Is it possible to create a new face of the company when the last one is still here?

[Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.]

I am one of the people who believe that history repeats itself and sometimes, you have to look at history to see how some things are done.

Let's take a look at history.

Hulk Hogan was the face of the WWF from 1984-1993. During these 9 years other faces like Randy Savage, Ultimate Warrior and Bret Hart came to be, but none of them was able to surpass Hogan in terms of popularity AND longevity, while Hogan was around. When Hogan left, Bret Hart took over.

Bret "The Hitman" Hart was the face of the WWF from 1993-1996. At Wrestlemania 12, a man named Shawn Michaels, defeated Bret Hart in an hour-plus long Iron-Man match to win the WWF Championship. Bret Hart then took a nine-month hiatus and let HBK be "the man". If you think of it, HBK & Hart never shared the same roof as faces. Hart comes back in 1997, HBK leaves, Hart turns heel, HBK returns. Now, I know that this was mainly because their real-life rivalry, however, under the same roof and both of them being faces, HBK would never surpass Hart.

History moves forward to Stone Cold Steve Austin. Like everyone else before him, Austin became the undisputed face of the WWF after both Hart & HBK departured.
Fast forward to, The Rock. The Rock had an insane polularity back in 2000 and went on to become the #1 face in the company. However, this wouldn't be possible if Austin hadn't be injured for a year and hadn't turn heel in 2001, thus leaving The Rock alone at the top of the food chain.

After these two men's departure, WWE stayed faceless for 3 years. Then, Cena & Batista came along. Due to Batista's injuries, RAW being the main show and his overall better mic skills, John Cena surpassed Batista in terms of popularity and became the face of the WWE and remains the face for ten years and on.

A lot of wrestlers appeared during that time. Orton, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Jeff Hardy. However, none of them was able to surpass Cena and stay on top. Some of them did, like Punk back in 2012 and Hardy back in 2009, but for reasons (Heel turn, departure and other stuff), they couldn't maintain that position.

There has been talks about creating the new face of the WWE. That being Roman Reigns, Bryan, Ziggler, Ambrose..
But, is that really possible? How can they surpass Cena when Cena is still around and won't turn anytime soon? I'm not bashing Cena or suggesting a heel turn. I'm just stating facts of the past that seem to apply in every situation. Hogan had to leave, Bret and Shawn had to leave, Austin had to turn heel and then leave, The Rock had to leave. Cena is the first man to stay as the top face for so long and he isn't leaving.

They might achieve to built the next megaface, but some creative shake-ups need to happen first. Cena is still being super-protected (see NoC 2014). Yes, they can have two super-babyfaces like Austin and Rock back in 2000, but Austin had to be injured in order for that to happen. They always rush Cena back and I don't think they're willing to give him any time off in order to make room for others. An no matter how low you push him on the card, he's still the #1 guy.

So, what do you think of this? What can they do?

 

[stonecoldstunner]

You make very good points. Cena is the top face for the forseeable future. Everyone else takes a back seat. It will be like that for quite some time, maybe 5 years? Cena is in tremendous shape and shows no signs of slowing down. My guess is the next "top face" is somebody we've never heard of yet...and will be pushed to the moon when the time comes. Guys like Bryan and Ziggler will be pushing 40 by then.

 

[TheICChampion]

Holy jeez, I never really thought about it like that. But for me, it's not important who the "#1 guy in the company" is. I just want to see fresh guys in the main event scene and challenging for the WWE title. Luckily WWE has somewhat realized this at last by giving the new guys a bit of a chance. Instead of seeing just Lesnar vs. Cena again, they've gone and made this match interesting by adding a new dynamic in Seth Rollins. I know they're saying they're building toward a new #1 guy, but come on, in all likelihood all they're really trying to do is finally build up new guys to take some of the workload off of Cena. WWE really has to take a page out of their own book, because their best period in their history was the Attitude Era, and no, not because of all the raunchy, crazy stuff they were doing, it was because they had guys who they built up and who were over enough to carry the workload and keep WCW at bay if one of their top guys needed some months off (see: Stone Cold and Triple H). Granted, there was always a top guy, but in that era there was no need to panic when that top guy was gone.

 

[CrucifiedRaven]

I've thought about this a few times before as well. I honestly agree with you, I don't think another guy will successfully take the mantle until Cena disappears.

Imagine if John Cena disappeared for a year or two in 2011 during the rise of CM Punk. CM Punk was the top guy, and without Cena around he would be forced to be the undisputed babyface of the company, and he and the WWE would have both been fine. Guess who's merchandise sales would replace Cena's? CM Punk's.

I constantly hear the excuse of "well, nobody outsells Cena's merch". Well, they would if Cena wasn't there. Kids are going to buy the merch, regardless of who the top guy is. But anytime someone does outsell Cena (Punk, Bryan, and Ambrose most recently) it's only a short-term thing because Cena is still around and still shoved down the kid's throats. Let's not pretend Cena is drawing Hogan, Austin or Rock numbers here. If he disappears, whoever the next guy is will take over and the WWE won't miss a beat.

 

[L@RISANO]

I've always been in the hope that the 3 SHIELD guys are being groomed to help and then take over the workload from Cena eventually. I also found it interesting that alongwith those 3, Vince in the SCSA podcast interview also mentioned Bray Wyatt as being one who is reaching for the 'Brass Ring'. Then there is also the matter of Daniel Bryan who is still very much Super Over.


JH has said in alot of posts regarding NXT, that HHH has resisted making someone the ultimate focus of that show and has rather made sure to keep certain guys at a somewhat even keel, and that has worked well...
As TheICChampion above mentioned, the AE was also like that as there were Multiple Guys to carry the workload at different points, thus making for very interesting programming.


Hopefully with guys like Reigns, Rollins, Ambrose, Wyatt and also, Daniel Bryan in the mix to join Cena and Orton. Plus, guys like Ryback, Barrett and Ziggler also getting over with fans... we might well see a more diverse Main Event scene this time next year, which would hopefully mean more quality programming than there is at this time.

 

[FromGlasgow]

Ive said it before I can't see the hurry and obsession with finding the next John Cena, Cena is only 37 years old one of the names you mentioned Bret Hart didn't win his first world title untill he was about 36 years old with Steve Austin being about 35 years old for his first and Ric Flair was 51 years old when he won his last world title, I get the feeling if it was up to the majority of the IWC wrestlers would all be retired by about age 25.

 

[mlp420]

Rock didn't need Austin to get hurt before he was a mega face. He exploded in early 99 after his face turn, which was 6 months before Austin left. Rock and Mick Foley were right up there with Austin popularity wise and all three of them were hot at the same time. That's why ratings were sky high that year.

The current storyline is actually similar to what was going on in '99-2000. A huge heel stable with multiple babyfaces required to take it on at once. It's ideal for having multiple guys share the spotlight. Cena's presence isn't stopping anybody from getting where they need to get popularity wise.

Subtract Cena and WWE could have a redux of the Lex Luger, Bret Hart, Diesel, Shawn Michaels situation from the mid 90s where they didn't have that next guy and struggle a bit.

 

[kadroan]

I am one of the people who believe that history repeats itself and sometimes, you have to look at history to see how some things are done.

Let's take a look at history.

Hulk Hogan was the face of the WWF from 1984-1993. During these 9 years other faces like Randy Savage, Ultimate Warrior and Bret Hart came to be, but none of them was able to surpass Hogan in terms of popularity AND longevity, while Hogan was around. When Hogan left, Bret Hart took over.

Bret "The Hitman" Hart was the face of the WWF from 1993-1996. At Wrestlemania 12, a man named Shawn Michaels, defeated Bret Hart in an hour-plus long Iron-Man match to win the WWF Championship. Bret Hart then took a nine-month hiatus and let HBK be "the man". If you think of it, HBK & Hart never shared the same roof as faces. Hart comes back in 1997, HBK leaves, Hart turns heel, HBK returns. Now, I know that this was mainly because their real-life rivalry, however, under the same roof and both of them being faces, HBK would never surpass Hart.

History moves forward to Stone Cold Steve Austin. Like everyone else before him, Austin became the undisputed face of the WWF after both Hart & HBK departured.
Fast forward to, The Rock. The Rock had an insane polularity back in 2000 and went on to become the #1 face in the company. However, this wouldn't be possible if Austin hadn't be injured for a year and hadn't turn heel in 2001, thus leaving The Rock alone at the top of the food chain.

After these two men's departure, WWE stayed faceless for 3 years. Then, Cena & Batista came along. Due to Batista's injuries, RAW being the main show and his overall better mic skills, John Cena surpassed Batista in terms of popularity and became the face of the WWE and remains the face for ten years and on.

A lot of wrestlers appeared during that time. Orton, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Jeff Hardy. However, none of them was able to surpass Cena and stay on top. Some of them did, like Punk back in 2012 and Hardy back in 2009, but for reasons (Heel turn, departure and other stuff), they couldn't maintain that position.

There has been talks about creating the new face of the WWE. That being Roman Reigns, Bryan, Ziggler, Ambrose..
But, is that really possible? How can they surpass Cena when Cena is still around and won't turn anytime soon? I'm not bashing Cena or suggesting a heel turn. I'm just stating facts of the past that seem to apply in every situation. Hogan had to leave, Bret and Shawn had to leave, Austin had to turn heel and then leave, The Rock had to leave. Cena is the first man to stay as the top face for so long and he isn't leaving.

They might achieve to built the next megaface, but some creative shake-ups need to happen first. Cena is still being super-protected (see NoC 2014). Yes, they can have two super-babyfaces like Austin and Rock back in 2000, but Austin had to be injured in order for that to happen. They always rush Cena back and I don't think they're willing to give him any time off in order to make room for others. An no matter how low you push him on the card, he's still the #1 guy.

So, what do you think of this? What can they do?

I think they could phase Cena completely out of the title hunt like they did with Shawn Michaels in his last few years in the WWE, having him still in big matches but not for the title. Meanwhile, they could have Reigns or whoever they decide to be the new face of the WWE constantly chase the title/hold the title like Cena did for the past decade.

 

[Navi]

I think they could phase Cena completely out of the title hunt like they did with Shawn Michaels in his last few years in the WWE, having him still in big matches but not for the title. Meanwhile, they could have Reigns or whoever they decide to be the new face of the WWE constantly chase the title/hold the title like Cena did for the past decade.

That's what I think should happen as well, get Cena out of the title picture and let someone else take over the reigns. No pun intended. Whether it be Bryan, Ziggler, Ambrose or Rollins, Cena has to get out of the main event picture.

The only problem there is Cena is the go to guy. Vince will always pick him over anyone else if it looks like he has too, and in his mind he has too a lot, as we've seen over the last 10 years.

No one else on the roster will get anywhere while Cena is still there, he will always be considered the top of the food chain. And right now you have guys like the aforementioned Bryan and company waiting patiently. Cena though still has a few years left in him. The best fans can hope for is that while we're all waiting, the WWE can start to seriously build up new talent. That way when Cena does go part time, there will be a couple ready to take that spot.

I'm kind of hoping that it's not going to take forever, because while Cena isn't getting any younger, neither are the other guys. It would be nice to see Daniel Bryan, Dean Ambrose or Seth Rollins have a good few years on the top as well. They are still relatively young, but older than Cena was when he first started out.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I don't necessarily see it as creating a new "face" while the current one is still around so much as getting the one picked to be the new "face" ready for the spot when the time is right.

IF Roman Reigns is the one Vince hopes to be the new "face" of WWE, then Reigns needs a lot more time and work before he's ready. IF Reigns is able to develop to the point where he's able to step into Cena's shoes, my opinion is that he has a much better shot of being accepted in that role if his character is generally more of himself instead of essentially being John Cena reincarnated as a member of the Anoa'i family with long hair and a goatee.

 

[Mustang Sally]

I don't necessarily see it as creating a new "face" while the current one is still around so much as getting the one picked to be the new "face" ready for the spot when the time is right.

That.

Remember, no one......except possibly Internet folks like us......takes polls to designate who the #1 guy in the company is. It isn't necessary; when a Hogan, Austin, Rock come along, there's no practical purpose in trying to quantify their standing.....it's obvious to fans and to WWE management.

And as much "hate" as is generated toward Cena, the other guys who were previously #1 saw the same thing. I remember Hogan being criticized for "doing the same routine all the time, having everything shifted in his favor, never losing, never creating opportunities for others, etc"........Sound familiar?

No one should think Cena was the first one to overcome seemingly impossible odds to conquer everyone and everything......all these other guys did it, too. It's the nature of the beast; the way things are done when you've got a guy who's clearly #1 in the company.

That said, when Austin was the clear #1, the Rock was right there, creating his own bid for #1 when Austin abdicated his "throne," which wound up happening. I have no idea whether Rock made it his goal to be named #1.....in fact, I kind of doubt it since Vince McMahon no doubt recognized Rock's work and growing influence; I'm sure he rewarded Rock accordingly.

So yes, go on and look to "create" the new #1, regardless of what Cena is doing. I'm sure he's realistic enough to not be threatened by the prospect ......and while some folks on this forum call him selfish, I see him helping get over the very people who might one day take his mantle.

Or do you want to argue he hasn't been helping in the development of Seth Rollins as a star.....as he did for Bray Wyatt, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan......and plenty of others.

But this post isn't to praise Cena, it's to point out that yes, it's possible to build the next #1 while Cena is still the man. That's the point; they'll build the guy, but it's certainly possible he won't actually be thought of as #1 until Cena is good and ready to leave.

 

[L@RISANO]

That.

Remember, no one......except possibly Internet folks like us......takes polls to designate who the #1 guy in the company is. It isn't necessary; when a Hogan, Austin, Rock come along, there's no practical purpose in trying to quantify their standing.....it's obvious to fans and to WWE management.

And as much "hate" as is generated toward Cena, the other guys who were previously #1 saw the same thing. I remember Hogan being criticized for "doing the same routine all the time, having everything shifted in his favor, never losing, never creating opportunities for others, etc"........Sound familiar?

No one should think Cena was the first one to overcome seemingly impossible odds to conquer everyone and everything......all these other guys did it, too. It's the nature of the beast; the way things are done when you've got a guy who's clearly #1 in the company.

That said, when Austin was the clear #1, the Rock was right there, creating his own bid for #1 when Austin abdicated his "throne," which wound up happening. I have no idea whether Rock made it his goal to be named #1.....in fact, I kind of doubt it since Vince McMahon no doubt recognized Rock's work and growing influence; I'm sure he rewarded Rock accordingly.

So yes, go on and look to "create" the new #1, regardless of what Cena is doing. I'm sure he's realistic enough to not be threatened by the prospect ......and while some folks on this forum call him selfish, I see him helping get over the very people who might one day take his mantle.

Or do you want to argue he hasn't been helping in the development of Seth Rollins as a star.....as he did for Bray Wyatt, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan......and plenty of others.

But this post isn't to praise Cena, it's to point out that yes, it's possible to build the next #1 while Cena is still the man. That's the point; they'll build the guy, but it's certainly possible he won't actually be thought of as #1 until Cena is good and ready to leave.

I think the immense popularity of the established guys amongst the mainstream is usually underestimated on the internet in general.
I just saw a poll on WWE.com asking fans to pick who they want to win the WWE title at Royal Rumble, and 80%+ of the votes were shared between Cena and Lesnar... which goes to show that Seth still has some ways to go to be considered alongside the other 2 amongst the casual fanbase who visit the official WWE site but not the dirt sheets, etc...


Similarly, whoever the WWE want to push, they will push and market them towards the same mainstream audience as much as they could and IF that guy gets acceptance from those fans, then and only then, will he be considered as the one to take over from Cena. At this point, there is still loads of time before that happens.

This year has been refreshing in terms of newer guys like Reigns, Rollins, Ambrose and Wyatt all being pushed towards becoming focuses of the WWE shows, and many may have realised that Cena and Orton whilst still ever-present for much of the year, have been allowed to lag behind at times as well, with the others allowed the spotlight. Hopefully, such pushes pay off, as it can only bode well for the future if all these up and comers can succeed.

 

[sanefan_har]

The issue with Cena and Orton is that they won their first major title far too early. Like an earlier post mentioned, Bret Hart won his first major title at 36. Hogan won his first title at the age of 31. Compare that to Orton winning at 24 and Cena winning it at 27, they peaked too early. As a result, they had to be involved in title feuds for the remaining portion of their career at a frequent basis. They feuded with each other too many times for the fans to stop caring about them. Cena's character was never tweaked, and Orton went from Heel to Face to Heel to Face. And here they are still in their mid-30s and ready to go. If their first title wins happened about 3 years ago, people wouldn't be tired of Cena and Orton on their TV screens.

Apart from this, I agree with the OP, but I also agree with Jack-Hammer and others who support that a newer face can be built while the current top dog is still around. I think Reigns will be the guy to fill the spot, but as long as Vinnie is scripting his promos(reportedly), we may not see that come to fruition.