Innovative X?

[Y 2 Jake]

In what way is Ultimate X innovative? The basic principle is the same as a ladder match. Difference being, obviously, that there are cables, instead of the use of a ladder. Yet everybody talks about how innovative the concept is. Is it innovative if the basic concept is the same as another match? Hell In The Cell is a different version of a cage match, it creates good matces. But it's not the most innovative gimmick in history.

I'm not disputing that the gimmick has produced some of the best matches of the past 5 years. But I am going to say that ladder matches are better. It's so obvious. In Ultimate X the cables are almost statc. You can't move them. The only thing you can do is jump from them, do moves off them and fall off them. So In a couple of years the gimmcik will be finished. Not in TNA, they'll still use it. But each and every one will be almost the same. There is only so much you can do with it.

 

[Shocky]

Exactly the point I brought up in the TNA Legacy thread. Oh beware, the TNA fanboyz will be in here, and in here with a vengeance since you dare question the integrity of the Ultimate X match. Essentially, you hit the nail right on the head, it's not innovative, it's just a new way to make a ladder match, but with less creativity.

I have failed to see an Ultimate X match that I have enjoyed more then a Ladder match. I think that with the stationary cables, it completely limits what can and can't be done in that ring. A ladder is at least movable and something new can be done with it.

I'm sure this thread will just be met with blind retaliation, but that's how I feel. There have been good matches in the Ultimate X, but nothing as good as what people will tell you. Hell, the only thing memorable about these matches is the X falling down during the middle of the match.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Is the Ultimate X innovative? Well, it's new, it's different, but to be innovative it really has to be an improvement on something. So the basic premise is it's a ladder match for cruiserweights. In that sense, I would say it is innovative, as I never thought that cruiserweights were any good in ladder matches, despite them really being more suited to it than bigger guys. So yeah, it's an improvement, it's a change, it's something new, and so I'd say it's innovative.

Now as for a ladder being used in more ways than the X, well, that doesn't really matter to me. Outside of the yearly spotfest that is the MITB, there really isn;t anywhere you can go with the ladder match anymore. I mean, guys like John Morrison and Shelton Benjamin are just thrown in to do stuff which nobody else can do.

As for how good the Ultimate X is; it's usually just added to add some sick high spots to what would normally be a great match anyway, so as long as there's new ways to put a match together, every Ultimate X match will be different.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

There are still plenty of places you can go with a ladder match Sam. You can get them in all shapes and sizes. You can move them, you can use as many as you wish. You can use them as a metal tag team partner and so on. Pretty much it's possible to do almost anything with a ladder in a match. But the best pump in Ultimate X was done by A.J. Styles in one of the earlier ones. Ever since then each bump from it has been less impressive. Chris Danilels did the most impressive jump to get the titles. It might be done again, but it's the first time that you remember. The only possibility for each to be improved upon is if a fat ass did it. But having see T3D & Joe in one, I doubt that will happen.

 

[klunderbunker]

The problem is that in wrestling there's very little that hasn't been done at one time or another. Ladder matches had been done before Razor and Shawn, as had the iron man match, the cage match, and just about everything else had been done before it had become famous on ppv or cable. Wreslting has been around for a long time and a lot of people have had idea after idea about it. That's what TNA is suffering from. The Ultimate X, KOTM, Xscape match, and whatever they call their scaffold match are just twists on things that have already been done in the past. Technically it's innovative, but at the same time it's all been done before. At least tehy were able to think of something sort of original.

 

[finoj05]

By that logic, nothing WWE, TNA, WCW or ECW has come up with has been completely original.

Hell in the Cell is just a bigger cage, War Games is just two cages etc.

Answer this, are Ultimate X matches different from Ladder matches?

is KOTM different from money in the bank?

is Gaunlet for the Gold different than the Royal Rumble?

The short answer to all of these is yes. You can say "Well... they are pretty much..." NO, they are NOT the same. They produce different matches. Yes, they derive from the same concept. It does not make it unoriginal. If we start calling all the matches today unoriginal, than what is Original? Dueces Wild? Fight for your Right? Pole Matches?

Seriously, the simple concepts have been done. The best new gimmicks are just slight changes and added stipulations to those concepts.

The concept does not need to be innovative, but the matches they produce do. As similar as shit is, they produce a different product. That is innovative enough from me. If you expect something unworldly that suddenly crackles the fabric of a century of professional wrestling you sadly are mistaking.

 

[gg inferno]

it really was no stroke of genius to come up with ultimate x. we're sitting in booking one day and it's thrown out there to come up with something different. my immediate thought was to take a video game concept to add to a match. i just had the visual picture of the splinter cell guy repelling on a cable, i threw it out there, and it was easy to come up with the concept. the whole idea was that this would add a new dimension to a tna video game if ever came out, which it will in september. alot of you might not like the gimmick matches, but if you look at the money in the video game industry, and putting new wrestling video games out there with new concepts, your mind would open up more to why certain things are done.

 

[THE Madcap]

it really was no stroke of genius to come up with ultimate x. we're sitting in booking one day and it's thrown out there to come up with something different. my immediate thought was to take a video game concept to add to a match. i just had the visual picture of the splinter cell guy repelling on a cable, i threw it out there, and it was easy to come up with the concept. the whole idea was that this would add a new dimension to a tna video game if ever came out, which it will in september. alot of you might not like the gimmick matches, but if you look at the money in the video game industry, and putting new wrestling video games out there with new concepts, your mind would open up more to why certain things are done.

Are you serious glen?! I was going to praise you for coming up with the idea, but you're now telling us that you thought of it because it would sell video games?! Yes the video game industry is huge, but I'm not even remotely bothered about the Ultimate X feature on the TNA game, I'm getting it for the roster and an alternative to SD v RAW. It grows pretty tiresome having to make guys like AJ and Angle on SD v RAW create-a-wresler, with the limited movesets and crap themes to chose from etc.

 

[shaunbaby]

well saying the ultimate X is not innovative is silly, yes i grant you it my be a ladder match with the ladder replaced by ropes, but would we have the elimination chamber without the luberjack match?

You may say what the hell has a lumberjack match got to do with a chamber, well the lumberjack match is a spin off from the singles match, the lumberjacks are to keep the competitors in the ring, that match was built on, with the cage match replace the lumberjacks with a cage, yes there may be diffeerent rules to win but many have been by pinfall, but without the cage there would be no hell in the cell, after having about 15 or so, but after the gimmick started wearing off, up pops the elimination chamber, this came about some time after the 8 man hell in the cell.

the point im getting at is every match type was taken from another, so it may be a match weve seen before with different rules, but its still innovative.

 

[Afro-Ameri-Spawn]

btw, can someone tell me how to put specific lines in posts in quotes? all i know how to do is hit the quote button and the whole post comes up in the reply.

You click the button that says "quote" button in the bottom corner of the post.




But anywho, by the same concept that alot of you are talking about for the Ultimate X, the same thing can be applied to the ladder match when you look at it. I mean we have all seen people fall from ladders. We have also seen people fall through tables. We have also seen the ladder used as a weapon. So what's next? More tables? Hit more people? It's pretty much been all done as a ladder match is one dimensional as well. Whether it's moveable or not, only so much can be done with a match period.

You can change the shape, the height, or the items used, and these matches are still exactly the same. An Iron man match is an iron man match, whether it be an hour, a half hour, or ten minutes. A ladder match is a ladder match whether it be TLC standard, or MITB. And Ultimate X is Ultimate X whether it be with cables, mini scaffolds, or bubble gum . Plain and simple. And even in that, they all have the same concept of a winner and a loser.

I actually am moved to agree with Gilbert here (yuck) when he says that the concept seems to be more for video game marketing than to revolutionize the wrestling industry. It's not meant to be the next great thing since sliced bread. It's just meant to be a new twist to an old concept. The same old same old, for the next generation. Plain and simple.

 

[FromTheSouth]

I never thought about Ultimate X being a different kind of ladder match. To me it looks like part of Ninja Warrior. You wrestle a match then pull a hand over hand clothesline kind of movement to grab something. Go get Wolf to shoot tennis balls from a cannon and you could encompass three shows at once. Actually, I like the match. There have been some interesting matches, and they've all entertained me.

I don't like that it was created to sell a video game. If the game is done right, it would add viewers to the show. My friends played SD! vs. Raw with me, and then started watching wrestling.

 

[Monkey_Mania]

I like the idea of Ultimate X. It's an alternative to everyday gimmick matches like cage, ladder, ironman so on and so forth. But is it innovative. No. Like Glenn said it wasn't that hard to come up with. Myself I would rather just see a regular old ladder match. There are so many more things you can do with them.

Like it was said before. Everything has pretty much been done in the wrestling business. So its extremely hard to come up with something new. They just take an idea and put a twist on it. The only reason it is called "Innovative" is to draw in viewers and marketing purposes.