Instigator of Heavy Metal?

[Goberz2K8]

We all know the three main bands that are, the so-called forefathers of Heavy Metal are: Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin.
Band list:

Original line-up
Black Sabbath:-
1. Vocals - Ozzy Osbourne
2. Guitar - Tony Iommi
3. Drums - Bill Ward
4. Bass - Gezzer Butler

Led Zeppelin:
1. Robert Plant
2. Guitar - Jimmy page
3. Bass - John Paul Jones
4. Drums - John Bonham

Deep Purple
1. Vocals - Rod Evans or some may consider Ian Gillan
2. Guitar - Ritchie Blackmore
3. Keyboards - Jon Lord
4. Bass - Roger Glover (Im not sure of the original bassist)
5. Drums - Ian Paice

(list above for reference)..

Now to the point. All Heavy Metal acts, and Heavy Metal fans would consider these the Big 3 the, instigators/forfathers of Heavy Metal. And in a way it, is true, even if these guys dont like to be labelled Heavy Metal. What I am asking, and what I feel is, I am going basically on sound, lyrics and so on. But out of the 3, Black Sabbath were the more "Heavy Metal" out of the 3, Dont you agree? The reason i say this, more than Purple and Zeppelin is listen to the lyrics and the riffs from Iommi, they have more Weight more Heavyness (lack of a better word) than the others, and Iommi is kinda of the father of the Heavy Metal Riff. Of course, Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin can be considered the Instirgators of Metal as well, and Ritchie Blackmore's Riffs and Virtuoso style also helps, of which, I consider Blackmore the better guitarist of the 3 (some people will disagree). But all in all, I think you can really, consider Black Sabbath the more Heavy metal/fathers of Heavy Metal who inspired later acts like Quiet Riot, W.A.S.P., Motely Crue, Dio,Van Halen, Motorhead, Metallica and so on.....Do you see what I am saying, based on their sound, lyrics and vocals and so on, Black Sabbath are, at the forefront of creating Heavy Metal out of the 3 of them,Dont you agree?

My order of who I can (personally) consider Metal:
1. Black Sabbath
2. Deep Purple
3. Led Zeppelin

What are your thoughts?

 

[Harthan]

I think you're looking too far ahead, into the mainstays of heavy metal when it was already developed. I think you have to go further back to declare an instigator of heavy metal. It's no doubt that Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, and Deep Purple are huge heavy metal bands, and huge innovators, but they really were part of its rise to greatness more than its exact origins.

I would say that the place to look for the start of heavy metal was the fusion of blues and psychedelic rock that was seen in the latter half of the sixties. You look at Cream, and you've got Clapton's and Bruce's riffs and the double bass drumming from Baker, and it was pushing the boundary of heavy metal. I wouldn't say Cream had broken all the way through yet, but Cream was probably one of the first bands to lay out the foundations. Fresh Cream and Disraeli Gears are huge foundation laying LPs.

When heavy metal really began is debatable, but it was definitely before the three you've set out. Sabbath, Zeppelin, and DP really hit the mainstream in 69/70, and heavy metal had already begun before them. I mean, arguably, Hendrix's "Purple Haze", released in '67, is the first real heavy metal song. There's a lot of dissent on whether it pushes into heavy metal, but I think it does. I would say that right there is the innovation of heavy metal, but it's debatable.

If you want to go a little further, into more clear pictures, then look no further than Blue Cheer's cover of Eddie Cochran's "Summertime Blues", released in '68. If you won't accept Purple Haze as the beginning, then you have to acknowledge Summertime Blues. The same month as Summertime Blues, Steppenwolf's "Born to Be Wild" released and is another original metal song. July of '68 saw the Yardbirds "Think About It", another origin piece, and probably the world's first metal album dropped with Iron Butterfly's In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida. The Beatles even contributed a lot via the power of distortion with "Revolution" (still in '68). Again in August of '68, the Jeff Beck Group dropped "Truth", which is yet again a huge metal album, all of this before Sabbath, Zeppelin, or DP had achieved any kind of success. It was in October '68 that Zeppelin made their live debut, but to be honest, their impact wasn't wholly felt until Led Zeppelin dropped in '69.

Black Sabbath and Deep Purple both made their impact in '70, with Sabbath's Black Sabbath and Paranoid, and DP's Deep Purple In Rock.

My point is, Zeppelin, Sabbath, and DP - they're huge innovators and helped to make the style mainstream. Led Zeppelin II hit #1 on the charts and basically started the rise of metal to becoming mainstream. They're all three huge, important, bands. But the origins of heavy metal lay several years behind them.

From the pool offered, it's absolutely no doubt Zeppelin. Led Zeppelin and Led Zeppelin II basically are responsible for making metal mainstream (I hit #10 on the charts, and II hit #1 - huge chart rankings for metal). Sabbath and Deep Purple have never gotten an album to #1, and Zeppelin did it back to back with II & III, hit #2 with IV, and then nailed four straight number ones with Houses of the Holy, Physical Graffiti, Presence, and In Through the Out Door. That's huge, and their huge success, coupled with some hugely innovative and fantastic recordings, make them easily the best in your pool of three. But none of them are the "instigators of heavy metal". The title of instigator belongs to names like Cream, Hendrix, Blue Cheer, Steppenwolf, the Yardbirds, Iron Butterfly, the Jeff Beck Group, and to some extent, the Beatles. Who's the #1 instigator out of there? I say Hendrix, but Blue Cheer and Cream have to be thought of very highly. The rest are all huge innovators of the style, but personally I say Hendrix, Cream, and Blue Cheer did the most.

Sabbath, Zeppelin, and DP - partly responsible for metal's mainstream success? Yes. Fantastic bands, all? Yes. But the original instigators of heavy metal, the forefathers? Not at all.

 

[Raw Power]

Clapton and Cream can't take credit - sure, they might have made some headway, but I'd definetly give the credit to the three bands the threadstarter listed, and probably Black Sabbath as they were probably the first band to bring every element, (including typical lyrical content etc.) together to be properly defined as heavy metal. It's the same as how although The Stooges had a massive impact on the development of punk, you can't properly call them a punk band.

 

[Harthan]

Clapton and Cream can't take credit - sure, they might have made some headway, but I'd definetly give the credit to the three bands the threadstarter listed, and probably Black Sabbath as they were probably the first band to bring every element, (including typical lyrical content etc.) together to be properly defined as heavy metal. It's the same as how although The Stooges had a massive impact on the development of punk, you can't properly call them a punk band.

Cream was huge in the "instigation" of heavy metal, which is the thread's question, after all. I mean, they weren't a full out metal band, no. But they pushed the boundary and laid the foundation.

Even putting Cream aside, what about Hendrix, Blue Cheer, Steppenwolf, Iron Butterfly, the Yardbirds, the Jeff Beck Group? These are all guys that dropped big metal hits, that were both successes financially and musically. Are You Experienced hit #5 on the US charts, Vincebus Eruptum went to #11 on the charts, Steppenwolf went to #6, and "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" went to #30 on the singles charts. "Purple Haze", "Summertime Blues", "Born to Be Wild", and "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" are all great recordings, in terms of pure good music and innovation. So you can set Cream aside - it doesn't change the fact that Hendrix, Blue Cheer, Steppenwolf, Iron Butterfly, etc, etc, had all instigated heavy metal before Zeppelin made it famous.

 

[Goberz2K8]

Cream was huge in the "instigation" of heavy metal, which is the thread's question, after all. I mean, they weren't a full out metal band, no. But they pushed the boundary and laid the foundation.

Even putting Cream aside, what about Hendrix, Blue Cheer, Steppenwolf, Iron Butterfly, the Yardbirds, the Jeff Beck Group? These are all guys that dropped big metal hits, that were both successes financially and musically. Are You Experienced hit #5 on the US charts, Vincebus Eruptum went to #11 on the charts, Steppenwolf went to #6, and "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" went to #30 on the singles charts. "Purple Haze", "Summertime Blues", "Born to Be Wild", and "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" are all great recordings, in terms of pure good music and innovation. So you can set Cream aside - it doesn't change the fact that Hendrix, Blue Cheer, Steppenwolf, Iron Butterfly, etc, etc, had all instigated heavy metal before Zeppelin made it famous.

I can understand and see where you are coming from. Yes Zeppelin made Metal more mainstream with their number 1 hits but then, Sabbaths sound, was more "Metal" than any of them. Although i do believe, that Zeppelin, aent the single greatest band ever, I think Purple and Sabbath are better, mainly due ... Ritchie Blackmore being better than Page for one...but their general sound.

 

[Raw Power]

I'd rank Deep Purple the lowest, with Zeppelin the highest tbh - I lvoe how they could do the whole "ballsy, straightfoward rock" vibe like AC/DC etc, but had enough subtlety, range and sheer qualtiy to prevent it from becoming boring pub rock like AC/DC - and also how they could have awesome, "metal" riffs without (in the whole) descending into prog wanekry like Deep Purple. I've recently come to appreciate Black Sabbath too, but that only really extends to when Ozzy left - anything after is not really of interest to me tbh.

 

[X]

Although i do believe, that Zeppelin, aent the single greatest band ever, I think Purple and Sabbath are better, mainly due ... Ritchie Blackmore being better than Page for one...but their general sound.

Are you still on about this Deep Purple bullshit? Deep Purple had like two good albums, and that was it. They're one of the most overrated fucking bands to ever exist, and that fact that you actually think Ritchie Blackmore is a better guitarist than Jimmy Page is absolutely laughable.

Please explain to me how Blackmore is superior to Page in any way, whatosever. I need a good laugh.

 

[Tastycles]

If people are talking Cream and Clapton, then you absolutely have to include the Beatles, as you do with just about all guitar music since they were popular.

[youtube]CzCjGgrewYY[/youtube]

It's much breezier than metal, granted, and it's not a heavy metal song, but the distortion on the guitars is certainly metal-esque, and I think I'm right in saying that this is the first song that had distortion like that.

As for making metal what it is, Black Sabbath certainly played a role, but they still aren't quite there, they're what the Ramones are to punk, essentially. There's too much soul in it to be true metal. The whole metal experience was galvanised and brought to the fore by Judas Priest, in my opinion, and they are the first true metal band.

 

[Goberz2K8]

Are you still on about this Deep Purple bullshit? Deep Purple had like two good albums, and that was it. They're one of the most overrated fucking bands to ever exist, and that fact that you actually think Ritchie Blackmore is a better guitarist than Jimmy Page is absolutely laughable.

Please explain to me how Blackmore is superior to Page in any way, whatosever. I need a good laugh.

Well firstly that is, my opinion, whther that is an actuall fact can be argued. As always, people have their own preference, like I dont like Metallica or say, The Beatles, but doesnt mean I dont respect them. I mean, both Blackmore and Page have great technical skill, and writing ability, better than most singer/sogwriter or guitarists nowadays. One of the reasons that Page is held in such a High regard is because of the name "Led Zeppelin", of course he has done some great stuff, with say Cocverdale/Page stuff.

Also, in my Opinion (Mine), that Blackmore is a better Songwriter, and al round, has worked with better musicians in total. I also notcie you are the one swearing and criticising Deep Purple, whereas I just showed my opinion. Also, I am not "Still on about this Deep purple Shit"!!

 

[TM Punk]

There are alot of people who also credit Steppenwolf for coining the term heavy metal in the song born to be wild one of the lyrics is "heavy metal thunder". This is about ten years before any of those bands. Not saying they invented it. Just something else to think about.