Roy Nelson, who is certainly going to be looking for the crucifix, is going to help answer those questions. He's also on a major hot streak, as is Dos Santos. If JDS wins, then that's the last feather in his cap that he needs to be the rightful #1 Contender. If Nelson wins, then he proves that he is not a fluke at all, that he really is a good fighter despite his appearance, and that we're a step away from the most comical title match of all time, with Lesnar vs. Nelson. It's actually why that as much as I've become a fan of JDS, that I want Nelson to win.

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

I think that, beyond that, Nelson has proven that he can hang in there with people that he was, largely, counted out against. If you watch the fight between him and Arlovski, Nelson was dominating that fight and the ref, in my opinion, prematurely stood them up as Nelson was working for a finish he would have most certainly gotten against Glass Joe. I, among other people, feel that he actually beat Ben Rothwell in their IFL fight. I had the fortunate privilege of watching it "live" on TV, as well as a replay some time later, my opinion has not changed...Nelson won that fight. Were they to have a rematch, I firmly believe that Nelson would avenge that loss.

Additionally, and before people click "quote" or "reply" please read my whole post, there's questions surrounding JDS' quality of opponent. Cro Cop has been JUST above average since joining the UFC. He's not nearly the same fighter that won the Open Weight Grand Prix in Pride. Werdum is a great feather in JDS' cap NOW, but Werdum as an MMA artist is still something that's up in the air. Werdum is, without question, probably the best BJJ player at HW, however, is he a great MMA artist? I have to say no. Werdum did what he SHOULD have done against Fedor on the ground, submitted him. Werdum is NOT the better MMA fighter. I look at it like this, Maia is a GREAT BJJ expert, but he's not a great MMA fighter. Like all expert BJJ practitioners, they tend to lack in other areas of the fight game. People on Werdum's level of BJJ haven't had the time to practice other facets of the game as much as they have their BJJ. It doesn't mean they're not a tough SOB, it just means they aren't as well rounded in the overall fight game.

Gonzaga has really been on a tailslide since his KO of Cro Cop. Matter of factly, outside of Cro Cop (at the time), Gonzaga hasn't had a quality win in the UFC. I don't know that you can couple Gonzaga, Cro Cop, and Werdum and say that JDS is light years ahead of Roy Nelson in terms of the HW title picture. His 3 biggest wins have come over opponents with a combined 13-9 record in the UFC. It's not like he's fighting the elite, either.

I understand the UPSIDE to someone like JDS, people see his 11-1 record couple with his devastating KO's and think that Nelson might not belong there with him, but I assure you that he does. Nelson might be more dangerous now than he ever has been. He's got his Renzo Gracie black belt and has been diligently working on his boxing. Nelson may not look the part, but to be honest, I don't think he looks any worse than Christian Wellisch or Chris Tuchscherer. He does, however, have much more skill than them.

 

[Dressler]

The curious case of Roy Nelson is fun, he gets a big test in facing Dos Santos, this is his chance to prove hes not just some Big Fat guy in the UFC that can knock people out, if he can be Dos Santos, I think it can do a lot of good for his career as most people believe Dos Santos could be next in line if Lesnar wins and Dos Santos wins. But if Nelson wins, were does he go from there?

I think if Nelson beats Dos Santos he will get a match with someone like Mir, Big Nog or hell, even a guy like Carwin or Velasquez (if he loses). And once that happens who knows, if Nelson can win his next two fights (Dos Santos and TBA) then he gets a Title Shot vs Lesnar or whoever is the Champ at that point. The thing with Nelson is you cant really market him.

Nelson is not a Lesnar nor is he a Carwin or Velasquez, he ain't even a Mir, the guy looks like a out of shape beer belly guy who tail gates every Sunday to watch his favorite Football Team but can throw a punch because of his size, so how do you market that? You look at guys like Lesnar, great on the stick, great size, everyone loves to hate him, Nelson, I don't think people get that same feeling. Now does that mean the guy isn't good? No, hes a good fighter, but I find it hard to market the guy as a legit contender to Lesnar... Ever.

Nelson to me, even though I said if he wins two in row from now on will get a Title Shot, Nelson is a guy who is going to be a stepping stone for other guys to beat to be considered a Main guy.

 

[Via Armbar]

I like Nelson. He's an entertaining fella and has shown so far that he a least belongs in the UFC. With that being said, I don't believe he has what it takes to be in top 3 in UFC's heavyweight division. Not that it's an amazingly stacked division, but the improvements and marketability it has now compared to then is very obvious. There are more contenders and prospects in the division now more than ever and the guys at the top are going to have to work harder to stay there. I firmly believe that guys like Cain, Carwin, Lesnar and Dos Santos would get the better of Nelson nine out of ten times. He is a formidable opponent but not a real contender until he beats Dos Santos.

The biggest problem isn't with his cardio or stand up, it's with his biggest asset. Follow me here: he has a great ground game and everyone knows that. He has submitted wrestlers in the past. Difference in the UFC is that these are different breeds of wrestlers. They are bigger than anyone he has faced and probably stronger. Lesnar controlled Mir on the ground and nullify his bjj. There is a difference of course in Mir and Nelson's style of grappling; Mir works from inside the guard very well and Nelson like to change position more often and work angles. Nelson has even beat Mir in a grappling match before. Still, I have to think the powerful wrestlers like Lesnar, Cain and maybe even Carwin could control his movement on the ground and work some ground and pound.

He isn't anyone to overlook for sure. Whether or not he can/will be Dos Santos is yet to be seen. I'm favoring Dos Santos rather heavily but that doesn't mean that anyone should count Nelson out. We haven't seen enough of Cigano on his back. If Nelson wins, it will be by submission. If he could finish the other top heavyweights in similar fashion...I doubt it. Count on seeing Dos Santos fighting for the title sometime next year.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

I'm with Armbar here, and not just because I can't stand "Big Country." I would not call any of Nelson's win's thus far terribly significant. Part of his name comes from the fact that he was watched peripherally by fans who were tuning in to TUF to watch Kimbo Slice. Roy was lucky enough / good enough to a) be the guy who drew to fight and went on to beat Kimbo, and b) win the whole thing.

On the other hand, I find JDS to be under rated, and I think he's certainly a top-flight contender right now. The HW division is top-heavy, with Lesnar, Carwin, Velasquez, JDS, Gonzaga, and then everyone else. If Nelson hangs around, it's little more than a 6-guy division unless Couture ever has a seizure and decides to move up in weight again. Not likely.

For my money, I think JDS will hang with Nelson long enough to gas him. Give me JDS in a 2nd round TKO - ref stoppage due to strikes.

 

[Via Armbar]

On the other hand, I find JDS to be under rated, and I think he's certainly a top-flight contender right now. The HW division is top-heavy, with Lesnar, Carwin, Velasquez, JDS, Gonzaga, and then everyone else. If Nelson hangs around, it's little more than a 6-guy division unless Couture ever has a seizure and decides to move up in weight again. Not likely.

The only name that I don't think fits in there is Gonzaga. Always entertaining but he has failed every time he was given the chance to really shoot up the ladder. The win over Mirko got him his first, and probably only, title shot against Randy and was thoroughly beaten. Just because he most likely will never get another title shot doesn't mean he's useless. In fact, he is just what the division needs; a gatekeeper. Ever lighter division has a number of gatekeepers who keep the contenders on their toes. LHW had Jardine, MW had guys like Sonnen Quarry and so on. Heavyweight never really had guys like that until now. Guys like Gonzaga, Kongo and now probably Nelson are going to be big tests for prospects in the future. I can honestly see Mir be grouped with them as well eventually. So it's not a bad thing if Nelson loses.

For my money, I think JDS will hang with Nelson long enough to gas him. Give me JDS in a 2nd round TKO - ref stoppage due to strikes.

Big Country has a surprisingly large gas tank actually. He isn't GSP, but for his body shape and all, he can definitely hang. Still, if Dos Santos can work a clinch (which we haven't really seen yet) he runs the possibility of gassing himself actually by pushing Nelsons size. It's a very interesting fight indeed, especially when you consider things like cardio and the clinch game.

 

[gd]

Roy is my boy. At a time when I know less and less about current UFC fighters, mostly due to myself not keeping up, Roy is someone I know about. Mostly through watching the Kimbo season of TUF and partly from that one company he was in beforehand.

I don't think anyone is scared of him at the moment, more do they really respect him. I don't know who he's beaten other than, uhh, that tall guy, and Shaub. Beating JDS would mean something though and people would have to take him seriously. I, for one, hope that he continues the current winning streak as Lesnar/Nelson would be something to watch.

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

Perhaps someone can explain to me why people think JDS is ready for a title shot while Roy is not. Who has JDS beaten that makes this a bad fight? I've already illustrated that JDS' 3 biggest wins are, in fact, not that big. I think this is a perfect number 1 contenders match.

The UFC doesn't have any HW's right now, outside of these two, that they can put in there with the winner of Lesnar and Velasqeuz. JDS vs Roy Nelson for a shot at the title makes the most sense. Even though people seem to think this is a really stacked HW division, it's actually a very thin division. There's a lot of promising young fighters, but there's not a lot of guys who have the ability to hang with the top 3 in the HW division.

We don't know enough about Cigano to make a claim that he's as a big of a threat to Lesnar's belt as Velasquez and Carwin.