Best NHL Goaltender of All-Time: Brodeur or Roy?

[It's Damn Real!]

http://www.denverpost.com/lunchspec...-best-goalie-ever-nah-try?_requestid=11952621

In the head-to-head matchup between former Avalanche and Canadiens goalie Roy and Brodeur, the tally remains: four Cups for Roy, three for Brodeur. The actual, head-to-head matchup between Roy and Brodeur in a Stanley Cup Finals will always remain: Roy 1, Brodeur 0. Colorado's seven-game series victory over New Jersey in 2001 — when Roy was 35 and Brodeur 29 — made that the case.

Now, the head-to-head Cup Finals score is powerful argument enough that Roy was better. But here are a couple even more powerful reasons:

• Roy remains the only player in NHL history to win Conn Smythe Trophies in three different decades: 1986 and '93 with Montreal, and 2001 with the Avs. Brodeur has never won a Conn Smythe.

Winning the playoff MVP three times in a span of 15 years not only showed Roy's excellence over a long period, but it also showed how he was able to adapt from different eras, when the style of play — and the equipment — changed significantly.

• Indeed, when Roy broke in as a rookie in Montreal, goalie pads were still made of water-absorbing material that made quick movements all but impossible as a game wore on. Goalie equipment wasn't as big when Roy first played either. When Brodeur came into the league, in 1993, the evolution in better, bigger equipment was starting.
Roy was a beneficiary of that, too, but in those early years he was still winning Cups with two waterlogged mattresses strapped to his legs.

• Roy did not invent the butterfly technique in goaltending. Glenn Hall did that. But Roy evolved it and perfected it. He, essentially, changed the game with how the position was played.

Brodeur's fans will throw the number 656 at you, the number of career regular-season wins. That's tops of all time, and he broke Roy's record of 551 a while ago. But Brodeur also has benefited from post-lockout rules that gave him wins from a shootout — in games that once would have finished as ties. Roy never had the chance for shootout wins, retiring in 2003.

But as long as we're talking win totals, let's mention a couple: 151 to 111. The 151 are Roy's all-time playoff wins, the 111 belonging to Brodeur. Brodeur's career playoff record is 111-90, to Roy's 151-94.

If we're talking career saves percentages, they are close enough (.913-.910 for Brodeur) to be fairly insignificant. Brodeur does have a whopping edge in shutouts (119-66).

But what of the shutout totals of the two goalies in their playoff careers? It's 24-23 Brodeur — not such a whopping disparity when the games got bigger, eh?

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Dater makes a fantastic case for Roy, who IMO is the better of the two, namely because of the post-season success. While Brodeur is certainly one of the single most important names in NHL history, Roy I feel is often overlooked for reasons I can't put my finger on. Anyone who was lucky enough to have watched him play knew how special a player he truly was, though his attitude sure did get him in hot water fairly often.

So what do you think? Brodeur or Roy? Who's the best of all-time?

 

[Natural Selection]

Your bias as a Rangers fan is staggering here. I hope nothing else on your wish list comes true.

 

[Davi323]

Any GOAT NHL goalies list that doesn't include Terry Sawchuk is suspect. I refuse to believe tht the only two choices are Patty Wah and Brodeur. In the words of Cris Carter, C'MON, MAN!

You give me, as a Red Wings fan, an impossible choice. Patty Wah is a better goalie than Brodeur, so I can't choose Marty. But, as a Red Wings fan, and also because he is one of the biggest pussy crybabies in NHL history who got his ass kicked by two different Wings goalies, I can't pick Patty Wah either. Fuck him.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Your bias as a Rangers fan is staggering here. I hope nothing else on your wish list comes true.

...and this spam comment is your argument for or against Roy/Brodeur as the greatest goaltender of all-time? Who gives a shit about my Ranger bias. Of course I have a bias. Fan is short for fanatic, genius. Why the hell would I wish success for my enemies?

Fact is, when you look at Brodeur/Roy, it all comes down to three things:

1. Cups — Roy edges out Brodeur (4 to 3)
2. Playoff success — Roy edges out Brodeur (151 to 111)
3. Wins — Brodeur edges out Roy (656 to 551)

Ergo, Roy is the better of the two, by a close margin.

Any GOAT NHL goalies list that doesn't include Terry Sawchuk is suspect. I refuse to believe tht the only two choices are Patty Wah and Brodeur. In the words of Cris Carter, C'MON, MAN!

You give me, as a Red Wings fan, an impossible choice. Patty Wah is a better goalie than Brodeur, so I can't choose Marty. But, as a Red Wings fan, and also because he is one of the biggest pussy crybabies in NHL history who got his ass kicked by two different Wings goalies, I can't pick Patty Wah either. Fuck him.

LOL. And Brodeur isn't reading/studying from that same manual?

 

[Poop Master Flex]

As much as I hate the guy Patrick Roy is the greatest goaltender I've ever seen. I'm a Red Wings fan and its in my blood to hate the guy. I don't hate Brodeur but I've always considered Roy the better goaltender even though you can make an argument for both.

The man perfected the butterfly style of goaltending and in his first year of being a starter led the Canadien's to a Stanley Cup against a superior Calgary Flame's team and winning the Conn Smythe trophy. I don't recall Brodeur ever leading his team against a superior team to the Stanley Cup. In 2000 and '03 they were the best team and in '95 I would consider Scott Stevens the person who led the Devils over a unbelievable Red Wings team that had my personal favorite goalie ever Mike Vernon in net.

One thing to remember in all of Brodeur's cup wins is although he played tremendous in all of the runs he had he always had a tremendous defense in front of him led by one of the all time great defensemen in Scott Stevens and Stevens always made Brodeur's job that much easier. Not saying Roy didn't have a great defense because he did, but the Devil's defense during those years is legendary and they dominated because of their defense.

It's hard to argue credentials because they are so close but in the clutch (as in playoff time) Roy was simply better than Brodeur and Brodeur was a great playoff goaltender. If there was 1 goaltender you would want on your side when it came playoff time that goaltender would be Patrick Roy, plain and simple. Brodeur may have more wins than Roy, but he doesn't have more wins and accolades when it counts the most.

For the record I think Brodeur is a close second but he isn't as good as Roy.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

As much as I hate the guy Patrick Roy is the greatest goaltender I've ever seen. I'm a Red Wings fan and its in my blood to hate the guy. I don't hate Brodeur but I've always considered Roy the better goaltender even though you can make an argument for both.

The man perfected the butterfly style of goaltending and in his first year of being a starter led the Canadien's to a Stanley Cup against a superior Calgary Flame's team and winning the Conn Smythe trophy. I don't recall Brodeur ever leading his team against a superior team to the Stanley Cup. In 2000 and '03 they were the best team and in '95 I would consider Scott Stevens the person who led the Devils over a unbelievable Red Wings team that had my personal favorite goalie ever Mike Vernon in net.

One thing to remember in all of Brodeur's cup wins is although he played tremendous in all of the runs he had he always had a tremendous defense in front of him led by one of the all time great defensemen in Scott Stevens and Stevens always made Brodeur's job that much easier. Not saying Roy didn't have a great defense because he did, but the Devil's defense during those years is legendary and they dominated because of their defense.

It's hard to argue credentials because they are so close but in the clutch (as in playoff time) Roy was simply better than Brodeur and Brodeur was a great playoff goaltender. If there was 1 goaltender you would want on your side when it came playoff time that goaltender would be Patrick Roy, plain and simple. Brodeur may have more wins than Roy, but he doesn't have more wins and accolades when it counts the most.

For the record I think Brodeur is a close second but he isn't as good as Roy.

Not just Stevens, either. Stevens, Niedermayer, Rafalski, Daneyko, etc.

Brodeur's wins are also inflated due to the NHL rule changes that went into effect following the lockout which eliminated ties. Roy's 551 wins were actual wins won by the team in a hockey game, not a glorified skills competition.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Not just Stevens, either. Stevens, Niedermayer, Rafalski, Daneyko, etc.

Brodeur's wins are also inflated due to the NHL rule changes that went into effect following the lockout which eliminated ties. Roy's 551 wins were actual wins won by the team in a hockey game, not a glorified skills competition.

Steven's was just the leader but as you've pointed out Brodeur had a ton of help in the defensive department, with that defense a lot of goalies could have won 3 cups. Brodeur played good in those cup wins but he was never the best player on the ice as he doesn't have 1 Conn Smythe to show for his efforts.

Not only does Brodeur have the advantage in wins because of the lockout you can also take into account the "dead puck era" from 94-95 until the lockout. Rules like the 2 line pass benefited the Devil's team greatly during those years, in particular Brodeur. The whole team was built on great defense, dumping the puck and freezing the puck which is what the era was really all about. It made the Devil's very successful but also made hockey more difficult to watch during those years. The whole league at the time was based around the type of play the Devil's were accustomed to.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Steven's was just the leader but as you've pointed out Brodeur had a ton of help in the defensive department, with that defense a lot of goalies could have won 3 cups. Brodeur played good in those cup wins but he was never the best player on the ice as he doesn't have 1 Conn Smythe to show for his efforts.

Not only does Brodeur have the advantage in wins because of the lockout you can also take into account the "dead puck era" from 94-95 until the lockout. Rules like the 2 line pass benefited the Devil's team greatly during those years, in particular Brodeur. The whole team was built on great defense, dumping the puck and freezing the puck which is what the era was really all about. It made the Devil's very successful but also made hockey more difficult to watch during those years. The whole league at the time was based around the type of play the Devil's were accustomed to.

Yup. What the Devils' managed to exploit in that era were actually largely in part, if not the sole reasons for a number of rule changes.

The trapezoid rule is nicknamed the "Brodeur rule" for a reason.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Here's an interesting twist... what about Dominik Hasek as the greatest of all-time?

Better GAA and SV% than Brodeur/Roy. 81 shutouts in nearly 500 less games than Broduer (119) and 400 less than Roy (65).

Better post season GAA and SV% than Brodeur/Roy. 14 playoff shutouts (65 games) in nearly 50 less playoff games than Broduer (24) and over 80 less than Roy (23).

In his 9 seasons with Buffalo, he won the Vezina 6 times. He didn't his first season (28 games) and his second to last there where he was injured (35 games). You could say 6 of 7 full seasons he won the Vezina while in Buffalo.

And I don't think you'd call any of those teams All Star teams, although some had some decent guys.